Buffalo716 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 18 minutes ago, FireChans said: Right. So if Josh Gordon, who was immensely talented but a supreme knucklehead, can produce gigantic numbers while being force fed, and a guy like Diggs can’t, maybe he just don’t got it no more. Well I think it's a little bit of a few things... Yes diggs certainly is in the latter half of his career but soundly in the top 10 imo when healthy... He certainly was banged up last year It would be nice to have a thoroughbred X receiver to take some pressure off him As to Gordon I think that year shows what happens when he had his head on right and he actually just wanted to ball... He was going to be the focal point so he stayed focus But he's more akin to Eric moulds or TO level talent but such a knuckle head he was suspended and left college Then after all the drugs injuries and suspensions just floated around the league But the dude had such crazy physical talent he was the highest supplemental draft pick in a while.. there hasn't been a supplemental draft choice taken with a higher pick then Gordon in 21 years Edited March 11 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Well I think it's a little bit of a few things... Yes diggs certainly is in the latter half of his career but soundly in the top 10 imo when healthy... He certainly was banged up last year It would be nice to have a thoroughbred X receiver to take some pressure off him As to Gordon I think that year shows what happens when he had his head on right and he actually just wanted to ball... He was going to be the focal point so he stayed focus But he's more akin to Eric moulds or TO level talent but such a knuckle head he was suspended and left college Then after all the drugs injuries and suspensions just floated around the league But the dude had such crazy physical talent he was the highest supplemental draft pick in a while.. there hasn't been a supplemental draft choice taken with a higher pick then Gordon in 21 years I'm not sure you know what certainly means. There was no end of the season "Diggs has been dealing with a groin injury" report. He participated in the Pro Bowl just after the season ended, so whatever injury you are "certain" he had, it clearly wasn't that big of a deal. Even if you want to argue that Diggs is hurt every year and that's why he no-shows in the playoffs every year, I don't think that supports any argument in his favor. Tre White was really good without his injuries and they showed him the door. IMO, he's just old. Hyde and Poyer didn't have some super secret injury last year. They just got old. We seem to accept this for everyone but Stef because he's.... well, I don't really know why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: He was on the injury report at least seven times late in the season last year He wasn't questionable once. Back looked fine at the Pro Bowl. Are you counting "Vet rest" as an injury? Then Von was injured all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FireChans said: He wasn't questionable once. Back looked fine at the Pro Bowl. Are you counting "Vet rest" as an injury? Then Von was injured all year. It's been a while so I can't say for certainty you might be right But he definitely was listed as a back injury before we played Denver... Then the next week he got suplexed by saucegardner And he seemed to get up slow the rest of the year He wasn't listed before... But I thought he was at least on that for a few weeks But that hit looked like it affected him the week after he did have a back designation There's a difference between being injured and banged up.. he could have been playing through a lot of back pain Edited March 11 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 8 minutes ago, FireChans said: I'm not sure you know what certainly means. There was no end of the season "Diggs has been dealing with a groin injury" report. He participated in the Pro Bowl just after the season ended, so whatever injury you are "certain" he had, it clearly wasn't that big of a deal. Even if you want to argue that Diggs is hurt every year and that's why he no-shows in the playoffs every year, I don't think that supports any argument in his favor. Tre White was really good without his injuries and they showed him the door. IMO, he's just old. Hyde and Poyer didn't have some super secret injury last year. They just got old. We seem to accept this for everyone but Stef because he's.... well, I don't really know why. I go back & forth on Diggs and this characterization. What was weird to me this past season is that it felt like he played the 1st couple of months in peak form, putting up big #'s. Then it seemed like his production dropped off a cliff. That says "injury" more than "old" to me. I just don't think that age catches up to you in a few weeks. And he isn't that old for a WR. I guess we won't really know until we get deep into the upcoming season. I think they should build the WR corps like his best days are behind him, and then if he returns to form, it's more of a bonus. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Success said: I go back & forth on Diggs and this characterization. What was weird to me this past season is that it felt like he played the 1st couple of months in peak form, putting up big #'s. Then it seemed like his production dropped off a cliff. That says "injury" more than "old" to me. I just don't think that age catches up to you in a few weeks. And he isn't that old for a WR. I guess we won't really know until we get deep into the upcoming season. I think they should build the WR corps like his best days are behind him, and then if he returns to form, it's more of a bonus. I checked and he was on the injury report for a back injury the week we played Washington Then he got suplexed by sauce Gardener the next week He may not have had a severe injury but I think he was playing through back pain for the last half of the year Edited March 11 by Buffalo716 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) Thankfully stocking elite players isn’t the only way nor the ideal way to build a team. Yes you want great players but they don’t need a roster of elite guys. There are good teams with elite players I think we’re better then: The Coyboys - at least 7 The Browns - at least 8? The Ravens - at least 9?? The Dolphins - at least 9?? The Jets you could argue have at least 6. As for the Bills: Allen Dawkins Diggs Milano Bernard - I’m putting him here. In the making: Torrence Kincaid Cook Worth noting. The 1990-1993 Bills had how many Hall of Famers? Edited March 11 by Big Blitz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 5 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: It's an interesting post. I would have Diggs and Cook included in your elites for Buffalo. Douglas is right on the cusp of elite too. After that, the OP premise is correct with many good players like Dawkins, Kincaid, Oliver, and Douglas. Benford and Bernard look well on their way to being very good just need a bigger sample size. Of course we lack an elite HC. But though I refuse to call Beane a genius, he probably is a top 5 and therefore elite GM One last point, an elite QB probably makes up for 5-10 other elite guys. No way Diggs is elite anymore. I would take good and occasionally very good for the next 2 years and be ecstatic. And that is the best ending that is ever happening for his career w the Buffalo Bills Douglas was a great pickup last year. He is tough smart. a leader. Just a dam good defensive back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: I checked and he was on the injury report for a back injury the week we played Washington Then he got suplexed by sauce Gardener the next week He may not have had a severe injury but I think he was playing through back pain for the last half of the year So that was week 4 or 5? I think that’s the one I remember most too. He almost didn’t get up. He got slammed quite a few times but that one was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Imma say no.