The safety position as per Bobby Babich

[SCBills]

22 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah I expect them to draft safety high next year.  It seems like this position is more important to our defense that others.  We need real talent back there.

I think this could be one of our midseason trades like we did with Amari Cooper/Rasul Douglas if we don't get the production with Bishop.

Are we capable of doing a mid season trade for a Safety?

 

Every talking head seems to think it’s take half a season to ramp up the ability to play Safety in McDermott’s Defense. 
 

Any other position, sure.. but Safety has this extra layer of complexity to it at all times. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think its a tad overblown on the pass rush "sucks".  The team was 10th in pressure rate a year ago (with the 5th lowest blitz %), added several young pieces as well as joey bosa.  They were also #3 in takeaways which is usually somewhat influenced by a pass rush.  

with the investment into our defensive line i remain concerned that it is not good enough.

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

If our pass rush sucks this year, something drastic needs to be done. 
 

In reality, we’ve had a decent pass rush most years in terms of pressure rate, but like everyone else on that side of the ball they fold and/or get hurt in the playoffs. 
 

Bosa - Jones - Oliver - Rousseau

 

On paper, that’s a Top 10 DL

 

Add in Hoecht and Epenesa as our DE3 and DE4, and I’d contend from what Hoecht has shown, that’s pretty strong as well.  
 

Issue then becomes, do the rookies Jackson, Sanders and Walker give us anything?  And does Carter have any second year juice whatsoever.  Ogunjobi seems like vet insurance for Week 7 if the answer above is no. 
 

When healthy, off-suspension, I think we have 4 plus guys in Bosa, Rousseau, Oliver and Hoecht.  Then a lot of unknown with Jones at his age and a bunch of rookies/second year players. 
 

Given the investment, this Defense better have the pass rush juice of former years that you spoke of. 

agreed. and with the investment in capital for the draft + free agents over the last 3-4 years we have not got ROI

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I think the understanding of positional responsibilities and interchangeability -- not to mention scheme and personnel deployment -- among most NFL fans lags quite far behind reality.

The old fashioned understanding of strong and free safeties as mentioned here, the differences in responsibility and body type between a 4-3 and 3-4 defensive end (it took a long time for "Edge" to become a common nomenclature for NFL fans, and even then, the Pro Bowl voting still doesn't differentiate between these things), the interchangeability of linebackers in modern defenses, and the common fan perception of a specific and numbered wide receiver depth chart when, in reality, coaches don't think in such terms.

Just a few examples of the massive gulf in knowledge and understanding between fans and coaches/players. There are different levels to football knowledge for fans, of course, but just about all of them lag far behind reality. And I include myself in the "there's so much we don't know or outright misperceive" pile, lest anyone think I'm being holier than thou.

It's one of the reasons I wish there was more mainstream educational/informed NFL programming. Matchup shows, scheme and positional explanations, etc. That stuff all exists in the amateur blogosphere and sometimes in spaces like SiriusXM radio, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for it on ESPN or NFLN. Most fans are content not knowing what they don't know.

 

I wonder if it's this, or the issue is that it's hard to find people who are able to provide that in-depth content.   Eric Wood seems to do a good job on Sirrius in-game.  I'd love to watch a full game breakdown by him.  

[Allen2Moulds]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think its a tad overblown on the pass rush "sucks".  The team was 10th in pressure rate a year ago (with the 5th lowest blitz %), added several young pieces as well as joey bosa.  They were also #3 in takeaways which is usually somewhat influenced by a pass rush.  

I think those feelings stem from our playoff losses.  4X vs. KC, and 1X vs. Cincy.  If you recall in the Cincy game, they were playing a cast of backups, on an already mediocre line.  In KC's superbowl loss to Tampa, and again against Philly, there oline got exposed.  At this point, that's all that matters.  Our dline for the most part, are no shows in that game.  I don't love seeing Rosseau get thrown around, by a mediocre KC oline, or Ed being invisible.  At least with Ed, he's going against the strength of their oline. 

Edited August 21 by Allen2Moulds

[boyst]

42 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I think those feelings stem from our playoff losses.  4X vs. KC, and 1X vs. Cincy.  If you recall in the Cincy game, they were playing a cast of backups, on an already mediocre line.  In KC's superbowl loss to Tampa, and again against Philly, there oline got exposed.  At this point, that's all that matters.  

That in the reality of who we beat and who they had as qbs. We maul the bad teams, which bad teams usually have bad quarterbacking and/or bad pass protection 

 

So teams that suck have bad quarterbacks which are slow to make reads and are easily pressured. 

 

When we face a top half quarterback we don't care as well, when we face a top five quarterback they sit back and write their autobiography while roasting a turkey. Or just are able to get it out so quick because our coverage sucks that we can't even move out of our stance on the line. 

 

We are skewed because we play the Jets and the Patriots twice, we have Tua's number, and those are two or three quarterbacks that are mid get wallopped by us. 

Edited August 21 by boyst

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, boyst said:

That in the reality of who we beat and how they Arby's. 

