thenorthremembers Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) Really have to normalize the data to fully understand the comparison (click below). I dont think anyone would argue that Lamar isnt on Mahomes or Allen's level, but he isnt as far off as the raw data originally posted would have you think. He is on par with both Mahomes and Josh when it comes to total yards, the issue is the high number of interceptions in comparison to his average touchdown output. Josh and Pat are nearly identical when it comes to averages, but Id argue where the difference shows up is when it comes to being clutch. Brady was better than Pat in head to heads, Mahomes is better than Allen. Lamar is a fine quarterback. He sells a lot of jerseys. Edited February 16 by thenorthremembers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 4 hours ago, JoshAllin said: I did like Taylor tbh. It's too bad he wasn't blessed with the top D in the league I liked Tyrod until I watched him become what I called a wheel-spinner. When the Bills 1st signed Tyrod & I heard about some Ravens teammates saying glowing things about him, I sent a Bills fan friend an e-mail titled "We've found our franchise QB" and attached a photo of a tie-rod. He hadn't heard of the signing yet and his reply asked me why I sent him a photo of a car part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: agreed. this thread plows no new ground... Yeah, but let’s rehash this to death one more time…, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In fairness 2015 was Tyrod's best year. Once teams had film he was less effective. But yea, nobody was calling him an MVP..... except @transplantbillsfan actually. He loved himself some Tyrodball. Lol. Did we have annual Tyrod MVP threads back in the day too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 23 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Lol. Did we have annual Tyrod MVP threads back in the day too? Not quite. But we did have lots of "ignore your eyes and look at these stats that prove that Tyrod is a top 10 Quarterback." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 8 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I mean... Where are you getting your numbers? Lamar Jackson fumbled the ball 11 times and lost 6 fumbles this year, not 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Where are you getting your numbers? Lamar Jackson fumbled the ball 11 times and lost 6 fumbles this year, not 2. Not my meme. Just thought it was funny/interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Not my meme. Just thought it was funny/interesting. It is... it's just inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: Really have to normalize the data to fully understand the comparison (click below). I dont think anyone would argue that Lamar isnt on Mahomes or Allen's level, but he isnt as far off as the raw data originally posted would have you think. He is on par with both Mahomes and Josh when it comes to total yards, the issue is the high number of interceptions in comparison to his average touchdown output. Josh and Pat are nearly identical when it comes to averages, but Id argue where the difference shows up is when it comes to being clutch. Brady was better than Pat in head to heads, Mahomes is better than Allen. Lamar is a fine quarterback. He sells a lot of jerseys. Here’s the thing, you’re going by wins and losses but is Josh really letting his team down in clutch situations? He puts them ahead or in position to tie a lot, it’s not his fault they seem to ***** it up when he walks off the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 13 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Don't buy the premise that Lamar is guaranteed HoF. We have done the chat about why he was MVP and the rights and wrongs of that to death. Every other 2 time winner is in the HOF 9 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said: If Bills have the best record in the league next season, Josh will be MVP. Bruce Nolan agrees with you https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/2/11/24069190/opinion-mvp-voters-like-fans-overall-think-wins-are-a-qb-stat-ravens-lamar-jackson-bills-josh-allen He ranks the priorities for MVP voters in the following order: #1- Most wins in Conference #2- Most wins head to head against other MVP candidates #3- QB efficiency #4- Raw stats 7 years in a row that the MVP winner has been the best team in the AFC or NFC record wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 41 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Every other 2 time winner is in the HOF Bruce Nolan agrees with you https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/2/11/24069190/opinion-mvp-voters-like-fans-overall-think-wins-are-a-qb-stat-ravens-lamar-jackson-bills-josh-allen He ranks the priorities for MVP voters in the following order: #1- Most wins in Conference #2- Most wins head to head against other MVP candidates #3- QB efficiency #4- Raw stats 7 years in a row that the MVP winner has been the best team in the AFC or NFC record wise. Top two got nothing to do with individual play which makes the reasoning so *****. Who does most for his team should be top of the list. The NFL is ***** anyway. I seen an interview today where the reporter asked Josh if the Pro Bowl was lame and he just kind of hummed and hawed and kind of dodged the question. Thought it was pretty funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Josh... 5-5 playoff record 2,723 yards passing 21 touchdowns 4 interceptions 563 yards rushing 5 rushing TDs . Jackson... 