Beane's draft record - with several players emerging, has your opinion changed at all?

[Dopey]

Looking at the votes on a few polls, it’s easy to see that the lynch mob is smaller in number than it appears here. The lynch mob is very vocal, though. Way to represent. 

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Forget out team record this year (there are a lot of factors in that)...but one silver lining has been we have seen a lot of young players begin to emerge into good to even great players for us this year.  

 

So I am curious if the emergence of these young players, many of which were written off or not thought much of prior to the start of the season, has impacted people's view of his draft history.  Personally, I already thought Beane had done well in the draft...but he obviously still had his fair share of critics around here. 

 

Some of those players include:  AJE, Bernard, Benford, Shakir, Cook, Kincaid, O'Cyrus, Dorian, and even Oliver to an extent.  

• AJE - (2nd round)A long time whipping boy around here despite having a mini breakout last year with 6.5 sacks in a rotational role.  He has become a very good player for us this season already matching his sack total last year and on pace for 10 sacks, plus he has an INT and defensive TD.  
• Bernard - (3rd round)Labeled a bust by many the moment he was drafted and considered a major liability by most heading into this season.  But he has been one of the defenses best players for this team on the season.
• Benford - (6th round) Seen as a guy only playing because Elam wasn't ready to winning the 3 way battle and playing like a starting corner.
• Shakir - (5th round) Disregarded by many just because he fell to the 5th round, falsely labeled by many of not having good hands mostly because of one tough catch in the playoff last year.  Now he is becoming a staple in the offense with his snap count rising from 10% week 1 to now 80% nearly this week.  Has the best catch rate on the team.  
• Cook - (2nd round) Considered a change of pace 3rd down back with little value as a featured runner.  Currently 2nd in the NFL in rushing yards despite Dorsey's struggle with consistently involving him and looking like a long term important player for this offense right now.
• Kincaid - (1st round) He did have a lot of hype, but was too early to know, but he is proving that hype is legit and now the 2nd best receiving weapon on the team.  
• O'Cyrus - (2nd round) Instant starter and while he has had some rookie struggles, he has really made an impact on the OL for the most part. 
• Oliver - (1st round) Most were against his extension, now he not only is proving he was worth it, he has become one of the elite DT's in the NFL this year under McD's defense.  

 

So has this impacted your view of his draft history seeing these guys really start to emerge and breakout this year?  

 

NOTE:  I think AJE, Cook, and O'Cyrus play is getting to the point that the old "Beane can't draft in the 2nd round" criticism is headed for retirement.  

 

For the record, my vote was:

B Grade

A Grade

Better

How dare you 💩 on the lynch mob?!?

No one gets a chance to develop here. Didn’t you get the memo?  
I’m with you %100. 

[Chaos]

9 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Looking at the votes on a few polls, it’s easy to see that the lynch mob is smaller in number than it appears here. The lynch mob is very vocal, though. Way to represent. 

How dare you 💩 on the lynch mob?!?

No one gets a chance to develop here. Didn’t you get the memo?  
I’m with you %100. 

Its not really a lynch mob. Not everyone agrees on the measure of a draft success.  For example. 

Devin Singletary - 3rd round pick, four seasons with the Bills, 3100 yards. Left team without futher compensation to the Bills.   This was a good pick.   Not bad, not great.  If he goes on to a hall of fame career as a Texan, that does not change in the slightest the level of production the Bills got from the pick. 

 

Isaiah Pacheco - a guy with practically the same level of production as Singletary. Very similar results, but by the nature of being a 7th round draft pick it is reasonable to call this a great Draft pick. 

For whats it is worth, Since Beane figured out how to get Josh Allen, I would never consider Beane below a good drafter in terms of career results. Allen is a lifetime achievement award for Beane as far as I am concerned.   I think McDermott could possibly be replaced with a better head coach.  I think it is very unlikely the Bills could replace Beane with a better GM.  The Eagles and Chiefs GMs are better, with better results.  No other GMs in the league are clearly better. Most are worse than Beane. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Serious question - could Elam possibly play safety?  I know he is a man to man corner, but he has good size and speed and could have tremendous range back there if he has the instincts.

