JohnNord Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 47 minutes ago, Saratoga Leo said: That is what they said in Kansas City last year. It helps having one of the best QB’s, TE’s, and offensive play callers of all time. It’s an exception to the rule. Lack of WR talent is going to hurt the team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 9 hours ago, MR8 said: Not how it works... Honestly a new deal helps the bills because we have been restructuring his deal to create space year over year. His $60M in 25 is a boat anchor cap wise, and $59 in 26 is just as bad. If they restructure in 25 to alleviate some of that pressure, it kicks to the next years again. '25 isn't when they "have to" make something work, they can easily kick the can in '25 and worry about it all in '26. That's the beauty of having him with 4 more years still. But now is when you consider being proactive so you can lock up your franchise QB longer, while structuring the deal to give you 4-5 more years or flexibility rather than just year to year can kicking. Doesn't have to be done, but it's worth considering for sure. And to your silly headline point of "he can get a new contract when he gets a ring", what are we gonna do, let him walk in 2029 if he doesn't?? Lol Allen is physically the best most impressive QB in the NFL. Mahomes is better because he wins, but Allen is right there with what he can do on the football field. He's easily the best in franchise history, and his pooping on NFL records along the way. Dude is already on track for all timer and HOF if his career stays on this trajectory. Yes we a want a SB or 8, but that doesn't detract from how amazing he is. Remember, Manning was drafted in '98 and didn't win a SB til 2006... He's still top 3 QBs ever. Josh is young and has at least a decade left in him, plenty of time for at least one SB. Acting like he isn't worth a contract because he doesn't have a ring is just plain stupid and simplistic. I get we would extend him to gain cap relief and I also get that we would never let him walk in FA. I was responding to the post that we would need to pay him because he has fallen down the pecking order in terms of top paid QBs. That’s what happens when you sign a long term contract. Mahomes has won 3 Super Bowls, 2 of which came after he signed his current contract. Yet, Mahomes is the 9th highest paid QB and I don’t see him asking for a new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 13 minutes ago, Saint Doug said: I get we would extend him to gain cap relief and I also get that we would never let him walk in FA. I was responding to the post that we would need to pay him because he has fallen down the pecking order in terms of top paid QBs. That’s what happens when you sign a long term contract. Mahomes has won 3 Super Bowls, 2 of which came after he signed his current contract. Yet, Mahomes is the 9th highest paid QB and I don’t see him asking for a new contract. Something to keep in mind regarding Mahomes and probably Allen: “Mahomes signed a revised contract in September of 2023 that moved cash forward from later years, effectively giving him a raise of $48.3 million from 2023-26. The reworked deal also added two void years in 2032 and 2033 and changed his incentives to escalators to help create roughly $2.5 million in 2023 cap space.“ https://overthecap.com/player/patrick-mahomes/5594 The Bills similarly moved cash forward into this season for Allen. He is getting $60M cash in 2024, but “only” $14.5M in 2025. I’m not sure if that will get reworked or not - or even if there is an understanding with his agent about doing something. I’d think the Bills would be very happy to have Allen play on the current deal, but I don’t know how realistic that is. https://overthecap.com/player/josh-allen/6892 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 21 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Something to keep in mind regarding Mahomes and probably Allen: “Mahomes signed a revised contract in September of 2023 that moved cash forward from later years, effectively giving him a raise of $48.3 million from 2023-26. The reworked deal also added two void years in 2032 and 2033 and changed his incentives to escalators to help create roughly $2.5 million in 2023 cap space.“ https://overthecap.com/player/patrick-mahomes/5594 The Bills similarly moved cash forward into this season for Allen. He is getting $60M cash in 2024, but “only” $14.5M in 2025. I’m not sure if that will get reworked or not - or even if there is an understanding with his agent about doing something. I’d think the Bills would be very happy to have Allen play on the current deal, but I don’t know how realistic that is. https://overthecap.com/player/josh-allen/6892 I imagine Josh will rework his deal 2 times by 2030 as the cap just jumps and jumps to insane levels. The cap currently is 255 million but the cap by 2030 is projected to be 383 million or about a 128 million jump in just 7 seasons or a jump of about 18.2 million a season. I think by 2026 he will do a rework and then get that second "bite at the apple" for a final big contract around 2029. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: Unless a CB or pass rusher comes a available, I wouldn't touch it. I get fans keep praying for some big trade, but beane flat said not this year. I don’t know that we make a trade, but I 100% think he’s using some of it one of the positions you just outlined. I think they’ll monitor Von and see what he looks like .. and if need be, make a call to Ogbah, Clowney etc. Could also see depth a CB. Trade for a WR or a signing like Justin Simmons are what I’d want, but think are unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I said if no more spending. Can add in the Practice Squad money, which is at most $1 or $2 million, if that. Still leaves us over $20m. And again... I said if no more moves and we roll over the money we don't spend into next year. If we spend ALL our Tre White money and our remaining CAP, we'll still have $14m in CAP space plus the $8.5m if we cut Von with only Spencer Brown as our in-house remaining "big" UFA. Minimum weekly salary for PS players is $12,500 a week for 18 weeks. That $225,000 per player. 16 PS players equal $3.6M for the season. It will be more because vets get $16,800 per week. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-practice-squad-salary-eligibility-rules-2023/vuvavtn3mbkq68spwkb5k8pz Edit: Added link. Edited May 15 by ColoradoBills 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 It needs to be at least... 3 times bigger than this! What is this, a cap for signing ANTS?! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I don’t really understand the people hoping to light future cap on fire to make the team marginally better this season. The defense opening day is going to look 50% different than opening day last season, and a lot of the holes are being filled with youth. It’s a retool year, and not a year to push all of our chips in. Do you really want to be the Saints? Letting good vets go every offseason because they have to do cap gymnastics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Anyone complaining about CAP space next year... Overthecap projects us at $14m next season. If Buffalo rolls over the Tre White extension without doing anything with it next month minus paying the rookie class we get about $9m. Plus everyone thinks we're cutting Von next offseason... if we do we get $8.5m in CAP savings. Over $31m in CAP space right there. Plus... could still easily restructure Oliver, Taron and Josh for a lot more money. And as far as FA go... the big one is really only Spencer Brown. Beane has set this team up for the future! Yes, next year will be much much better than this year. But there's no reason to think we will not do something this year with the Tre White money, or rather with a very significant part of it. Also way too early to know what we will do with Von. We might indeed cut him. Or not. It'll depend largely on his performance this year. Spotrac has us as #28 in cap money in 2025. Overthecap has us at #26. Yes, we can do some things to get more. So can other teams. Doing those restructures just pushes things down the road. We'll doubtless do some of them. But the more we do, the more we go down the road towards another year like this one. It's a tough balance for Beane. He's shown himself to be pretty good at it, but not perfect. The Von pickup in particular was always a high-risk high-reward proposition. The way he was playing when healthy in his first year here might well have brought us a title. But he didn't stay healthy. He might find himself doing something like that again. Cap money is going to continue being a real concern. On the other hand, it shouldn't again be as bad anytime soon as it is this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Can we play the 2024 season first and see how that goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 12 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand the people hoping to light future cap on fire to make the team marginally better this season. The defense opening day is going to look 50% different than opening day last season, and a lot of the holes are being filled with youth. It’s a retool year, and not a year to push all of our chips in. Do you really want to be the Saints? Letting good vets go every offseason because they have to do cap gymnastics? Spending available cap space is nowhere close to “pushing all our chips in”. Regardless, writing off a prime year of Josh Allen is absolute malpractice. Next year we will still have some cap space, but more importantly, will be able to infuse the roster with another massive influx of young, cheap talent with our 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4 etc., draft capital. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 5 hours ago, JohnNord said: It helps having one of the best QB’s, TE’s, and offensive play callers of all time. It’s an exception to the rule. Lack of WR talent is going to hurt the team. KC did NOT have one of the best TEs of all time last year. Kelce is on the downslope. Still top three or so in today's NFL, but our TE appears headed in that direction, and fast. Can't be sure yet. But that's the way it looks. I'm sure everyone's tired of this stat, but Kincaid was 4th all time for TE rookie catches and 10th all time for TE rookie receiving yards. But while Mahomes is certainly top two in the league, IMO so is Allen. It is indeed an exception to the rule, as are the Bills. While lack of WR talent could certainly hurt, it's way too early to be as sure as you are here. Just as Mahomes spread it around a ton and was really productive the past two years without a great deal of WR talent, Allen could very possibly manage the same kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: KC did NOT have one of the best TEs of all time last year. Kelce is on the downslope. Still top three or so in today's NFL, but our TE appears headed in that direction, and fast. Can't be sure yet. But that's the way it looks. I'm sure everyone's tired of this stat, but Kincaid was 4th all time for TE rookie catches and 10th all time for TE rookie receiving yards. But while Mahomes is certainly top two in the league, IMO so is Allen. It is indeed an exception to the rule, as are the Bills. While lack of WR talent could certainly hurt, it's way too early to be as sure as you are here. Just as Mahomes spread it around a ton and was really productive the past two years without a great deal of WR talent, Allen could very possibly manage the same kind of thing. We’ll see… as much as I love Josh, I’m not putting Allen in that tier yet. I think the way Beane handled the WR did a tremendous disservice to Josh as QB and can almost guarantee that next year we’ll be talking about trading up to draft WR’s….again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 8 minutes ago, SCBills said: Spending available cap space is nowhere close to “pushing all our chips in”. Regardless, writing off a prime year of Josh Allen is absolute malpractice. Next year we will still have some cap space, but more importantly, will be able to infuse the roster with another massive influx of young, cheap talent with our 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4 etc., draft capital. Spending available cap space, depending on how you do it, absolutely can be pushing all your chips in. And this is nowhere close to "writing off a prime year of Josh Allen," not even close. That's pure