Patriots at Bills postgame thread

[Since1981]

A win in 6 days and Bills are #2 AFC entering the bracket. 
 

a few people in here need to calm down and take their meds. 

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Let's dig deeper into what I said and your response. Your sarcasm is screaming out the page.

 

Funny that you mention "my sarcasm" when I either quoted or slightly paraphrased what you wrote.  I would say your negativity did the screaming, I just opened the window to make it easily heard.  I grant you didn't say our OC sucks, but I think that's a reasonable paraphrase of "his play calling and scheme seems to be faltering".

 

12 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

How do you think Allen played? 

 

Did you see consistent WR separation? Has it been an issue this season? Even Diggs is on the discussion now. That's pretty concerning. Agree? 

 

OC sucks? I didn't imply that. Is it daur to say that there's more tape on his style and play calling. Maybe teams are looking at his tendencies and making adjustments. The offensive pass game certainly isn't clicking like it can. You can elaborate on why or why not. I'm just pointing out a valid concern here. Obviously, you don't want to discuss it. Joe Marino has been discussing it for weeks now. So take his word not mine. 

 

The Pats have one of the best run defenses in the league. As a result, I didn't think the Bills would be as successful running the ball. Not sure how that is a crazy thought. The Cowboy game really doesn't equate to success vs NE. 

 

Lastly, this Bills team just seems a little off this year. Inconsistent from game to game quarter to quarter. I think that's a fair statement. That inconsistency can lead to a wide range of results. My eyes just don't see a SB team here. Of course, you disagree and I respect that. My opinion isn't fact nor do I portray it as fact. 

 

Nevertheless, I will be pumped watching the Bills next week. Huge game!!!

 

You're probably going to dismiss this response as waffling, but I've been very consistent in this and folks who've forgotten more football than I've ever known can confirm - I am very up-front about saying that I can not judge things like WR separation, play calling and design, and even QB play from the televised broadcast.  I don't have the deep football knowledge that can pick out stuff like what the defensive coverage is based on how the LB and nickel are positioned or even how they're standing pre-snap.  I need all-22 and a detailed look at the offensive and defensive alignment pre-snap, the route combos being run, and so forth. 

 

Then I can start to see things like WR separation, how much time there was for the play to develop, whether there were open receivers who might have been a higher-percentage throw, and so forth and I start to be willing to have an opinion. 

 

I heard it said over and over here there were no open WR for Josh (under Dorsey) and when looking at the all-22 there were in fact short outlet receivers open and sometimes other receivers open.  Then we have to look at the sequence - were they open at the point where Josh had to make a decision? or had he already rolled out of the pocket to the opposite side? Then stuff it's frankly beyond my level of football acumen (and apparently, beyond the level of former NFL QB like Warner and O'Sullivan) to know, like what was the sequence of reads?

I have the impression that our OC, Brady, did make adjustments in the 2nd half that helped the passing game.

I also have the impression that teams are playing a lot more man against us this season.  This is a problem for two reasons: because teams were showing man but really playing half-and-half coverage, or showing man but then dropping into zone, I think the Bills made a tactical decision to not change plays but rather to incorporate a man-beater and a zone-beater into almost every play (I could be wrong here, this is just what I see).  The problem with this is more than 1 guy has to be able to beat man coverage consistently.  It works, so teams keep using it.

As far as the Pats run D, you always got to take those rankings with a bit of a salt shaker and look at who did, and didn't, have rushing success against the Pats.  The Jets, Colts, Giants, and Chargers ran all over NE - these aren't top rushing teams, though they're teams with a capable rush offense.  The Bills put up 93 yds in our first game against them and 103 yds yesterday.  They are 8th for Y/A and 9th for Y/G, and Josh is the #2 rusher - by a LOT.  The Bills quietly seem to have a rushing offense this season.  So no, it wasn't a big surprise to me, or I feel for people studying the game enough to have strong opinions.