[John from Riverside]

The guy has been GM of the year

 

Yes, he’s good

[Logic]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I do also personally think trading draft picks for Diggs should count on his draft performance.  Diggs is the palyer he netted with picks, and that trade had plenty of skeptics and critics too when it happened.  

 

Flipping picks to land an elite player that impacted this team as much as Diggs did is as much a homerun as drafting one IMHO.  

That's fair, Alpha, and I don't disagree that acquiring a player using a draft pick should count the same as drafting him, more or less.

The only nit I would pick is that the 1st round pick used to get Stefon Diggs was ultimately used to pick Justin Jefferson, who is arguably the best WR in the league, and is still just 24 years old. So the Bills would have had arguably a better (or, at the minimum, just as good) receiver, who's 5 years younger. They would have had him on a rookie contract for four to five seasons, freeing up the big bucks during those years that were allocated to Diggs.

I know, I know: Diggs has been a culture builder and team leader, and has brought out the best in Josh, and we can't be sure that Jefferson would have done any of those things, etc, etc...I understand all of that. Still, I can't help but wonder what a Josh Allen to Justin Jefferson connection could have looked like for 15 or so years. Could have been a historically great QB-WR connection.

So yes, I believe it's fair to count trades that Beane made using draft picks in his favor, but only if one also considers who was picked in the spot he traded out of. And in this case, the player picked in the spot he traded out of takes a little bit of the shine off of his trade.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Logic

[Success]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not trying to be that guy, but the Elam pick still baffles me. Hard to believe he can’t even get on the field. Theres gotta be something more to the story. 

 

We did find out he's been injured this season, and it sounds like since the start.  He played well in his moments last year, so it might not be more than that.

 

He is only 22 still.  Given that a few other picks have been late bloomers, here's hoping he's an impact guy for us in the future.

 

[ProcessImproverMan]

I'd much rather have John Lynch as a GM (49ers) or the Eagles guy or Chiefs guy...they seem to have hit on more picks and free agents. Their teams have made it to super bowls and not fallen out before like Marty Schottenheimer like teams. 

 

Rousseau isn't putting up the sack numbers worth the pick on him. Von Miller has been a huge waste. Oliver isn't either and we passed on much better DTs and other positional  players when taking him (Dexter Lawrence was available who is a monster DT, as well as Jaire Alexander (stud corner) and Fred Warner who has been a stud MLB for the 49ers and would have been much better than the failed Edmunds experiment). Elam has been a bust. We took Cody Ford over Metcalf and then had to spend a draft pick to get Diggs which is what Metcalf would have given us (better explosive deep threat). And we took Boogie Basham over Creed Humphrey who is a stud center. And gave up Wyatt Teller. All those moves have been very bad and our offensive line and defense has suffered for it particularly, as well as our explosive deep ball game. 

[Nephilim17]

Oliver's consistently great play and the emergence of Bernard significantly reframe the past drafts.

 

And if Kincaid continues his trajectory and Torrence remains solid, the latest draft will be a success.

 

I was thinking Beane had been average (Elam looms large) but with the what I said above, he can jump to good/very good if Oliver, Kincaid, Torrence and Cook continue their ascent (or consistently dominance for Oliver).

it's ok to be wrong; Beane might be a better drafter than most people here thought. Let's see where we end the season with play.

[DrDawkinstein]

I voted C before and B now, but I could have just as easily voted B and B.

 

Really, it was a B- before this season and has gone up to a solid B+.

 

I dont expect even the best GMs to be perfect, but I can't give him an A because of a couple of picks he should have known better on. Namely, Basham over Humphrey, and the Elam desperation pick. Although I wont argue with anyone who does want to give him an A.

 

But Ed Oliver taking the next step, Cook and Bernard showing they can play, and Kincaid and Torrence stepping right in and playing like experienced vets definitely raises his grade.

 

This coming offseason and draft will be especially crucial. We'll likely be rebuilding most of our secondary (expecting White, Poyer, and Hyde gone), and need to add to the OL (Morse likely gone), AND most importantly find that "next #1WR talent". Will be interesting to see how Beane addresses it all.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[loyal2dagame]

Beane's picking good players,  the problem is almost all need development time and this isn't the NHL or MLB where time is a luxury.

