Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State

[cle23]

51 minutes ago, DJB said:

So now that we know our first two picks, you guys wouldn’t trade Coleman, Bishop and our 2025 1st for Odunze?

 

Heck yes I would 

 

Who says Chicago takes the trade though? They want to surround Williams with weapons.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

Gabe Davis ran a faster 40 at his combine than Coleman did 

Gabe Davis also didn't fight for contested catches. He didn't fight for the football. That's part of the reason Allen's INT rate when targeting Davis was so much higher than everyone else on the team. It's almost like there's more to the WR position than "run fast".

 

 

[NoSaint]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watching a little of his game now. He reminds me a little bit of Deandre Hopkins, actually. Hopkins ran a 4.57.

yea- Hopkins being drafted off a 1400 yard and 18 TD season though. 
 

heck Coleman had almost all his 600 yards in 3 games ala gabe Davis. He’s a guy that can be neutralized 
 

It’s entirely possible but at his specs, it’s going to be a major challenge. It’s not quite Josh Allen proving wrong math levels but it’s a real ceiling projection 

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Who says Chicago takes the trade though? They want to surround Williams with weapons.  

Exactly. If they don’t win this year, the entire regime running this draft in Chicago won’t be making the picks next year. They almost got fired this year.

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Gabe Davis also didn't fight for contested catches. He didn't fight for the football. That's part of the reason Allen's INT rate when targeting Davis was so much higher than everyone else on the team. It's almost like there's more to the WR position than "run fast".

 

 

Right but I think there’s a real concern with “run slow” still

 

being good at contested catches is great. It being because you face 3 times as many because you are not just average but below average speed is a concern in itself. Even being good at contested catches is a lower percentage throw than going to a guy that actually got open

Edited April 27 by NoSaint

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Right but I think there’s a real concern with “run slow” still

 

being good at contested catches is great. It being because you face 3 times as many because you are not just average but below average speed is a concern in itself. Even being good at contested catches is a lower percentage throw than going to a guy that actually got open

The thing is, though, gabe davis, kelvin benjamin, and devin funchess aren’t guys who were ever capable of getting a roster spot on an historically elite D1 college basketball squad: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keon-coleman-1.html. Something to factor in.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

The thing is, though, gabe davis, kelvin benjamin, and devin funchess aren’t guys who were ever capable of getting a roster spot on an historically elite D1 college basketball squad: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keon-coleman-1.html. Something to factor in.

I guess I'm comfortable with him as a Gabe Davis replacement. I still don't like that where he excels, or has a better chance at success, is as a big slot.

Beane was talking about adding explosiveness to the WR room. Is that supposed to be Samuel, because Coleman isn't that?

If you add prime and congenial Stephon Diggs to the current WR room, that would be a nice collection. Unfortunately, we are missing the key ingredient.

[Sierra Foothills]

In this topic Keon Coleman has been compared to the following bigger receivers who had middling 40 times:

 

Eric Moulds N/A

Keenan Allen 4.71 (Pro Day)

Anquan Boldin 4.71

Devin Funchess 4.70

Terrell Owens 4.63

Larry Fitzgerald 4.63

Cooper Kupp 4.62

Kelvin Benjamin 4.61

Allen Robinson 4.60

Tee Higgins 4.59

Plaxico Burress 4.59

Puka Nacua 4.57

DeAndre Hopkins 4.57

Michael Thomas 4.57

Davante Adams 4.56

Courtland Sutton 4.54

Mike Williams 4.54

Gabriel Davis 4.54

Brandon Marshall 4.53

Mike Evans 4.53

James Hardy 4.53

Dez Bryant 4.52

Michael Pittman Jr. 4.52

Vincent Jackson 4.51

Kenny Golladay 4.50

 

It's also been brought up that players that timed slower like Jerry Rice (4.71), Steve Largent (4.70), and Antonio Brown (4.48) had great NFL careers. Amon-Ra St Brown (4.59) is on that trajectory.

