The Knox injury unfortunately has changed this offense for the better

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Alpo Chino said:

Yeah. But you have to admit, they looked to have a lot more juice today. I feel better about tonight than the past 3 games.. regarding the offense.

It’s not even close. Our offense was way better this week than last week. Way more yards per play, way more first downs, way better conversion rate etc etc etc.

 

McD always preaches complementary football. Complementary football means getting up 2 scores so your banged up defense has some breathing room. Offense did that today. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

Just now, Brandon said:

Kincaid is certainly playing well,  but I tend to think that a large part of it has also been Khalil Shakir.  This is a team that has lost three good WRs over the last couple of years and made minimal effort to replace them.  Now that Shakir appears to be stepping up,  providing Josh with a competent, reliable 3rd option at WR,  it's no surprise that the offense looks better. 

Agree about Shakir.  He doesn’t get on the field as the slot WR nearly as much if Knox is playing.  Yes Knox can run guys over WHEN he catches the ball, but his hands are horrible and he’s nowhere near the receiving threat that Shakir is.

[billsbackto81]

39 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It sucks that Knox is injured. I like him as a player.

 

But it’s clear that without Knox, we are no longer forcing 12 personnel, which has clearly been holding this offense back. 
 

Unfortuantelt, we may see the 12 return when Knox gets healthy because Dorsey is going to have to include him and Kincaid. But the biggest difference tonight was 11 personnel. Dorsey is still Dorsey. this team is just better at 11 as currently constructed.

What makes you think they wouldn't have put 12 personnel on the back burner even if Knox was healthy? "12" has its place but it's not allowing the offense and Josh to play loose. I think Dorsey is starting to realize that, at least I hope.

[BillsShredder83]

5 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Kincaid is certainly playing well,  but I tend to think that a large part of it has also been Khalil Shakir.  This is a team that has lost three good WRs over the last couple of years and made minimal effort to replace them.  Now that Shakir appears to be stepping up,  providing Josh with a competent, reliable 3rd option at WR,  it's no surprise that the offense looks better. 

Weird how players have to be on the field to produce (and targeted). good thing he inexplicably rode pine the last 1.5years to only do the exact thing weve all seen. its infuriating to be the only team handicapping themselves this way. its like the NFLs Dabbo Sweeney 'we dont need transfers, our system is too complex theyd never get in 2 or 3 years'

[transplantbillsfan]

50 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It sucks that Knox is injured. I like him as a player.

 

But it’s clear that without Knox, we are no longer forcing 12 personnel, which has clearly been holding this offense back. 
 

Unfortuantelt, we may see the 12 return when Knox gets healthy because Dorsey is going to have to include him and Kincaid. But the biggest difference tonight was 11 personnel. Dorsey is still Dorsey. this team is just better at 11 as currently constructed.

 

It's weird that something that was a positive revelation tonight you've turned into a negative.

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

What makes you think they wouldn't have put 12 personnel on the back burner even if Knox was healthy? "12" has its place but it's not allowing the offense and Josh to play loose. I think Dorsey is starting to realize that, at least I hope.

Because it took Knox being put on IR to see it?

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It's weird that something that was a positive revelation tonight you've turned into a negative.

It’s not a negative at all (except for the Knox injury part).

 

I just think the offense is better in 11 and I think tonight showed that.

24 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Kincaid is certainly playing well,  but I tend to think that a large part of it has also been Khalil Shakir.  This is a team that has lost three good WRs over the last couple of years and made minimal effort to replace them.  Now that Shakir appears to be stepping up,  providing Josh with a competent, reliable 3rd option at WR,  it's no surprise that the offense looks better. 

Shakir basically gobbled up all of Knox’s snaps tonight. That’s kind of the point.

[LABILLBACKER]

37 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I agree. It is not because Knox was bad, it is just because we look better with 1 TE and 3WR, than we do with 2TE and 2 WR. This was the Offense we all know and love.  

Totally agree. Absolutely love seeing the return of "up tempo" 11 personnel with Kincaid.  Allowing Josh early confidence and even the return of his running. And spreading the wealth among his wrs. 