I agree with you that consistency has been a huge problem for the Bills this season.  They have absolutely lost games they could have, and arguably should have, won.  All of their losses have been 1-score games, and in (I think) 3 of them the Bills had the lead and the D couldn't get the needed stop.  But the Bills were in that position because their offense wasn't clicking in several of those games.  It's a fair point.

The thing is, I believe most teams have their inconsistent moments and their moments of getting flat out whupped.  The Ravens are red-hot right now, which can make it easy to overlook that they got stifled by the Colts and the lowly Steelers, and stymied by the Browns.  The 12-4 49ers have been a juggernaught at times, but they had a 3 game skid involving losses to the "OK" Vikes and the somehow very-good Browns, then got whalloped by the Bengals and Ravens.

 

"My eyes just don't see a SB team here".  I don't know what to say to that.  In 2021, the Bengals were 10-7 when they beat the Chiefs in the AFCCG after 13 seconds and then lost to the Rams - who if I recall correctly, had to sneak in through the WC route and had a decimated secondary where they literally called up a guy who was out of football for a year to play safety in that game and he wound up with the green dot calling the plays for the secondary even.  In 2020, TB was 11-5 and Brady threw three (3) picks against GB in the AFCCG.  I did NOT see a Superbowl team there....and yet....

 

My point is I apparently don't know what is or isn't a Superbowl team when I see it.  A lot depends on who gets hot at the right time. 

 

First things first: Win and Get In.

 

You really surprise me when you say you will be pumped during the game.  I used (for my sins) to read the gameday threads assiduously and my impression is that you were consistently a "negative nancy" therein.

 

Apologies if I missed one of your questions

[Comebackkid]

I

16 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair to Beane, once a team is paying full salary at 4 key positions (QB, WR, Edge, and CB) he really can’t afford to be going for a second “proven player” at WR.  He’s either drafting or going for guys he thinks can make a jump.

 

And I thought most folks thought Beane had finally done significant moves on OL

 

Now should Beane have done some cap manipulations to bring in someone better in FA or put a little more draft capital into it sure.

I've always tried to be a beane fan.   Think he is a great guy for the most part.   My issue is he is more than willing to over pay for low end talent on offense

over and over and over yet he wont pay a little more to get a difference maker.   Some where I think the Bills also have problems with player evaluation.   

(what are they worth, where and how can they be used)

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, Since1981 said:

A win in 6 days and Bills are #2 AFC entering the bracket. 
 

a few people in here need to calm down and take their meds. 

Yay AFC chumps BIG DEAL. This team with this lackluster offense is not a Super Bowl winner 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just had a good laugh watching back the Bills game. Taylor Rapp needs to chill. On Douglas’ pick six Rapp nearly kills Jordan Poyer. Out of control all the time. 😂

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

9 hours ago, Billznut said:

It happens every week around here. You’ve never noticed that?  That’s hard to believe. 

Of course I noticed lol

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just had a good laugh watching back the Bills game. Taylor Rapp needs to chill. On Douglas’ pick six Rapp nearly kills Jordan Poyer. Out of control all the time. 😂

 

 

 

He's kind of like a cannon he does a specific job well, but you damn well better aim well.

[Warcodered]

impending AFC defensive player of the week.

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Funny that you mention "my sarcasm" when I either quoted or slightly paraphrased what you wrote.  I would say your negativity did the screaming, I just opened the window to make it easily heard.  I grant you didn't say our OC sucks, but I think that's a reasonable paraphrase of "his play calling and scheme seems to be faltering".

 

 

You're probably going to dismiss this response as waffling, but I've been very consistent in this and folks who've forgotten more football than I've ever known can confirm - I am very up-front about saying that I can not judge things like WR separation, play calling and design, and even QB play from the televised broadcast.  I don't have the deep football knowledge that can pick out stuff like what the defensive coverage is based on how the LB and nickel are positioned or even how they're standing pre-snap.  I need all-22 and a detailed look at the offensive and defensive alignment pre-snap, the route combos being run, and so forth. 

