Game week thread - Pats at Bills SNF

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

They've looked out of sorts since they stepped on the field to start Week 1.

I'm beginning to suspect that Babich was hired more for his personality than his ability.

His lack of attention to detail makes me want to take a turn as a fire everybody sort of guy.

 

Yeah week 1 I almost want to just flush because every single player other than Oliver put out a career-worst type of performance. But I said at the time it is on Babich to have his guys prepared and he didn't. I criticized some of Leslie Frazier's predictable scheme and play calling against playoff opponents, but he had his guys playing like synchronized swimmers. The all-22 on some of those regular season performances was beautiful to watch back. Watching this defense back you frequently see a couple defenders frantically waving their arms or pointing all over the place as the ball is being snapped. Entire gaps are abandoned. After pass completions you see coverage defenders looking around like they were expecting help that never came. We went from Swan Lake to the Truffle Shuffle. It's very frustrating and I don't have any confidence that Babich can fix it.

[BillsFan130]

31 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

They've looked out of sorts since they stepped on the field to start Week 1.

I'm beginning to suspect that Babich was hired more for his personality than his ability.

His lack of attention to detail makes me want to take a turn as a fire everybody sort of guy.

I had questions since midway last season about Babich but the biggest eye opener to me was last years Rams game.

 

Sean Mcvay took him to school all game long and Babich had no answers.

 

It's easy to chalk it up to "ahh it's only his first season so he will learn", but I knew after that game that he's not the man for the job 

[Simon]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Watching this defense back you frequently see a couple defenders frantically waving their arms or pointing all over the place as the ball is being snapped. Entire gaps are abandoned. After pass completions you see coverage defenders looking around like they were expecting help that never came. We went from Swan Lake to the Truffle Shuffle

 

Every bit of this is 100% true and I cannot even remember I saw these guys so unprepared and out of synch.

McD has got to be seeing the same thing and I have ot wonder how long he can tolerate it before he makes a move.

30 minutes ago, boyst said:

We're taking decent angles, we're keeping the play in front of us but we don't execute on the last two or three steps to make a consistent tackle, or even get there when it matters.

 

I've definitely noticed a tendency for them to break down too early.

That leads to guys lunging and when you do that you have no base and no power to work with.

I'm guessing the union would have a fit if McD circled them up, put a bunch of Gazoo helmets on them and spent an hour every day having them run the tackling version of Oklahomas.

 

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

McD has got to be seeing the same thing and I have ot wonder how long he can tolerate it before he makes a move.

 

There is also a part of me that wonders if blaming Babich for the defense is like blaming Klay Kubiak if the 49ers offense struggles. I get that McDermott is trying to play the role of pure head coach but it's his specialty and it's his philosophy driving that side of the ball so he has to take ultimate accountability.

[DaVinci]

They better come up with answers on D because I believe the Pats could beat us if we sleep walk through the game on Defense.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

There is also a part of me that wonders if blaming Babich for the defense is like blaming Klay Kubiak if the 49ers offense struggles. I get that McDermott is trying to play the role of pure head coach but it's his specialty and it's his philosophy driving that side of the ball so he has to take ultimate accountability.

All that emphasis on complementary football and investment in free agency and the draft titled towards supplementing the D. What would accountability existentially mean? I think there was hope some real creativity and change would be introduced to his system this off-season. They brought in some coaches supposedly capable of offering a different perspective. Has there been any appreciable change?

 

And while it's not unreasonable to hope that with the return of Ed and Milano, the incorporation of suspended players, and maybe development of rookies, things will get better, it still seems that too many parts have to function well at a sophisticated level. Unless the front four can consistently apply pressure, this isn't going to be the fierce counterpart to the offense that folks are looking for.

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

There is also a part of me that wonders if blaming Babich for the defense is like blaming Klay Kubiak if the 49ers offense struggles. I get that McDermott is trying to play the role of pure head coach but it's his specialty and it's his philosophy driving that side of the ball so he has to take ultimate accountability.

