Bills cuts discussion

[RoscoeParrish]

Just now, thurst44 said:

Did I say he's a starter?

 

While I don't really buy the logic you proposed, but I said he's a quality backup who is an adequate starter when need be, so 63rd best safety in the league would mathematically translate to an above average back-up. 

 

People are saying he doesn't belong in the league. That's silly. 

He doesn't belong in the starting lineup. But he has been because we have had no one better.

 

In 2022, he allowed a 144 rating when targeted. He’s not good.

 

You can have a good defense with a player who doesn’t belong in the starting lineup. We have managed around Hamlin fine. But none of that makes him “average” or “solid,” he’s just not good. And the less he plays, the better the defense will be.

[Pete]

16 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

Why would that be surprising, he started last year and has been Safety 3 all summer.   shocker?  I mean I get he is not an all pro and I would not want him as a starter but he does provide a certain floor in a pinch. 

Damar is a good safety #3

[chris heff]

33 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

was he an old guy? I have noticed old people aren’t big “go bills” reply people. 

No he was not an “old guy”, maybe 30s or early 40s.

[Bills!Win!]

I was just thinking, some of these guys are trying out for one of the best teams in the NFL. They have to know their chances were slim from the start right? 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Toss is Alec Anderson can play tackle, assuming he's healthy. 

Honest question, Can he play OT? I understand he is 6th OL playing at OT/TE in heavy packages. But can he really play RT or LT? I thought his value was that he could play Center not OT in a pinch. 

[chris heff]

33 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Sometimes I reply “hey, hey, what’s YOUR name sailor?”

There are exceptions, for you this is an appropriate response.

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Trust The Process said:

From Brandon Beane's first year as GM of the Bills in 2018 through 2024, in rounds 2 and 3, Brandon Beane wasted a subtotal of 6 premium draft picks the past 7 seasons from 2018 to 2024. 

Kincaid, Coleman, Bishop, and Carter remains to be seen, but at the moment it's not looking good for Bishop and more so for Carter.

 

2nd rounders wasted 
Basham
Epenesa 

 

3rd rounders wasted: 
Moss
Singletary

Cooper (Trade)

Douglas (Trade)

Oo! Oo! Now we should do the rest of the league!!
 

I’ll start with the Chiefs!!! 
 

2nd Rounders Wasted:
 

Breeland Speaks

Skyy Moore

Kingsley Suamataia

 

3rd Rounders Wasted:

Dorian O’Daniel

Lucas Niang

Wanya Morris

Since you mentioned Elam, can I mention Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Clyde Edwards-Helaire? 
 

For those counting at home, that’s 8!!! 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, chris heff said:

No he was not an “old guy”, maybe 30s or early 40s.

no excuse!! 

[chris heff]

15 minutes ago, stevewin said:

One time I was at the airport wearing something Bills and this guy passes me and instead of just saying Go BIlls he sings the shout song *Hey ey ey ey" and then stops and stares like I think expecting me to sing it back?  Wtf  I gave him a quixk Go Bills and got the hell out of there

Was it Diggs?

[Shortchaz]

I think what everyone is trying to say is that they like Hamlin 

[gonzo1105]

1 minute ago, Bills!Win! said:

I was just thinking, some of these guys are trying out for one of the best teams in the NFL. They have to know their chances were slim from the start right? 

 

Yea I agree for a lot of them its slim but a lot of times its just getting yourself some quick cash with the signing bonus and get a salary in training camp. Hoping that you can stick to the Practice Squad to keep getting a paycheck for a game instead of dealing with a real life job. If no longer good enough for the NFL hopefully their NFL tape can land them in the Spring leagues to get paid or up north. Your right though that the vast majority are fighting for a small niche job on the roster or one of the practice squad spots in the NFL. 

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Honest question, Can he play OT? I understand he is 6th OL playing at OT/TE in heavy packages. But can he really play RT or LT? I thought his value was that he could play Center not OT in a pinch. 

 

I think he can play it but its obvious that the Bills aren't very comfortable doing it. I believe that he did play a snap or two out there because a couple of tackles got dinged up in a game once if I recall correctly 

[appoo]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

Also, I would love to know what teams are just swimming in upper echelon, starting calib

 

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

He's a backup and special teams quality player who -- due to a lack of superior options on the roster, which is a Brandon Beane and Cole Bishop problem, not a Hamlin problem -- was pressed into starting duty last year. He had good moments and bad moments. The defense on which he played finished 12th in points per game allowed, and the team on which he played was a drive away from going to the Super Bowl.

But understand this: saying that he's a backup and special teams quality payer who you'd rather not have starting for your team most weeks is a world away from saying he doesn't belong on an NFL roster or only has a spot because the coaches feel bad for him, which is the silliness that a lot of people try to push.

Also, I would love to know what teams are just swimming in upper echelon, starting caliber safeties. What NFL teams go four and five deep with starting caliber, above-replacement-level safeties? Can you name, say, three such teams?

 

That would be a waste of cap space. I mean Darrick Forrest was a back up player for a team that made the NFC Championship game last year. And he just got cut in favor of Hamlin

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

no man.

 

if Hamlin is the weakest link on the 2024 defense and “average,” the defense wouldn’t have been mediocre in most stats and terrible in a couple.

