Joe B (The Athletic) on passing game problems (with data)

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

There's other articles that literally say Josh Allen watched film with the coaches while talking perspective prospects 

 

He certainly saw lad McConkey Xavier worthy and all of them

 

Maybe a trade up wasn't possible.. not everybody wants to trade with you

No one is denying Allen's involvement in picking a WR.  That's a given. What some of us dispute is the notion that Allen worked hard to get Coleman picked over other options.  The argument that we needed someone like Coleman was sound and I'm sure Bean & Allen talked about the need for a big bodied boundary receiver who could turn 50/50 catches into 80/20 ones.  

 

My disagreement is with the idea that Allen exerted pressure on the Bills scouting staff and GM to take a guy that they didn't really want and they drafted Coleman to keep Allen happy. IMO the evidence is that Bean & Co. selected the guy that they believed best fit their need within the framework of the draft capital they were willing to part with.  Allen was asked to sign off and he did.

 

As an aside, I'm not ready to write Coleman off yet.  I've seen enough flashes over the last 20 games to believe that he might still develop into the high end WR they thought they drafted.  I have this feeling that Coleman's story is not done yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Avisan said:

If fan polls on TBD ever influence how a OBD employee seriously feels about their job performance, that person needs to be fired immediately 

It’s a barometer on Bills Mafia’s opinion of Joe Brady.  Terry Pegula knows the Bills play for Bills Mafia.
 

McD is not happy about our one dimensional offense.  I’m sure Terry isn’t happy with Bills passing game. 
 

So Brady can hide his head under the bed, but the pressure is mounting

[RoyBatty is alive]

17 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

I'll be at the game.  Despite my somewhat hyperbolic post, I think it’s right in line with what almost everyone is seeing and thinking.   I dont expect them to beat the Chiefs.   I hope they do, but hope isnt a plan. 

All valid points.

 

i know ed oliver is s bummer but  look at the positives.

 

1) well rested bills team after an easy game post bye week.

2) home feild

3) kc on a short week, see how many injuries they get tonight it how they perform,

 

Right now i know bills are a slight underdog but i call this game a toss up.  4 weeks ago thr bills were the best team in the afc and Chiefs domination was over.

Edited 14 hours ago by RoyBatty is alive

[Mat68]

Palmer was obviously a big part of the Atlanta game plan.  Him going down made them very thin at wr.  Allen willing to throw the ball consistently under center on early downs will do wonders for the passing  attack and down the field passes.  Gotta be able to rip seems and crossers off outside zone and duo.  Rumblings of Allen prefers to pass out of shotgun points to the disconnected passing and running attack.  To generate the down field passes early down PA is the answer.  Cook is too good right now not to merry it.  The shotgun nothing fake is fine without a traditional run game.  Buffalo has one and the team has to lean into it.  
 

BTW Cook had the most rushing yards in about 50 years for Buffalo.  More than Thurman Thomas, Willis Mcgahee, Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson, and Lesean McCoy.  Jonathan Taylor is running away with OPY.  Cook is averaging more yards a game and more yards per carry.  This is an elite run game.  The passing game needs to fit in where it can get in at the moment.  I dont understand why some want to move away from it because it’s not as flashy? 

[Cash]

On 10/27/2025 at 10:30 AM, Shaw66 said:

Haven't read all the comments, but it seems that the gist of them is the Bills need some better receivers.  I'd like the Bills to have better receivers, too, but I'm not sure that's the problem. 

 

I'd suggest that Joe Brady and perhaps Sean McDermott are the problems. And I think there are some pretty simple statistics that demonstrate why:

 

In 4+ years in the league, playing on two lousy teams with lousy quarterbacks, Elijah Moore averaged 52 receptions for over 500 yards and 2 TDs over 17 games.  He is way below that average with the Bills and a HOF quarterback. He's on pace for 15 receptions and 200 yards. 

 

In his years in the league, playing his first seven on two lousy teams and with lousy quarterbacks, Curtis Samuel averaged 55 receptions for  over 500 yards and four TDs over 17 games. He is way below that average with the Bills and a HOF quarterback. He's on pace for 10 receptions and 100 yards. 

 

Somehow, coaches for the Jets and the Browns and the Panthers and Washingtons knew how to get the ball to these guys 600 yards per season, even though they didn't have Josh Allen throwing and they didn't have James Cook putting up 150 yards rushing. 