 

I think the following points are indisputable:

• No one here knows what Keon Coleman's career will look like (we might think we do but we don't because all of us have been wrong about players)
• He was drafted 33rd overall
• A slower 40 time does not guarantee failure in the NFL
• Play speed is different than timed speed
• Based on his RAS, the game tape, his multi-sport exploits, and professional opinions, Coleman is an elite athlete EXCEPT for top end speed
• Besides elite athletic traits he brings size, toughness, elite contested catch ability, and elite blocking ability to a WR room that had none of the above
• His size, toughness, and unique traits will translate well to cold weather, late season and playoff games when DPI becomes legalized

Edited April 30 by Sierra Foothills

[Jay_Fixit]

I really can’t wait to come look at this thread in 2 years.

[NoSaint]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The thing is, though, gabe davis, kelvin benjamin, and devin funchess aren’t guys who were ever capable of getting a roster spot on an historically elite D1 college basketball squad: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/keon-coleman-1.html. Something to factor in.

that said: what are you factoring in from that? 
 

sure, it’s an interesting story but he’s not a 6’7 guy that’s going to tight end and is a big body that can box out and go up like gates against a linebacker or safety 

 

is it that he’s quick twitch and interesting off the line and in and out of breaks? If so, why didn’t we see more separation on tape?

 

he’s a big guy but contested catches are low percentage. That he’s good at a low percentage play is good in the red zone but not a focal point player 

 

10 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I really can’t wait to come look at this thread in 2 years.

I think he will be just good enough but not great enough that both sides say I told you so 

Edited April 27 by NoSaint

[Fixxxer]

Keon Coleman's highlights from Micihigan State

 

 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

that said: what are you factoring in from that? 
 

sure, it’s an interesting story but he’s not a 6’7 guy that’s going to tight end and is a big body that can box out and go up like gates against a linebacker or safety 

 

is it that he’s quick twitch and interesting off the line and in and out of breaks? If so, why didn’t we see more separation on tape?

I think he will be just good enough but not great enough that both sides say I told you so 

Just that he’s a really good athlete for one and also that there are short area-movement/quickness and leaping physical skills required to make a basketball team that is historically so good. Very few football players have them; otherwise they’d be on basketball teams. Basketball players are generally better all-around athletes than football players. A lot of people play football because they’re not good enough to make much smaller basketball teams; ask many receivers/corners and they’ll tell you basketball was their number one sport. Anyway, those skills point to a profile that is not remotely close to Kelvin Benjamin. To be fair, the long speed worries me too. But he clearly has some crazy acrobatic skills in tight spaces. A cut above.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

33 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

That's alot of red there

[balln]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Just that he’s a really good athlete for one and also that there are short area-movement/quickness and leaping physical skills required to make a basketball team that is historically so good. Very few football players have them; otherwise they’d be on basketball teams. Basketball players are generally better all-around athletes than football players. A lot of people play football because they’re not good enough to make much smaller basketball teams; ask many receivers/corners and they’ll tell you basketball was their number one sport. Anyway, those skills point to a profile that is not remotely close to Kelvin Benjamin. To be fair, the long speed worries me too. But he clearly has some crazy acrobatic skills in tight spaces. A cut above.

Had enough of this. I don’t give a flip

if he played 4 plays at Michigan st basketball

 

hes “so atheletic”, good agility just slow

 

then why doesn’t he seperate. Dude can’t beat anyone w his agility. And be. Open. That’s a major issue for me. Don’t care about 4.6 

[ScorpionZero]

I'm actually looking forward to watching the replay shows and hearing "you got Mossed" after Keon takes the ball from, over or through the defending teams player.

Edited April 27 by ScorpionZero

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

The pick is slowly growing on me, especially with some of the vision of how I expect the offense to function going in.

 

For a little while now I've been envisioning a TE first passing attack, supplemented by the run game.