 

No more low positive.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

It sucks that Knox is injured. I like him as a player.

 

But it’s clear that without Knox, we are no longer forcing 12 personnel, which has clearly been holding this offense back. 
 

Unfortuantelt, we may see the 12 return when Knox gets healthy because Dorsey is going to have to include him and Kincaid. But the biggest difference tonight was 11 personnel. Dorsey is still Dorsey. this team is just better at 11 as currently constructed.

Yeah, it’s what a lot of us wanted to see but you have to wonder what happens when Knox comes back.

 

You just can’t take Shakir out of the mix, it opened so much more for the offense and even Davis.  But Dorsey is allergic to doing things that make sense at times, so who knows what he does.  

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

We didn’t see the Bills put up 10 points through 55 minutes tonight. That’s an improvement.

 

By default it's an improvement, but 0 points through the final 25 minutes is also really bad. And closing out two good looking drives to start the game with just 3 points combined, directly because of poor play calling, is also very bad.

 

I'm glad one of Dorsey's bad instincts has been unintentionally snuffed out, but his other bad instincts are still there and repeatedly costing us points. We scored 1 less point than we did against the Pats. That's not really an improvement. Slow start or slow finish doesn't matter, it leads to the same result. He needs to find some consistency or he needs to be shown the door.

[SCBills]

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

By default it's an improvement, but 0 points through the final 25 minutes is also really bad. And closing out two good looking drives to start the game with just 3 points combined, directly because of poor play calling, is also very bad.

 

I'm glad one of Dorsey's bad instincts has been unintentionally snuffed out, but his other bad instincts are still there and repeatedly costing us points. We scored 1 less point than we did against the Pats. That's not really an improvement. Slow start or slow finish doesn't matter, it leads to the same result. He needs to find some consistency or he needs to be shown the door.

Oh no doubt Dorsey is still Dorsey.

 

I will take fast starts over desperate finishes all day everyday.

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Kincaid is certainly playing well,  but I tend to think that a large part of it has also been Khalil Shakir.  This is a team that has lost three good WRs over the last couple of years and made minimal effort to replace them.  Now that Shakir appears to be stepping up,  providing Josh with a competent, reliable 3rd option at WR,  it's no surprise that the offense looks better. 

Not to be that guy but they technically have attempted to replace vet WR’s that left the team from 2021 to 2022 (I assume you are referring to Beasley, Brown and Sanders). Gabe was also drafted in 2020 to develop behind Brown, Diggs and Beasley. 

 

In 2022 they drafted Shakir who is finally breaking out and they signed Crowder last season as a vet stop gap. In 2023 they signed Hardy, Sheffield and drafted Kincaid to be another pass catcher. 
 

I would have preferred they gotten a better stop gap slot WR replacement in 2022 than Crowder but once again the attempt was there to ease the losses at WR.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Certainly, but the counterpoint would be that if Josh can release it as fast as he was tonight, he’s gonna neutralize a lot of DL’s.

 

So on one hand I understand the instincts of the fanbase to want Josh to get the ball out fast, but on the other hand we saw tonight the downside of always living in that world - Nonstop quick short passes leads to long drives that carry no margin for error from Dorsey or the players. We have no YAC specialists so most of those passes are getting tackled within 4 yards of the catch point. Slow and methodical sounds good in theory, but in reality because of how our offense is constructed it means every drive is a lot of grind it out work and usually relies on Allen making at least one Superman play just to keep the drive going or score a TD. I guess it looks a little prettier on the field but the final result is still below par.

[NewEra]

Shakir in the slot and Kincaid TE1. >>>>>
Kincaid in the slot and Knox TE1

 

Shakir >>>>> knox in the passing game. It’s not even close. 

[mannc]

7 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Agree about Shakir.  He doesn’t get on the field as the slot WR nearly as much if Knox is playing.  Yes Knox can run guys over WHEN he catches the ball, but his hands are horrible and he’s nowhere near the receiving threat that Shakir is.

Knox also has a small catch radius for a tight end…he’s not a big, safety valve target like a lot of teams have at that position 

[dma0034]

The difference a win makes.

