Do You Like What Beane Did in the First Round?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

I get that, but each trade is in a vacuum with individual circumstances.  And in this case, the correct move was to strip KC of a 3rd as there was nothing Bills could to keep KC from getting a top WR prospect with top end speed and more than likely they still get the same player anyway.  
 

If Bills were picking 12th and we gave KC a shot at an elite prospect that was head and shoulders above the other ones on the board, then yes, don’t do that trade.  
 

But in this case, taking away their 3rd was a win for us in every way you can analyze the trade.

 

What if one of the other teams calling wanted Worthy? It isn't definitely the case that the only way to keep him from KC was to pick him. And I'm not even that fussed by Worthy particularly. I think he is another WR2 and KC has Rice and Hollywood already that I think fit that criteria (Rice maybe a lower end #1 I suppose, let's see). It isn't about the outcome so much as the process to me. My principle is I'm not doing anything I think might help KC. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

What if one of the other teams calling wanted Worthy? It isn't definitely the case that the only way to keep him from KC was to pick him. And I'm not even that fussed by Worthy particularly. I think he is another WR2 and KC has Rice and Hollywood already that I think fit that criteria (Rice maybe a lower end #1 I suppose, let's see). It isn't about the outcome so much as the process to me. My principle is I'm not doing anything I think might help KC. 

I think SF was taking Worthy

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

And we KNOW Beane had other calls. Do we KNOW that those teams were calling because they wanted Worthy? No. But the Chiefs was not the only offer. I don't buy the "the only way to keep him out of the Chiefs grasp was to pick him" narrative as though it is fact. It may well be the case but we don't know that. 

 

What we can reasonably guess is that the Chiefs offered more than the other callers.

 

Edited April 26 by Beck Water

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And we KNOW Beane had other calls. Do we KNOW that those teams were calling because they wanted Worthy? No. But the Chiefs was not the only offer. I don't buy the "the only way to keep him out of the Chiefs grasp was to pick him" narrative as though it is fact. It may well be the case but we don't know that. 

Legette is your 4th WR on your board.  My criticism is he has a lot to work on to succeed as a WR1 at next level and felt better taking him round 2.

 

However, even I would say Legette in KC is a LOT scarier than Worthy who is no where near the same type of player Hill is as people are making it out to be.  
 

If there was a place that I felt Legette could reach his potential it’s KC.  And him at his potential is a nightmare scenario.  
 

So if KC misses on Worthy what’s stopping them from taking someone way scarier in Legette?

 

And man, do I feel bad for Legette.  Carolina was a terrible spot for him and I think it decreases his chances of reaching his potential.  But him in KC would have been worse than Worthy by a lot IMHO.

 

And quite frankly so would have McConkey, Mitchell and Franklin.  

[dpberr]

I voted yes because he did not draft athletes with low football production (Chop Robinson, Marshawn Kneeland), or take a one year wonder who's 95% athlete, 5% football player (e.g. Legette).

 

I probably wouldn't have done business with the Chiefs, but it was a solid business decision. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think SF was taking Worthy

I mean it’s possible, but I honestly don’t, from what I hear is that they loved Pearsall.  Worthy does not at all fit Lynch style of player.  I kept telling people after the combine not to sleep on Pearsall, he had one of the best combines of any WR.  He is much more the type of player SF looks for compared to Worthy.  

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What if one of the other teams calling wanted Worthy? It isn't definitely the case that the only way to keep him from KC was to pick him. And I'm not even that fussed by Worthy particularly. I think he is another WR2 and KC has Rice and Hollywood already that I think fit that criteria (Rice maybe a lower end #1 I suppose, let's see). It isn't about the outcome so much as the process to me. My principle is I'm not doing anything I think might help KC. 

 

And that's a fine principle.  

 

Let's suppose San Francisco had Worthy ahead of Pearsall on their board, while Beane (right or wrong) has 0 interest in Worthy.  They have a 3rd round grade on him, say.  So, what if Dallas or the Ravens trade with KC?  KC still gets Worthy, and we don't get their 3rd round pick.  KC has gotten a lot of meat and potatoes out of their recent 3rd round picks.

So let's see, in that scenario, KC helps themselves and we get nothing for high-mindedly holding out, instead of taking their 3rd round pick (which presumably also helps us)

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What if one of the other teams calling wanted Worthy? It isn't definitely the case that the only way to keep him from KC was to pick him. And I'm not even that fussed by Worthy particularly. I think he is another WR2 and KC has Rice and Hollywood already that I think fit that criteria (Rice maybe a lower end #1 I suppose, let's see). It isn't about the outcome so much as the process to me. My principle is I'm not doing anything I think might help KC. 

But we didn’t “help” KC.  We reduced their drafting power and took away a pick they need as they have a lot of other holes so they can get a WR who wasn’t even the scariest option for them with at least 5 other WRs they could have taken 4 picks later, including likely the one they drafted.  And in doing so, we helped us with more draft ammo to try and improve our team to get past them.