 

Neither one of those guys is world-beater, but the production for both of them declined significantly as soon as they arrived in Buffalo and began playing for Brady and McDermott. 

 

  

This is a good take. Especially since Moore has been more effective as an outside WR than in the slot in the NFL. You could include Palmer in this analysis as well, although with the caveat that he was on mediocre teams with a good QB. Still, his per-game numbers are abysmal so far, after being reliably a 700ish yard guy on his rookie deal. 
 

To whom it may concern: I agree that too often, no one’s getting open. (Saw some of it in person this past week - every time I looked downfield during a scramble drill, there was nothing there.) I also agree that having better outside talent (Olave or whomever) would help. But I haven’t seen any plausible explanation of why these 600-700 yard WRs are turning into 200-300 yard WRs on the 2025 Bills.

[Ayjent]

It's both a talent and scheme issue IMO.  What I'm seeing is more of a scheme issue than talent issue, and what I mean by that is not that we couldn't use some upgrades in that department, but that the scheme isn't putting the players in position to utilize what talent they have.  E.g., Elijah Moore can't catch a WR screen so don't keep on putting him in that position.  I believe he has 2-3 drops on those already this year.  Steve Smith has repeatedly said that Coleman should be a slot guy and I agree with that assessment.  The problem - they have slot guys all over the place (Shakir, Moore, Samuel).  And If they use him outside they'd be better off utilizing what he appears have improved greatly on comeback routes, but they need some one to draw coverage deep and Coleman isn't that guy.   

 

The problem I see is that they have play designs that if sniffed out are not giving many other options and I think that is Brady's philosophy - we have a primary and everyone else is running routes to clear it rather than being more multiple and guys aren't expecting to win their routes, they are expecting to move the defense for their teammate.  I don't think that is all the time, but I think there are enough plays that is the case to seem like the passing game is not working as well as it should be. 

 

Finally, utilize the backs in the passing game.  In all fairness I saw Josh miss Ty Johnson wide open but it didn't look like it was his primary read.  We have good pass catching backs, that's a real missing piece of the offense and something that they utilized way better last year.    

[Sgt. Ski]

On 10/27/2025 at 8:17 AM, Pete said:

Obvious we need a WR and intermediate passes to everyone but the Bills office and coordinator.  Keep the data coming, maybe it will open up some closed minds.

12 completions 3.92 yards average depth  🤮 

 

you are assuming that the receivers aren't open because Josh didn't throw the ball. has anyone really looked at josh, and how many times he pumps the ball? i don't mean a pump fake. i really think he is gun shy! And.. I can't think why Gabe Davis is not on the field. My wife has had her knees scoped a few times, and it doesn't take that long to heal! At the very least, he knows josh and can get open when he scrambles.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Cash said:

every time I looked downfield during a scramble drill, there was nothing there

 

The scramble drills this year have been so frustrating. Diggs/Brown/Beasley as a group was elite in that scenario. Allen getting free and running to the right sideline was an automatic big play. Now when he does it his receivers look utterly helpless at working open for him, or they fail to make a pretty routine sideline catch.

 

I know fans get frustrated that Allen bails clean pockets but he's always done that and we're only complaining about it now because his pass catchers aren't making those plays for him. I watched the Chiefs game last night and Mahomes was constantly bailing the pocket. But almost every time he had someone working open for him. Kelce, Rice, one of the RBs, you name it. When you have a unicorn at QB that's something you should practice, it should be an ingrained part of your offensive structure, but instead it's been mostly wasted plays for us.

[GoBills808]

19 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No one is denying Allen's involvement in picking a WR.  That's a given. What some of us dispute is the notion that Allen worked hard to get Coleman picked over other options.  The argument that we needed someone like Coleman was sound and I'm sure Bean & Allen talked about the need for a big bodied boundary receiver who could turn 50/50 catches into 80/20 ones.  

 

My disagreement is with the idea that Allen exerted pressure on the Bills scouting staff and GM to take a guy that they didn't really want and they drafted Coleman to keep Allen happy. IMO the evidence is that Bean & Co. selected the guy that they believed best fit their need within the framework of the draft capital they were willing to part with.  Allen was asked to sign off and he did.

 

As an aside, I'm not ready to write Coleman off yet.  I've seen enough flashes over the last 20 games to believe that he might still develop into the high end WR they thought they drafted.  I have this feeling that Coleman's story is not done yet.

