ChronicAndKnuckles Posted Wednesday at 07:36 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:36 PM (edited) Honestly, I think the Bills need to implement an entirely different defensive philosophy, but that will never happen with McDermottt here. Like everyone else, he has his pros & cons. Great leadership, loved by Josh/players, USUALLY well prepared, gets maximum out of DBs, built solid trenches on both sides, and great at making half time adjustments. Cons are his defense is small & injury prone, refuses to stray from defensive philosophy, tendency to start mediocre vets over talented rookies, and horrible clock management (maybe the worst I’ve ever seen.) I hate to say it to the McDermott/Beane haters but they are here unless they have multiple losing seasons in a row. If Josh wants him here then that is all that matters. Bills fans have to live & die and die with this defense. I hate certain aspects of it, but I still support it. But he changed the entire culture here and I love him for it. But know this. IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE. Don’t think just because u have a franchise QB that it’s the only reason Buffalo is successful. I posted this in another thread. See the offensive line and coaching Joe Burrow has to deal with… (I know this is Browning, but this is the STARTING line) 😬😳 Edited Wednesday at 07:40 PM by ChronicAndKnuckles 2 Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted Wednesday at 07:38 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:38 PM Bobby's seat is not going to get hot when the defense is missing 2 of its best players, its first round draft pick, and 2 of its relevant FA signings. Not saying it shouldn't - just saying what the reality is. 3 Quote
Mat68 Posted Wednesday at 07:45 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:45 PM Right now? No. Week 1 has cratered the run defense thus far. Overall, they have complete shut down the pass. 3 games in a row under 150 yards passing is elite. Couple scrambles from Fields and Rattler makes the over all run defense worst that it has been imo. Oliver , Milano back Ogunjobi and Hoecht soon. I think in short order you look up and they will be top 10 in pretty much everything. Quote
Einstein Posted Wednesday at 07:50 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:50 PM 21 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Usually its not about burning down the sideline but ball placement on the back shoulder. It’s absolutely about speed. Receivers that beat press man are almost always quick. If you try to muscle your way out of press man, it takes too much time. To run and throw a back shoulder route, you need time. The reason press man and blitzing at the sam time works, is because the blitz can get to the QB before the receiver has run his route. Quote
GoBills808 Posted Wednesday at 07:53 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:53 PM 16 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: Honestly, I think the Bills need to implement an entirely different defensive philosophy, but that will never happen with McDermottt here. Like everyone else, he has his pros & cons. Great leadership, loved by Josh/players, USUALLY well prepared, gets maximum out of DBs, built solid trenches on both sides, and great at making half time adjustments. Cons are his defense is small & injury prone, refuses to stray from defensive philosophy, tendency to start mediocre vets over talented rookies, and horrible clock management (maybe the worst I’ve ever seen.) I hate to say it to the McDermott/Beane haters but they are here unless they have multiple losing seasons in a row. If Josh wants him here then that is all that matters. Bills fans have to live & die and die with this defense. I hate certain aspects of it, but I still support it. But he changed the entire culture here and I love him for it. But know this. IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE. Don’t think just because u have a franchise QB that it’s the only reason Buffalo is successful. I posted this in another thread. See the offensive line and coaching Joe Burrow has to deal with… (I know this is Browning, but this is the STARTING line) 😬😳 it's not fair to ask joe burrow to compete w anything less than the best wr duo in the league and a great oline 1 Quote
folz Posted Wednesday at 08:34 PM Posted Wednesday at 08:34 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, billsfan89 said: The opposite side of that coin is that none of the offense were all that good. The Jets have one of the worst offenses in the league certainly bottom 10, Miami's offense is mid-level (likely bottom 10 with Hill out but at the time the Bills played them they were a decent but not great offense) at best, and the Saints are another bottom 10 offense. Granted if you aren't going to "beat up" or at least play solidly against the bottom feeders who are you going to play well against? Also 5 key players could possibly be back at some point this season so its not like there aren't reinforcements coming. I also think if this team needs a piece of defense they will go out and acquire one maybe not a dynamic game breaker but a quality starter similar to how they acquired Douglas in 2023 (who say what you will about how he played in 2024 was fairly good in 2023). I think the truth about the