nonsense. It's not a mistake that Vegas has the Bills, with the current lineup and situation, tied for the 4th best odds to win this year's Super Bowl. That's anything but writing off a year. Ridiculous! Agreed that next year's draft capital, and better cap situation, are reasons for hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Just now, JohnNord said: We’ll see… as much as I love Josh, I’m not putting Allen in that tier yet. I think the way Beane handled the WR did a tremendous disservice to Josh as QB and can almost guarantee that next year we’ll be talking about trading up to draft WR’s….again. Josh isn't in the top two in the league? Um, OK, I guess. I think he is. If he isn't, he's damn close. And while I'm as sure as you are that fans will be talking about trading up to draft WRs again, any but a small tradeup was a ridiculous idea this year and will almost certainly be equally so next. Yes, fans talk, and Allen fans constantly talk about receivers. Doesn't mean it makes sense. Beane made it clear that he didn't even make calls about those top three, but on the boards they were close to a majority preference. People will prefer shiny baubles, doesn't mean they're a good idea. The bottom line is that what Josh Allen needs is not a great WR room. It's a great team. If more and better WRs are a part of that, wonderful. But history shows very very clearly that you don't need a terrific WR room to win Super Bowls. Yes, the Chiefs didn't have a great WR room, but that's not a wild exception. A large majority of SB winners compensate for a WR room that's solid with an excellent QB and a really good roster, including the defensive side. And in the past two decades or so, a very good TE on top of the WRs, and often good receiving backs as well. Both of which we appear to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 11 minutes ago, JohnNord said: We’ll see… as much as I love Josh, I’m not putting Allen in that tier yet. I think the way Beane handled the WR did a tremendous disservice to Josh as QB and can almost guarantee that next year we’ll be talking about trading up to draft WR’s….again. What tier ? There’s a strong argument he’s QB2, and top 5 isn’t arguable, there’s less space between Mahomes and Allen than Allen and whoever you want to put at 3 IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 5 hours ago, Saint Doug said: I get we would extend him to gain cap relief and I also get that we would never let him walk in FA. I was responding to the post that we would need to pay him because he has fallen down the pecking order in terms of top paid QBs. That’s what happens when you sign a long term contract. Mahomes has won 3 Super Bowls, 2 of which came after he signed his current contract. Yet, Mahomes is the 9th highest paid QB and I don’t see him asking for a new contract. The mahomes contract was smoke and mirrors like most NFL deals ... It was 10 year extension making it a 12 year deal but it was truly a 5 year extension (7 year deal) almost all guarantees are done in 2025... Yes he will want a new deal, and they will give it to him. All the remaining years are HUGE cap hits with no guarantees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saratoga Leo Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Josh isn't in the top two in the league? Um, OK, I guess. I think he is. If he isn't, he's damn close. And while I'm as sure as you are that fans will be talking about trading up to draft WRs again, any but a small tradeup was a ridiculous idea this year and will almost certainly be equally so next. Yes, fans talk, and Allen fans constantly talk about receivers. Doesn't mean it makes sense. Beane made it clear that he didn't even make calls about those top three, but on the boards they were close to a majority preference. People will prefer shiny baubles, doesn't mean they're a good idea. The bottom line is that what Josh Allen needs is not a great WR room. It's a great team. If more and better WRs are a part of that, wonderful. But history shows very very clearly that you don't need a terrific WR room to win Super Bowls. Yes, the Chiefs didn't have a great WR room, but that's not a wild exception. A large majority of SB winners compensate for a WR room that's solid with an excellent QB and a really good roster, including the defensive side. And in the past two decades or so, a very good TE on top of the WRs, and often good receiving backs as well. Both of which we appear to have. Josh proved he does not need a great WR room last year. From November 1st through the playoffs (9 games, Bills went 7 - 2), Davis had 14 catches. 6 in the PHL game, so 8 catches in the other 8 games. Diggs in my opinion gave up on the team. I have never seen a receiver go in for one play then raise his hand to go out as many times as Diggs did at the end of the year. He sure appeared to not give a sh*t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 On 5/14/2024 at 3:38 AM, Doc Brown said: Good news. We can structure Aiyuk's new contract accordingly post June 1st after the trade. Aiyuk changed his name to Valdez-Scantling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 17 hours ago, JohnNord said: It helps having one of the best QB’s, TE’s, and offensive play callers of all time. It’s an exception to the rule. Lack of WR talent is going to hurt the team. Our QB is hardly a slouch and I'm not going to predict Kelce levels for Kincaid, but he's promising as a top 5 TE and possible first option and we have a better TE2 and better pass-catching RBs. We also don't know how the WRs will play this year. Diggs and Davis were doing very little during the drive to the AFC East lead. Yes, Diggs was drawing coverage, but even there, one of the Cover 1 creators cited a stat where the team had a better EPA when Diggs was not on the field. The WR room may not be bad, just different. There seems to be a plan to me: add some upside tall receivers, a speedy WR who was one of the top with separation. Both FA period WR signings had their best season under Brady. It portends to be a very different and interesting offense. Or you could be right. But dismissing it out of hand is not painting the whole picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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