Joe Marino says all-22 Review shows Josh deserves a lot of blame for Pats Loss

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The front office isn't doing Josh any favors either.  Kincaid is a great add, but the other receivers brought in aren't an upgrade.  Watching MNF last night I'm left wondering and somewhat depressed how the Vikings (and some other teams) come up with so many great receivers, adding this kid Jordan Addison through the draft this year which all make slightly above average Kirk Cousins look the part of a franchise QB.  I'm left to imagine just how good the Bills offense would look with a couple of these receivers. 

Four WRs (including Addison and Flowers) came off the board shortly before the Bills’ pick.  Not Beane’s fault.  He did the right thing by getting Kincaid.

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

Of course not.  

Wrong

Have you ever listened to the man? Dudes hatred is an absolute joke 

Edited October 24, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[mannc]

Just now, 78thealltimegreat said:

Have you ever listened to the man? Dudes hatred is an absolute joke 

You are completely clueless.  Marino is a huge Josh Allen fan.

[2003Contenders]

If you told me ahead of time that Josh would complete 65% of his passes against the Pats, toss 2 TD passes and rush for another, convert on a 2-point conversion, and have only one turnover, I would have expected that the Bills would have beaten the Patriots going away. The play of the admittedly depleted defense -- coupled with (and give them credit where it is due) Mac Jones and the Patriots offense playing out of their minds -- is what cost the Bills the game.

 

That said...

 

There are certainly things that Josh can do better. Three games in a row now opposing defenses have done a good job of making him uncomfortable, which has resulted in some timing/poor decision issues. Dorsey needs to design and call more plays that help to get the ball out of his hand quickly. And Josh needs to deliver on those plays rather than look for the kill shot every time. Like the old saying goes, "You will never go broke if you make a profit every time". 

 

The bad news is that the defense is likely going to be a season-long problem as (barring a significant trade) I don't see reinforcements on their way. So it is going to be important for Josh and the offense to score. Hopefully, the performance by the offense in the 2nd half against the Pats will help to ignite them. If nothing else, maybe he has some faith in Kincaid now as another reliable, chain-moving weapon.

[Einstein]

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody tells their Quarterback to read the defense less so that the coaches can do more of it. Nobody. That is a nonsense narrative.

 

You clearly didn’t read what I wrote. In the very first sentence of my reply I wrote that it may have happened “incidentally”. Meaning, not on purpose. I went on to hypothesize how it could have happened, not due to an outright motive to tell him to read defenses less, but as a consequence of the mechanism of a string of decisions that naturally led to it.

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Sunday, after they scored the go-ahead TD.

 

Fire is not the issue.  It’s putting in the work to be great.

 

Starting to see this across professional sports with later Millennials and Zoomers.  Or maybe that's me being an elitist Gen X'er.   

[78thealltimegreat]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

You are completely clueless.  Marino is a huge Josh Allen fan.

He freaking hates him 

[BananaB]

10 minutes ago, mannc said:

Four WRs (including Addison and Flowers) came off the board shortly before the Bills’ pick.  Not Beane’s fault.  He did the right thing by getting Kincaid.

He did give Harty 10 million after about 40 career catches. He thought Sherfield was a player despite bouncing around the league for 4 years. Before that he put all his faith in Davis and McKenzie. Then doubled down on Davis giving us the excuses about his injury. Beane deserves plenty of blame

Edited October 24, 2023 by BananaB

[SWATeam]

5 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s easier to create but how often does that hypothetical team play in the Super Bowl? Maybe you can count the eagles nick foles Super Bowl as that although that was kind of forced due to an injury they were still paying another qb. 
 

Great pass blocking has felt like the constant for me in very successful teams.  Cincy is up and down based on how those guys are playing up front as are we.  Kc is always near the leagues best in pass blocking,  Detroit has been near the leagues best since they went on their tear midseason last year, philly is near the leagues best, baltimores offensive line is playing well this season.  
 

not to say josh is blameless by any means  but qbs start to spiral/lose confidence when they are frequently under pressure and they start second guessing everything which causes the mistakes to pile up.  
 

I think we made a solid attempt at building our roster by the appropriate model  it just hasn’t worked out so far…a sure thing wr, sure handed slot ‘receiver’ that can move the chains,  solid investments in the offensive line, qb that can elevate a few role players, defense that has a few game changers that can get the big stops in the playoffs. things have been going sideways the last few weeks though. 
 

morse looks washed which is causing immense pressure on the interior.

defense lost literally all its gamechanging players.  Qb is overwhelmed and losing confidence.  There’s a lot of things that are causing bad play to snowball right now and nobody trusts the other units to bail them out

 

We certainly have had bad injury luck.  I think we would be fielding an eilte D with a healthy Tre, Milano, Jones, Von...

 

How would the Chiefs build be looking right now if they were missing Chris Jones, Nick Bolton, McDuffie, and Karlaftis all for the year?

 

While not elite I do think our Oline is much improved.  Josh is often his own worse enemy in that regard with his time to throw- it's always among the longest in the league.

