BuffaloBillyG Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) Came across the following tweet. Pulled the numbers out so they are front and center. Credit to "Rico" for doing the leg work. But I have seen a LOT of common themes parroted today and the numbers show that for the most part the opinions of some (including some opinions I've had) may not be fully true. First off...the new narrative that Josh is suddenly force feeding Diggs and only Diggs the ball to keep him happy. Through 6 games Diggs has only 1 more target than last year. My theory is that the perception that Allen is forcing Diggs the ball more has to do with the lack of targets for Stef at the end of the year. After 6 weeks 5-1 record. 4-2 Record #Diggs 22' Diggs 23' 65 targets 66 targets 49 recs 49 Rec 6tds 5tds Second...Gabe Davis hasn't improved. That's another false narrative IMO that the numbers seemingly back up. This time last year Dais had a 53% catch rate. Through the same amount of games his rate has jumped to 70%. Most of his catches have gone for 1st downs or TDs. He has been a HIGHLY efficient player so far this year. I have checked 3 sources this morning and have seen him "credited" with TWO official drops this year on one of them and ONE in the other two. If someone can provide another official source that is higher, please do. His fumble last night was just the third time in his career he's fumbled and it was an excellent play by the defense. Gabe Davis is NOT the problem. #Davis 22'. Davis 23' 26 targets 30 Targets 14 Rec 21 rec 4tds 4tds Third...Knox has to be a blocker all the time now. And while it's true he is asked to chip a fair amount...he still runs a pass pattern after most times. He's actually had 5 more targets this year. His problem has been he's not making the tough catches we are used to seeing him make. #Knox 22' Knox 23' 20 Targets 25 Targets 15 rec 14 Rec 1TD 1TD Fourth...slot receiver has been a bust. True, yet maybe a bit too early to lose hope. Notable with Kincaid missing last night he's only got 5 games in. I would have expected a few balls his way to raise these numbers, but the fact of the matter is while the TDa haven't been there (yet) and his opportunity hasn't been as high, he's actually been much more efficient than what we had in the slot last year. He's a rookie still figuring things out. I think the best is yet to come here. #Mckenzie 22' #Kincaid 23' 26 targets 19 Targets 17 Rec 17 Rec 3tds 0 TDs Edited October 16, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG 5 1 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Also, as one in the comments section notes, run game is FAR improved over last year, by the naked eye 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Came across the following tweet. Pulled the numbers out so they are front and center. Credit to "Rico" for doing the leg work. But I have seen a LOT of common themes parroted today and the numbers show that for the most part the opinions of some (including some opinions I've had) may not be fully true. First off...the new narrative that Josh is suddenly force feeding Diggs and only Diggs the ball to keep him happy. Through 6 games Diggs has only 1 more target than last year. My theory is that the perception that Allen is forcing Diggs the ball more has to do with the lack of targets for Stef at the end of the year. After 6 weeks 5-1 record. 4-2 Record #Diggs 22' Diggs 23' 65 targets 66 targets 49 recs 49 Rec 6tds 5tds Second...Gabe Davis hasn't improved. That's another false narrative IMO that the numbers seemingly back up. This time last year Dais had a 53% catch rate. Through the same amount of games his rate has jumped to 70%. Most of his catches have gone for 1st downs or TDs. He has been a HIGHLY efficient player so far this year. I have checked 3 sources this morning and have seen him "credited" with TWO official drops this year on one of them and ONE in the other two. If someone can provide another official source that is higher, please do. His fumble last night was just the third time in his career he's fumbled and it was an excellent play by the defense. Gabe Davis is NOT the problem. #Davis 22'. Davis 23' 26 targets 30 Targets 14 Rec 21 rec 4tds 4tds Third...Knox has to be a blocker all the time now. And while it's true he is asked to chip a fair amount...he still runs a pass pattern after most times. He's actually had 5 more targets this year. His problem has been he's not making the tough catches we are used to seeing him make. #Knox 22' Knox 23' 20 Targets 25 Targets 15 rec 14 Rec 1TD 1TD Fourth...slot receiver has been a bust. True, yet maybe a bit too early to lose hope. Notable with Kincaid missing last night he's only got 5 games in. I would have expected a few balls his way to raise these numbers, but the fact of the matter is while the TDa haven't been there (yet) and his opportunity hasn't been as high, he's actually been much more efficient than what we had in the slot last year. He's a rookie still figuring things out. I think the best is yet to come here. #Mckenzie 22' #Kincaid 23' 26 targets 19 Targets 17 Rec 17 Rec 3tds 0 TDs Slot receiver seems to be multiple people so it's not really fair to compare McKenzie alone to Kincaid sionce McKenzie was pretty much in the slot every play last year...would be more accurate to compare McKenzie to Kincaid+Harty+Shakir. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Big Turk said: Slot receiver seems to be multiple people so it's not really fair to compare McKenzie alone to Kincaid sionce McKenzie was pretty much in the slot every play last year...would be more accurate to compare McKenzie to Kincaid+Harty+Shakir. Fair point to make, however this time last year there were other guys taking snaps in the slot than McKenzie as well. Crowder was in the mix as well. Kumerow had taken snaps there. So I think it sort of evens out, myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Slot receiver seems to be multiple people so it's not really fair to compare McKenzie alone to Kincaid sionce McKenzie was pretty much in the slot every play last year...would be more accurate to compare McKenzie to Kincaid+Harty+Shakir. And Diggs, who also carries some of that load. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: Also, as one in the comments section notes, run game is FAR improved over last year, by the naked eye LOL, that was worse to stick that last part in there. 😁 Well see what comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 My narrative is that our offense is vanilla, abandons the run when it shouldn’t, is predictable and lacks creativity. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yobogoya! Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Personally I don't see anything wrong with Diggs being the focal point of the passing game -- I mean, that's what he's here for. He's also our most reliable catcher and it's not particularly close comparing him to any of the other options. Especially if he's in an exploitable matchup. There are plenty of DB's he can take to school, and frequently does so when its 1-vs-1. But the offense clearly lacks creativity in scheming up plays for our depth players: We have no "gadget" plays. We have zero screen game. Our dual-threat TE's are outlet options only. We don't just need more consistently from our 2nd and 3rd options, we need plays designed to exploit their strengths. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Came across the following tweet. Pulled the numbers out so they are front and center. Credit to "Rico" for doing the leg work. But I have seen a LOT of common themes parroted today and the numbers show that for the most part the opinions of some (including some opinions I've had) may not be fully true. First off...the new narrative that Josh is suddenly force feeding Diggs and only Diggs the ball to keep him happy. Through 6 games Diggs has only 1 more target than last year. My theory is that the perception that Allen is forcing Diggs the ball more has to do with the lack of targets for Stef at the end of the year. After 6 weeks 5-1 record. 4-2 Record #Diggs 22' Diggs 23' 65 targets 66 targets 49 recs 49 Rec 6tds 5tds Second...Gabe Davis hasn't improved. That's another false narrative IMO that the numbers seemingly back up. This time last year Dais had a 53% catch rate. Through the same amount of games his rate has jumped to 70%. Most of his catches have gone for 1st downs or TDs. He has been a HIGHLY efficient player so far this year. I have checked 3 sources this morning and have seen him "credited" with TWO official drops this year on one of them and ONE in the other two. If someone can provide another official source that is higher, please do. His fumble last night was just the third time in his career he's fumbled and it was an excellent play by the defense. Gabe Davis is NOT the problem. #Davis 22'. Davis 23' 26 targets 30 Targets 14 Rec 21 rec 4tds 4tds Third...Knox has to be a blocker all the time now. And while it's true he is asked to chip a fair amount...he still runs a pass pattern after most times. He's actually had 5 more targets this year. His problem has been he's not making the tough catches we are used to seeing him make. #Knox 22' Knox 23' 20 Targets 25 Targets 15 rec 14 Rec 1TD 1TD Fourth...slot receiver has been a bust. True, yet maybe a bit too early to lose hope. Notable with Kincaid missing last night he's only got 5 games in. I would have expected a few balls his way to raise these numbers, but the fact of the matter is while the TDa haven't been there (yet) and his opportunity hasn't been as high, he's actually been much more efficient than what we had in the slot last year. He's a rookie still figuring things out. I think the best is yet to come here. #Mckenzie 22' #Kincaid 23' 26 targets 19 Targets 17 Rec 17 Rec 3tds 0 TDs Looks like you're saying people here aren't as smart as they think they are. Totally agree!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Slot receiver seems to be multiple people so it's not really fair to compare McKenzie alone to Kincaid sionce McKenzie was pretty much in the slot every play last year...would be more accurate to compare McKenzie to Kincaid+Harty+Shakir. So add like 3 catches and 1 TD. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, PBF81 said: LOL, that was worse to stick that last part in there. 😁 Well see what comes back. you disagree the run game is improved? it is the reason we won that game last night, the passing game was neutered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinatraSinger Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Are you saying that you don't think that Josh force fed Diggs last night. Josh had 30 attempts and 16 of them went to Diggs, you don't consider that force feeding, over 50% of the attempts to one individual. Only 3 to the supposed #2 WR. No attempts to RB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Slot receiver seems to be multiple people so it's not really fair to compare McKenzie alone to Kincaid sionce McKenzie was pretty much in the slot every play last year...would be more accurate to compare McKenzie to Kincaid+Harty+Shakir. McKittrick was a first down machine. I'd like to see the FD stats between McKittrick and the slot committee. That's what the Bills are really missing right now, the ability to move the chains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasaluki Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Just now, Freddie's Dead said: McKittrick was a first down machine. I'd like to see the