McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[Alphadawg7]

McD is not only better than several coaches on that list, but if him and those coaches he’s clearly better than were fired tomorrow, McD would be hired first.  
 

He should be around 6-8 on that list depending on one’s perspective, and a SB win moved him easily into the top 5.  

Edited 7 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Chandler#81]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

McD is not only better than several coaches on that list, but if him and those coaches he’s clearly better than were fired tomorrow, McD would be hired first.  
 

He should be around 6-8 on that list depending on one’s perspective, and a SB win moved him easily into the top 5.  

Agree. But he’s now stuck in the ‘can’t win the big game’ prison. Only a jailbreak will free him for consideration as Coach of the year

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, 14774 said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-top-returning-head-coaches-2025

 

Agree or disagree? He has his faults, but I think he fits in the Top 10 somewhere. 

 

He is better than guys on that list. 

7 hours ago, stevestojan said:

He lucked into Allen. 
 

There is nothing - in his scheme, his clock/game management, his decision making, or his “defensive mindset” that puts him in the top 20. 
 

Without Allen, he’s out of a job 4 years ago. 

 

There is plenty in his defensive scheme and in his leadership. Would he still be here without Josh? No probably not. But he broke the drought without him and as long as they found league average QB play McDermott would have had a 5 to 6 year run here and made the playoffs a couple more times. 

 

They are a contender because of Josh Allen. But give a Sean McDermott team even adequate Quarterbacking and reasonable defensive talent and you will find a way to win 8 to 10 games.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, stevestojan said:

 

I’m fine with you having your opinion. It just seems absolutely no one agrees with you by reading the replies. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, but it sure does point in that direction.
 

Again, without Josh, he’s nothing. And don’t even give me the Andy Dalton led team that got us to the playoffs as a sign of Clappy’s ability to lead a non-Josh team to the playoffs. Plus that year our strength of schedule was basically negative. 
 

You seem a bit over the top with your defense of a coach who is simply not good enough defensively to take the world’s best football player to the Super Bowl. It’s cool if your his brother or something but your passionate defense of him is a little odd. 

 

 

Nah. He's right. You're wrong. 

[billsbackto81]

I'd say he's between 5-10.

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I remember.

I remember going to the playoffs with the same record that we missed out on the playoffs twice during the drought.

 

I remember only having that record because we played the easiest schedule ever, facing Josh McCown, David Fales, Trevor Siemian, Jameis Winston, Jacoby Brissett, Derek Carr, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, and Jay Cutler.

 

I remember needing Andy Dalton to save us.

 

 

 

 

This is nothing against McD… just saying that year proves nothing imo.

 

These days lots of newly-hired HCs talk about "culture" and changing losing culture, but not many actually accomplish it in their first season.   McDermott did so ... and he did it before he had an all-world QB.

 

7 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If the Jets draft Allen, McDermott is a defensive coordinator 

 

If the Jests draft Allen, Allen is just another first round QB bust.

 

 

7 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

He was 41-55 as a HC before Brady arrived. Andy Reid was 11-13 in the playoffs before Mahomes arrived, McD has a losing record in games Josh Allen doesn't start in. If a coach isn't capable of approaching a similar status as they did with said HOF QB, is it not a reasonable conclusion to say the QB is likely driving more of the outcome than the HC?

 

Plenty of examples exist of HOF QB's with multiple HC's. How many HOF coaches without HOF QB's? It is possible to look at performance separately and draw some conclusions. All of which really don't support what you're saying. 

 

These stats prove that stats can be cherry-picked to seemingly prove anything.   You should look at the regular season records, playoff records, and win-loss records in games without their future HOF QBs for all three coaches to have a valid comparison.

 

6 hours ago, uticaclub said:

The roster he made the playoffs with were 9-7, 8-8 & 7-9 the three prior years, he didn't take over a bottom feeder

 

ROTFLMAO.    You obviously don't remember the Drought Era accurately.  The Bills back then were marked by mediocrity.  They had 3 or 4 seasons with really bad records, and 2 or so with 9-7 seasons, but mostly they managed to win 6-8 games.   What they did was find new ways to miss the playoffs, including losing the final game of the 2004 season when they lost to the Stillers' backups at home.

 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Because the QB gives them stability, not the other way around. Very few coaches raise the needle in a significant way. More can lower the needle in a signifigant way. I don't think McD lowers it by any stretch, but I also don't think he's one of the few that raise it.  Andy Reid, Sean McVay are two people. Maybe a couple more, but it's a very short list. 

 

So I think it is easier for Head Coaches to demonstrate where they raise the needle when they don't have a superstar QB. I agree with you totally that Quarterbacks have more impact on wins and losses than coaches. It has always been thus in my time watching the sport. And when you have one of those top of the range elite guys.... it's just harder to see the coaching impact because the QB impact smacks you in the face first. There is also a natural fan bias towards seeing that impact on offense - QBX played better under Y coach than under Z coach ergo Y coach moved the needle. Whereas because defenses do not run through one guy in the same way team X playing better defense under coach Y than coach Z doesn't get the same attention because there are eleven constituent parts and more movement within them year to year than QBs who tend to stay on teams for longer once they are established starters. 

 

But it is legitimate for people to hold against McDermott that he has had rosters with Championship calibre talent and not brought home a Championship. And until he does that it will hold him back from being given the benefit of the doubt in the same way as say a Mike Tomlin who has basically been spinning his wheels for years now but has two Superbowl appearances and one Lombardi in his back catalogue. 

 

7 hours ago, uticaclub said:

The roster he made the playoffs with were 9-7, 8-8 & 7-9 the three prior years, he didn't take over a bottom feeder

 

But he took over a dreadful culture. When he arrived it was the Rex Ryan madhouse and Doug Whaley's backroom manipulation. The 2017 roster was not a dumpster fire (though it was not quite as talented as the 2014-2016 rosters) but the locker room was. Only people who have had to do culture change realise how bleeping difficult it is. 