 

Then I can start to see things like WR separation, how much time there was for the play to develop, whether there were open receivers who might have been a higher-percentage throw, and so forth and I start to be willing to have an opinion. 

 

I heard it said over and over here there were no open WR for Josh (under Dorsey) and when looking at the all-22 there were in fact short outlet receivers open and sometimes other receivers open.  Then we have to look at the sequence - were they open at the point where Josh had to make a decision? or had he already rolled out of the pocket to the opposite side? Then stuff it's frankly beyond my level of football acumen (and apparently, beyond the level of former NFL QB like Warner and O'Sullivan) to know, like what was the sequence of reads?

I have the impression that our OC, Brady, did make adjustments in the 2nd half that helped the passing game.

I also have the impression that teams are playing a lot more man against us this season.  This is a problem for two reasons: because teams were showing man but really playing half-and-half coverage, or showing man but then dropping into zone, I think the Bills made a tactical decision to not change plays but rather to incorporate a man-beater and a zone-beater into almost every play (I could be wrong here, this is just what I see).  The problem with this is more than 1 guy has to be able to beat man coverage consistently.  It works, so teams keep using it.

As far as the Pats run D, you always got to take those rankings with a bit of a salt shaker and look at who did, and didn't, have rushing success against the Pats.  The Jets, Colts, Giants, and Chargers ran all over NE - these aren't top rushing teams, though they're teams with a capable rush offense.  The Bills put up 93 yds in our first game against them and 103 yds yesterday.  They are 8th for Y/A and 9th for Y/G, and Josh is the #2 rusher - by a LOT.  The Bills quietly seem to have a rushing offense this season.  So no, it wasn't a big surprise to me, or I feel for people studying the game enough to have strong opinions.

I agree with you that consistency has been a huge problem for the Bills this season.  They have absolutely lost games they could have, and arguably should have, won.  All of their losses have been 1-score games, and in (I think) 3 of them the Bills had the lead and the D couldn't get the needed stop.  But the Bills were in that position because their offense wasn't clicking in several of those games.  It's a fair point.

The thing is, I believe most teams have their inconsistent moments and their moments of getting flat out whupped.  The Ravens are red-hot right now, which can make it easy to overlook that they got stifled by the Colts and the lowly Steelers, and stymied by the Browns.  The 12-4 49ers have been a juggernaught at times, but they had a 3 game skid involving losses to the "OK" Vikes and the somehow very-good Browns, then got whalloped by the Bengals and Ravens.

 

"My eyes just don't see a SB team here".  I don't know what to say to that.  In 2021, the Bengals were 10-7 when they beat the Chiefs in the AFCCG after 13 seconds and then lost to the Rams - who if I recall correctly, had to sneak in through the WC route and had a decimated secondary where they literally called up a guy who was out of football for a year to play safety in that game and he wound up with the green dot calling the plays for the secondary even.  In 2020, TB was 11-5 and Brady threw three (3) picks against GB in the AFCCG.  I did NOT see a Superbowl team there....and yet....

 

My point is I apparently don't know what is or isn't a Superbowl team when I see it.  A lot depends on who gets hot at the right time. 

 

First things first: Win and Get In.

 

You really surprise me when you say you will be pumped during the game.  I used (for my sins) to read the gameday threads assiduously and my impression is that you were consistently a "negative nancy" therein.

 

Apologies if I missed one of your questions

Great post and read! 

 

First and foremost I am a Bills fan to the max!

 

Unfortunately, I see the glass half empty and I wish I wasn't this way. Perhaps, it's because I'm haunted by the past failures of the team? Perhaps it's in my DNA? 

 

This forum definitely helps me see things in another light.  That is a positive. Unfortunately, my thinking usually meets it with resistance. No argument there. Thus, the "negative Nancy" certainly isn't an invalid description although not pleasant. 

