Bills running West Coast Offense?

[Alphadawg7]

I think there are a lot of people who dont listen to Allen, Brady, McD, and Beane speak enough and therefore dont truly understand our offense, what is going on during games, and the overall philosophy.  I see a lot of people saying we call a lot of deep shots but no ones open...well first of all, thats not accurate.  There have been guys open plenty of times, but what people don't understand about our offense is many of our routes being run on a given play are being done so to specifically get another guy open.  

 

Just because Josh doesn't throw a deep shot doesn't by default mean "nobody is ever open", yet that is all that is echoed here.  People on here and media keep saying things that Josh is checking down or taking whats there and not even realizing the pass he threw, the routes run, etc were intentional and by design.  Allen, Brady, McD, Beane, all talk about this all the time and its the true meaning of "everybody eats" and everyone buying in because they are running routes hard and selling them knowing full well before the snap they aren't getting the ball even if open because the play is designed to go elsewhere. 

 

So what a lot of people are blaming on players is really by design within the offense.  And the Bills are doing this because it allows them to control the game, TOP, protect the ball and still put points up.  And when they get behind, they know they can open up the offense more (see Balt) and get a lot more aggressive.  But when they are leading or in a close game, they play this game because its been highly effective for them.  

 

Now one doesn't have to like or agree with how they are doing it, but that is what is really going on, its not this "because no one is open we can only do this" as much as people want to always harp on.  
 

And the result is - in the last 12 games, including the playoffs, Josh Allen has over 3000 yards and 30 TDs to 1 turnover - an insane run that is almost hard to believe.  The Bills now have an NFL record of 25 straight games of not losing the turnover battle.  There is a lot I think they are taking from what KC and NE did during their dynasties, which is be elite at the short area throws, move the chains, and keep putting the pressure on the other team to not make mistakes and still have to keep pace with the offense.  

 

We are watching SB Winning football right now.  The play calling hasn't been perfect, in fact there are times especially in the first 2 weeks I hated some of the play calling especially, but they are finding their way and I think the overall philosophy is the kind of football that wins close games and will win the playoffs.  I don't think they have quite mastered it just yet, but I think they are going to only get sharper and more consistent with it as they settle in with all the new pieces as we move forward.  

[Bill51390]

What we’re seeing is Josh continuing to mature and improve aspects of his game like he has every season. It’s amazing how he improves and changes his game up some every year.

Edited September 20 by Bill51390

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I wanted to see how much different Allen was in Dorsey's offense against Miami in Brady's.  It was pretty funny.  There's got to be a happy medium.

 

2003 WC game

 

 

Last game

 

 

Well the INTs are down and overall I am sure the sacks too as Josh was holding the ball so long under Dorsey, but he took a few uncharacteristic sacks this game.

 

I think those may have a bit more to do with Brady mixing in more under center and shallower drops and occasional pistol formation concepts rather than the usual shotgun.

 

We have had a lot of success with mixing in those formations, but I imagine there is less room if Allen has to go off script and a bit easier for a d-line to have an effective cage rush.

 

Just speculating, but would be an interesting stat for someone to lookup.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

3 hours ago, TH3 said:

I mean…..we are running the west coast offense at this point..right?
 

Not that there is anything wrong with that…

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, WideNine said:

I think we got a little predictable on situations when we were going to run the ball and the Dolphins were timing their run blitzes and when to crowd the box pretty well after the first 2 series. So, some self-scouting and looking at what they were keying on - was it down and distance or simply our personnel/formations? Perhaps mixing in a bit more play action when teams are expecting runs.

On passing plays I thought I saw more single high, but I think that was only when I was paying attention on some downs where they expected run. Looks like Miami was using 2-3 deep shells to cap all the deeper routes that forced Allen to take what was under the sticks. We have some good RAC receivers, but there were times the routes were too short of the sticks to convert, so perhaps some work there on concepts that get those guys open a bit closer to the 1st down markers.

Give the Dolphins defense some credit for how many open-field and shoe-string tackles they made in space.

Allen was patient and taking what they were giving, this is far better than forcing it and turning it over, but I get it. It was frustrating watching drives stall out so our offense could not put them away, and our defense letting them convert on every 3rd down to hang around down to the wire.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as I could tell the down and distance was first and ten.  Then we ran one PA that got snuffed and went right back to it.  

[BearNorth]

55 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 The only thing he could possibly get better at are deep balls, but I think that has more to do with Brady. 

We don't have any wide receivers [perhaps Moore] that would flourish in a deep ball environment.

 

40 times:

 

Coleman 4.61

Shakir 4.43

Palmer 4.52

Cook 4.42

Moore 4.35

Shavers 4.59

 

I feel the need for speed

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Theres no one open deep. Theres deep shots called a lot but they’re covered. Beane really needs to find receivers that can get open. 

No reason to show our hand this early in the season playing vs bum teams.  

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No reason to show our hand this early in the season playing vs bum teams.  

I mean that's a nice theory but a lot of our recent playoff games esp the big ones are white knuckle ball control on offense

[Victory Formation]

5 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

At some point not attacking deep is gonna bite us.   But not yet.

I think Brady/Allen are playing mind games at this point. The Art of War.

 

I think our offense will open up again at some point when they like what they’re seeing out of defenses…

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

An all time classic episode 

[boyst]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I’m curious as to what you see that makes you think it isn’t structured ? 

