Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Also that play is how Allen always handles free rushers. He never hits a hot route in those situations, especially one that is short of the sticks. People forgot how he plays QB I guess? He usually evades the free rusher and then runs for a big gain or tries to complete a pass in a scramble drill. In this case he hit Diggs at the goal line but Diggs didn't make the tough catch.

 

These broken plays often become explosive gains or TDs which is why defenses historically have not blitzed him much, they've learned that he burns them more times than not. Here the blitzer did a good job taking away his escape route angle to the right, but Allen rolling out of the pocket even to the left is a really dangerous situation for a defense to put themselves into. They're lucky Diggs didn't corral that one in, like he has a dozen times before.

 

I don't know, a lot of analysis I'm seeing today is people evaluating Allen as a traditional QB in a traditional offense and that just isn't how it's ever going to be. Instead of complaining about it or trying to take away what makes him special, we should be hoping the team leans into it and surrounds him with weapons that fit his skill set.

 

Allen is simply not interested in the hot read or checkdown...

 

You are spot on in your post

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

There is no doubt Josh deserves blame. Will watch the video to see if I agree with "a lot" but definitely some. The execution mistakes on offense were brutal and Josh was responsible for some 

Most of it is on Josh.  Even my 14 year old grandson was screaming at the TV saying "he's open " on most of the offensive plays, Josh doesn't see the open WR's, TE' and RB's.

 

He is what he is

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

30 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Allen is simply not interested in the hot read or checkdown...

 

You are spot on in your post

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1716851718556725456?s=46
 

Orlovsky points this out vividly. 

[HappyDays]

19 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I just want him to be better prepared before the ball is snapped.  That’s all I’m asking.  I prepare very hard for my job even though I am pretty good on the fly.  

 

I suspect if the coaching staff had an issue with his blitz handling they would have addressed it by now. He has never once been a "hot route" kind of QB. He can lean on his elite physical abilities to create explosive plays in those situations and his escaping the blitz takes a coverage defender completely out of the play which creates running lanes and advantages downfield.

 

To use the same example play, in my mind (and I believe the coaches' minds) it is more likely that we will score a TD with him rolling out than it is if he hits Shakir for a 3 yard gain on that play. 3rd and 2 in a goalline situation is not really a favorable look for our offense. Allen rolling out of the pocket towards Diggs in single man coverage at the front corner of the endzone on 2nd down is a very favorable look. If we want to celebrate the successes that those plays often bring, we have to live with the failures too.

[SWATeam]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Why not? I am pretty sure that Josh is clearly superior to Jalen Hurts.

Fair enough, they are most likely not going to be able to pay both Brown and Smith though to go along with Hurts.  You can keep cycling through rookie contracts though.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He's not "my guy." I'm just throwing out options for the "bad Josh" crowd, man.

 

 

you've thrown out the same options in 2 threads...one of the regarding trading Allen to Chicago....to get Caleb Williams FCS

[Since1981]

11 hours ago, Dopey said:

Dan Orlovski showed at least three clips where the hot read was open on a blitz and Josh ignored them. There’s a lot of people that are not going to like this thread.  Hard for many to accept it. He needs to play better.

Who’s chatting w 17 after series? what’s going down? Who has tablet to bench? Where is O sounding board QB2, WR1? I get that he misses a read, but I see NOBODY discussing O between series. Kelly/Reed/Reich doing sideline chats

 

It’s like an army lieutenant not collaborating with his general, scouts, engineers, on how to take the next bridge. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

you've thrown out the same options in 2 threads...one of the regarding trading Allen to Chicago....to get Caleb Williams FCS

No kidding.

 

Well thank GOD you're here to point that out 

[Since1981]

And if Josh won’t check to the hot or just has bad natural visual ability? OC should game plan around this limitation. Not game plan him straight into his natural limitation!

 

my god, Baltimore built their entire offense around Lamar’s +/-

Edited October 24, 2023 by Since1981

[balln]

he just doesn’t want to take the 5 yard check down. BUT he has to 

[Bob Jones]

58 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Who’s chatting w 17 after series? what’s going down? Who has tablet to bench? Where is O sounding board QB2, WR1? I get that he misses a read, but I see NOBODY discussing O between series. Kelly/Reed/Reich doing sideline chats

 

It’s like an army lieutenant not collaborating with his general, scouts, engineers, on how to take the next bridge. 

Have thought this same thing since last year. I also wonder what they are doing in practice all week?

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

I am going to try and paraphrase as best possible. It was along the lines of “Of course I watch film. But I try not to get too wrapped up in it because teams tend to play us a lot differently than what we see on film. I prefer to trust my eyes, read, react. I like to play fast and loose.”

 

I think it might have been @Beck Water who has the quote. But we disagree on interpretation. 

 

Josh was on the Pat McAfee show.  Pat asked him "big film watcher?"

Josh said "yeah"

Then he said "I try not to overwatch film" and explained that teams tend to play the Bills differently than what they put on film, so he finds it better to react to what he sees during the game.

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/249008-nattering-nabobs-of-negativism/page/8/#comment-8520432

 

I think I had a post where I actually transcribed what Josh said but it is a bear for me to find stuff by searching here.

 

Frankly, whatever Josh is doing in the way of prep, I think he needs a "reality check" and it needs to change.  @HoofHearted did a good job breaking down the first half passing plays last week and showing that there were open guys and guys who should have been the first read, that Josh wasn't taking.  In his OBD segment last Friday, Greg Cosell similarly pointed out a couple of plays where he thought the read should have been different and there was a play for the taking (same observations that Hoof had made here BTW)

 

I don't always agree with Joe Marino when I've listened to him, but I see the same thing again vs Pats - Josh had options he's not taking, some of which are, in fact, the "correct" option in a given situation (vs a Blitz, for  example). 

