NOW is Bobby Babich's seat hot?

[RoyBatty is alive]

23 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

League rank of 31st , 25th and 30th against run yards, rushing touchdowns and yards per rush attempt are glaring issues that we are winning despite of.  

If the team could improve on those issues we would be a dynasty.  

Equally troubling is that these issues are nothing new......

Good God, 4 games starting with a blowout by Trvis Henry, obviously it is going to skew all the run defensive stats which is all you quote.  Why did you selectively exclude any staets versus the pass or the most important stat, wins/losses?

[zow2]

They're 4-0 and in good shape, I'd be surprised if they fire Babich or anyone really, unless something extraordinary happens like NE racking up 450 yards of offense. F

[Yobogoya!]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not my job to say, and it's the weakest cop out response to coaching change discussions if that's where you are going.

 

Just like NO ONE here was mentioning Sean McDermott's name in January 2017.

 

Depends on what HCs get fired and who is available. But it definitely shouldnt be an internal hire.

 

If the Browns blow it up this year, I'd 100% be all for giving Schwartz another go-round here. 

 

Hell, if Josh gets Brady a HC job this off season I'd be down for bringing in Stefanski as well, lol. 

[Einstein]

47 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

You're confusing @Einstein and @Einstein's Dog

I apologize for my dog.

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There was one person......

 

We had one of those. He is now Assistant Head Coach in Seattle. 

 

Haha I thought of you and at least one other when I typed that. Should have said "no normal person" 

 

And yes, Frazier was in the right mold, but the problem was he was running McD's scheme. Need someone like him but with a new scheme.

Edited Wednesday at 04:12 PM by DrDawkinstein

[Einstein's Dog]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is all fair but to add that the confusion pre-snap and the 3rd down struggled are largely on Babich. Because they have not been issues prior to him being the DC. It is completely fair to put poor run defense and inconsistent pass rush on McDermott and to a lesser extent Beane, because those have been repeated problems across multiple DCs over many years and they haven't solved them either with scheme or player acquisition. It's also fair, of course, to say McDermott hired Babich and so is accountable for that. What it is not fair to say though is firing Babich would just be scapegoating. There are problems on this defense of his making. Wanting them to keep him to "punish" the HC for hiring him in the first place is an odd way of some fans (not saying you) thinking. 

I don't see how it's fair to say the number 1 problem is stopping the run.  Who cares?  That in itself means very little.  And the poor stat is misleading IMO, it contains a lot of QB runs and the D Henry outlier.  Look at the stats of B Hall, Kamara, or Achane - all below their averages.

 

And it is not traditional running that has anything to do with getting the D off the field in those third and long situations. 

 

And just to be clear, there is no hot seat for Babich. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Haha I thought of you and at least one other when I typed that. Should have said "no normal person" 

 

And yes, Frazier was in the right mold, but the problem was he was running McD's scheme. Need someone like him but with a new scheme.

 

McDermott ran the defense quite differently in 2023 from Frazier though. There was plenty of Frazier's own influence in how he ran it. Each of the three DCs we have had (McD included) has run the defense quite differently even if the fundamentals of their scheme are broadly consistent. 

 

I am on record as not thinking the fundamental scheme is the issue. I know I am in the minority on that, but fine. 

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't see how it's fair to say the number 1 problem is stopping the run.  Who cares?  That in itself means very little.  And the poor stat is misleading IMO, it contains a lot of QB runs and the D Henry outlier.  Look at the stats of B Hall, Kamara, or Achane - all below their averages.

 

And it is not traditional running that has anything to do with getting the D off the field in those third and long situations. 

 

And just to be clear, there is no hot seat for Babich. 

 

 

 

True, I more meant about where he was apportioning the responsibility. 

[mbs]

5 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

The problem I see with what you say above, and why I basically wrote the OP, is that this is how they looked last year, undisciplined, out of place, missing tackles--and then, it is the same this year.  Where is the progression? There seems to be regression instead. Unacceptable, I think, for McDermottt and Beane.  We will see.