defense is that by the time all is said and done it probably somewhat better than last years defense but we don't know if it is better by a big enough margin? Last year the defense was ranked 17th which tracks with how it performed (beat up on bad teams, OK against OK teams, and bad against good teams). This year if they ranked 15th that's not gonna cut it, but if they can be a 11-12th ranked caliber defense that could make a difference. True, the Saints, Jets, and Dolphins are all in the bottom half/bottom third of the league in offense. But, we still held them to their season averge points/yards per game or worse. And it's not like those teams don't have some very good offensive weapons (Hill, Waddle, Kamara, Olave, Wilson, Hall, Fields---running the ball-wise, etc.), they're going to make some plays. Some posters are acting like we got lit up by these offenses (or played them worse than other teams have) and that we have one of the worst defenses in the league. We are currently an average defense with a lot of opportunity to get much better (with the returning guys and the rookies and 2nd year guys getting more reps and experience). Opponent Total Pts. Pts. rank Yds Rank Avg. Pts/gm Avg. Yds/gm Pts vs. Buf Yds vs. Buf Miami 83 21st 26th 21 286 21 276 Jets 90 19th 21st 23 305 10 154 Saints 66 28th 22nd 17 301 19 298 So, we held Miami and the Saints to just about their current season averages. We held the Jets well below their season average. [Miami has also played: Colts, Pats, Jets; Saints have also played: Cards, SF, Seattle; Jets have also played: Steelers, Bucs, and Dolphins.] And just to repeat from my previous post (what billsfan89 was responding to), if anyone missed it: The Bills held their last three opponents to an average of 16.6 points and 243 yards per game, when league average for offenses is 22 points and 340 yards per game Season combined average for the three teams in question is 20.33 points and 297.33 yards per game. So, 16.6 and 243 is still better--Jets game skews that a bit though. But, just because we let those teams hang around a little longer than we should have in those games, does not mean that they lit up our defense. Though as I said, we obviously still have a long ways to go in the run stuffing department. Also, it's not always just the defense. When, in the 2nd quarter (vs. the Saints), your offense goes INT, 5 and out/punt, 3 and out/punt, 3 and out/punt, it kind of gives teams a chance to get back in or hang around the game. I don't expect our offense to score on every drive, but getting no points on 4 consecutive drives and giving the other team good field position will definitely help to keep a team in a game (plus eleven penalties---seven of which were on the offense or STs). Lots to improve everywhere on the team, but not really anything to be worried too much about overall, imo Edited Wednesday at 09:00 PM by folz 1 1 Quote
colin Posted Wednesday at 08:45 PM Posted Wednesday at 08:45 PM overall: babbich is probably not a good/great DC. i'm trying to think of any coaches who left buffalo and were good. the only three i can think of are kevin gilbride, gregg williams, and greg roman. all of them were super established before they got here. negative take on the d: we suck out loud vs the run, we have the number 1 pass d because baltimore was able to run at will on us, and they we faced fields, dysfunctional miami, and rattler. miami would have got to a tie or lead if we didn't get the lucky pick, it took a fumble for us to beat baltimore, and a ball hitting the floor as well as cooks' hands is what kept us from being behind late vs NO. we still suck on 3rd downs (baltimore ate us, the jets suck out loud, miami ate us, and NO is bad). positive take on the d: we have a lot of guys hurt (groot isn't healthy either) and on suspension. we've changed how we do a lot on D and it's a work in progress. number 1 pass d counts for something. we are kinda letting teams run on us and a few better tackles here and there takes a few TDs off the board, which as we get healthy and more used to the new d wrinkles we will fix. balanced take: run d is terrrible. 3rd down d is bad. too small/slow and hurt all the time. we are getting stops tho, bishop is looking like he might be getting it and is a monster athlete, and adding in oliver, hoty, ogunjobi, milano, and fast rookie cb to take snaps from raw rookie, soloman, raw rookie, dorian, and ancient trey white will improve the product on the field. we don't have the broncos or chargers or browns d, and unless landon jackson or someone ends up being the next bruce smith, we aren't gonna have that any time soon. what we need to win a chip is a d that get 3-5 key stops or turnovers in the playoffs. they average like 2 vs kc in our exits, and a couple of them weren't exactly key (too little too late stuff). if our o can be plus 2 in terms of possessions vs anyone in the nfl we have a crazy chance to win the game. better what we are seeing now and getting some playoff stops than the high metric d's of old that just fold vs good qbs i think we'll have a good idea after the KC game this season. 1 1 Quote