 

We have some great YAC guys in Shakir and Samuel. In fact, Shakir is scarily close to Diggs in height and weight, and the strength of both is their route running. Down the stretch Shakir was the more reliable target.

 

The thing the team DIDN'T have was the 'Power Forward '. I can't preach "I don't care about track speed, I want game speed" with my dislike of Worthy and Legette and then poo poo someone with the fastest gauntlet split. I watch Coleman's returns and what I see isn't game breaking speed, it's vision and the ability to cut to hit a lane. I care about that more.

 

Am I skeptical? Yes. Would I have preferred Odunze or BTJ? Hell yes. But that would have come at the cost of having no backup plan for a bunch of aging vets. I*like* Da'Quan and AJ and Douglas. They are unlikely to be on the team in 2 seasons. This is the time to get younger and build another window 

 

I can see a plan for the offense. I might not have gone the same choices, but I can see Brady moving to his own thing

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Just that he’s a really good athlete for one and also that there are short area-movement/quickness and leaping physical skills required to make a basketball team that is historically so good. Very few football players have them; otherwise they’d be on basketball teams. Basketball players are generally better all-around athletes than football players. A lot of people play football because they’re not good enough to make much smaller basketball teams; ask many receivers/corners and they’ll tell you basketball was their number one sport. Anyway, those skills point to a profile that is not remotely close to Kelvin Benjamin. To be fair, the long speed worries me too. But he clearly has some crazy acrobatic skills in tight spaces. A cut above.

heck, benjamin was productive for a stretch. But I agree that Coleman is athletic.  I just don’t think he’s shown anything approaching nfl wr1 yet. If we were slotting him behind diggs I’d be happier, for instance.

[The All-Pro-Knox Gallery]

40 times are irrelevant. Go watch a football game and tell me how many times you see a receiver sprint 40 yards in a straight line from the line of scrimmage. It’s insane how people will discredit a player who is obviously good on the field. We’re drafting this guy to catch the ball over people. We haven’t had someone who can do that in a very long time.

[FireChans]

29 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

In this topic Keon Coleman has been compared to the following bigger receivers, most of whom had middling 40 times (I may have missed a few):

 

Kelvin Benjamin

DeAndre Hopkins

James Hardy

Courtland Sutton

Kenny Golladay

Vincent Jackson

Cooper Kupp

Brandon Marshall

Plaxico Burress

Gabriel Davis

Mike Evans

Keenan Allen

Mike Williams

Terrell Owens

Puka Nacua

 

It's also been brought up that slower receivers like Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, and Antonio Brown had great NFL careers.

 

I think the following points are indisputable:

• No one here knows what Keon Coleman's career will look like (we might think we do but we don't because all of us have been wrong about players)
• He was drafted 33rd overall
• A slower 40 time does not guarantee failure in the NFL
• Play speed is different than timed speed
• Based on his RAS, the game tape, his multi-sport exploits, and professional opinions, Coleman is an elite athlete EXCEPT for top end speed
• Besides elite athletic traits he brings size, toughness, elite contested catch ability, and elite blocking ability to a WR room that had none of the above
• His size, toughness, and unique traits will translate well to cold weather, late season and playoff games when DPI becomes legalized

What do you predict Coleman will produce at the NFL level if he isn’t a flat out bust?

8 minutes ago, The All-Pro-Knox Gallery said:

40 times are irrelevant. Go watch a football game and tell me how many times you see a receiver sprint 40 yards in a straight line from the line of scrimmage. It’s insane how people will discredit a player who is obviously good on the field. We’re drafting this guy to catch the ball over people. We haven’t had someone who can do that in a very long time.

He can’t get off press either. 
 

We basically took a guy with warts (and lots of WR’s at that point had warts) and his elite skill is the worst elite skill to have.

[MrEpsYtown]

30 minutes ago, Fixxxer said:

Keon Coleman's highlights from Micihigan State

 

 

I hope he picks #0. That would be cool.