Does there need to be a rethinking of the basic D?

[Fleezoid]

10 minutes ago, finn said:

Agree. And the only real difference this year is that Bosa replaced Von Miller. To avoid KC scoring 34 points AGAIN in January, the Bills defense needed a radical overhaul, not a tweak. The best pass rush in the world won't get home with this secondary, especially with its lack of depth. It's like Beane and McDermott are on different pages. Beane wants more pressure so loads up on the D-line, only to be thwarted by McDermott, who instructs his safeties to let the receivers catch the ball because maybe they'll drop it or a penalty will negate the play. Clap clap. 

 

Man, I would love to see an aggressive philosophy. Yes, they'll get burned, but they'll also sack the QB. The drip drip drip of third-and-long completions is just agony. Plus, it keeps the best QB in the league on the bench. 

 

Even Pegula won't keep McDermott after a repeat of last year, right? (Right?)

 

I've been completely on the fence with respect to McDermott. I've thought, at least he has this team competitive every year. At the same time, I can also see the criticism about the lack of playoff success. And I've always been critical of his soft defensive stance. But after last night, and I know it's just preseason, but I'm absolutely leaning toward McDermott's defensive philosophy is not getting it done. They can't keep letting teams stay on the field and burn clock. 

[TBBills Fan]

I think the ladies prefer that good D

[TwistofFate]

In my opinion we should have went after a solidified top defensive coordinator. This whole learning on a job and promoting from within sounds good in theory but the reality of the situation is we're facing teams like the chiefs with two Hall of Fame coaches on both sides of the ball. We need top tier coaching especially on that defensive side. I miss the Leslie Frazier days to be honest. This team cannot get out of its way especially on third Downs.

[JP51]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

In my opinion we should have went after a solidified top defensive coordinator. This whole learning on a job and promoting from within sounds good in theory but the reality of the situation is we're facing teams like the chiefs with two Hall of Fame coaches on both sides of the ball. We need top tier coaching especially on that defensive side. I miss the Leslie Frazier days to be honest. This team cannot get out of its way especially on third Downs.

I literally said that above... I never thought I would long for the days of Leslie Frazier... but this guy is an abomination... 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

The system is designed to make opponents go 10-12 plays to get it down and score.  And somewhere in there, the thinking is we get a fumble, INT, sack, etc..to stop the drive.  The Bills D does a pretty good job on first and second down but they've been horrible on 3rd downs (as we all know).  That has to change,

 

Also worth noting that our base isn't cover/tampa 2, it is cover 3. 

Edited August 18 by Mango

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

The problem is as athletes, put guys got the crap best put of them. 

[Jester]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't believe we saw our real defense yet. But what we have seen is scary bad.

I admit I'm a bit panicked about the D but I'm hoping/guessing you're right.  No way, our real defense is that bad.  But aside from Benford, the secondary still scares me. 😬

[Utah John]

3 hours ago, MPL said:

Last night’s d-line consisted of 3 rookies and 1 2nd-year players — all of which are backups or players considered to be projects — against a Bears starting offense that had something to prove in Ben Johnson’s first home preseason game. These are the first game reps these guys have played against nfl starters. Of course there was no effective pass rush. Dane Jackson was your CB1 on the night against DJ Moore. Let’s all relax. Last night showed nothing. 

What it showed is that if all the Bills starters get the flu, the subs are not going to be very good.  Which if you think about it is why they're subs.  What really matters is, how does the team look if all but one or two are starters and one or two are backups -- does the entire system continue to work well?  (Excepting the D line which rotates players frequently.)

[MPL]

4 minutes ago, Utah John said:

3 hours ago, MPL said:

Last night’s d-line consisted of 3 rookies and 1 2nd-year players — all of which are backups or players considered to be projects — against a Bears starting offense that had something to prove in Ben Johnson’s first home preseason game. These are the first game reps these guys have played against nfl starters. Of course there was no effective pass rush. Dane Jackson was your CB1 on the night against DJ Moore. Let’s all relax. Last night showed nothing. 

What it showed is that if all the Bills starters get the flu, the subs are not going to be very good.  Which if you think about it is why they're subs.  What really matters is, how does the team look if all but one or two are starters and one or two are backups -- does the entire system continue to work well?  (Excepting the D line which rotates players frequently.)

Yes, if we're in a position this season where those exact 11 players are on the field together, we're f'd. But that scenario only happens if we're up by 50 in the 4th quarter or the starters all eat bad subs from the only remaining Jreck Subs in Booneville and all come down with e.coli — which I'd say has a less than .00001% chance of happening. 

[bigduke6]

if you cant rush the passer,  cant stop the run consistently, and cant cover,  then i guess its time to make some changes on D.  this isnt about preseason.  its about being near the bottom in pass coverage the last couple of seasons.  which coincides with the loss of Hyde and Poyer.  this team just cant get both sides of the ball working at the same time.  even back in the Kelly days one side of the ball rolled while the other struggled.  

 

you know how you make an average defense better?  cheat.  ask the Patriots.  knowing what the other team is going to do with their plays is a huge advantage,  one many teams exploit in this league.  hell,  Cowboys did it against the Bills back in the day.  im not saying go out there and outright cheat.  theres plenty of grey areas that teams will and do exploit.  figure it out.  knowing is half the battle.  you cant be the "good" guys and hope to win.  you have to make it happen.  ive learned this from corporate Murica and our politicians btw.  

[CirclnWagons]

What am I missing with Cole Bishop? High draft pick, has been constantly injured throughout his short tenure in Buffalo. Read several articles and heard a ton on podcasts and OBL about him having a phenomenal winter in buffalo. How his body is finally right and he’s been in the playbook all off season. Dudes been smoked like a dime store menthol across two games. Cannot be depended on to hold down a safety spot. Is it safe to say it’s time to bring Po back if it’s a team friendly deal? 