 

I do think I'm over the top. However, I do think much of my criticisms are valid. No need for comments 

 

Nevertheless, I'm really not here to defend myself or my posts. I'm here because I am a fan of the Buffalo Bills!!! Always have been and always will.

 

We all have the same goal of wanting that Lombardi Trophy hoisted in Buffalo.  Seeing the rabid fans going crazy at the airport, seeing the parade, seeing a town and community in ecstasy, and fulfilling a life long dream. Yes it's only football and entertainment. I get that. But how sweet would it be to reach the top?

 

Just one before I die...

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's not "slightly disappointed and concerned about the offense" or "critical of the Bills O" that are causing exception, and I think you know this.

 

It's stuff like vomit emojis and unrelentingly negative posts about how the QB was poor, the WR can't separate, the OC's play calling and scheme are bad, and the team doesn't have the makeup or talent to make a deep playoff run.

 

If you play that stuff backwards, your dog comes back to life and your stolen truck pulls into your driveway.

 

 

That was funny.  Who was it who jumped on Shakir's back?  I gotta say Diggs didn't look too happy, though if he's gutting through something, he may have been jonesing for the treatment room.

That's fair. I know I pound the drum way too much. That's way I was in time out. I didn't agree with the decision but I'm powerless. It sucked to be away. It was a humbling experience and I hope to be better going forward. 

 

Now let's beat Miami! I don't even want to think about missing the playoffs. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:41 AM, Beck Water said:

 

Wait, wat?  That happened this season.  It's one of the games that's the reason why we're playing for the Division and the #2 seed instead of talking about whether we'll rest our starters.  In what way is the Eagles game, or the Jax game for that matter, not part of this?

 

Just to be clear, though, I think you took my post as directed at you.  When I said "some people" I literally meant it - I was framing a general response.

 

 

Hear you again and good post, Beck.

 

I don’t put the Eagles game on because there was better semblance of the passing game.

 

Right now our passing game looks like Rain Man had a baby with Sybil and named it Mr. Magoo.

 

Not just an Allen thing, but Allen, Brady, Diggs and the others.  Something is wrong, but even in a loss to the Eagles it was working and in terrible conditions.

 

1 game is meh.  2 is a little bit of a trend.  This run has been going on primary during the last bit, albeit we’ve been winning.

 

 

Edited January 3 by dollars 2 donuts

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just had a good laugh watching back the Bills game. Taylor Rapp needs to chill. On Douglas’ pick six Rapp nearly kills Jordan Poyer. Out of control all the time. 😂

 

 

Rapp probably knew that Poyer was going to commit a STUPID late hit out of bounds penalty later in the game 😎

[Warcodered]

 

This one is probably going to be good too this week.

Edited January 2 by Warcodered

[Nitro]

20 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

75% seems way way to high. 

Really well put. I agree 100%. 

 

 

Bills have the edge in being healthier.   IMO

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Nitro said:

Bills have the edge in being healthier.   IMO

75% is a lot than an edge. 

[ndirish1978]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:43 AM, Beck Water said:

 

Funny that you mention "my sarcasm" when I either quoted or slightly paraphrased what you wrote.  I would say your negativity did the screaming, I just opened the window to make it easily heard.  I grant you didn't say our OC sucks, but I think that's a reasonable paraphrase of "his play calling and scheme seems to be faltering".

 

 

You're probably going to dismiss this response as waffling, but I've been very consistent in this and folks who've forgotten more football than I've ever known can confirm - I am very up-front about saying that I can not judge things like WR separation, play calling and design, and even QB play from the televised broadcast.  I don't have the deep football knowledge that can pick out stuff like what the defensive coverage is based on how the LB and nickel are positioned or even how they're standing pre-snap.  I need all-22 and a detailed look at the offensive and defensive alignment pre-snap, the route combos being run, and so forth. 

 

Then I can start to see things like WR separation, how much time there was for the play to develop, whether there were open receivers who might have been a higher-percentage throw, and so forth and I start to be willing to have an opinion. 