FD stats between McKittrick and the slot committee. That's what the Bills are really missing right now, the ability to move the chains. That's what is revealing about the stats in the OP Davis Diggs Knox all with about the same production and the Bills are obviously running it better. The "missing" piece is the slot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: Also, as one in the comments section notes, run game is FAR improved over last year, by the naked eye So weird I really thought the offensive line turned the corner in a well rounded way but it appears to be mostly in run blocking. The jags were wise to this and absolutely loaded the box knowing their rushers would get home on a passing play anyway…probably could’ve stood to run the ball more against the giants but to really commit to the run I feel like you’ve gotta be confident you can pick up a 3rd and medium passing the football and that did not seem to be the case last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Bangarang said: My narrative is that our offense is vanilla, abandons the run when it shouldn’t, is predictable and lacks creativity. And those are also fair points. Especially when it comes to abandon the run. Just look at the Giants last night. Got shut down all night...but stuck with it and it paid off. 4 minutes ago, SinatraSinger said: Are you saying that you don't think that Josh force fed Diggs last night. Josh had 30 attempts and 16 of them went to Diggs, you don't consider that force feeding, over 50% of the attempts to one individual. Only 3 to the supposed #2 WR. No attempts to RB's. Last night? Sure as a one off sample you could say that. But if you include last night's 16 attempts it would actually show that on the season over all 6 games, Diggs has actually been under targeted more times than not compared to last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) The issue really isnt in the QTY it is in the location. I cannot wait to see the Allen Passing Chart from yesterday. as expected. and in trend with this offense. ALOT Of short and LOS throws Edited October 16, 2023 by MAJBobby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Came across the following tweet. Pulled the numbers out so they are front and center. Credit to "Rico" for doing the leg work. But I have seen a LOT of common themes parroted today and the numbers show that for the most part the opinions of some (including some opinions I've had) may not be fully true. First off...the new narrative that Josh is suddenly force feeding Diggs and only Diggs the ball to keep him happy. Through 6 games Diggs has only 1 more target than last year. My theory is that the perception that Allen is forcing Diggs the ball more has to do with the lack of targets for Stef at the end of the year. After 6 weeks 5-1 record. 4-2 Record #Diggs 22' Diggs 23' 65 targets 66 targets 49 recs 49 Rec 6tds 5tds Second...Gabe Davis hasn't improved. That's another false narrative IMO that the numbers seemingly back up. This time last year Dais had a 53% catch rate. Through the same amount of games his rate has jumped to 70%. Most of his catches have gone for 1st downs or TDs. He has been a HIGHLY efficient player so far this year. I have checked 3 sources this morning and have seen him "credited" with TWO official drops this year on one of them and ONE in the other two. If someone can provide another official source that is higher, please do. His fumble last night was just the third time in his career he's fumbled and it was an excellent play by the defense. Gabe Davis is NOT the problem. #Davis 22'. Davis 23' 26 targets 30 Targets 14 Rec 21 rec 4tds 4tds Third...Knox has to be a blocker all the time now. And while it's true he is asked to chip a fair amount...he still runs a pass pattern after most times. He's actually had 5 more targets this year. His problem has been he's not making the tough catches we are used to seeing him make. #Knox 22' Knox 23' 20 Targets 25 Targets 15 rec 14 Rec 1TD 1TD Fourth...slot receiver has been a bust. True, yet maybe a bit too early to lose hope. Notable with Kincaid missing last night he's only got 5 games in. I would have expected a few balls his way to raise these numbers, but the fact of the matter is while the TDa haven't been there (yet) and his opportunity hasn't been as high, he's actually been much more efficient than what we had in the slot last year. He's a rookie still figuring things out. I think the best is yet to come here. #Mckenzie 22' #Kincaid 23' 26 targets 19 Targets 17 Rec 17 Rec 3tds 0 TDs Thanks for posting this. It shows me that my theories on what's going on with the offense are misplaced. What I saw last night is that Josh just targeted Diggs in the first half and the offense stalled, but when he started spreading the ball around in the second half things improved. I still think that's what happened last night, but it's not happened all year. Edited October 16, 2023 by oldmanfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocoboy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 So let's get to the heart of the matter... The stat that's missing is...Josh ground game. If you discard that from your playbook, the rest must come up and fill in the gaps. And everything is pretty much the same, nothing has truly picked up that lack of dynamism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: McKittrick was a first down machine. I'd like to see the FD stats between McKittrick and the slot committee. That's what the Bills are really missing right now, the ability to move the chains. On the whole season last year McKenzie had 42 catches. 27 of those were for 1st downs. Not sure that qualifies as a first down machine. Edited October 16, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.