 

In the 2021 season WC game against the Patriots, Bill Belicheck wagered that Josh would be unable to make the correct decision time after time, that he would get impatient and try to force balls in vs. taking the short, safe throw.  Josh responded with a "Game of Games" where he did everything right, and as a result, the Bills scored a TD on every offensive drive.

 

That Josh isn't playing QB for the Bills right now.  And for the Bills to have a chance, someone needs to hunt that guy down and find him and bring him back.  I don't know if it's a difference in QB coaching or who is talking to Josh between series or game prep or what.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Most of it is on Josh.  Even my 14 year old grandson was screaming at the TV saying "he's open " on most of the offensive plays, Josh doesn't see the open WR's, TE' and RB's.

 

He is what he is

 

Except that Josh is NOT "what he is".  He HAS been able to be patient, take what the defense gives him, see the open WR and TE and RB.  And not too long ago.

 

So what has changed?

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Except that Josh is NOT "what he is".  He HAS been able to be patient, take what the defense gives him, see the open WR and TE and RB.  And not too long ago.

 

So what has changed?

I just re-watched the second half Bills versus NE drives and he was doing exactly that in every drive accept one where he moved the Bills down fast for the TD.

 

A week earlier against the Giants the Bills had TD drives of 17 & 13 plays and all Allen did was be patient.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Most of it is on Josh.  Even my 14 year old grandson was screaming at the TV saying "he's open " on most of the offensive plays, Josh doesn't see the open WR's, TE' and RB's.

 

He is what he is

 

It's absurd to say Allen doesn't see the open receivers.  His stats would indicate otherwise or are you saying that all those completions over the last three and a half seasons have been to tightly covered players while he ignores the open ones?

 

Since 2020 Allen has been a top 3 QB in production, including this season.  If pointing this obvious stat out makes me a member of the Josh Allen cult please pass me the cool aid.

 

 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Could it actually be that the posters who have been ridiculed relentlessly for daring to suggest that Josh has “gone Hollywood” might be on to something?  Hmmmm …..

[Aimee75]

12 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Except that Josh is NOT "what he is".  He HAS been able to be patient, take what the defense gives him, see the open WR and TE and RB.  And not too long ago.

 

So what has changed?

I, one of Josh's defenders, also think he has room for improvement and can work on a lot of things.

 

I think what's so crazy to me is how he is the scapegoat here. Pages upon pages of things he needs to do(and yeah, I don't disagree with some of them) and people acting like this team doesn't have a ton of issues right now. Josh can indeed improve, watch more film etc but outside of The Jets game, I cannot even put any of the losses on him. This team feels like a hot mess right now, from the coaches and ailing and old defense, and lack of productivity in the off season. We have a WR2 that has no business being a WR2(and I hate picking on Gabe. I do.) and Dawson Dropz(another player I love as a person, but oof) and suspect OL(yet again). There are just so many issues with this team right now, I do not feel good about going forward, especially when we meet up with The Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles etc etc I can't imagine deovoting this much time and endless threads on the QB whom usually wills us to wins, or puts us in a spot to win a game. I don't even want to think of what this team looks like without him and Diggs.

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's absurd to say Allen doesn't see the open receivers.  His stats would indicate otherwise or are you saying that all those completions over the last three and a half seasons have been to tightly covered players while he ignores the open ones?

 

Since 2020 Allen has been a top 3 QB in production, including this season.  If pointing this obvious stat out makes me a member of the Josh Allen cult please pass me the cool aid.

 

 

 

I am there with you, in this strange parallel universe.

[CincyBillsFan]

15 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Could it actually be that the posters who have been ridiculed relentlessly for daring to suggest that Josh has “gone Hollywood” might be on to something?  Hmmmm …..

No unless you have an alternative set of Allen's stats then I've seen.

 

BTW I re-watched all the Bills offensive drives from the 2nd half and Allen was outstanding even in the face of serious pressure.  Watch the TD throws to Diggs & Cook for a sample.

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

13 hours ago, Westside said:

You or anyone else in here know how much”film” he watches! Let’s make up stuff to make Allen sound even worse! This fan base doesn’t deserve to win. I’m more disappointed in how the fans turn on players and coaches so fast. Truly remarkable how hateful some people are!

Is this Hailey Steinfelds burner account?

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's absurd to say Allen doesn't see the open receivers.  His stats would indicate otherwise or are you saying that all those completions over the last three and a half seasons have been to tightly covered players while he ignores the open ones?

 

Since 2020 Allen has been a top 3 QB in production, including this season.  If pointing this obvious stat out makes me a member of the Josh Allen cult please pass me the cool aid.

 

 

 

I’ve actually been banging this drum for a few years. 
 

Josh is really good. Maybe the best overall physiologically gifted guy to play the position. His physiology bails him out of a lot of situations and decisions he puts himself in.

 

He can complete almost any pass on the field. But it doesn’t mean he should try to. Just because he can, doesn’t mean he should. 
 

When Josh misses he tends to miss behind.  His fast ball and legs have allowed him to get away with being late to throw for a number of years. 
 

He has made adjustments in other areas of his game. I keep pointing it out because I think it can be fixed. But the bill is starting to come do. 
 

 

1 hour ago, balln said:

he just doesn’t want to take the 5 yard check down. BUT he has to 

I would like to add on here. Josh has a tendency to throw to his check downs as a last resort as they’re flat footed. He needs to do better at getting his check downs the ball a little sooner, before the defense can react.