 

I heard it said over and over here there were no open WR for Josh (under Dorsey) and when looking at the all-22 there were in fact short outlet receivers open and sometimes other receivers open.  Then we have to look at the sequence - were they open at the point where Josh had to make a decision? or had he already rolled out of the pocket to the opposite side? Then stuff it's frankly beyond my level of football acumen (and apparently, beyond the level of former NFL QB like Warner and O'Sullivan) to know, like what was the sequence of reads?

I have the impression that our OC, Brady, did make adjustments in the 2nd half that helped the passing game.

I also have the impression that teams are playing a lot more man against us this season.  This is a problem for two reasons: because teams were showing man but really playing half-and-half coverage, or showing man but then dropping into zone, I think the Bills made a tactical decision to not change plays but rather to incorporate a man-beater and a zone-beater into almost every play (I could be wrong here, this is just what I see).  The problem with this is more than 1 guy has to be able to beat man coverage consistently.  It works, so teams keep using it.

As far as the Pats run D, you always got to take those rankings with a bit of a salt shaker and look at who did, and didn't, have rushing success against the Pats.  The Jets, Colts, Giants, and Chargers ran all over NE - these aren't top rushing teams, though they're teams with a capable rush offense.  The Bills put up 93 yds in our first game against them and 103 yds yesterday.  They are 8th for Y/A and 9th for Y/G, and Josh is the #2 rusher - by a LOT.  The Bills quietly seem to have a rushing offense this season.  So no, it wasn't a big surprise to me, or I feel for people studying the game enough to have strong opinions.

I agree with you that consistency has been a huge problem for the Bills this season.  They have absolutely lost games they could have, and arguably should have, won.  All of their losses have been 1-score games, and in (I think) 3 of them the Bills had the lead and the D couldn't get the needed stop.  But the Bills were in that position because their offense wasn't clicking in several of those games.  It's a fair point.

The thing is, I believe most teams have their inconsistent moments and their moments of getting flat out whupped.  The Ravens are red-hot right now, which can make it easy to overlook that they got stifled by the Colts and the lowly Steelers, and stymied by the Browns.  The 12-4 49ers have been a juggernaught at times, but they had a 3 game skid involving losses to the "OK" Vikes and the somehow very-good Browns, then got whalloped by the Bengals and Ravens.

 

"My eyes just don't see a SB team here".  I don't know what to say to that.  In 2021, the Bengals were 10-7 when they beat the Chiefs in the AFCCG after 13 seconds and then lost to the Rams - who if I recall correctly, had to sneak in through the WC route and had a decimated secondary where they literally called up a guy who was out of football for a year to play safety in that game and he wound up with the green dot calling the plays for the secondary even.  In 2020, TB was 11-5 and Brady threw three (3) picks against GB in the AFCCG.  I did NOT see a Superbowl team there....and yet....

 

My point is I apparently don't know what is or isn't a Superbowl team when I see it.  A lot depends on who gets hot at the right time. 

 

First things first: Win and Get In.

 

You really surprise me when you say you will be pumped during the game.  I used (for my sins) to read the gameday threads assiduously and my impression is that you were consistently a "negative nancy" therein.

 

Apologies if I missed one of your questions

 

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

 

 

I mean seriously - if you don't want to read a long post, what on earth do you think you're accomplishing by announcing that to the world?  How about this - if you don't want to read something, just...DON'T READ IT.

Edited January 3 by Beck Water

[ndirish1978]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I mean seriously - if you don't want to read a long post, what on earth do you think you're accomplishing by announcing that to the world?  How about this - if you don't want to read something, just...DON'T READ IT.

 

It's mocking you for taking yourself so seriously. Must have gone over your head because you presume people are hanging on your every word. That's gotta be the longest post I've seen on here that included zero facts and all defensive opinions. 