 

Despite having 2 INTs, he allowed a 103 rating in coverage.

 

Despite playing nearly every snap last year, he crawled back to the Bills for a near vet minimum deal. He is the 63rd highest paid S in the league in an FA market. He’s bottom of the barrel. He’s not average.

 

KC started Bryan Cook at safety the past two years. He's no better than Hamlin. He has given up a 110.5 passer rating in coverage since becoming a starter. They've had a great defense in spite of that.

 

Safety is not going to be the problem with the defense this year. If there is one, it will be coaching/play calling like it was for much of last year. Or maybe CB2. A defense heavy coaching staff needs to be able to make up for replacement level safety play. If KC can do it, so can we. I don't want that to become the excuse if the defense disappoints yet again this season.

[Max Fischer]

18 minutes ago, stevewin said:

One time I was at the airport wearing something Bills and this guy passes me and instead of just saying Go BIlls he sings the shout song *Hey ey ey ey" and then stops and stares like I think expecting me to sing it back?  Wtf  I gave him a quixk Go Bills and got the hell out of there

 

The Shout song only seems to work with three or more people. Preferably 10 or more. It's creepy when one person sings it to you.  

[DapperCam]

I really had hopes for Forrest. How bad do you have to be to not beat out Hamlin? Why can’t we find a bottom of the roster Safety that can beat out Hamlin!?

 

28 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

In 2022, they had the number 2 defense and he started 13 games. As most people who study the film will attest, Hamlin's a quality backup who can play adequately if need be. 

 

He's not there b/c of "charity" or "character," but because he is a solid backup who is a veteran in the system and this idea that he wouldn't be on any other roster is downright silly.

 

 

I think Hamlin is considerably slower now than he was in 2022. He stays on the team because he knows the system and doesn’t blow assignments. That somewhat makes up for his complete lack of athleticism.

Edited Tuesday at 06:43 PM by DapperCam

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Oo! Oo! Now we should do the rest of the league!!
 

I’ll start with the Chiefs!!! 
 

2nd Rounders Wasted:
 

Breeland Speaks

Skyy Moore

Kingsley Suamataia

 

3rd Rounders Wasted:

Dorian O’Daniel

Lucas Niang

Wanya Morris

Since you mentioned Elam, can I mention Felix Anudike-Uzomah and Clyde Edwards-Helaire? 
 

For those counting at home, that’s 8!!! 

Imagine if people could actually look at the NFL holistically and understand what is normal and what is impossible.   People literally look back at drafts and pick the guys taken soon after a Bills pick that worked out and use that as evidence why the GM sucks.  The post you quoted is so ridiculous.......and I am sure the person is not actually willing too listen and understand why.

8 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

The Shout song only seems to work with three or more people. Preferably 10 or more. It's creepy when one person sings it to you.  

It can be cringy at times.

[thurst44]

4 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

He doesn't belong in the starting lineup. But he has been because we have had no one better.

 

In 2022, he allowed a 144 rating when targeted. He’s not good.

 

You can have a good defense with a player who doesn’t belong in the starting lineup. We have managed around Hamlin fine. But none of that makes him “average” or “solid,” he’s just not good. And the less he plays, the better the defense will be.

Well, I disagree that he's "just not good", and many Bills media who analyze the film also disagree. Even PFF (who I don't love) rates him as... fine (above average against run, below against the pass).

 

And again, while I can't say 144 when targeted isn't terrible, he was so bad in 2022 that they had one of the best defenses in football. As another poster mentioned, when a player is surrounded by great players, they tend to get targeted. He had 103 last year, which is also pretty bad, but it wasn't even close to worst on the defense. And coverage isn't 100% of a safety's job.

 

I'm not arguing that Hamlin is an above average (or even good) starter, just that he's not a liability on the roster. To an extent, I agree, the less he plays, the better the defense will be... if that means Cole Bishop is playing well. I do agree we should have a better starter than Damar Hamlin. But we could also do worse if our starters go down. 

 

Many of us are just pushing back against the notion he wouldn't be on any other roster. 

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

go army beat navy

 

Fear the Goat…

[thurst44]

8 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I really had hopes for Forrest. How bad do you have to be to not beat out Hamlin? Why can’t we find a bottom of the roster Safety that can beat out Hamlin!?

 

I think Hamlin is considerably slower now than he was in 2022. He stays on the team because he knows the system and doesn’t blow assignments. That somewhat makes up for his complete lack of athleticism.

So, we're saying pretty close to the same thing here. Although "complete lack of athleticism" feels a bit over the top. And, yes, I do get that you caveat'ed this with "considerably slower" so that may be your counter to this assessment from when he was drafted.

 

 

 

[RoscoeParrish]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

KC started Bryan Cook at safety the past two years. He's no better than Hamlin. He has given up a 110.5 passer rating in coverage since becoming a starter. They've had a great defense in spite of that.

 

Safety is not going to be the problem with the defense this year. If there is one, it will be coaching/play calling like it was for much of last year. Or maybe CB2. A defense heavy coaching staff needs to be able to make up for replacement level safety play. If KC can do it, so can we. I don't want that to become the excuse if the defense disappoints yet again this season.

I don’t know Bryan Cook as well, but if someone wants to argue he’s also not a good player, i won’t disagree.