 

Well now I want a Beef'n'Cheddar

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I think those feelings stem from our playoff losses.  4X vs. KC, and 1X vs. Cincy.  If you recall in the Cincy game, they were playing a cast of backups, on an already mediocre line.  In KC's superbowl loss to Tampa, and again against Philly, there oline got exposed.  At this point, that's all that matters.  Our dline for the most part, are no shows in that game.  I don't love seeing Rosseau get thrown around, by a mediocre KC oline, or Ed being invisible.  At least with Ed, he's going against the strength of their oline. 

Prior to the Tampa SB, KC lost both their starting tackles late in the AFC championship game vs the Bills when it was already out of hand. The line was playing well before that. 

[Allen2Moulds]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Prior to the Tampa SB, KC lost both their starting tackles late in the AFC championship game vs the Bills when it was already out of hand. The line was playing well before that. 

Fair enough.  

[boyst]

26 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Well now I want a Beef'n'Cheddar

i miss 5 for 5.

then it was 2 for $5.

now it is 2 for $8, i think i saw.

[zow2]

4 hours ago, DJB said:

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time . 
 

What’s also interesting 

 

I think we definitely knew it at the time.  They were excellent for us, and durable.

 

But even they couldn't contain Tyreek and Kelce when we needed them most.

[nuklz2594]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

there is so much here to say about this that it is infuriating that the position is so misunderstood. in our defense it is more complex than most any other system and people think "oh, we're just a tampa 2."

 

because we play a lot of nickel we don't have 3 LB's on the field and the opportunity to have a big nickel is not available. taron johnson isn't that guy. if we could get to dime with a big safety playing 3-2-6.... that'd be something. but, we don't have poop for a pass rush with 4 so 3 could never get it done.

 

think back to the Mario Williams, Jerry Hughes, Marcel Dareus, and more days and prior...Those guys pushed the pocket around and caused chaos. our mediocre DB's were able to ballhawk the hell out of the defense which gave rise during our premier pass rushing days to the legends of Byrd, Alonso. Those guys were glorified because of our pass rush.

 

Now our pass rush sucks, our db's look weak, and we have been spoiled by two of the best to pair together in the league history.

Miss our 3-4 days

[Walking Tall]

5 hours ago, DJB said:

Very interesting read. Clearly the Bills value guys that can play in the box and deep covering the field and to be interchangeable. It obviously helps with disguising the defence from the QB a little more . 
 

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time . 
 

What’s also interesting 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

Let’s say, best case scenario.. Bishop pulls a Bernard and becomes a plus level Safety. 
 

Does anyone trust Rapp/Bishop to stay healthy all season?  Due to Rapp’s play style and Bishop’s injury history since entering the league, we must have one of the most brittle Safety duos in the league. 
 

Which is why Hamlin catches so much heat, fairly or unfairly.   Hes been a pseudo-starter in this Defense. 
 

I can see them not bringing in a Simmons because they believe in Bishop, but whether it’s Hancock and/or one of these depth/rotation trades we’ve seen yesterday, I think we need to think strongly about upgrading Safety depth when our depth there is constantly tested. 

Bills play 20+ a year, we shouldn't realistically trust anyone to stay healthy. 

[Buffalo716]

I've been saying for years here that there is no real free or strong safety in McDermott's defense 

 

You need interchangeable safeties at the NFL level now

[boyst]

20 minutes ago, nuklz2594 said:

Miss our 3-4 days

the 3-4 days are 404 in the nfl.

 

the system puts linebackers out there to be undermatched.

[RoscoeParrish]

8 hours ago, DJB said:

Man we had it good with Micah and Poyer and didn’t probably realize it as much at the time

both got AP nods during their primes here.

 

its kind of funny, but that era of Bills defense was really built on the back 7. A strong DL making everyone better is what everyone talks about, but that defense was built on having Poyer, Hyde, Taron, White, and Milano on the backend so guys like Trent Murphy and Mario Addison could get to QBs.

 

That type of strategy may have its downsides, but our defense was elite adjacent solely because our back 7 was elite. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I was really excited about Babich taking over the defense…it better get better very early in the regular season or he’s going to be the first guy in trouble. This defense needs to be better and regardless of who’s to blame. He’s going to be the first target 

[mushypeaches]

In my mind, Bishop is the next Edmunds - a guy with elite physical traits but lacks the football instincts to be a difference making player.  
 

I get why teams draft these guys but they are fools gold in the end

[TFBillsfan]

7 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think its a tad overblown on the pass rush "sucks".  The team was 10th in pressure rate a year ago (with the 5th lowest blitz %), added several young pieces as well as joey bosa.  They were also #3 in takeaways which is usually somewhat influenced by a pass rush.  

My eyes tell a different story. All too often our pass rush is nullified and can’t bring the QB down. It’s beyond maddening that our DL isnt more disruptive. We straight up bull rush 90% of time and the DL typically gets stopped in their tracks. When’s the last time you’ve seen one of our DL bust throw for an easy sack? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think its a tad overblown on the pass rush "sucks".  The team was 10th in pressure rate a year ago (with the 5th lowest blitz %), added several young pieces as well as joey bosa.  They were also #3 in takeaways which is usually somewhat influenced by a pass rush.  

"Pressure rate"