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, MJS said:

Yeah, I LOVED the Lions draft. People here were trashing it for some reason. So weird.

 

Positional value. A linebacker who struggles in coverage and a running back is bad value from two top 20 picks. 

 

I still dislike it. And neither of those players have been that good. 

19 minutes ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

 

Rousseau isn't putting up the sack numbers worth the pick on him. Von Miller has been a huge waste. Oliver isn't either and we passed on much better DTs and other positional  players when taking him (Dexter Lawrence was available who is a monster DT, as well as Jaire Alexander (stud corner) and Fred Warner who has been a stud MLB for the 49ers and would have been much better than the failed Edmunds experiment). Elam has been a bust. We took Cody Ford over Metcalf and then had to spend a draft pick to get Diggs which is what Metcalf would have given us (better explosive deep threat). And we took Boogie Basham over Creed Humphrey who is a stud center. And gave up Wyatt Teller. All those moves have been very bad and our offensive line and defense has suffered for it particularly, as well as our explosive deep ball game. 

 

Ed Oliver is this year. He has been elite this season. 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

Beane's picking good players,  the problem is almost all need development time and this isn't the NHL or MLB where time is a luxury.

 

I believe that was the previous draft strategy when the roster was already PACKED with veterans and most draft picks werent going to be counted on to start. They could pick guys with higher ceilings but needing development work.

 

That has changed, and will definitely change going into next season. And we saw Beane shift to picking players that could play immediately in Kincaid and Torrence.

 

At least I'm hoping that was all on purpose.

[Don Otreply]

I may be off base but,  they take to long to integrate our O side draft picks into playing time on the offense,  

 

just a peeeve on my behalf,

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

I may be off base but,  they take to long to integrate our O side draft picks into playing time on the offense,  

 

just a peeeve on my behalf,

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Cook and Shakir were just drafted last year, and Kincaid and Torrence this year. 🤷‍♂️

[H2o]

We've had some hits and we've had some misses. Trading up in the 1st Round for a CB who was a healthy scratch most of this, his, 2nd year stings. I think he's been good though and my opinion of him remained the same. The needle hasn't quite moved to very good. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Cook and Shakir were just drafted last year, and Kincaid and Torrence this year. 🤷‍♂️

 

I think they under used Cook last year. That is a fair criticisim. Stuck with Singlepurpose too long. Shakir wasn't ready last year. My take on him was always he had talent but he played in a gimmicky offense at Boise where spacing and route running wasn't really a priority and it would take him some time. I said I could see him establishing himself as their starting slot by the end of his rookie year. It took him a little longer, middle of year 2, and after a really worrying camp where he put himself closer to danger than he should have. But he was out there a 3rd of the offensive plays last year. He didn't get the ball because he wasn't open or in the right spot. They got the development curve right with him.

[Pokebball]

We see other coaches lean on rookies earlier than McDermott does.

[Don Otreply]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Cook and Shakir were just drafted last year, and Kincaid and Torrence this year. 🤷‍♂️

I thought Shakir was the year before? 😂
 Like I said I could be off base,  but it seems to appear that both Shakir and Cook we’re under used for a year, “slow to integrate them into offensive playing time”, but hey, I’ve been wrong before, hard as that is to believe 😂

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

[Bob in STL]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Forget out team record this year (there are a lot of factors in that)...but one silver lining has been we have seen a lot of young players begin to emerge into good to even great players for us this year.  

 

So I am curious if the emergence of these young players, many of which were written off or not thought much of prior to the start of the season, has impacted people's view of his draft history.  Personally, I already thought Beane had done well in the draft...but he obviously still had his fair share of critics around here. 

 

Some of those players include:  AJE, Bernard, Benford, Shakir, Cook, Kincaid, O'Cyrus, Dorian, and even Oliver to an extent.  