 

Outside of a handful of impactful individual plays by a combination of Oliver (week 1 monster only), Walker (coming on strong but with limited snaps), and Bosa (his presence has been felt out there a few times, albeit with some lost contains), who else on the DL is causing problems for opposing offenses? Who else is winning reps enough to create opportunities for teammates? Talent up front is not SB caliber right now. 

 

For considerable stretches of every game this season, the defense has been dictated to by long drives filled with 3rd down conversions and bad tackling and poor pocket/edge contain and no pass rush. Lack of difference makers on the line is definitely an issue for a defense that wants to blitz, at most, let's say...selectively. Good QB/RB combos can matriculate the ball down the field against the Bills D and in so doing, limit Allen's drives.

 

Maybe the additions of Hoecht and Ogunjobi and Oliver and Milano will allow Babich to be more multiple and unpredictable, manufacturing more disruption. Maybe Hancock and Hairston will have some opportunities to flash their athleticism and noses for the ball. Maybe Babich is currently limited by the state of his DL, primarily. Which is more of McBeane thing. Maybe?

 

EDIT: @Dr. Who basically said it more succinctly in the post above.

Edited Tuesday at 03:30 AM by Richard Noggin

[Draconator]

Ordered a Cook Rivalry Jersey a bit ago. Hoping it's here before Sunday. 

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Maybe the additions of Hoecht and Ogunjobi and Oliver and Milano will allow Babich to be more multiple and unpredictable, manufacturing more disruption.

 

Babich's problem isn't predictability. His problem is intent, or lack thereof. He seems to think that if you just call a wide variety of plays out of the same look, that is enough to get the opponent off balance. "Oh ho ho, last time we had six guys at the line we sent all six, but THIS time we're only sending four! Good luck Spenc- ah he just scrambled right through the vacated gap for 15 yards."

 

You can't just call plays to call plays. Every play, especially on money downs, you need to anticipate what the opposing OC likes to call in those situations, what the opposing QB likes to do in those situations, and beat them to the punch. So when for example you face a backup caliber QB that likes to throw to his first read or use his legs, you account for it in your play call. You don't blitz while playing off coverage on his best WR as if to signal with a big neon sign "THROW THE BALL HERE." You don't drop both LBs out of the A gaps and leave a wide open lane up the middle for him to plod through.

 

Multiplicity is great and I'm happy the Bills are throwing more pressure looks to make up for coverage issues popping up on the back end, but having a larger playbook doesn't automatically win you games. You still have to call the appropriate plays at appropriate times. The goal of calling the defense is to confuse the opponent and goad them into mistakes. Lately it's more common that we're confusing ourselves.

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Every bit of this is 100% true and I cannot even remember I saw these guys so unprepared and out of synch.

McD has got to be seeing the same thing and I have ot wonder how long he can tolerate it before he makes a move.

 

 

Playing this out... Let's say McD were to decide to make a change at DC, who is it there that fits his D philosophy? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone. And promote from within will leave a hole somewhere. I dont want McD taking over D duties in this year where we are aspiring for a SB. 

It is quite frustrating to see after all the resources that have been allocated to that side of the ball. 

[Richard Noggin]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Babich's problem isn't predictability. His problem is intent, or lack thereof. He seems to think that if you just call a wide variety of plays out of the same look, that is enough to get the opponent off balance. "Oh ho ho, last time we had six guys at the line we sent all six, but THIS time we're only sending four! Good luck Spenc- ah he just scrambled right through the vacated gap for 15 yards."

 

You can't just call plays to call plays. Every play, especially on money downs, you need to anticipate what the opposing OC likes to call in those situations, what the opposing QB likes to do in those situations, and beat them to the punch. So when for example you face a backup caliber QB that likes to throw to his first read or use his legs, you account for it in your play call. You don't blitz while playing off coverage on his best WR as if to signal with a big neon sign "THROW THE BALL HERE." You don't drop both LBs out of the A gaps and leave a wide open lane up the middle for him to plod through.