 

Edited January 3 by ndirish1978

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

It's mocking you for taking yourself so seriously. Must have gone over your head because you presume people are hanging on your every word

 

 

LOL.  OKay.

[Beck Water]

On 1/1/2024 at 2:51 PM, newcam2012 said:

Great post and read! 

 

First and foremost I am a Bills fan to the max!

 

Unfortunately, I see the glass half empty and I wish I wasn't this way. Perhaps, it's because I'm haunted by the past failures of the team? Perhaps it's in my DNA? 

 

This forum definitely helps me see things in another light.  That is a positive. Unfortunately, my thinking usually meets it with resistance. No argument there. Thus, the "negative Nancy" certainly isn't an invalid description although not pleasant. 

 

I do think I'm over the top. However, I do think much of my criticisms are valid. No need for comments 

 

Nevertheless, I'm really not here to defend myself or my posts. I'm here because I am a fan of the Buffalo Bills!!! Always have been and always will.

 

We all have the same goal of wanting that Lombardi Trophy hoisted in Buffalo.  Seeing the rabid fans going crazy at the airport, seeing the parade, seeing a town and community in ecstasy, and fulfilling a life long dream. Yes it's only football and entertainment. I get that. But how sweet would it be to reach the top?

 

Just one before I die...

That's fair. I know I pound the drum way too much. That's way I was in time out. I didn't agree with the decision but I'm powerless. It sucked to be away. It was a humbling experience and I hope to be better going forward. 

 

Now let's beat Miami! I don't even want to think about missing the playoffs. 

 

I just want to say it's been a pleasure to have some positive exchange with you, and realize that whatever the differences, we're both Bills fans under the skin.

 

There are a number of realistic and valid criticisms to be made.  I make 'em myself at times!  Just realize that when they're met with a lot of resistance, it might not be that criticism per se is met with resistance here - a bunch of us critique all the time.  It's more when they're seen as unbalanced or over the top that they're met with more resistance.

 

I've been a Bills fan since the mid-'60s.  I was "just one before my Grandfather dies" and then he passed and it was "just one before I die".  So I get that.

[newcam2012]

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I just want to say it's been a pleasure to have some positive exchange with you, and realize that whatever the differences, we're both Bills fans under the skin.

 

There are a number of realistic and valid criticisms to be made.  I make 'em myself at times!  Just realize that when they're met with a lot of resistance, it might not be that criticism per se is met with resistance here - a bunch of us critique all the time.  It's more when they're seen as unbalanced or over the top that they're met with more resistance.

 

I've been a Bills fan since the mid-'60s.  I was "just one before my Grandfather dies" and then he passed and it was "just one before I die".  So I get that.

I want the Bills to beat Miami so bad!!! I can't even put it in words. 

 

My heart will be beating rapidly. I suspect a close game but a Bills blowout would be ecstasy. 

 

Great post too! 

[Jauronimo]

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/01/02/bedards-breakdown-defense-had-it-moments-but-josh-allen-was-responsible-for-patriots-not-getting-blown-out

 

This breakdown of Allen's day was pretty damning.  The video breakdown is excellent.

[Simon]

On 1/1/2024 at 3:24 AM, newcam2012 said:

So much as to get thrown into the penalty box for giving valid opinions. 

 

This is a 100% bullspit and you are well aware of it.

As you were told at the time, you were put in the penalty box for dropping nearly 100 posts in a single day after being repeatedly asked to dial it back because you were annoying other members of this community with your ongoing repetitive crusade.

I've got enough stuff to deal with; don't come in here telling lies about the work I'm putting in.

 

[newcam2012]

13 hours ago, Simon said:

 

This is a 100% bullspit and you are well aware of it.

As you were told at the time, you were put in the penalty box for dropping nearly 100 posts in a single day after being repeatedly asked to dial it back because you were annoying other members of this community with your ongoing repetitive crusade.

I've got enough stuff to deal with; don't come in here telling lies about the work I'm putting in.

 

Have I improved after the time out?