2-4 playoff record 1,324 yards passing 6 touchdowns 6 interceptions 521 yards rushing 3 rushing TDs. Lamar, sadly, pretty much ensured (somehow) he will be in the HOF as a 2 time League MVP. Josh (somehow) still has work he's gotta do to be considered. Discuss... Well, first, unless something goes wrong, Josh is in. They're letting a lot of guys in the HOF now, and by the end of his career, Josh is going to have pretty amazing numbers, where he ever wins a Super Bowl. A lot of TDs, a lot of yards passing and a lot of yards rushing. He's already 8th on the career rushing list, and it's not a stretch for him to get into Vick/Newton territory. And his passing number will blow those guys away. The real problem is the MVP. It's just a weird popularity contest. I don't know who votes, but what's happened the last few years is about November the broadcasters all start speculating about who the MVP might be, naming a top 5, and somehow over the next month they drop names off the list, so that by the end of the season the announcers have built a consensus for one guy or another. As we saw this season, the announcers anointed Lamar before Josh and the Bills had a late season run - by early December they all were saying Lamar is the consensus choice. How can that make sense - it's a 17 game season, and a bunch of announcers decide who's going to be the MVP after 12 games. Plus, of course, the MVP is a regular season award and not a playoff award. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 MVP voting should not take place till the Super Bowl is done. As for Jackson vs. Allen, Jackson is not a big game QB. Teams shut him down in the playoffs and showcase his flaws. Allen plays big in big games, just has to get the rest of the team dialed in to get past KC. Bottom line to me, Lamar keeps his team from getting a Lombardi, the team around him keeps Josh from the Lombardi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: The real problem is the MVP. It's just a weird popularity contest. I don't know who votes, but what's happened the last few years is about November the broadcasters all start speculating about who the MVP might be, naming a top 5, and somehow over the next month they drop names off the list, so that by the end of the season the announcers have built a consensus for one guy or another. As we saw this season, the announcers anointed Lamar before Josh and the Bills had a late season run - by early December they all were saying Lamar is the consensus choice. How can that make sense - it's a 17 game season, and a bunch of announcers decide who's going to be the MVP after 12 games. Plus, of course, the MVP is a regular season award and not a playoff award. Josh was ruled out early on with the 6-6 record and his INTs. You hit it when you said 12 games, that when they narrowed it down to Lamar vs the field and ignored everything Josh did the rest of the way. And then the Ravens killed the 49ers and embarrassed Miami to get the #1 seed. The criteria is set. The MVP is going to be the QB on the #1 seeded team with the best record. That's it. And Lamar's team beat Purdy's team head to head to make it even easier in the voters minds. In my personal opinion,,,if not Allen (the most TD's and great stats leading us to the #2 seed), then I would've given it to CMC or Tyreek. Both were hugely important and made their respective teams what they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 39 minutes ago, BananaB said: Top two got nothing to do with individual play which makes the reasoning so *****. Who does most for his team should be top of the list. The NFL is ***** anyway. I seen an interview today where the reporter asked Josh if the Pro Bowl was lame and he just kind of hummed and hawed and kind of dodged the question. Thought it was pretty funny Agreed... but what Nolan is saying--and he's right--is that those are the things MVP voters value and in that order. And we just have to understand and accept that it won't likely change. 