 

If there is not progress, and we see the same things over and over, game after game, pretty consistently, over last year, and then in the first 1/4 of this year it looks the same, with the same awful stats, overall, and same look and feel, it does not relate almost at all to a few missed players. It doesn't make sense, add up.

 

Instead, it appears to be how they are being prepared during the week, the game plan, and game call--the coach things.

 

Look at Dorsey-- there were fundamental problems, and things did not improve, looked the same--even in the pre season I was sounding the alarm, as the starters looked wildly unprepared in their first game.

 

That summer, and on here, I began to again hit on that as a huge red flag that this offense was not being led correctly, in fact incompetently--dorsey did not know what he was doing, and seemingly did not work hard in the off season to learn what he needed to know.  He made a fool of himself, undermining one of the best offenses in the game more and more with each passing week.

 

And we saw the results then that next season, just as I had predicted.  It wasn't rocket science to add up the actual regression of the offense the previous year, what we saw that summer, and then the shocking start of the season when our high powered offense looked like a shell of itself, inept, confused, bewildered--even seen on the face and body language of Allen--and come to the conclusion they were being coached extremely poorly.

 

Yes, some different details and circumstances with the defense last year and this, but it looks like two very similar situations--a team unprepared, where players and the units are not playing close to their potential.

 

This week things will likely look different, as McD is PLANTING himself in the defensive meetings and practices, trusting Brady and Tabor.

 

But this is not sustainable. I think McDermott knows this now, knows what good defense looks like and how to prepare players, sees the fundamental problems I am pointing to here and many more, as he is there up close, daily--and so will soon take the reigns completely.

 

 

 

The approach as we have heard countless times is to make them move down the field first down by first down and wait until they bobble a pass, fumble the ball, or throw to a safety.

 

In the past three games they gave up no big plays and waited for the opponent to bobble a pass, fumble the ball, or throw to a safety. That's mission accomplished.

 

How you can look at the past three games and to an extent the Ravens game as well, and think they are not accomplishing what they set out to do is beyond me.

 

Holding even a bad team to under 300 is not a bad performance. Holding a bad QB to a career low in passing is not a bad performance. Being #1 (2?) in passing yards allowed is not a bad performance. The strategy they have chosen is painful to watch, but the results speak for themselves. If the approach was more balanced we would be arguing over how great the defense looked except for Tre getting burned by Waddle/Wilson/Olive for 65 yards and a TD. Still would have a been okay, but Achane broke past the edge on that one play and ran free like Henry. "Just a couple of plays, man, just a couple a plays away ."

 

And this is not to excuse having whiffed tackles and confused linebackers. I am not pretending there isn't a lot of a ton of room for improvement. But even if we were stuck with the defensive roster we have now, I feel a lot better about it than I did when Benford went down in KC and a broken old man in Rasul Douglas was on the other side, same Williams at LB and a very green Bishop at safety and here we are expecting to get much better talent in short order.

 

The bigger problem is talent (which is partly coaching, sure.) If you get average tackling last week, this run defense would be average and the pass defense elite. So, while the players are struggling, the defensive coaching is delivering exactly what they promised and I hate it too, but 4-0.

 

Edit to add that I didn't address your main claim. Too focused on my own. I will though in another post.

Edited Wednesday at 05:30 PM by mbs
Failed to read completely

[DrDawkinstein]

26 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

If the Browns blow it up this year, I'd 100% be all for giving Schwartz another go-round here. 

 

Hell, if Josh gets Brady a HC job this off season I'd be down for bringing in Stefanski as well, lol. 

 

I'd be more in favor of making Brady Head Coach to keep the offensive consistency and production and bringing in Schwartz who has enough experience to run his side of the ball without needing much from a HC. In fact, Schwartz seems like the type who doesnt want to hear much from the HC as it is.

