Israel and the Slaughter in Gaza

[LeviF]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:52 AM, Justice said:

I love how they’re calling it an unprovoked attack.

 

Just like a certain demographic in the US, Israel is allowed (with significant help from mainstream media...wonder why) to project the idea that history begins with the reactions to their provocations.

[Justice]

7 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Wow! So 24 hours later and no responses from the pro-Zionism crowd?? Not even a perfunctory eyeroll or mock laugh emoji reaction? THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING. Moving on…

 

Let me address the “intent” component of Israel’s genocide. Political analysts fixate on the overly retributive self-defense explanation, as well as an explanation imbued with religious directives. Both are obviously true to some extent, but in my opinion Jared Diamond-esque geopolitical explanations are far more instructive. Israel is a modern-day case study in settler colonialism, so this is more about geography and the age-old motivations of land grabs and natural resource seizures for the purposes of wealth and power aggregation. In three ways this appears to be true:

 

1. Gaza: It’s at a strategically situated position on the Mediterranean, with potential for a far greater seaport, prime coastal real estate development, and untapped offshore natural gas fields. Ethnic cleansing removes the indigenous people in the way; genocide thins the herd and expedites the cleansing.

 

2. West Bank: Its western geographical limit is as few as 12 miles away from the Mediterranean Sea coast at Tel Aviv. The western frontier of the West Bank also features a bunch of hills perched above the lowland bottleneck of Israel’s middle section. A military strategist might argue that this is a natural military “choke point,” and that losing sudden control of it would easily cut off Israel’s two halves from each other. This is likely a big reason why Israel is accelerating its illegal settlement encroachment into this particular area of the West Bank, while the slaughtering continues unabated in Gaza.

 

3. Negev Desert: It’s an extensive region of land that still remains significantly underutilized, in terms of desert agriculture methods and natural resource extraction. Israel understands that a two-state solution with a non-contiguous Palestine (or a non-contiguous Israel) can’t relieve certain levels of tension (partly due to national transportation logistics), and that contiguity may likely require relinquishing this connecting region between Gaza and the West Bank (a region, by the way, that contains Israel’s critical nuclear weapons facility near Dimona). It’s in Israel’s interest, therefore, to remove Gaza from the entire equation of negotiation.

 

Summary: I think geopolitical explanations are more fundamental. Retributive self-defense and religion are what settler colonialists tell others and each other to justify their horrible behavior.

 

Thoughts?? Am I right? Wrong? Can I at least get an eyeroll acknowledgment, pretty please?! Thank you.

My favorite is the vomit emoji. The walking dead around here love using that one along with the eyeroll emoji lol 

[The Frankish Reich]

7 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Wow! So 24 hours later and no responses from the pro-Zionism crowd?? Not even a perfunctory eyeroll or mock laugh emoji reaction? THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING. Moving on…

 

Let me address the “intent” component of Israel’s genocide. Political analysts fixate on the overly retributive self-defense explanation, as well as an explanation imbued with religious directives. Both are obviously true to some extent, but in my opinion Jared Diamond-esque geopolitical explanations are far more instructive. Israel is a modern-day case study in settler colonialism, so this is more about geography and the age-old motivations of land grabs and natural resource seizures for the purposes of wealth and power aggregation. In three ways this appears to be true:

 

1. Gaza: It’s at a strategically situated position on the Mediterranean, with potential for a far greater seaport, prime coastal real estate development, and untapped offshore natural gas fields. Ethnic cleansing removes the indigenous people in the way; genocide thins the herd and expedites the cleansing.

 

2. West Bank: Its western geographical limit is as few as 12 miles away from the Mediterranean Sea coast at Tel Aviv. The western frontier of the West Bank also features a bunch of hills perched above the lowland bottleneck of Israel’s middle section. A military strategist might argue that this is a natural military “choke point,” and that losing sudden control of it would easily cut off Israel’s two halves from each other. This is likely a big reason why Israel is accelerating its illegal settlement encroachment into this particular area of the West Bank, while the slaughtering continues unabated in Gaza.

 

3. Negev Desert: It’s an extensive region of land that still remains significantly underutilized, in terms of desert agriculture methods and natural resource extraction. Israel understands that a two-state solution with a non-contiguous Palestine (or a non-contiguous Israel) can’t relieve certain levels of tension (partly due to national transportation logistics), and that contiguity may likely require relinquishing this connecting region between Gaza and the West Bank (a region, by the way, that contains Israel’s critical nuclear weapons facility near Dimona). It’s in Israel’s interest, therefore, to remove Gaza from the entire equation of negotiation.

 

Summary: I think geopolitical explanations are more fundamental. Retributive self-defense and religion are what settler colonialists tell others and each other to justify their horrible behavior.

 

Thoughts?? Am I right? Wrong? Can I at least get an eyeroll acknowledgment, pretty please?! Thank you.

Your geopolitical considerations are, I'm afraid, pretty compelling.

Take a look at the last Trump Administration proposal for linking Gaza to the West Bank. Gaza would be connected to the rest of the Palestinian independent state by a tunnel. t was pretty clearly never going to work. I guess something similar worked for two or three decades with West Berlin, but still ... "unstable" is the keyword. (And by doing this, I'm not specifically targeting the Trump plan; no other plan has had any acceptable way of dealing with Gaza)

 

 

 

[Justice]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwJhgQX/
 

Many will have to come to grips with this on this site. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Justice said:

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwJhgQX/
 

Many will have to come to grips with this on this site. 

 

Come to grips with what?  That Hamas needs to be eliminated?

[reddogblitz]

On 4/15/2024 at 4:02 AM, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

In their partial defense, Justice, they’re being fed a steady dose of Zionist propaganda from corporate media and/or independent far-right media. Most here are likely unaware of the recent settler rampages in the West Bank.