Mister Defense Posted Wednesday at 10:41 PM Author Posted Wednesday at 10:41 PM (edited) 9 hours ago, TheBrownBear said: 10 pages in 24 hours. Kudos to OP. This is top level engagement farming. And no. Babich isn't on any hot seat after holding all of our opponents to sub-300 yards the past three weeks. Not sure if that is sarcasm/snarkism, have not heard that phrase before! Let me know! But to me this is the most important issue for the Bills right now as far as big picture issues, things that can derail the team, the season. Really, it has pretty much been the focus of any negative thoughts I have had for my team for weeks. I think this can be a special year. But if my and others' suspicions are correct, it would be much less likely with Babich. I posted because I think the conversation, at least, needs to start. Because if it is Babich, then we have learned recently that things can improve quickly, and dramatically, even during the season, to turn things around. Brady turned a regressing depressing moribund offense, one that did not resemble our dynamic consistent offense, into a great one in ONE week. With all of the other evidence smashing us in the face before (and after) it was then really evident that it was coaching, for anyone who needed convincing. Same players-- but a dramatically better offense immediately and going forward. Kind of a duh there, I think--unless Brady has magical powers. And it was clear to me with dorsey, unless that did happen, the season was lost. Not AS confident it is Babich, for some of the reasons others have posted here, but it needs to be seriously analyzed, closely, at the very least. We will see what we see in the coming weeks and go from there. I am pretty confident McBeane is feeling the same way, but of course have no way to know that. I am planning on setting up a Zoom meeting with them to lay out my concerns and my analysis. I will keep everyone posted on the results. Edited Thursday at 01:49 AM by Mister Defense 1 1 Quote
LABILLBACKER Posted Thursday at 01:59 AM Posted Thursday at 01:59 AM 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Frazier's D was a top 3 D. You are arguing with facts to say otherwise. If you want to say they were not clutch in the post season be my guest. But they were a top defense. I guess I just appreciate the statistics that are accumulated in the playoffs much more than those in the regular season. You're going up against the best of the NFL. And yes they haven't exactly been clutch in the post season. Even you gotta admit that. The season we actually play like a top 3 or top 10 defense in the PLAYOFFS will probably be the season we win a championship. 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted Thursday at 06:48 AM Posted Thursday at 06:48 AM 4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: I guess I just appreciate the statistics that are accumulated in the playoffs much more than those in the regular season. You're going up against the best of the NFL. And yes they haven't exactly been clutch in the post season. Even you gotta admit that. The season we actually play like a top 3 or top 10 defense in the PLAYOFFS will probably be the season we win a championship. That is fair. But it still doesn't justify people saying things like "the defense is always bad" and "it's like this every year" four games into a season when that is demonstrably untrue. Whether you value regular season statistics or not the Bills used to regularly post very impressive number and performances in the regular season. So getting four gamed into the regular season and claiming the defense being bad is same old, same old, is not justified. Quote
Thurman#1 Posted Thursday at 09:48 AM Posted Thursday at 09:48 AM (edited) On 10/1/2025 at 1:04 AM, Mister Defense said: NOW is Bobby Babich's seat hot? Seriously? Good lord, dude, not even slightly close. Something to watch? Yeah, sure, though pretty much everything is. But is his seat hot? Hell, no. The idea's ridiculous. 7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: I guess I just appreciate the statistics that are accumulated in the playoffs much more than those in the regular season. You're going up against the best of the NFL. And yes they haven't exactly been clutch in the post season. Even you gotta admit that. The season we actually play like a top 3 or top 10 defense in the PLAYOFFS will probably be the season we win a championship. Again, if you look at the defensive performance in the playoffs, it's good. Very good. Except against the Chiefs. That's where the problem is. Edited Thursday at 09:59 AM by Thurman#1 1 Quote
Westside Posted Thursday at 09:53 AM Posted Thursday at 09:53 AM On 9/30/2025 at 12:35 PM, ProcessTruster said: nah... now.. if and when Milano, Ed, Hoecht and Max are on the field and they still can't stop anyone, then maybe you have an issue. IMHO. You mean Oliver who averages one or two good games a year then disappears for the rest of the year? Counting on Hoecht ( who I’ve never heard of before signing here) is going to be our savior on defense? Lol As far as our first round pick, he has busy written all over him. Elam 2.0. 4 Quote
