GASabresIUFan Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 20 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said: harty was easy whipping bou this year, but flat out give me him over freakin Hines all day..... especially if they get input from Brady that he thinks he can scheme him. dude was completely invisible with Dorksey, we saw a pulse from him after the change. not saying hes guaranteed dynamic, but would give him 2nd chance if brady gives approval nod 17 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: did you forget that Hines had 2 KR TD's in the same game? He has more pure speed (or had) than Harty who is more of a quickness in small spaces type In my humble opinion both guys should be sent packing. Both guys are primarily kick returners and to their credit, both guys gave the Bills a lift one game each over the last two seasons. However, one game each isn't worthy 4-5 million. Harty gave us last year 15 catches for 150 yards and 1 TD. We can replace that production from a practice squad player. Hines gave us mostly receiving yards with 30 catches for 241 and 1 TD (plus 33 yards rushing on 24 attempts - awful). Again this is easily replaced production. Ty Johnson gave us nearly 200 yards from scrimmage in 10 games as a 3rd stringer for 1/5 the cost. The only reason I think they’ll bring Hines back is our lack of backs in the organization that know the offense. Re-sign Johnson as the power back and re-sign Hines as the speed back & kick returner (depending on his knee) at a greatly reduced cap hit and Beane will call it a day. Draft 2 WRs, one early and one late to go with Diggs, Shakir and maybe Shorter. Edited February 12 by GASabresIUFan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 53 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: did you forget that Hines had 2 KR TD's in the same game? He has more pure speed (or had) than Harty who is more of a quickness in small spaces type hes coming off brutal injury at a position that ages like milk.... KR is basically a non-existent position starting this year (had already been trending that way). im not even saying retain harty at all cost, but i am saying i want nothing to do with hines and his contract, and am open to bradys input on deonte in HIS offense, as we saw what dorsey did to our entire offense. dude rubber band castrated josh allen and j-cook, took all of 1 week to change what we saw months of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 16 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Find a way: 1 of Nabers / Oduze OR 1 of Thomas Jr / Franklin / Mitchell & 1 of Legette / Worthy / Wilson / Baker / Walker / Burton / Polk / Rice There is no way for Nabers/Odunze. It's possible they're both gone by Pick 6. Practically a sure thing both will be gone by Pick 12 at the latest. It would simply cost too much to get that high and would almost definitely involve a 1st next year. They're great, but I don't see Beane moving two 1st's for anyone. You are almost 100% guaranteed to get one of the WR's on your next list. But as I see it, two of them is only happening in the following scenarios: 1.) We don't spend money on a veteran FA like Hollywood Brown. If we do, a 2nd Drafted WR would be behind Diggs (he's not going anywhere), the 1st WR we Draft, Shakir, Kincaid, and the Brown level vet in targets. You probably don't spend a Day 2 pick on a guy who's probably going to be 5th in the pecking order of targets. You definitely don't with someone who will be 6th - especially with the wide array of holes we have to fill. and 2a.) We trade down from 28 and pick up another 2nd or 3rd, so we have 4 picks by the end of Day 2, instead of 3. But in that scenario, you're def not getting Thomas Jr. and probably not Franklin either. It would be two from the second list. or 2b.) We trade up from Round 4 to get someone on the bottom of that 2nd list that fell to the late 3rd or early 4th. Allowing us to still get 2 starters at other positions before going back to WR. Edited February 13 by BillsFanForever19 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 At the moment I’d be good with either Franklin or Worthy…👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said: In my humble opinion both guys should be sent packing. Both guys are primarily kick returners and to their credit, both guys gave the Bills a lift one game each over the last two seasons. However, one game each isn't worthy 4-5 million. Harty gave us last year 15 catches for 150 yards and 1 TD. We can replace that production from a practice squad player. Hines gave us mostly receiving yards with 30 catches for 241 and 1 TD (plus 33 yards rushing on 24 attempts - awful). Again this is easily replaced production. Ty Johnson gave us nearly 200 yards from scrimmage in 10 games as a 3rd stringer for 1/5 the cost. The only reason I think they’ll bring Hines back is our lack of backs in the organization that know the offense. Re-sign Johnson as the power back and re-sign Hines as the speed back & kick returner (depending on his knee) at a greatly reduced cap hit and Beane will call it a day. Draft 2 WRs, one early and one late to go with Diggs, Shakir and maybe Shorter. Don't quote me on this but I could have sworn i heard that Hines will be back next year, he filed something with his lawyer stating he wouldn't come after the Bills for money (I believe a greivance or something along those lines were filed since he was injured) that the Bills can't just cut him outright but he'll be given a chance to make the team in training camp, whther they cut him