Edited 6 hours ago by GunnerBill

[Buffalo Boy]

9 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

 

I actually think the opposite. Having JA should cost you points because Josh Allen will Josh Allen regardless. Which is why I think Brian Billick was a stinking genius and best coach on the planet at the time he won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer (defense aside). 

At least 75% posters on here don’t seem to get this. 
No Josh Allen = .500-.600 coaching record for McD

[Gregg]

For a defensive minded coach his defense doesn't show up in big moments. He is still a good coach but not a great one. He gets credit for turning the Bills around from a POS organization to a winning one. He also deserves his share of the blame for the playoff failures. If the Bills had Bill coaching them, they would have a Lombardi or two by now. Bill's record speaks for itself when he has had an elite level franchise QB. Plus, he is a much better DC than Sean. Allen with a strong defense would definitely bring a championship to WNY.

Edited 5 hours ago by Gregg

[Augie]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

At least 75% posters on here don’t seem to get this. 
No Josh Allen = .500-.600 coaching record for McD

 

 

….said one guy’s opinion.  That 75% is a rather condescending and arbitrary number to throw out there. 

 

There are far too many unknowns to try to make this point, imo. Who is the replacement? We went to the playoffs without Josh, just a stop gap at QB. There is no way for us to know what some other universe might look like. 

 

 

.

Edited 5 hours ago by Augie

[WIDE LEFT]

When McD, in Houston game last year, had Allen throwing 3 passes out of his own end zone at end of game, allowing Houston to win game with field goal, Mike Greenberg commented “It may not be the worst decision made this season, but it will be the dumbest” I agreed. McD then went on to make the WORST decision of the season, 2nd & goal with less than 50 seconds, calling a timeout which insured that the Bills had to recover an onside kickoff  for a chance to tie or win game. Tom Brady, calling the game immediately said you just can’t do that. Eight years as head coach with a history of head scratching decisions- makes the dumbest and the worst decision(s) of the 2024 season, and we are wondering why he is not a top ten HC? 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

These days lots of newly-hired HCs talk about "culture" and changing losing culture, but not many actually accomplish it in their first season.   McDermott did so ... and he did it before he had an all-world QB.

 

 

I agree. And that is part of the reason why I have been a staunch supporter of keeping McD. It’s also why I stated (in the post you quoted) that my argument is not against McD, but rather against the argument that 2017 proves anything. Marrone and Mularkey both led us to 9-7 records - they just weren’t lucky enough to do so in a year where 9-7 meant a playoff berth. 

 

From another perspective: Rex Ryan went 8-8 with the same roster that McD went 9-7. 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

It is mind blowing reading some of the Anti McDermott comments.  Anything good that happens with the team happens in spite of McDermott.  Anything bad that happens with the team is because of McDermott.  

 

There is no logical explanation that justifies leaving McDermott off a top 10 coaches list.  The Bills have the 2nd best winning percentage over the last 5 years.  With a significant drop off to the #3 spot.  

[sunshynman]

I think it's simple. If the culture shift didn't happen, Allen doesn't have the room to grow into who he is. If he went to a team in full dysfunction, the expectations would not likely allow him to take the time to grow into a super star. 

 

For that McD gets credit. He makes the overall decisions, the coaching hires, the general flow. He knows the O is not his strong area, so he leaves his generals in charge of their platoons. He doesn't have that Reid/Mahomes relationship, but he has the calming presence to say, Allen - go be the best you!

 

Now he has some issues coaching, game day decisions mostly. But he has learned there over the years. I believe barring major injury; this is the year that the steady approach wins it all. We need the horses on D in the playoffs. Which means some great play by rookies and FA's. 

Edited 4 hours ago by sunshynman
grammer

[Lagoon Blues]

The thread has proven to me that we need a reaction that is something along the lines of "Maybe or Possibly"

[FireChans]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's not true.. people literally have created their own statistics 

 

Taking his last five losses.. and his points per game in those losses.. and then said his 33.2points per game allowed in his last five losses is the most in NFL history 

 

But guess what that was also a lie cuz I looked at Mike McCarthy's last five playoff losses and it's worse

 

Cherry picking his losses you can take the last five playoff losses from every coach and they're all 27+ to 32 points per game

 

You could cherry pick any coaches last five playoff losses and no coach is allowing 22 points per game in a loss lol 

Mike McCarthy doesn’t coach defense lol

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

 

….said one guy’s opinion.  That 75% is a rather condescending and arbitrary number to throw out there. 

 

There are far too many unknowns to try to make this point, imo. Who is the replacement? We went to the playoffs without Josh, just a stop gap at QB. There is no way for us to know what some other universe might look like. 

 

 

.

There is a way to know.

 

Before Josh was routinely in MVP conversations, McDermott’s winning% was .520.

 

He is a good coach. Josh is the reason he has an elite winning percentage.

[SoMAn]

Without reading through the 4 pages of this thread, has anyone yet asked/answered the question:

What is McDermott's head-to-head record against the more highly-rated coaches?

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

Without reading through the 4 pages of this thread, has anyone yet asked/answered the question:

What is McDermott's head-to-head record against the more highly-rated coaches?

 

Regular season pretty good. Playoffs not so much.

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There is a way to know.

 

Before Josh was routinely in MVP conversations, McDermott’s winning% was .520.

 

He is a good coach. Josh is the reason he has an elite winning percentage.

 

We are not that far apart, to be honest. I just give McD more credit than you do. McD would have improved upon that winning % given a little more time without Josh imo, but we are back to speculation.