Mister Defense Posted Thursday at 12:46 PM Author Posted Thursday at 12:46 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Seriously? Good lord, dude, not even slightly close. Something to watch? Yeah, sure, though pretty much everything is. But is his seat hot? Hell, no. The idea's ridiculous. Yes, seriously. I apologize for your confusion. Sorry if that was not clear in the OP and my posts that follow. Thought I was crystal clear in my thoughts, but you never know how some others may read things. Very nice back up to your well thought out points. The quality and extent of those show just how confident you must be in your opinions. See bold above, please. Though it appears to have been in vain, in your case, I tried to give clear, specific and detailed based evidence for my ideas and analysis. But obviously you make an excellent case for your own, see bold above, contrary opinion here. So I will spend today thinking through your high level support and analysis and then maybe your wise words cause me and others to reconsider. Well done. Great to see you continue to now add your own very consistent quality of support and analysis in this forum to this important discussion of a major weakness on our team. Edited Thursday at 12:53 PM by Mister Defense 1 Quote
Beck Water Posted Thursday at 01:55 PM Posted Thursday at 01:55 PM 17 hours ago, folz said: True, the Saints, Jets, and Dolphins are all in the bottom half/bottom third of the league in offense. But, we still held them to their season averge points/yards per game or worse. And it's not like those teams don't have some very good offensive weapons (Hill, Waddle, Kamara, Olave, Wilson, Hall, Fields---running the ball-wise, etc.), they're going to make some plays. Some posters are acting like we got lit up by these offenses (or played them worse than other teams have) and that we have one of the worst defenses in the league. We are currently an average defense with a lot of opportunity to get much better (with the returning guys and the rookies and 2nd year guys getting more reps and experience). Opponent Total Pts. Pts. rank Yds Rank Avg. Pts/gm Avg. Yds/gm Pts vs. Buf Yds vs. Buf Miami 83 21st 26th 21 286 21 276 Jets 90 19th 21st 23 305 10 154 Saints 66 28th 22nd 17 301 19 298 So, we held Miami and the Saints to just about their current season averages. We held the Jets well below their season average. [Miami has also played: Colts, Pats, Jets; Saints have also played: Cards, SF, Seattle; Jets have also played: Steelers, Bucs, and Dolphins.] Everyone knows I'm a big numbers and stats guy. But here's the thing about the beginning of the season: how meaningful is it to talk about "season average points/yards" at a point in the year where the game with us is 1/4 of the stats for the season? Quote
skibum Posted Thursday at 02:15 PM Posted Thursday at 02:15 PM Bills D is not getting any credit for how they have stood tall in the 4th quarter this season. They are closing out games like the Chiefs, and to me, that makes up for everything else that's being criticized. Quote
Billy Claude Posted Thursday at 02:54 PM Posted Thursday at 02:54 PM So, maybe Leslie Frazier wasn't the bum that the majority of people seem to think he was? I was always amazed at the lack of credit he got for being DC of the #1 and #2 ranked defenses in 2021 and 2022. 1 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted Thursday at 03:01 PM Posted Thursday at 03:01 PM 5 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: So, maybe Leslie Frazier wasn't the bum that the majority of people seem to think he was? I was always amazed at the lack of credit he got for being DC of the #1 and #2 ranked defenses in 2021 and 2022. He's 10x better than Babich, but at the end of the day his passive defensive scheme got shredded in the playoffs year after year 1 Quote
LABILLBACKER Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM (edited) 5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Seriously? Good lord, dude, not even slightly close. Something to watch? Yeah, sure, though pretty much everything is. But is his seat hot? Hell, no. The idea's ridiculous. Again, if you look at the defensive performance in the playoffs, it's good. Very good. Except against the Chiefs. That's where the problem is. Trust me....it's not just the Chiefs in the playoffs....we gave up points and a ton of yards against Indy(2020), Cincy(2022) and Baltimore(2024). Edited Thursday at 03:06 PM by LABILLBACKER Quote
Mr. WEO Posted Thursday at 03:13 PM Posted Thursday at 03:13 PM On the Bills, the "Defensive Coordinator's" seat is an ejection seat..... McD: "get in, I'll drive..." 1 Quote
Mister Defense Posted Thursday at 04:38 PM Author Posted Thursday at 04:38 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: On the Bills, the "Defensive Coordinator's" seat is an ejection seat..... McD: "get in, I'll drive..." ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? What do you mean?? Am I missing something with this kind of post, and similar posts, that make almost 0 sense? Maybe I had unknowingly fallen asleep for a looooooong time? Can someone help me out here, provide some answers? It seems to imply that Sean McDermott has jettisoned, fired, a slew of defensive coordinators in his NINE YEARS as the Bills' head coach. But isn't Babbich only his second defensive coordinator in those NINE years, after Frasier?? And isn't that on the very low side for coaches with similar nine year tenures? We are mostly adults on here, I assume, so isn't at least a tiny bit of logic, and some base in reality, something that should be guiding all of us? Edited Thursday at 04:44 PM by Mister Defense Quote
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