[finn]

52 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

I've been completely on the fence with respect to McDermott. I've thought, at least he has this team competitive every year. At the same time, I can also see the criticism about the lack of playoff success. And I've always been critical of his soft defensive stance. But after last night, and I know it's just preseason, but I'm absolutely leaning toward McDermott's defensive philosophy is not getting it done. They can't keep letting teams stay on the field and burn clock. 

It seems smart because teams do stall out with penalties, dropped balls, and other miscues, and you can beat bad teams especially this way and rack up the wins. But McDermott seems to assume, against all evidence, that the same approach will work in the playoffs against quality teams whose coaches take their teams to another level. Again, what's different? Maybe he'll surprise us, but I think it's far more likely that he's found some way to rationalize the latest defensive collapse against KC. 

 

The narrative is already taking shape, but it will be written in stone after this year: Pegula and Beane had the best QB the franchise has or ever will see, but they blew his prime by sticking with a mediocre, stubborn coach who was just good enough to lose in the end. The only possible silver lining is after yet another post-season collapse, even they will realize McDermott has to go. 

 

I'm hopeful because, well, on any given day. But it's not easy when I see McClappy on the sideline. 

[Yobogoya!]

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

The system is designed to make opponents go 10-12 plays to get it down and score.  And somewhere in there, the thinking is we get a fumble, INT, sack, etc..to stop the drive.  The Bills D does a pretty good job on first and second down but they've been horrible on 3rd downs (as we all know).  That has to change,

 

I think it's fair to say that philosophically, Belichick and Spagnulo run a system that's the polar opposite of this one. And combined they are responsible for 6 of the last 11 super bowl wins (I know the success of those teams kind of speaks for itself). Bend/don't break hasn't historically been the key to unlocking successful championship runs. 

 

The talk at the end of last season was we might finally see something of a renaissance regarding the way McDermott viewed his personnel and defensive concepts. But I just don't think that guy has it in him to stray too far from his comfort zone. 

[YattaOkasan]

13 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

if you cant rush the passer,  cant stop the run consistently, and cant cover,  then i guess its time to make some changes on D.  this isnt about preseason.  its about being near the bottom in pass coverage the last couple of seasons.  which coincides with the loss of Hyde and Poyer.  this team just cant get both sides of the ball working at the same time.  even back in the Kelly days one side of the ball rolled while the other struggled.  

 

you know how you make an average defense better?  cheat.  ask the Patriots.  knowing what the other team is going to do with their plays is a huge advantage,  one many teams exploit in this league.  hell,  Cowboys did it against the Bills back in the day.  im not saying go out there and outright cheat.  theres plenty of grey areas that teams will and do exploit.  figure it out.  knowing is half the battle.  you cant be the "good" guys and hope to win.  you have to make it happen.  ive learned this from corporate Murica and our politicians btw.  

Las couple of seasons?  Please provide stats.  Last year was different than previous seasons (agree that its cause of the loss of Hyde and Poyer, which started last year).

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, finn said:

It seems smart because teams do stall out with penalties, dropped balls, and other miscues, and you can beat bad teams especially this way and rack up the wins. But McDermott seems to assume, against all evidence, that the same approach will work in the playoffs against quality teams whose coaches take their teams to another level. Again, what's different? Maybe he'll surprise us, but I think it's far more likely that he's found some way to rationalize the latest defensive collapse against KC. 

 

The narrative is already taking shape, but it will be written in stone after this year: Pegula and Beane had the best QB the franchise has or ever will see, but they blew his prime by sticking with a mediocre, stubborn coach who was just good enough to lose in the end. The only possible silver lining is after yet another post-season collapse, even they will realize McDermott has to go. 

 

I'm hopeful because, well, on any given day. But it's not easy when I see McClappy on the sideline. 

 

I might be wrong about this, but I don't think Beane has the power to fire McDermott. The same applies to McDermott firing Beane. Terry said both men report to him when they were hired. I think Terry is the only one who has the power to fire either of them.

[HamptonBillsfan]

I know it was only preseason but Sean is not building the kind of confidence you should have going into a season where rookies and 2nd year players will play an important role. What the hell was that last night? These guys looked confused and disinterested. Why were there so many receivers in another time zone. If you’re going to blitz can you possibly cause a QB hurry or get a hit god forbid. Does our front seven know you’re supposed to tackle RBs? If you’re not going to play starters, can these backups not embarrass the fan base. Aren’t these guys playing for roster spots. I noticed Beane watching from the press box looking stunned. These clueless backups look undisciplined and confused. This is our depth for rotation and replacement responsibilities. Hopefully Sean scares these guys out of their comfort zone because if not we’re going to pay the price and in Sean’s case, he should be gone, 

[BuffaloRebound]

Same chicken-$h!t un-aggressive defense that values guys being in the right spot instead of beating the guy across from them and actually making a play.  Andreesen, Hamlin, Codrington, and Dane Jackson have no business ever playing a meaningful regular season down.  Beane should be scouring the waiver wire and trade market to improve the last 5-6 spots on the defense or we’ll be looking at another year of the levi wallace’s, AJ Klein’s, and Damar Hamlins getting exposed in the playoffs.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

LMAO, stupid phone. Its corrected

[26TrapDraw]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Everybody knows that but were the Bills defenders actually told to drop back ten yards and just stand there? Is that really what the coaches said to them? You have to admit that it looked very odd. 

I have a feeling that they won't run one defensive alignment during the season that they ran last night.

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, 26TrapDraw said:

I have a feeling that they won't run one defensive alignment during the season that they ran last night.

That was an alignment? Looked to me like they were told to drop back and just stand there like statues even if the Bears receivers were six feet away from them. How is that a defense?