 

This notion we helped them is just not accurate in this specific trade scenario IMHO.  And it should be your opinion too given you don’t think Worthy was the best choice and they lost a 3rd in taking him.

 

[Success]

For what it's worth - I went to one of KC's boards after the Worthy pick, and I'd say at least half the sentiments were "we could have gotten Worthy at 32," and a good portion were "why did we trade up and not take Mitchell?"

 

[Process]

If Bills take Mitchell at 33 the feeling is going to be a lot different. A lot of people had Mitchell>Worthy. Will go from "why did the Bills give the Chiefs Worthy" to "why would the chiefs trade up and give up value to take a worse WR."

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I mean it’s possible, but I honestly don’t, from what I hear is that they loved Pearsall.  Worthy does not at all fit Lynch style of player.  I kept telling people after the combine not to sleep on Pearsall, he had one of the best combines of any WR.  He is much more the type of player SF looks for compared to Worthy.  

I’m a Pearsall fan. My thinking was more Shanahan than Lynch. Imagine what that guy could do with Worthy? That’s the same reason I didn’t want him in KC. Worthy is dangerous in the right offense. 

[Búfalo Blanco]

If I were a GM in the NFL, what Beane did last night would be a strategy I employ most off-seasons. I’’d trade down when possible, stockpile picks and plan for next year’s draft as well. There are certainly times where I’d stay put or possibly move up, if I needed an elite player at a position, QB, etc. But I’d generally be happy to deal with other teams and increase opportunities to bring in more cheap, young talent. 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Legette is your 4th WR on your board.  My criticism is he has a lot to work on to succeed as a WR1 at next level and felt better taking him round 2.

 

However, even I would say Legette in KC is a LOT scarier than Worthy who is no where near the same type of player Hill is as people are making it out to be.  
 

If there was a place that I felt Legette could reach his potential it’s KC.  And him at his potential is a nightmare scenario.  
 

So if KC misses on Worthy what’s stopping them from taking someone way scarier in Legette?

 

And man, do I feel bad for Legette.  Carolina was a terrible spot for him and I think it decreases his chances of reaching his potential.  But him in KC would have been worse than Worthy by a lot IMHO.

 

And quite frankly so would have McConkey, Mitchell and Franklin.  

 

But we don't know that KC liked all those guys. We now know that Beane didn't like Legette or Worthy. So why presume KC liked everyone? I'm not saying the Bills had the power to stop KC drafting good players. Clearly we don't. I just as a matter of principle while they are our main competitor am not super pleased about helping them. I accept it helped us re-stock our day 2 cupboard. That's a plus. But overall the risk that you help them draft a difference maker isn't worth the value back IMO. And as @NoSaint says if it works out in the worst possible way for the Bills it will put major pressure on Beane. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I’d like to see the Bills use some of the later picks on vets, to move up or to move into next year’s draft. I don’t want the Bills drafting more than 6 guys. They just don’t have the roster space.

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Josh is in the prime of his career, and he has no weapons. What Beane did was unacceptable.

Mahomes is in the prime of his career and won 2 Super Bowls with less weapons than the Bills had. Weapons have never been the problem for us.

[T master]

I didn't mind him trading out of the first round with the Chiefs although i hope it don't wind up biting the Bills in the butt . The second trade down with the Panthers i kind of wish Beane wouldn't have done that trade & gotten Leggette but now it's to late for that .

 

I believe tonight Beane will get either McConkey or Mitchell or both seeing as they got 2 second round picks but i do like that he got a third round pick . 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But we don't know that KC liked all those guys. We now know that Beane didn't like Legette or Worthy. So why presume KC liked everyone? I'm not saying the Bills had the power to stop KC drafting good players. Clearly we don't. I just as a matter of principle while they are our main competitor am not super pleased about helping them. I accept it helped us re-stock our day 2 cupboard. That's a plus. But overall the risk that you help them draft a difference maker isn't worth the value back IMO. And as @NoSaint says if it works out in the worst possible way for the Bills it will put major pressure on Beane. 

I agree it will put pressure on Beane if Worthy works.  But not because it should, because the media and public don’t understand the reality of this trade and how little difference it made, if any, in KC getting help at WR and likely getting the same player even.  

[jkeerie]

32 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

What we can reasonably guess is that the Chiefs offered more than the other callers.

 

Which is what Beane said.

[CoudyBills]

Was hoping to move up and grab Thomas.

[TheBrownBear]

I love what Beane did yesterday.  Once the top three receivers came off the board and there wasn't an immediate run on the second tier of receivers, I definitely wanted Beane to trade back for additional draft capital in the second and third rounds.  Just taking a look at all of the good players available on the board right now, I wouldn't be against being moving back another few pics to increase the value of our second second round pick. There's a decent chance we walk away with our new starting center and two receivers that can contribute as rookies.

Edited April 26 by TheBrownBear