 

[Mango]

We have a 250 lbs + QB, who’s made a name for himself by running headfirst and full speed into defenders. Who is now managing his third injury to his throwing arm in 3 years. 

The staff, who can also be upgraded, is also in a lose-lose situation. They run him into the ground like Cam and we’re all clamoring they ruined him. They try and protect him from ruining himself and they’ve neutered him.

 

I am of the opinion that when you have your guy as the leader of a multi billion dollar organization you have to protect that asset.  Doing anything else is wildly irresponsible to both the man and the franchise. At some point being unable to hone in on being a better passer/decision falls on the player. 
 

There’s certainly some grey area here but in real life you can’t go give a guy $250M and then to YOLO.

 

A new coordinator and or coach might help Allen. But Allen also has to help Allen. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

most of the people suggesting he be traded are just having a childish contrarian tantrum because it was objectively observed he hasn’t been playing well lately…. And they can’t bring themselves to accept it. 

Not true.  If I believed as you do that Allen has played poorly the last few games and then proceeded to call out problems like:  he can't read defenses; he's not accurate; he doesn't put the work in; he refuses to take the easy first downs; etc.; etc.; etc, then the obvious action would be to consider unloading Allen while his value is still sky high. 

 

The simple fact is that cumulatively the things that you and others are throwing out are not fixable.  Judas Priest if you believe Allen has all these flaws in his game do you really think he can improve them at this point in his career? So logically trading Allen would have to be at the top of your list.

 

Fortunately for the Bills I don't believe the stuff you guys are throwing out there are MAJOR problems.  Sure Allen has to sharpen his game in places.  You'll get no argument from me here.  And yes Allen needs to be more consistent game to game. But when you look at the whole situation with the Bills those are relatively minor problems that can be corrected.

 

The fact remains that with a clearly inferior O line; a group of skill players who are mediocre at best while at the same time the Bills are trying to change the basic scheme of their offense, Allen has managed to remain a top 5 QB.  And if you don't trust me check out the stats.

 

In the end we lost to NE because our banged up defense allowed Mac Jones and the anemic Patriot offense to march 75 yards in the last 2 minutes to score the winning TD.

 

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

You are completely clueless.  Marino is a huge Josh Allen fan.

Yeah, I've never heard him dog Josh.

 

Ever.

 

[MJS]

I guess that needs to be the next evolution of Josh Allen. He needs to be better before the snap. He needs to recognize pressure, audible out of plays, identify blitzers, and make sure the line is protecting right.

 

If he does that, 90% of the problems go away. He just isn't where he needs to be with pre-snap adjustments and defensive coordinators are feasting on that now.

 

Even a lot of the post-snap issues mentioned come down to pre-snap identification, like "I'll throw to my hot route if that player blitzes." That might appear to be a post-snap decision, but he needs to mentally prepare for that pre-snap.

[CincyBillsFan]

Sal makes a good point here:

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

Four WRs (including Addison and Flowers) came off the board shortly before the Bills’ pick.  Not Beane’s fault.  He did the right thing by getting Kincaid.

No disagreement on Kincaid,  And I liked the Torrence pick in the 2nd.  But the WR2 is a weak spot and desperately needs an upgrade.  Add in Diggs is over 30 and on the back 9 of his career and it becomes critical.  Marvin Harrison Jr would look great in a Bills uniform but I dream.

[MJS]

22 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Josh Allen simply cannot have a “good” game to Joe you should listen to some of his previous analysis even after wins. 

Seems you are ignorant. Marino calls them like he sees them. But he is a huge Bills fan and huge supporter of Josh Allen.

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He did give Harty 10 million after about 40 career catches. He thought Sherfield was a player despite bouncing around the league for 4 years. Before that he put all his faith in Davis and McKenzie. Then doubled down on Davis giving us the excuses about his injury. Beane deserves plenty of blame

I was only talking about last year’s draft

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Sal makes a good point here:

 

 

 

I mean, sure. That happened, it's undebatable.

 

HOWEVER, only one of those teams lost to the Patriots. As bad as the Vikings have been, they've at least got a functional offense. And the Eagles? Well, they're no slouch.

 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Yeah, I've never heard him dog Josh.

 

Ever.

 

I swear, some people live in an alternate universe…

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

We certainly have had bad injury luck.  I think we would be fielding an eilte D with a healthy Tre, Milano, Jones, Von...

 

How would the Chiefs build be looking right now if they were missing Chris Jones, Nick Bolton, McDuffie, and Karlaftis all for the year?

 

While not elite I do think our Oline is much improved.  Josh is often his own worse enemy in that regard with his time to throw- it's always among the longest in the league.

 

It’s def much improved from a physical skill perspective but they are getting outschemed badly the last few weeks it seems

 

i think that time to throw comes with a huge asterisk…there’s def times he holds it too long for sure or misses a hot read but there’s also many times that instant pressure forces him to run around like a lunatic for 5 seconds.  If we had an average qb back there the time to throw numbers would be much worse and the sacks would be much higher