after that is their right or not so he will be given a chance to still make the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I’m totally in the Troy Franklin camp But We cannot deny that we have a huge problem forming on the defensive line What wide receiver would be available in the second if they ended up going defensive line in the first It’s not what I would do but it might be what beane will do 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 11 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said: hes coming off brutal injury at a position that ages like milk.... KR is basically a non-existent position starting this year (had already been trending that way). im not even saying retain harty at all cost, but i am saying i want nothing to do with hines and his contract, and am open to bradys input on deonte in HIS offense, as we saw what dorsey did to our entire offense. dude rubber band castrated josh allen and j-cook, took all of 1 week to change what we saw months of I covered the reasons in another thread, but it's not going to happen. I'd imagine he takes a paycut. But Hines is going to get Training Camp to show whether or not he's still got it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Sign me up for Jermaine Burton. He looks like a DJ Moore clone and that is good enough for me. Just not sure if he is a complete head case or not with all the teams he has bounced around on but he looks to be a plug and play wr that could make an immediate impact for us next year and you might be able to land him in the second round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, racketmaster said: Sign me up for Jermaine Burton. He looks like a DJ Moore clone and that is good enough for me. Just not sure if he is a complete head case or not with all the teams he has bounced around on but he looks to be a plug and play wr that could make an immediate impact for us next year and you might be able to land him in the second round. Wouldn't mind him in the 3rd or 4th rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: Wouldn't mind him in the 3rd or 4th rd I’m not sure he will make it that far but wr class is deep so who knows. If he checks out as someone that can fit in our locker room and culture, he would be a tremendous talent to add. I like him a lot because he appears ready to play and could make an immediate impact which would be worth a 2nd in my mind, especially since it would be a late second round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, racketmaster said: I’m not sure he will make it that far but wr class is deep so who knows. If he checks out as someone that can fit in our locker room and culture, he would be a tremendous talent to add. I like him a lot because he appears ready to play and could make an immediate impact which would be worth a 2nd in my mind, especially since it would be a late second round pick. I wouldn't take him in the 2nd but do like him as a player and he very well can be a 3rd Rd pk. Like u said this yrs class is loaded. Even last yr class there was still good Wrs in the 3rd like Tank Dell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 27 minutes ago, racketmaster said: Sign me up for Jermaine Burton. He looks like a DJ Moore clone and that is good enough for me. Just not sure if he is a complete head case or not with all the teams he has bounced around on but he looks to be a plug and play wr that could make an immediate impact for us next year and you might be able to land him in the second round. Burton is an under appreciated WR. The Bama passing offense was a mess this year and so he did not collect the numbers others did. He had 3 touchdowns in the Texas game and all but one got called back because of offensive penalties. He has phenomenal hands - I haven’t seen him drop a pass this year. He is tough and willing to take hits to make the play like the TD he had against Tennessee. And he is an explosive athlete who can stretch the field from out wide well (over 20 ypc this season). I don’t think he is as explosive as DJ Moore, but I think he is a better version of Marvin Mims who went at the end of the second last year. He seems to be crowded out by other prospects among the talking heads but I think he is an early round 2 WR talent wise you may be able to get later. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said: Well, I can see that, but also, we have some spare picks late in the draft (see below). Might be worth a flier over a Luke Tenuta or a Dez Lewis... Just sayin'. Figured we should probably take this to the WR thread. I'm all for us using two early picks, and even a late round pick on WR this year. That group truly needs an overhaul and infusion of youth. There's a guy that's in that 5th Round range I'm keeping an eye on and see as a sleeper. Joshua Cephus of UTSA. The young man is 6'3" and about 185lbs. Good with contested catches, flashes some speed and RAC ability in the open field, and he's got a little twitch to his game that gets him separation on quick breaking routes. His route tree can use some developing and he has dropped a pass here or there, but he's also made some pretty spectacular plays on occasion and would be an asset in the red zone. Could be worth a shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, H2o said: Figured we should probably take this to the WR thread. I'm all for us using two early picks, and even a late round pick on WR this year. That group truly needs an overhaul and infusion of youth. There's a guy that's in that 5th Round range I'm keeping an eye on and see as a