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: MVP voting should not take place till the Super Bowl is done. As for Jackson vs. Allen, Jackson is not a big game QB. Teams shut him down in the playoffs and showcase his flaws. Allen plays big in big games, just has to get the rest of the team dialed in to get past KC. Bottom line to me, Lamar keeps his team from getting a Lombardi, the team around him keeps Josh from the Lombardi. I actually understand why they do it at the end of the regular season. The MVP would overwhelmingly always be the same as Super Bowl MVP. Mahomes shouldn't have been league MVP this year and voters would have been biased by his postseason and would have given it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Well, first, unless something goes wrong, Josh is in. They're letting a lot of guys in the HOF now, and by the end of his career, Josh is going to have pretty amazing numbers, where he ever wins a Super Bowl. A lot of TDs, a lot of yards passing and a lot of yards rushing. He's already 8th on the career rushing list, and it's not a stretch for him to get into Vick/Newton territory. And his passing number will blow those guys away. The real problem is the MVP. It's just a weird popularity contest. I don't know who votes, but what's happened the last few years is about November the broadcasters all start speculating about who the MVP might be, naming a top 5, and somehow over the next month they drop names off the list, so that by the end of the season the announcers have built a consensus for one guy or another. As we saw this season, the announcers anointed Lamar before Josh and the Bills had a late season run - by early December they all were saying Lamar is the consensus choice. How can that make sense - it's a 17 game season, and a bunch of announcers decide who's going to be the MVP after 12 games. Plus, of course, the MVP is a regular season award and not a playoff award. Here are the 2023 MVP voters: Emmanuel Acho, FS1 Greg Auman, Fox Sports Howard Balzer, PHNX radio Jarrett Bell, USA Today Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press Tom Brady, Fox Sports Tedy Bruschi, ESPN Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston Charles Davis, CBS Sports Nate Davis, USA Today Howard Deneroff, Westwood One Tony Dungy, NBC Sports Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia Rich Gannon, SiriusXM Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports Lindsay Jones, The Ringer Mike Jones, The Athletic Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan(dot)com Mina Kimes, ESPN Peter King, NBC Sports Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM Jeff Legwold, ESPN Jim Miller, SiriusXM Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus Bruce Murray, SiriusXM Gary Myers, NFL author Laura Okmin, Fox Sports Dan Orlovsky, ESPN Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM Dan Pompei, The Athletic Nora Princiotti, The Ringer Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports Dianna Russini, The Athletic Mike Sando, The Athletic Aaron Schatz, FTN Network Adam Schein, CBS Sports Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Chris Simms, NBC Sports Armando Salguero, Outkick(dot)com Mike Tirico, NBC Sports Ben Volin, Boston Globe Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Clearly 98% of the voters are just morons and the guy who finished 5th deserved to win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 26 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Here are the 2023 MVP voters: Emmanuel Acho, FS1 Greg Auman, Fox Sports Howard Balzer, PHNX radio Jarrett Bell, USA Today Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press Tom Brady, Fox Sports Tedy Bruschi, ESPN Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston Charles Davis, CBS Sports Nate Davis, USA Today Howard Deneroff, Westwood One Tony Dungy, NBC Sports Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia Rich Gannon, SiriusXM Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports Lindsay Jones, The Ringer Mike Jones, The Athletic Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan(dot)com Mina Kimes, ESPN Peter King, NBC Sports Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM Jeff Legwold, ESPN Jim Miller, SiriusXM Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus Bruce Murray, SiriusXM Gary Myers, NFL author Laura Okmin, Fox Sports Dan Orlovsky, ESPN Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM Dan Pompei, The Athletic Nora Princiotti, The Ringer Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports Dianna Russini, The Athletic Mike Sando, The Athletic Aaron Schatz, FTN Network Adam Schein, CBS Sports Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Chris Simms, NBC Sports Armando Salguero, Outkick(dot)com Mike Tirico, NBC Sports Ben Volin, Boston Globe Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk Mina Kimes. Folks, the problem isn’t the narrative. It’s the voters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Here are the 2023 MVP voters: Emmanuel Acho, FS1 Greg Auman, Fox Sports Howard Balzer, PHNX radio Jarrett Bell, USA Today Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press Tom Brady, Fox Sports Tedy Bruschi, ESPN Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston Charles Davis, CBS Sports Nate Davis, USA Today Howard Deneroff, Westwood One Tony Dungy, NBC Sports Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia Rich Gannon, SiriusXM Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports Lindsay Jones, The Ringer Mike Jones, The Athletic Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan(dot)com Mina Kimes, ESPN Peter King, NBC Sports Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM Jeff Legwold, ESPN Jim Miller, SiriusXM Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus Bruce Murray, SiriusXM Gary Myers, NFL author Laura Okmin, Fox Sports Dan Orlovsky, ESPN Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM Dan Pompei, The Athletic Nora Princiotti, The Ringer Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports Dianna Russini, The Athletic Mike Sando, The Athletic Aaron Schatz, FTN Network Adam Schein, CBS Sports Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Chris Simms, NBC Sports Armando Salguero, Outkick(dot)com Mike Tirico, NBC Sports Ben Volin, Boston Globe Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk interesting list . I believe Carucci didnt put in a first place vote for Josh despite the hometown connection . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 24 minutes ago, Billl said: Clearly 98% of the voters are just morons and the guy who finished 5th deserved to win. Clearly as a KC fan you’re going to feel biased towards your guy, and I find no fault in that. It would be strange if you didn’t feel as though your awesome 3x Super Bowl winning QB was so untouchable. That being said, a person can look at all the success KC has had and believe Mahomes is clearly on the GOAT path and may get there, but can also look at the QB and his individual play and say there’s nothing on the field he can do that Allen can’t, and as a matter of fact, there’s actually things Allen does on the field that no other QB can duplicate. its no different than looking at Brady and saying of course he’s the GOAT and Manning isn’t, at the same time saying… Manning was a better player. Having team success and being the GOAT at the end of your career is about accomplishments, Manning’s tell fell short in that regard but most acknowledge Manning as the better player. I suspect in 15 years when Mahomes/Allen are retired the same conversation will take place with most acknowledging Mahomes as the GOAT or possibly in the GOAT conversation at least and at the same time recognizing Allen as the better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, julian said: Clearly as a KC fan you’re going to feel biased towards your guy, and I find no fault in that. It would be strange if you didn’t feel as though your awesome 3x Super Bowl winning QB was so untouchable. That being said, a person can look at all the success KC has had and believe Mahomes is clearly on the GOAT path and may get there, but can also look at the QB and his individual play and say there’s nothing on the field he can do that Allen can’t, and as a matter of fact, there’s actually things Allen does on the field that no other QB can duplicate. its no different than looking at Brady and saying of course he’s the GOAT and Manning isn’t, at the same time saying… Manning was a better player. Having team success and being the GOAT at the end of your career is about accomplishments, Manning’s tell fell short in that regard but most acknowledge Manning as the better player. I suspect in 15 years when Mahomes/Allen are retired the same conversation will take place with most acknowledging Mahomes as the GOAT or possibly in the GOAT conversation at least and at the same time recognizing Allen as the better player. I don’t think Mahomes deserved to win MVP this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, Billl said: I don’t think Mahomes deserved to win MVP this year. I don’t think you’re alone lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 18 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Josh... 5-5 playoff record 2,723 yards passing 21 touchdowns 4 interceptions 563 yards rushing 5 rushing TDs . Jackson... 2-4 playoff record 1,324 yards passing 6 touchdowns 6 interceptions 521 yards rushing 3 rushing TDs. Lamar, sadly, pretty much ensured (somehow) he will be in the HOF as a 2 time League MVP. Josh (somehow) still has work he's gotta do to be considered. Discuss... Don’t you think it’s a little disingenuous to compare stats from a 10 game sample to 6 games? None of these stats had any bearing on the MVP votes anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 9 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Just curious, what is the point of this? To make fun of the slower kid because we can’t catch the faster one. Just an analogy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, julian said: Clearly as a KC fan you’re going to feel biased towards your guy, and I find no fault in that. It