 

Multiplicity is great and I'm happy the Bills are throwing more pressure looks to make up for coverage issues popping up on the back end, but having a larger playbook doesn't automatically win you games. You still have to call the appropriate plays at appropriate times. The goal of calling the defense is to confuse the opponent and goad them into mistakes. Lately it's more common that we're confusing ourselves.

 

My most frustrating example of this lack of in-game play-calling anticipation/countering, is actually from the offense: every single time Brady (and/or Allen, depending on pre-snap reads and checks) runs Cook repeatedly until the defense finally stuffs one. That predictable, stuffed run play, several times each game, is a wasted down that could have been at least a look at an explosive play-action throw downfield. Why not stay a step AHEAD, rather than waiting for the opposing DC to catch up? I know the cliche of "run it 'till they stop it" but that doesn't have to mean consecutively all at once! Gotta keep defenders off balance and in conflict as much as possible to give your guys every little advantage available. 

[ElMarko]

On 9/28/2025 at 8:14 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

And you know Diggs will be "up" for this one. Had his best game of the season today and against our secondary he may find some success. 

 

But it's time to remind the Patriots that they are still second best at best in the division.

The Bills are currently rated #1 in the NFL with the least amount of passing yards allowed after 4 games. What’s the team’s problem again? 

[Scott7975]

12 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

You’re right, I’m wrong. Christ, I sound like my father. Never missed a play from the 1st preseason game in 1960 and never missed the chance to criticize our play. When they frustrate me, I typically back off a couple days to regroup. But what I’m criticizing isn’t a one-off poor performance. Only the Jets game showed our best performance on Defense. We have a few new players but we’re not getting any better. Yesterday was a shock. Many Penalties, clock mismanagement gaffs, poor tackling fundamentals and caught out of position routinely. Battling out of routinely poor drive starts is difficult for every team. But that’s what happens when you can’t stop the run. For as thrilled as I was with our opening drive TD, the rest of the game I wondered aloud whether we’d be soon be playing catch up the rest of the way. That’s no improvement from the now also-ran Ravens game. We’ve invested so much into the Dline yet to date it’s worse than last season. No pass rush sans 1 or 2 plays per game and overall maddening 3rd Down Defense.

I’d feel better about our situation if there were aspects that definitely showed improving play, but I don’t see much yet..

 

Half of our Dline investment isnt even playing. Oliver has been out. 2 guys on suspension. Not to mention Milano. Im disappointed in the Dline too but Oliver was a beast and Bosa fed off that as well. Nobodies dline is good when you start taking starters away.

11 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

Can I say that it's as simple as the defense remembering how to tackle

 

Yes, its really the biggest problem is all the missed tackles. Just look how many times we've had a b-line on the QB only to whiff and have the QB pick up a first down.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Success said:

 

Vrabel has always preferred this approach.

 

I hope we don't defer if we win the toss.  Best way to set the tone in this game is a long scoring drive to start it off & make them play catch-up.

 

 

This philosophy is so flawed and I can't believe people still stick with it. If you take the ball then don't score you've already given up a massive advantage and made it far more difficult to catch up to it. Even if you do score, you have to be up two scores at the half in order to keep that advantage. Lastly, no one is going to not run the ball just because you scored on the first drive of the game.

 

On the flipside, if you defer and stop their first drive, you have given yourself a potential to be up 3 scores on that team. Even if you don't realize that potential and start slow, you have the cushion to play catch up with the double dip. It is absolutely insane to not defer the ball. 

[Toledo Bill]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

There is also a part of me that wonders if blaming Babich for the defense is like blaming Klay Kubiak if the 49ers offense struggles. I get that McDermott is trying to play the role of pure head coach but it's his specialty and it's his philosophy driving that side of the ball so he has to take ultimate accountability.

Which he never does. He is very good at finding scapegoats. Infuriating!