 

Seeing how he has that defense playing right now, this is a great combo, imo.

14 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't see how it's fair to say the number 1 problem is stopping the run.  Who cares?  That in itself means very little.  And the poor stat is misleading IMO, it contains a lot of QB runs and the D Henry outlier.  Look at the stats of B Hall, Kamara, or Achane - all below their averages.

 

And it is not traditional running that has anything to do with getting the D off the field in those third and long situations. 

 

And just to be clear, there is no hot seat for Babich. 

 

 

 

The NFL is all about cycling through evolutions changes and re-evolutions. Currently, the "running game" is making a comeback. Both the Bills and Eagles, the only 2 undefeated teams, are running the ball a ton and not throwing much.

 

Stopping the run in 2025 is CRUCIAL to having a successful year. This isnt the 2021 NFL.

[TheBrownBear]

10 pages in 24 hours. Kudos to OP. This is top level engagement farming.

 

And no. Babich isn't on any hot seat after holding all of our opponents to sub-300 yards the past three weeks.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

I’ll be concerned if the D doesn’t improve after the bye when we have our dinged up starters and PED boys back. What I’m seeing now is 2 rookies on the D-line, confusion in the back 7, and horrific tackling. All of that is correctable.

 

Babitch isn’t going anywhere this season. At worst, McD will take over the play calling but never admit it.

 

 

 

When Milano, Oliver and Hoecht come back the front 7 will be improved and I'm hoping their attitude will be high flying.

The back end needs improvement and some leadership on the field.  

Bishop is improving and that pick might give him (and his partners) some can do attitude.

[Sargent Hulka]

On 9/30/2025 at 12:21 PM, DJB said:

Every year it’s always the new D coordinators fault. 
 

Interesting . 

That's right, and every year they can't win the big one.

[JP51]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

My least favorite Babich tendency is a blitz combined with soft coverage on the back end. Talk about giving the QB an easy answer. What is even the point of blitzing if you're going to make it easy for them to get the ball out quick? Babich frequently talks about how the pass rush and the coverage have to be married together. Take a look in the mirror man, that's your responsibility.

This is exactly what I am saying... its like playing in no mans land... go after them or dont... especially younger QBs... 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

while I totally agree with the assessment of where we are now the people who keep saying "the defense has never been good" and "it's the same every year" really do have short memories. Leslie Frazier had three top 3 ranked defenses and one other top 10 defense in six seasons here. They are consistently top 10 in the league in takeaways (ever season of McDermott) and under Frazier they were top ten on 3rd down 5 out of 6 years too. Sure, the defense never dominated in the playoffs, that is undeniable. But the Bills had a number of really good defenses under Leslie and I think fans have simply forgotten how good we had it. The current defense is a mess. 

 

We are already blitzing way more than normal. After week 3 we were second in the league for blitz %. It doesn't look pretty. We should be blitzing way less. 

Top 3 defenses don't give up 2 huge plays in 10 seconds. I'd rather have a defense that can stop teams on 3rd down then have to rely on a desperation late game turnover to "save the day". Of course we're going to have a top 10 defense when we play Mia, NYJ, NE 6 times a year. I better shut up. I've already said too much. I might be accused of crusading.

[folz]

18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So far 17th in points given up but 31st (almost 32nd) in run defense is a complete embarrassment. I've never seen a teams fan base make more excuses to where we're at.  Injuries, suspensions, rookies, etc....We've never had a dominating defense in the McD era. We've never had a game wrecker in his tenure. I blame Sean and Brandon for not doing a better job of finding defensive talent.  Come playoff time, Josh will have to do what he's always had to do.  Outscore your opponent.....

 

No question the team needs to work on the run defense, but I think the Baltimore game kind of skews the team stats at the moment (with both points and Henry's run total). They will balance out as we go.

 

But how bad has the Bills defense been of late?