would be strange if you didn’t feel as though your awesome 3x Super Bowl winning QB was so untouchable. That being said, a person can look at all the success KC has had and believe Mahomes is clearly on the GOAT path and may get there, but can also look at the QB and his individual play and say there’s nothing on the field he can do that Allen can’t, and as a matter of fact, there’s actually things Allen does on the field that no other QB can duplicate. I’d argue that the only thing Allen can do that Mahomes can’t is run over someone. I’d also argue that Mahomes is capable of things that Allen isn’t, particularly from the mental aspect of the game. Which is huge, even though most focus on physical attributes. Regardless, this isn’t the way to evaluate a player. Mike Vick could do things that no other QB could do. Does that make him better than Allen and Brady? Of course not, because he was too flawed in other areas. A lot of QBs can pull off great plays at times. What separates the best is the ability to consistently make great plays, and at the biggest moments. Allen and Mahomes both make plenty of great plays, but the main thing that separates them is that Mahomes has a much lower rate of INTs and fumbles throughout his career. You can dismiss this, but it’s a major factor that Bills fans always ignore. Mahomes is like a Favre who makes fewer mistakes than Brady. 1 hour ago, julian said: its no different than looking at Brady and saying of course he’s the GOAT and Manning isn’t, at the same time saying… Manning was a better player. Having team success and being the GOAT at the end of your career is about accomplishments, Manning’s tell fell short in that regard but most acknowledge Manning as the better player. I suspect in 15 years when Mahomes/Allen are retired the same conversation will take place with most acknowledging Mahomes as the GOAT or possibly in the GOAT conversation at least and at the same time recognizing Allen as the better player. What? You think most consider Manning better than Brady? Maybe early in their careers. No one claims that now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: Don’t you think it’s a little disingenuous to compare stats from a 10 game sample to 6 games? None of these stats had any bearing on the MVP votes anyway. So average it out if you want. How about Passer Rating? Josh Allen has a Passer Rating of exactly 100 in those 10 games. Lamar's is 75.7. And other people brought up MVP votes, I didn't. OP was more just a springboard for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: So average it out if you want. How about Passer Rating? Josh Allen has a Passer Rating of exactly 100 in those 10 games. Lamar's is 75.7. And other people brought up MVP votes, I didn't. OP was more just a springboard for discussion. I don’t think very many people consider Jackson a better QB than Allen. Some just believe he had a better regular season. Primarily because Allen had a lot more interceptions and double the INT rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: What? You think most consider Manning better than Brady? Maybe early in their careers. No one claims that now. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 21 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I mean... Imagine if it was unanimous? Whoever voted for Allen (even though I don't agree with him - thought it should be McCaffrey) deserves a medal for not falling into groupthink. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Imagine if it was unanimous? Whoever voted for Allen (even though I don't agree with him - thought it should be McCaffrey) deserves a medal for not falling into groupthink. It was Aaron Schatz. And yea it happens every year now with MVP. The groupthink makes the vote itself a foregone conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: I’d argue that the only thing Allen can do that Mahomes can’t is run over someone. I’d also argue that Mahomes is capable of things that Allen isn’t, particularly from the mental aspect of the game. Which is huge, even though most focus on physical attributes. Regardless, this isn’t the way to evaluate a player. Mike Vick could do things that no other QB could do. Does that make him better than Allen and Brady? Of course not, because he was too flawed in other areas. A lot of QBs can pull off great plays at times. What separates the best is the ability to consistently make great plays, and at the biggest moments. Allen and Mahomes both make plenty of great plays, but the main thing that separates them is that Mahomes has a much lower rate of INTs and fumbles throughout his career. You can dismiss this, but it’s a major factor that Bills fans always ignore. Mahomes is like a Favre who makes fewer mistakes than Brady. What? You think most consider Manning better than Brady? Maybe early in their careers. No one claims that now. No one ? lol … I think it’s a view many fans hold, I’d take a rookie