NewEra Posted September 30 Posted September 30 (edited) 10 minutes ago, 90sBills said: Especially if you factor in the Bills taking DeWayne Carter with the 3rd pick from KC and KC used the 4th pick they got from the Bills on Jaden Hicks, who is their starting safety. How does Kincaid not making that catch in the AFCCG related to Coleman and Worthy? One guy was instrumental in helping his team in the postseason season while the other guy was blanketed by a db whenever a ball was thrown his way in the playoffs. Guess which one Buffalo got? If he catches it and we eventually won that game and made the SB, it would be advantage us. Keon has better stats plus a SB birth + Keon is an asset as run blocker. But as it stands, KC beat us and worthy played a big part in keeping us from the SB, so I can see how people would say they are currently winning the trade. They’ve achieved more. I’m anticipating Keon being a key part of something special that will get us a Lombardi I don’t think Keon is the same guy as he was last year in the playoffs and he’s likely to just get even better. Room to grow as a WR Edited September 30 by NewEra 1 Quote
90sBills Posted September 30 Posted September 30 1 minute ago, NewEra said: If he catches it and we eventually won that game and made the SB, it would be advantage us. Keon has better stats plus a SB birth + Keon is an asset as run blocker. But as it stands, KC beat us and worthy played a big part in keeping us from the SB, so I can see how people would say they are currently winning the trade. They’ve achieved more. I’m anticipating Keon being a key part of something special that will get us a Lombardi I still have hope for Coleman. It’s still very early in his career. The injury last year set him back and he wasn’t quite as effective when he returned, especially in the playoffs. I just didn’t see any correlation with your point about Kincaid to this matter. Worthy clearly did more for KC’s offense last season than Coleman did for Buffalo’s offense. Let’s see how Coleman develops this season. If he breaks out no one would complain around here. Well…unless he drops a pass to lose a playoff game against KC…oh boy. 1 1 Quote
NewEra Posted September 30 Posted September 30 13 minutes ago, 90sBills said: I still have hope for Coleman. It’s still very early in his career. The injury last year set him back and he wasn’t quite as effective when he returned, especially in the playoffs. I just didn’t see any correlation with your point about Kincaid to this matter. Worthy clearly did more for KC’s offense last season than Coleman did for Buffalo’s offense. Let’s see how Coleman develops this season. If he breaks out no one would complain around here. Well…unless he drops a pass to lose a playoff game against KC…oh boy. That’s fine. I see the correlation. 👍🏻 Quote
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted October 7 Posted October 7 What in earth did Coleman do ?? Keon is now a disciplinary problem ? Does anyone have any inside information? Quote
Bruffalo Posted October 7 Posted October 7 1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: What in earth did Coleman do ?? Keon is now a disciplinary problem ? Does anyone have any inside information? Likely a overblown story, McD is so bad at this kind of media stuff when he’s cagey. I bet he was late to a meeting or something stupid. 1 4 Quote
JaCrispy Posted October 7 Posted October 7 4 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: What in earth did Coleman do ?? Keon is now a disciplinary problem ? Does anyone have any inside information? Great job Beane… When you acquire a pro bowl caliber player with maturity issues, you can deal with it because his play makes up for it. But when you acquire a slow, mediocre WR, that can’t separate, and has maturity issues, then it could become a nuisance… 1 2 2 Quote
Ray Stonada Posted October 7 Posted October 7 I know I'm gonna get roasted by some of you but we need a weapon, someone who the defense has to remember every play, in addition to Cook (who they take off the field too much). Worthy is no Randy Moss, but his speed constitutes a weapon. Defenses have to account for it. I like Keon but he is not a player who endangers defenses like that. 3 Quote
SunDSolar Posted Tuesday at 08:09 AM Posted Tuesday at 08:09 AM The amount of glaze a player gets who has yet to record a 100 yd reciving day in the regular season in his career is crazy And before you say he had 157yds in the super bowl. The guy had 2rec for 9yds with the score at 34-0 late in the 3rd quarter 1 Quote
Goin Breakdown Posted Tuesday at 01:43 PM Posted Tuesday at 01:43 PM 12 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: What in earth did Coleman do ?? Keon is now a disciplinary problem ? Does anyone have any inside information? So he's even slow to mature? Great 8 Quote