 

We held our last 3 opponents to an average of 16.6 points. League scoring average is 22.

 

We held our last 3 opponents to 298, 276, and 154 yards of total offense. The league average for yards per game is 339.8.

 

We created 4 turnovers in the last 3 games (we also created 4 more fumbles, but which the fumbling team recovered).

 

We had 7 sacks over the last 3 games.

 

In the last 3 games, we held our opponents to an average of 7.66 points in the 2nd half of those games. 

 

Lots of new players, two new coaches, Oliver and Milano coming back, Hoect, Ogunjobi, and Hairston still in the wings. This defense has not been bad the last few weeks and will only get better as we move forward. But again, still need to work on that run defense (hopefully Oliver, Hoect, and Ogunjobi can help in the category, eventually).

[Einstein's Dog]

23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The NFL is all about cycling through evolutions changes and re-evolutions. Currently, the "running game" is making a comeback. Both the Bills and Eagles, the only 2 undefeated teams, are running the ball a ton and not throwing much.

 

Stopping the run in 2025 is CRUCIAL to having a successful year. This isnt the 2021 NFL.

And concerning stopping the traditional run game, since the first game all of B Hall, Achane, and Kamara all had sub-average games.

 

And no, improving the run defense is not nearly as important as getting the third down efficiency improved.

[JP51]

Shout out to @Mr .Defense who started this thread lol... you have been involved heavily, you could just sat back and watched the fireworks with a beer and laughed LOL... nicely done! Great conversation ! 

[Success]

Remember when we had Schwarz?

 

THAT was a defense.

 

 

[JP51]

Just now, Success said:

Remember when we had Schwarz?

 

THAT was a defense.

 

 

Yes and Petine before him...  or after... oh I cant remember.. 

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

Ok I love these points... so I think our number 1 problem is we are last in the league at stopping the run... 2 is we are poor at getting to the QB....   and for that I also blame Beane and McD... .

 

Missed assignments and tackles, poor pursuit Babich needs to be involve in the blame here... 100% 

 

I like your call on the nickle dime....  this is getting to part of the crux of my concern ....  we have very small lbs who are blocked too easily and rarely shed them in pursuit, this is a McDermott staple, likely imo to beat KC... back off on the rush, be able to spy Mahomes and contain him... make them drive down the field and hope to hold them to a field goal... is this Babiches fault no... is the execution Babiches fault partially its partially on the personnel...  From my perspective, I worry less about getting beat with the big play, more about using the speed of the LBs and guys like Oliver etc.. to shoot gaps and blow up plays... SO yes, better conceived blitzes and run blitzes...  less ultimately bend dont break...  reasoning, you have Josh, he is gonna score, you can afford to take more chances here... this means a new overall philosophy with respect to risk tolerance... I do not believe it is Babich to drive that change I think he is executing McD's philosophy...  a solution is to get a defensive mind in here to reimagine what this defense looks like and to take advantage of the skill sets they have... 

 

Bottom line,  the under performance of this defense to your point starts at Beane with the talent level, moves to McD with the over all philosophy, and ends at Babich in terms of the execution and lack of development of existing players...  

 

I say all this and it sound like I am saying everything is wrong... etc...  I am not... I am looking SB and saying we are pretty much in the same defensive space that we have been in... that has not worked out well for us... we need to manage improvement .... how or what might that look like. 

 

Good points - we're not far apart.  

Every game, I text a friend of mine something to the effect of "Our D sucks!!!"  Then on Monday, I look at some numbers.  Our yards allowed is above average.  Points allowed is average.  Our record is 4-0.  

 

So "sucks" might be a strong descriptor.  But a team with SB aspirations ought to field a Top Five defense and we certainly aren't doing that.  And like you, I think Beane, McD, and Babich all share some blame.  

Certainly getting back the walking wounded and suspended will help.  But I don't know if that's enough to get us to the promised land.