[Pete]

4 hours ago, ElMarko said:

The Bills are currently rated #1 in the NFL with the least amount of passing yards allowed after 4 games. What’s the team’s problem again? 

They can’t stop the run, little pass rush, abhorrent tackling, third down stops are rare……

[Rockinon]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah and more specifically it is built to play with a lead. An underrated problem the past two games is that the offense has stalled out after early success. When we have an opportunity to force the opponent into chase mode, we aren't delivering. I don't mean that as an excuse for the defense but our offense is too good to have a sequence where 4 out of 5 consecutive drives end with no points, especially against a bottom tier defense like New Orleans. And when you let an inferior opponent hang around for too long they can continue to use their whole playbook and eventually cracks will start to show in the defense.

I'm pretty certain the Bills defense is going to get better as the season goes on, provided there aren't a bunch of injuries late in the season. This year feels different than previous years. A bunch of minor injuries early in the season as well as guys coming back from suspension is setting the team up for a late season run.

 

This is key. With a Bills defense improving, forcing more stops, that gives Josh and the offense more opportunities to score. Nothing is guaranteed but I really like how things are playing out so far. Could be a special year.

[Sierra Foothills]

5 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Playing this out... Let's say McD were to decide to make a change at DC, who is it there that fits his D philosophy? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone. And promote from within will leave a hole somewhere. I dont want McD taking over D duties in this year where we are aspiring for a SB. 

It is quite frustrating to see after all the resources that have been allocated to that side of the ball. 

 

It won't be Leslie Frazier... 😀

 

He's been the Assistant Head Coach in Seattle for the last two seasons..

 

2 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I'm pretty certain the Bills defense is going to get better as the season goes on, provided there aren't a bunch of injuries late in the season. This year feels different than previous years. A bunch of minor injuries early in the season as well as guys coming back from suspension is setting the team up for a late season run.

 

This is key. With a Bills defense improving, forcing more stops, that gives Josh and the offense more opportunities to score. Nothing is guaranteed but I really like how things are playing out so far. Could be a special year.

 

I've posted several times that I think they'll improve as the season progresses.

 

But I've also questioned whether it will be enough.

 

[Rockinon]

21 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I've posted several times that I think they'll improve as the season progresses.

 

But I've also questioned whether it will be enough

I am leaning toward a significant improvement. Looking back at the Ravens game, the defense came up big in the 4th qtr. Those 1st 3qtrs the Bills couldn't get a stop. It doesn't take many to see a significant difference, though. Watching the game it seemed hopeless, but just one forced punt puts the ball back in Josh's hands. One TO does too. The defense isn't as far away as people think. What I look at is whether the defense wilts late in the game. I'm not seeing that. If anything the defense gets tougher late in the game. That's a very good sign.

[SCBills]

7 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

All that emphasis on complementary football and investment in free agency and the draft titled towards supplementing the D. What would accountability existentially mean? I think there was hope some real creativity and change would be introduced to his system this off-season. They brought in some coaches supposedly capable of offering a different perspective. Has there been any appreciable change?

 

And while it's not unreasonable to hope that with the return of Ed and Milano, the incorporation of suspended players, and maybe development of rookies, things will get better, it still seems that too many parts have to function well at a sophisticated level. Unless the front four can consistently apply pressure, this isn't going to be the fierce counterpart to the offense that folks are looking for.

 

 

Im counting on Ed & Hoecht to help.  Both typically available and both very good players. 

 

Ogunjobi is a flyer as a guy who was very good last time he was in our style of Defense. 
 

I can’t count on Hairston or Milano.  We don’t know the actual severity/timeline of Hairstons injury and even when he is a go, who knows if he can get enough reps to help us.   Milano just can’t stay on the field.  
 

If I’m Beane, I’m operating as if CB2 (White/Strong), LB (Milano), S (Rapp) and EDGE (Everyone but Bosa) could use an upgrade before the trade deadline should a move make sense at any of those positions.