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) So does Buffalo have elite talent? 1. QB - Josh, check 2. RB - Cook, finished 4th in the NFL in rushing, and was 3rd among RBs in total yards from scrimmage. That's pretty elite. He would have been 2nd if MCD didn't stupidly bench him for most of a game. 3. Diggs - I know people are down on Diggs, but he finished 6th in receptions and 13th in yards among WRs in 2023. I'm expecting a big "comeback" season once Beane gets him some boundary help this offseason. 4. Kincaid - As a rookie, he was 7th in receptions and 10th in yard among TE. Not elite numbers yet, but should be top 5 next year 5. Dawkins - How do you quantify how good he is and what he means to Josh and the Bills? 6. Milano - If healthy, he is one of the elite LB's in the NFL. 7. Benard - He was 12th in the NFL last season in tackles (solo and assisted) with 143 as a 1st year starter. 8. Oliver - Just read a description of him as one of the most dangerous interior rush D lineman in the NFL. That sounds pretty elite. That's a pretty good core group to work with. What will Benford and Torrence be with a few more years of experience? Edited March 11 by GASabresIUFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 No. And it has been the case multiple years. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Alright, i'm finally going to weigh in on this.... The way i define elite talent is, a roster you can build a franchise around. The Bills of the 90's had Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Reed, Lofton, Biscuit, Talley, Bruce Smith, House Ballard, Tasker, etc.....you take any one or two of these players and you can build a franchise around them and it's not even debatable.....i'm not even going to include coaching cause a team with that much talent basically coached themselves.....Levi, Marchibroda and Polian all but admitted that. That was some high-end elite talent right there and they went as far as that talent could take them. The roster we have today is JA, that's it. Everyone else on our roster is expendable. There is no one else you could possibly build a franchise around. Our roster is simply adequate and serviceable.....and by adequate, i mean it's good, but not good enough as we've seen year in and year out where we just can't get it done. It's serviceable where our FO thinks they can just plug and play and hopefully not miss a beat, however, we have no foundation, no building blocks in place to expand upon. We have what we have, that's it. I'm of the mindset of creating a young team where they can gel, bond and grow together. It seems the FO was forced this year through cap hell to finally look at a younger roster.....and i'm fine with that. I have spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauleeeWalnuts Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 It’s been pretty obvious that they don’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Josh and Diggs are elite players. I think Kincaid will develop into one. Milano is elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: No. And it has been the case multiple years. I think the philosophy of only bringing in "high culture" guys tends to lead to these types of situations. Sometimes a little ferocity is beneficial. If you don't have that inner fire on the field, you're not going to dominate. Josh Allen has it. When we tried to tame him we went backwards. I was never a fan of Ray Lewis but he terrorized teams. Not someone the Bills would probably every consider having on their roster. As the old saying goes. Nice guys finish last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) Well, if you look back a bit I think we would see that Diggs was elite, Tre White was elite, and Dawkins is also elite in my view. Von Miller at full strength is also elite. But yeah, Allen is H & S above everyone else right now. defensive Injuries have seriously screwed this team the last few seasons and as much as the FO has put into the defense it hasn't been enough. Edited March 11 by Nihilarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) Most of the Bills "elite" talent has fallen off in the past 1-2 seasons. - Tre White was elite until the ACL and Achilles injuries - Micah Hyde was elite until the neck injury last year - Von Miller was elite until the ACL tear - Jordan Poyer was elite, but has been on gradual decline for the last two seasons - Matt Milano was elite, but missed all of last year with a leg injury - Stefon Diggs was elite until about mid-way through last season It's certainly fair to question if the Bills have enough elite talent right now (March 2024) to compete with the top teams in the league. But it's not accurate to say Brandon Beane has failed to bring in elite talent over the last few years, or that Josh Allen is somehow being asked to do everything himself. This has easily been one of the best rosters in the NFL for 3-4 seasons now. I agree that we currently have a TON of B or B+ level players. What needs to happen is for a few of these young guys to step to the next level and become elite. Ed Oliver seems close. I could see Rasul Douglas getting there under this coaching staff. Greg Rousseau has the potential. Terrel Bernard flashed that kind of ability. So has James Cook. Dalton Kincaid and O'Cyrus Torrence have the talent to get there. Edited March 11 by mjt328 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, BillMafia716ix said: Josh and Diggs are elite players. I think Kincaid will develop into one. Milano is elite. I actually don't think Diggs is elite. I think he's good, sometimes great, but elite?......he's not a player you can build a franchise around. He was good in Minnesota and he's been good at times here, but i certainly wouldn't put him in the category of elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Sweats said: I actually don't think Diggs is elite. I think he's good, sometimes great, but elite?......he's not a player you can build a franchise around. He was good in Minnesota and he's been good at times here, but i certainly wouldn't put him in the category of elite. Was he ever a top 3-4 receiver in the league? Maybe 2020, on the fringe. Probably was borderline elite then, but he's definitely not now, that's for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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