We don't seem to run a put together series

  We will run one series of nothing but low risk runs, the next no runs with only low risk low potential runs, the next one run and two deep shots.  Nothing seems to be working to set up the game plan for opportunistic plays, designed exploitation of weak points, etc.

 

We found things that should have worked against the dolphins, for example. That ball to Coleman kn the first and he kept beating his man through the entire game when going to the left.. Then we never went back to it.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean that's a nice theory but a lot of our recent playoff games esp the big ones are white knuckle ball control on offense

And it will be white knuckled ball control offense again this season.  That’s what this offense is and It should be until it’s not successful. That doesn’t mean we can’t/won’t take shots during a ball control game. It’s what helps set up the deep shots. Mack Hollins scored on a 34 yards TD vs KC last season.  

 

We had pass plays of 55, 34, 25, 24 and 19 vs the broncos in the playoffs.

 

I don’t see any reason to doubt this offense at this point in the season while we’re averaging 34+ ppg.  
 

Coleman, Kincaid, Palmer, Shakir and Moore are all capable of making plays downfield.  As are Knox, the RBs and Shavers.   Offenses evolve as the season goes on.  I don’t think our weapons are incapable of continuing to improve.  In fact, I expect many of them to do just that.  
 

 

 

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

At some point not attacking deep is gonna bite us.   But not yet.

 

I'm assuming some of that is dictated by what the D is doing?

[BigDingus]

6 hours ago, cas22 said:

no we are not running west coast offense, in a west coast your QB is under center 98% of the time and you have a fullback in the backfield, we are running a hybrid type of scheme, really no particular system, I would say its a  more read option , even Daboll didn't run a true system, he was suppose to run a Erhardt Perkins system which it wasn't, over the years OCs run a majority of there plays out of the shotgun, if any label used I would say read option.

 

That's not required for a West coast offense though. It's not about having a fullback or being under center most of the time, it's about the short passing game, stretching the field horizontally & picking up 1st downs over taking big shots. Not really much to do with running the ball any particular way or having a set formation.

[hondo in seattle]

7 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Theres no one open deep. Theres deep shots called a lot but they’re covered. Beane really needs to find receivers that can get open. 

 

There's that and there's how teams play D against us.  I love Jimbo but defenses don't crowd the box to stop him.  Defenses often take away the long pass and challenge us to dink-and-dunk and run the length of the field, hoping at some point they'll get a stop. 

Even the best offenses have miscues, penalties, dropped passes, and so on.  Eventually, by taking away the deep ball, the defense gets a stop or gets us to settle for a FG.  Not on every series, but enough to keep the game close.   

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

No reason to show our hand this early in the season playing vs bum teams.  

Our hand stays the same all season. Even into the playoffs. Every season we say this. It's not like we're showing these new, clever, innovative plays into the playoffs.  They never come?

[Comebackkid]

8 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Theres no one open deep. Theres deep shots called a lot but they’re covered. Beane really needs to find receivers that can get open. 

watching replay of allens throws, there were guys open..definately when you talk nfl open.   a part of that is it seems like the likes to go through his 

reads sometimes and so he will move on past an open receiver and theres no time to go back. ...sometimes I wish he would see the guy and throw...

the window doesnt stay open long but it does open.   

as far as no one open deep...i figure most were like me not wanting to see bombs way but just a little deeper depth at times.   

 

[Comebackkid]

7 hours ago, boyst said:

The consistency theme just isn't there. I can't describe it eloquent words it's just the eye and the sniff test don't muster with the product we're seeing. Nothing seems quite cohesive nor complimentary in a system that works. Using the play action to set up the long ball, using the runs to shut down the pass rush, bouncing it to the outside on runs or speaking the edge to make safeties bite

 

Game package itself is what Josh is describing as taking with the defense gives you. The NFL is doing a lot of that these days, coordination is becoming quite vanilla. I don't know how much Josh is changing it at the line but that also might be something

they kinda said it pretty good on buffalo plus.    they mentioned that yes the offensive is balanced and yes they are putting points on the board but

going back to last year its like it just seems to difficult at times.   their feelings were they could do more to just make it easier on the offense to get points.  

 a safe short game is nice but...   if it takes you 20 attemps compared to 10 to get down the field thats double the chances for the D to stop you or something 

bad to go wrong. 

 

 

[boyst]

11 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

they kinda said it pretty good on buffalo plus.    they mentioned that yes the offensive is balanced and yes they are putting points on the board but

going back to last year its like it just seems to difficult at times.   their feelings were they could do more to just make it easier on the offense to get points.  

 a safe short game is nice but...   if it takes you 20 attemps compared to 10 to get down the field thats double the chances for the D to stop you or something 

bad to go wrong. 

 

 

Exactly. Coaches and the theme of the league is too off base for my liking. You get 4-6 possessions a game.

 

The Bills need to simply execute and just get the job done. 

[ColoradoBills]

22 minutes ago, boyst said:

Exactly. Coaches and the theme of the league is too off base for my liking. You get 4-6 possessions a game.

 

The Bills need to simply execute and just get the job done. 

 

I am willing to bet that since McDermott has been coach of the Buffalo Bills there has never been a game that the Bills

have had only 4 possessions.