• AJE - (2nd round)A long time whipping boy around here despite having a mini breakout last year with 6.5 sacks in a rotational role.  He has become a very good player for us this season already matching his sack total last year and on pace for 10 sacks, plus he has an INT and defensive TD.  
• Bernard - (3rd round)Labeled a bust by many the moment he was drafted and considered a major liability by most heading into this season.  But he has been one of the defenses best players for this team on the season.
• Benford - (6th round) Seen as a guy only playing because Elam wasn't ready to winning the 3 way battle and playing like a starting corner.
• Shakir - (5th round) Disregarded by many just because he fell to the 5th round, falsely labeled by many of not having good hands mostly because of one tough catch in the playoff last year.  Now he is becoming a staple in the offense with his snap count rising from 10% week 1 to now 80% nearly this week.  Has the best catch rate on the team.  
• Cook - (2nd round) Considered a change of pace 3rd down back with little value as a featured runner.  Currently 2nd in the NFL in rushing yards despite Dorsey's struggle with consistently involving him and looking like a long term important player for this offense right now.
• Kincaid - (1st round) He did have a lot of hype, but was too early to know, but he is proving that hype is legit and now the 2nd best receiving weapon on the team.  
• O'Cyrus - (2nd round) Instant starter and while he has had some rookie struggles, he has really made an impact on the OL for the most part. 
• Oliver - (1st round) Most were against his extension, now he not only is proving he was worth it, he has become one of the elite DT's in the NFL this year under McD's defense.  

 

So has this impacted your view of his draft history seeing these guys really start to emerge and breakout this year?  

 

NOTE:  I think AJE, Cook, and O'Cyrus play is getting to the point that the old "Beane can't draft in the 2nd round" criticism is headed for retirement.  

 

For the record, my vote was:

B Grade

A Grade

Better

I give Beane a B+ grade before the last draft and I still hold to that, although he is trending up.   

 

My  player summary is much different than yours since I do not buy into the common opinions on fan boards.  

• AJE - (2nd round) In a year with no #1 pick,  always considered him a developmental project pass rusher, he was a diamond in the rough that has a pretty high ceiling if you can get him there.   
• Bernard - (3rd round) Never ever labeled him a bust without seeing him play.  I thought he was a Milano-like pick, same size and similar skill set.   It is looking like he could be a star on the team. 
• Benford - (6th round) He beat out Elam and Jackson  last year for a starting spot.  What is not to love about that from a 6th rounder?   Great pick from the get go but it might also say something about our talent at corner as well.   
• Shakir - (5th round)  Diggs was a 4th rounder.   It takes most receivers a few years to develop and get comfortable.  Shakir is becoming a reliable slot guy that can get deep too.   In the right scheme he will contribute.  
• Cook - (2nd round) Pleasant surprise this season.  I expected more last year and was disappointed,  but looking back now the Dorsey offense has not kind to running backs.  
• Kincaid - (1st round) Loved the pick.  He is only going to get better.  
• O'Cyrus - (2nd round) Loved the pick.  Plug him in and enjoy a solid RG for 10 years.  
• Oliver - (1st round) Has been an up and down player that shows sign of greatness when healthy.   Good pick when looking at the board at the time, he  is now paying off.  

 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they under used Cook last year. That is a fair criticisim. Stuck with Singlepurpose too long. Shakir wasn't ready last year. My take on him was always he had talent but he played in a gimmicky offense at Boise where spacing and route running wasn't really a priority and it would take him some time. I said I could see him establishing himself as their starting slot by the end of his rookie year. It took him a little longer, middle of year 2, and after a really worrying camp where he put himself closer to danger than he should have. But he was out there a 3rd of the offensive plays last year. He didn't get the ball because he wasn't open or in the right spot. They got the development curve right with him.

 

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

I thought Shakir was the year before? 😂
 Like I said I could be off base,  but it seems to appear that both Shakir and Cook we’re under used for a year, “slow to integrate them into offensive playing time”, but hey, I’ve been wrong before, hard as that is to believe 😂

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

I definitely agree that Cook and Shakir should have been used much more last year. It's a fair complaint, @Don Otreply, especially when we see other teams like the Chiefs rely (and get real production) from rookies. I was even a little surprised myself when I thought about it and saw those 4 names and their production this year.