 

On Sunday the Bills score 25 and the Offense sucks. Fire Dorsey

 

They score 24 on Thursday and it's exactly what we've wanted. They killed it. Lol

 

Bills were very inconsistent. Had poor play calling inside the 5 yard like and McDermott played conservative. That said they do they to allow Allen to run and play up tempo.

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

By default it's an improvement, but 0 points through the final 25 minutes is also really bad. And closing out two good looking drives to start the game with just 3 points combined, directly because of poor play calling, is also very bad.

 

I'm glad one of Dorsey's bad instincts has been unintentionally snuffed out, but his other bad instincts are still there and repeatedly costing us points. We scored 1 less point than we did against the Pats. That's not really an improvement. Slow start or slow finish doesn't matter, it leads to the same result. He needs to find some consistency or he needs to be shown the door.

Not scoring the final few drives sucks for sure but McD played it according to the context of the game.  Punting on 4th and 2’s that we’ve seen him go for time after time in recent years…..we were up 2 scores and our defense was stopping their offense.  Other than Josh gifting them a TD on that int, their offense couldn’t do much. I think we would’ve gone for it and likely succeeded if we went for them and also scored more points.  Our offense looked very good and we should all be very happy with their performance tonight. 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by NewEra

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

So on one hand I understand the instincts of the fanbase to want Josh to get the ball out fast, but on the other hand we saw tonight the downside of always living in that world - Nonstop quick short passes leads to long drives that carry no margin for error from Dorsey or the players. We have no YAC specialists so most of those passes are getting tackled within 4 yards of the catch point. Slow and methodical sounds good in theory, but in reality because of how our offense is constructed it means every drive is a lot of grind it out work and usually relies on Allen making at least one Superman play just to keep the drive going or score a TD. I guess it looks a little prettier on the field but the final result is still below par.

we have guys that if schemed up can get yac. Have you not seen harty with the ball in his hands? Did we just burn the McKenzie section of the playbook?

[strive_for_five_guy]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Not scoring the final few drives sucks for sure but McD played OT according to the context of the game.  Punting on 4th and 2’s that we’ve seen him go for time after time in recent years…..we were up 2 scores and our defense was stopping their offense.  Other than Josh gifting them a TD on that int, their offense couldn’t do much. I think we would’ve gone for it and likely succeeded if we went for them and also scored more points.  Our offense looked very good and we should all be very happy with their performance tonight. 

 

Yes.  The team put up 24 by early 3rd quarter.  Then McD/Dorsey turned it into a field position game.  The Bills ultimately got lucky to hold on, given the defense couldn’t get off the field in the 4th quarter and then the offense wasn’t able to get the two first downs when needed.

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

So on one hand I understand the instincts of the fanbase to want Josh to get the ball out fast, but on the other hand we saw tonight the downside of always living in that world - Nonstop quick short passes leads to long drives that carry no margin for error from Dorsey or the players. We have no YAC specialists so most of those passes are getting tackled within 4 yards of the catch point. Slow and methodical sounds good in theory, but in reality because of how our offense is constructed it means every drive is a lot of grind it out work and usually relies on Allen making at least one Superman play just to keep the drive going or score a TD. I guess it looks a little prettier on the field but the final result is still below par.

Did you think the offense we ran last week had a high margin for error? We had 10 points for 55 minutes.

 

I of all people completely understand that Dorsey’s plan in the red zone is “run a bad play, then Josh figure something out.” Which is bad. But they ain’t firing Dorsey now, so we may as well rely on Superman and win some games.

7 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

The difference a win makes.

 

On Sunday the Bills score 25 and the Offense sucks. Fire Dorsey

 

They score 24 on Thursday and it's exactly what we've wanted. They killed it. Lol

 

Bills were very inconsistent. Had poor play calling inside the 5 yard like and McDermott played conservative. That said they do they to allow Allen to run and play up tempo.

More like the difference ignoring every single stat makes. 
 

Bills were better on third down, had more first downs, had almost 100 more yards, and had 1 less point because we took our foot off the gas up two scores.

 

”It was one point less than last week” just misses the entire forest for the trees