jahnyc Posted Tuesday at 01:50 PM Posted Tuesday at 01:50 PM What I don't understand is why Worthy seems to be open much of the time and Coleman can't get separation from DBs, given the differences in their physical builds. Is it KC's offensive scheming that puts Worthy in positions where he can avoid being jammed at the line of scrimmage? Is it Worthy's speed and quickness that gets him room to operate versus Coleman's inability to get separation because he lacks those traits, or is it something else? Quote
Low Positive Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago Preemptively bumping this. Youse guys will need this tonight. 2 Quote
sven233 Posted 6 hours ago Posted 6 hours ago I said it leading up to the draft. I said it the night of the draft. And I'll continue to say it now. The problem is not picking Worthy over Coleman. The problem is giving the Chiefs the one piece they were looking for. That said.....did I have Worthy rated higher than Coleman? Yes. Should we have picked him over Coleman? Yes. If everything fell the way it did on draft night, would Worthy be a Bill? No. Still have concerns about his size and ability to hold up over a full season. Also, it seems maybe there are some character concerns there as well, but we are not privy to all of that information. Regardless, I had different ideas of how to handle WR that night. Trading up a few spots for BTJ. Exploring a trade into the top 10 for one of the big 3. Exploring a trade for an established WR. But, if it all played out the way it did and none of those were viable options, Ladd McConkey would be on this team right now in this "Everybody Eats" system. The fact is, I had Coleman rated as a late 3rd or early 4th rounder. So, he wouldn't have even been on my radar. But when you are in the development of a system where getting the ball to the open guy is the only thing that matters, then you best believe I am drafting the guy that can get open on a regular basis. The argument against McConkey was that he was primarily a slot guy and we had Shakir. My argument is, if you aren't going to get a burner or someone to take the top off the defense and want to live in the short to intermediate areas of the field anyway, then you can never have too many slot guys like Shakir and McConkey! Just line them up wherever and let them get open and have Allen find them. Seriously, if your entire offensive system is going to be about guys getting open and catching the ball, we drafted the last WR we should have. But, it's all hindsight now. We're stuck with what we have. It's not that Coleman is a complete disaster as a player. He does have certain skills that you would like to have in your WR room. But it should be as a 3rd or 4th WR option, not as a WR logging a majority of your snaps. But at the end of the day, this is not about Coleman vs Worthy. It's about the decision to trade with KC in general and pick of the WR we did make for the system we were trying to install. Neither look like great decisions as of now. 2 1 3 Quote
Since1981 Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago We knew they BOTH were available. Beane (Josh, McD) made the CHOICE for jump ball guy vs. speed. I have wanted 1 speedster since Brown. Quote
thenorthremembers Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago Its likely Worthy ends up having a worse year statistically than Coleman. That said, the optics of the trade will continue to haunt Buffalo until they are both out of the league. 2 Quote
gobills404 Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago (edited) Worthy had a whopping 26 yards from scrimmage. Thank god we bumped this thread. Edited 4 hours ago by gobills404 1 2 1 Quote
NewEra Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 41 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Its likely Worthy ends up having a worse year statistically than Coleman. That said, the optics of the trade will continue to haunt Buffalo until they are both out of the league. They won’t if we win a Super Bowl or two. So many around here already discounting us winning a Super Bowl. If we win a Super Bowl, I think drafting Keon and letting KC have worthy is a win. SBs aren’t guaranteed and 1 in the bag is the win. Quote
folz Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, gobills404 said: Worthy had a whopping 26 yards from scrimmage. Thank god we bumped this thread. On the year, Worthy is averaging 36.25 receiving yards per game. If you include his rushing stats, he is averaging 49.5 scrimmage yards per game and 0.25 TDs/game. He has 1 TD on the year and missed two games due to injury. Keon is averaging 45.20 receiving yards per game and 0.40 TDs/game this season. He has 2 TDs on the year. Keon may not be setting the world on fire, but are people really still lamenting over a player who is averaging 36 receiving yards per game? Career update---Regular Season (prior to Bills week 6 Monday night game): Games Targets Receptions Rec yards Rec TDs Catch% 20+-yard recs Yds/Reception Yds/Target Total scrimmage yards Total TDs Keon: 18 86 50 782 6 58.1 15 15.6 9.1 791 6 Xavier: 20 116 70 763 6 60.3 6 10.9 6.6 914 9 If Keon hits just his current career average of 44 yards on Monday night versus Atlanta, he will have 826 total scrimmage yards---just 88 yards fewer than Worthy, but also in one fewer games (and with approx. 26 fewer targets than Worthy). Again, I think both players can be good as they mature. But, I'm having a hard time understanding those that think Worthy is sooooo superior to Keon at this point when looking at their stats head-to-head. Edited 3 hours ago by folz 2 Quote