 

 

 

 

 

i am 100% denying it 

[turbo044]

On 10/27/2025 at 9:19 AM, Sweats said:

Our FO are the smartest ones in the room, and they say we don't need a quality WR........Beane even challenges anyone who says otherwise

Plus he drafts a coleman type who couldn't get open in college over a McConkey type who can't be covered in the NFL

[Rigotz]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i am 100% denying it 

 

An interesting take, because you are 100% wrong!

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/josh-allen-pumped-bills-took-keon-coleman-qb-texted-wr-before-draft-youre-the-guy-that-i-want/

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Rigotz said:

 

An interesting take, because you are 100% wrong!

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/josh-allen-pumped-bills-took-keon-coleman-qb-texted-wr-before-draft-youre-the-guy-that-i-want/

look

 

imagine you're beane and the bills. you need to sell the fanbase (not to mention the player) on trading back twice for a wideout that he was actually the guy you wanted all along

 

does that put the texting story into context for you

 

[oldmanfan]

The one single thing I want to see again is the 4 + 1 formations we saw last year.  They were very effective.  Maybe I’m going blind but I’m not see much of it this year.

Just now, GoBills808 said:

look

 

imagine you're beane and the bills. you need to sell the fanbase (not to mention the player) on trading back twice for a wideout that he was actually the guy you wanted all along

 

does that put the texting story into context for you

 

It’s easy to rebut things when your argument is anything you read is a lie.

[BananaB]

43 minutes ago, turbo044 said:

Plus he drafts a coleman type who couldn't get open in college over a McConkey type who can't be covered in the NFL

Have we all forgot about Sherfield and Harty being higher on the depth chart than Shakir for half a season. Beane just don’t know WRs as good as thinks he does. 
 

What is worrisome is both McD and Beane said they were disappointed with Coleman to end the season last year but really never had an insurance plan going into this year. Kind of like when Gabe got boosted to the 2 spot (which he deserved) but was disappointing, Beane blamed it on injury and doubled down on Gabe the following season. 

Edited 8 hours ago by BananaB

[Allen2Moulds]

18 minutes ago, turbo044 said:

Plus he drafts a coleman type who couldn't get open in college over a McConkey type who can't be covered in the NFL

I hated the Coleman pick for that exact reason, and feel that it was on over-reaction by the Bills.  Diggs, while elite always struggled against KC in the playoffs, and it wasn't necessarily because he was always double teamed.  The Playoffs are a more physical brand of football, where DB's are allowed to be more grabby, which really hurt Diggs, as he is not a physical style player.  

Solely my opinion here, but I believe that's why they forced the issue to try and draft a bigger body type like Coleman.  Unfortunately, you still need to be able to separate.  If I remember correctly, Coleman got a big fat zero in that playoff game. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

The one single thing I want to see again is the 4 + 1 formations we saw last year.  They were very effective.  Maybe I’m going blind but I’m not see much of it this year.

It’s easy to rebut things when your argument is anything you read is a lie.

its easy to believe things when you dont think critically

[HappyDays]

If Erik is correct here (and he does have locker room connections) this is another example of a play not working because of a dumb mental error by a player. If it's a one off you blame the player, when it's a consistent problem you blame the coach. Brady needs to get his guys on the same page. WRs lining up incorrectly, OL letting inside free rushers go by them untouched, Allen and his receivers thinking different play calls. They have to get this stuff straight.

[appoo]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

If Erik is correct here (and he does have locker room connections) this is another example of a play not working because of a dumb mental error by a player. If it's a one off you blame the player, when it's a consistent problem you blame the coach. Brady needs to get his guys on the same page. WRs lining up incorrectly, OL letting inside free rushers go by them untouched, Allen and his receivers thinking different play calls. They have to get this stuff straight.

As I've sat with this, I really don't have much blame for Brady, and if anything I actually have MORE respect for the man. He's doing a good job with a very limited deck of cards in terms of weaponry

[Comebackkid]

Just now, appoo said:

As I've sat with this, I really don't have much blame for Brady, and if anything I actually have MORE respect for the man. He's doing a good job with a very limited deck of cards in terms of weaponry

Brady is responsible for the players on O.   I still put just as much on him.

[appoo]

3 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

Brady is responsible for the players on O.   I still put just as much on him.

Can you add some context to this please?