Manning over a rookie Brady to start a franchise 100% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I’m not sure how Lamar was such an overwhelming MVP choice. He was anointed by Week 3. Why is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaulGoodman Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 32 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said: I’m not sure how Lamar was such an overwhelming MVP choice. He was anointed by Week 3. Why is the question. I think it’s bizarre that it was overwhelming too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86poker Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/16/2024 at 8:07 AM, Chicken Boo said: How about we raise that bar a bit. Mahomes is the standard, not Lamar Jackson. If you projected Allen's playoff stats over 18 games Mahomes / Allen (projected 18 games) 5,135 / 4901 yards 41 / 38 TD's 8 / 7 INT's 524 / 1013 yards rushing 5 / 9 rushing TD's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyo321 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Lamar is a overpriced average QB that will never win a SB for the Ravens. He is a terrible in playoff games when it matters. Even worse than JA17. Josh at least leaves it all out on the field. I can't say that about Lamar. Lamar makes some bad throws too when he has no pressure on him. He does this constantly. Then he has a temper tantrum on the sidelines and hangs his head. Josh is starting to get better in this aspect of his game. Josh needs some work here too but Lamar is just terrible. Now we have to wait a entire 2024 season to see what happens in this coming playoff season. Lamar, in this article by Total Pro Sports, is given an A- and Josh gets a C+. It is amazing how biased the media is towards Lamar Jackson. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/final-grades-for-all-32-nfl-teams-starting-quarterbacks-for-the-2023-season-after-super-bowl-58/ss-BB1iotgR?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=0304d17bd6784987a1b6c1c9962e0bb2&ei=74#interstitial=2 Edited February 18 by Toyo321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 11 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: I don’t think very many people consider Jackson a better QB than Allen. Some just believe he had a better regular season. Primarily because Allen had a lot more interceptions and double the INT rate. Maybe... but I don't know. It's kinda my offseason resolution to stop listening to the national talking heads, but how many of them ever actually say that Josh is better? None of them are afraid to consistently talk about Mahomes being the best QB in the NFL (and rightly so), but you don't really hear them separate that next tier of Elite QBs in Allen, Burrow & Lamar. The only one who consistently does is that Bills Troll Nick Wright, who always has Lamar ahead of Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, Toyo321 said: Lamar is a overpriced average QB that will never win a SB for the Ravens. He is a terrible in playoff games when it matters. Even worse than JA17. Josh at least leaves it all out on the field. I can't say that about Lamar. Lemar makes some bad throws too when he has no pressure on him. He does this constantly. Then he has a temper tantrum on the sidelines and hangs his head. Josh is starting to get better in this aspect of his game. Josh needs some work here too but Lamar is just terrible. Now we have to wait a entire 2024 season to see what happens in this coming playoff season. Lamar, in this article by Total Pro Sports, is given an A- and Josh gets a C+. It is amazing how biased the media is towards Lamar Jackson. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/final-grades-for-all-32-nfl-teams-starting-quarterbacks-for-the-2023-season-after-super-bowl-58/ss-BB1iotgR?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=0304d17bd6784987a1b6c1c9962e0bb2&ei=74#interstitial=2 To give Allen the same grade as Minshew and Browning is absurdity. He’s simply held to a different standard than Lamar and everyone else. And the turnovers for Josh are magnified times 10. If Lamar had 10 more rushing TDs added to his 2023 stats media would be gushing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It was Aaron Schatz. And yea it happens every year now with MVP. The groupthink makes the vote itself a foregone conclusion. Aaron Schatz? Interesting. The analytic guys that used to hate him are now his biggest defenders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 7 hours ago, 86poker said: If you projected Allen's playoff stats over 18 games Mahomes / Allen (projected 18 games) 5,135 / 4901 yards 41 / 38 TD's 8 / 7 INT's 524 / 1013 yards rushing 5 / 9 rushing TD's But that's not the way it works. Mahomes had a terrible time in Super Bowl LV running for his life, but thems the breaks. Can't be great all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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