sleeper. Joshua Cephus of UTSA. The young man is 6'3" and about 185lbs. Good with contested catches, flashes some speed and RAC ability in the open field, and he's got a little twitch to his game that gets him separation on quick breaking routes. His route tree can use some developing and he has dropped a pass here or there, but he's also made some pretty spectacular plays on occasion and would be an asset in the red zone. Could be worth a shot. Yeah, at the rate we're going, that's probably a good call. I'm working up some notes that I'll post over there in a bit. I've heard Cephus' name come up in a couple of the reports I've been going through, but I hadn't watched any highlights. Definitely has the height and burst you like to see. A little stiff in the hips. Gives me some Gabe Davis vibes, which--for a late round flier--isn't a negative. I'll have to dig more into him. Thanks for the share! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 10 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I’m totally in the Troy Franklin camp But We cannot deny that we have a huge problem forming on the defensive line What wide receiver would be available in the second if they ended up going defensive line in the first It’s not what I would do but it might be what beane will do We’d probably have to trade up at least 10 spots in rd 2 to get a WR worthy of what we need. Maybe 15-20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 8 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: I covered the reasons in another thread, but it's not going to happen. I'd imagine he takes a paycut. But Hines is going to get Training Camp to show whether or not he's still got it. I mean it better be an appreciable pay cut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 10 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I’m totally in the Troy Franklin camp But We cannot deny that we have a huge problem forming on the defensive line What wide receiver would be available in the second if they ended up going defensive line in the first It’s not what I would do but it might be what beane will do 1 minute ago, NewEra said: We’d probably have to trade up at least 10 spots in rd 2 to get a WR worthy of what we need. Maybe 15-20 One scenario I've been noodling on is this: In this scenario Beane has a list tier prospects that he considers "top end, would be the #1 on most teams almost immediately, will likely replace Diggs as a #1 sooner than later" and another tier that is "can start at #2, is going to need 2-3 years of seasoning before I think he's going to surpass Diggs" If Tier 1 is empty by the low 20s, and there are 5-6 guys on Tier 2 I would not be upset if he trades back to top end of the 1st round (Carolina or another desperate teams wants a shot at a QB, someone like the Commanders or Titans has fallen in love with a prospect Beane is meh on) to rack up more picks and work on the D-line and S with multiple picks in the 2nd and 3rd. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 22 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: One scenario I've been noodling on is this: In this scenario Beane has a list tier prospects that he considers "top end, would be the #1 on most teams almost immediately, will likely replace Diggs as a #1 sooner than later" and another tier that is "can start at #2, is going to need 2-3 years of seasoning before I think he's going to surpass Diggs" If Tier 1 is empty by the low 20s, and there are 5-6 guys on Tier 2 I would not be upset if he trades back to top end of the 1st round (Carolina or another desperate teams wants a shot at a QB, someone like the Commanders or Titans has fallen in love with a prospect Beane is meh on) to rack up more picks and work on the D-line and S with multiple picks in the 2nd and 3rd. Agreed. The more I watch of the prospects, I’m not enamored with any of the WRs that will be there when we pick (I’m in the camp that thinks Thomas Jr and Troy Franklin will be gone by 28). I view Mitchell, Coleman, Leggette, worthy, McConkey and the rest as rd 2 guys. Problem being, I think all of those guys will be gone within the first 10 picks of rd 2. Trading down a few spots and getting more picks and options for maneuverability later in the draft makes a lot of sense (if Thomas and Franklin are gone). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, H2o said: Figured we should probably take this to the WR thread. I'm all for us using two early picks, and even a late round pick on WR this year. That group truly needs an overhaul and infusion of youth. There's a guy that's in that 5th Round range I'm keeping an eye on and see as a sleeper. Joshua Cephus of UTSA. The young man is 6'3" and about 185lbs. Good with contested catches, flashes some speed and RAC ability in the open field, and he's got a little twitch to his game that gets him separation on quick breaking routes. His route tree can use some developing and he has dropped a pass here or there, but he's also made some pretty spectacular plays on occasion and would be an asset in the red zone. Could be worth a shot. We need to restock the wr position with some young, cheap talent. With the position being deep this year, I’m all for using 2 picks on wr in first 3-4 rounds and then taking a third in the later rounds. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 16 hours ago, JaCrispy said: At the moment I’d be good with either Franklin or Worthy…👍 I’ll take both, please and thank you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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