Figster Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 24 minutes ago, folz said: On the year, Worthy is averaging 36.25 receiving yards per game. If you include his rushing stats, he is averaging 49.5 scrimmage yards per game and 0.25 TDs/game. He has 1 TD on the year and missed two games due to injury. Keon is averaging 45.20 receiving yards per game and 0.40 TDs/game this season. He has 2 TDs on the year. Keon may not be setting the world on fire, but are people really still lamenting over a player who is averaging 36 receiving yards per game? Career update---Regular Season (prior to Bills week 6 Monday night game): Games Targets Receptions Rec yards Rec TDs Catch% 20+-yard recs Yds/Reception Yds/Target Total scrimmage yards Total TDs Keon: 18 86 50 782 6 58.1 15 15.6 9.1 791 6 Xavier: 20 116 70 763 6 60.3 6 10.9 6.6 914 9 If Keon hits just his current career average of 44 yards on Monday night versus Atlanta, he will have 826 total scrimmage yards---just 88 yards fewer than Worthy, but also in one fewer games (and with approx. 26 fewer targets than Worthy). Again, I think both players can be good as they mature. But, I'm having a hard time understanding those that think Worthy is sooooo superior to Keon at this point when looking at their stats head-to-head. This post might also be useful in @Pete Keon WTF thread🤷♂️ Quote
Buffalo Junction Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 3 hours ago, sven233 said: I said it leading up to the draft. I said it the night of the draft. And I'll continue to say it now. The problem is not picking Worthy over Coleman. The problem is giving the Chiefs the one piece they were looking for. That said.....did I have Worthy rated higher than Coleman? Yes. Should we have picked him over Coleman? Yes. If everything fell the way it did on draft night, would Worthy be a Bill? No. Still have concerns about his size and ability to hold up over a full season. Also, it seems maybe there are some character concerns there as well, but we are not privy to all of that information. Regardless, I had different ideas of how to handle WR that night. Trading up a few spots for BTJ. Exploring a trade into the top 10 for one of the big 3. Exploring a trade for an established WR. But, if it all played out the way it did and none of those were viable options, Ladd McConkey would be on this team right now in this "Everybody Eats" system. The fact is, I had Coleman rated as a late 3rd or early 4th rounder. So, he wouldn't have even been on my radar. But when you are in the development of a system where getting the ball to the open guy is the only thing that matters, then you best believe I am drafting the guy that can get open on a regular basis. The argument against McConkey was that he was primarily a slot guy and we had Shakir. My argument is, if you aren't going to get a burner or someone to take the top off the defense and want to live in the short to intermediate areas of the field anyway, then you can never have too many slot guys like Shakir and McConkey! Just line them up wherever and let them get open and have Allen find them. Seriously, if your entire offensive system is going to be about guys getting open and catching the ball, we drafted the last WR we should have. But, it's all hindsight now. We're stuck with what we have. It's not that Coleman is a complete disaster as a player. He does have certain skills that you would like to have in your WR room. But it should be as a 3rd or 4th WR option, not as a WR logging a majority of your snaps. But at the end of the day, this is not about Coleman vs Worthy. It's about the decision to trade with KC in general and pick of the WR we did make for the system we were trying to install. Neither look like great decisions as of now. Two aspects you’re missing with how Coleman fits into everybody eats and separation are 1. Everybody eats includes the running backs, WR screens, and relies on YAC. Having WRs that can effectively block downfield adds to that. 2. Larger WRs that can high-point the ball is a form of separation, especially in the red zone where speed is mitigated. It’s certainly debatable if those particular skill fits were worth a trade down and high 2nd round pick when you could get that from a Mack Hollins. That said, neither Kincaid nor any of the other WRs on this roster were proven commodities with those traits. That aside, I wasn’t particularly fond of Worthy or Coleman pre draft. Quote
Ray Stonada Posted 1 hour ago Posted 1 hour ago Stats aside, when Worthy is playing KC’s offense looks different. Much more explosive—he seems to open the space underneath for all those screens and outs that they run. Quote
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