 

Now seems like a good time to update my post on the ongoing genocide (page 183 of this thread; March 4). As a reminder to the readership, systemic reckless indifference to civilian casualties can constitute legal proof of genocidal intent. We don’t need to wait for Bibi to hold up a sign that states, “Hey everyone! I am officially committing genocide!” We don’t need a particular minimum number of casualties. We don’t need to see red-soaked, red-handed IDF hands holding Hutu-fashioned machetes. Not every genocide looks the same.

 

Further evidence of genocide:

 

1. The aforementioned systemic heedlessness toward civilian casualties: Euro-Med HRM can’t report as often because virtually all aspects of societal order in Gaza have collapsed. Nevertheless, the latest update on April 3 reports 37,676 civilian deaths and 3,280 combatant deaths for a historically unacceptable 9.86:1 civilian casualty ratio (for comparison: the overall ratio for WW2 was no worse than 2:1). This is the numerical consequence of indiscriminate bombing and AI programs like “Lavender” and “Where’s Daddy.” There are also numerous reports of Gazans being killed despite waiving white flags.

 

2. Weaponizing famine: significant delays and restrictions (~70%) to food convoys, cancelling UNRWA, widespread destruction of Gazan farmland, and of course the World Central Kitchen murders that fit within this larger pattern of similar behavior.

 

3. Targeting health care workers: Never mind the near-complete eradication of Gaza’s hospital infrastructure; a frightening number of reports have been coming out of hospital staff members being deliberately targeted, such as those at Gaza’s critical Al-Shifa Hospital. The IDF have also destroyed most Red Crescent vehicles in Gaza, in addition to the Palestine RC Society headquarters in Khan Younis.

 

4. Suppressing war crime coverage: Al Jazeera was recently banned throughout Israel. Gaza has now set the record for the most journalists killed in one location within one year. There are also numerous reports of IDF bulldozers burying bodies before Gazans can get to them.

 

Poopiness…gotta get ready for work…later today or tonight, I want to post additional thoughts on the “intent” component behind Israel’s genocide. I’m sorry your people are experiencing this, Justice. I wish I could do more to help than write super lengthy posts that no one reads, in a sad politics subforum of a perennially disappointing pro football team.

 

You make some very good points. But I would like to dive a little further into what constitutes genocide in the Israel/Hamas situation.  In 1948, genocide was defined by the United Nations Genocide Committee.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

 

It is defined as:

 

Quote

Article II of the Convention defines genocide as:

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

 

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

 

a - both sides are guilty of killing the other group.

b - also covers rape as a mental and bodily harm. Hamas is definitely guilty of this.  

 

Quote

This second prohibited act can encompass a wide range of non-fatal genocidal acts.[34] The ICTR and International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) have held that rape and sexual violence may constitute the second prohibited act of genocide by causing both physical and mental harm. In its landmark Akayesu decision, the ICTR held that rapes and sexual violence resulted in "physical and psychological destruction"

 

c - I believe this is the one most hang their hat on in regards to the open air prison. Israel could be said to be guilty of this.

d - Israel is definitely not doing this LOL.  Neither is Hamas.

e - neither side is doing this.

 

I can't say for sure there is or isn't. But if there is, neither side has clean hands.

 

Since the definition says any of the 5, it would seem to be 2 genocides going on there.

 

President Biden's Secretary of Defense, General Austin, says there's not a genocide going on.

[SCBills]

Something’s going on right now, but the only place you’d realize that is on X

 

 

[Wacka]

RAV  -Real America's Voice was reporting on the Israeli retaliation at 9:30 PM.

[ComradeKayAdams]

13 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

You make some very good points. But I would like to dive a little further into what constitutes genocide in the Israel/Hamas situation.  In 1948, genocide was defined by the United Nations Genocide Committee.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

 

It is defined as:

 

 

a - both sides are guilty of killing the other group.

b - also covers rape as a mental and bodily harm. Hamas is definitely guilty of this.  

 

 

c - I believe this is the one most hang their hat on in regards to the open air prison. Israel could be said to be guilty of this.

d - Israel is definitely not doing this LOL.  Neither is Hamas.

e - neither side is doing this.

 

I can't say for sure there is or isn't. But if there is, neither side has clean hands.

 

Since the definition says any of the 5, it would seem to be 2 genocides going on there.

 

President Biden's Secretary of Defense, General Austin, says there's not a genocide going on.

 

I would refer to what Hamas has been doing as “terrorism,” not “genocide.” The difference lies in the power dynamics, the scale of application, and the nature of the political intent. Both Hamas and the Israeli government, however, are clearly guilty of horrific crimes against humanity. All involved participants should be removed from positions of power and brought before international courts of law.

 

Regarding your disagreement with definitional clause “D,” think about what a pregnant woman might need to successfully give birth to a baby: sufficient food (calories and nutrients), clean water, shelter (ideally with regulated temperatures), access to medical supplies, access to a hospital and a medical staff, safe and efficient transportation services, minimal stress and anxiety (i.e. no PTSD in a war zone), etc… If Israel is NOT deliberately imposing measures to prevent Gazan births, then they sure don’t seem too concerned about the welfare of the potential mothers, either!! But the pattern of humanitarian aid restrictions and hospital destruction, along with the reports of war crimes inside these hospitals, DO strongly suggest clause “D” genocidal intent.

 

General Austin can say whatever he wants about the slaughter in Gaza, but the conflict of interest within his professional position is apparent. He serves Genocide Joe’s administration (and would behave identically under Decimation Don’s). The United States is unsurprisingly loath to admit its role as an empire funding a genocidal vassal state, just as Israel is loath to admit its role as a settler colonial ethnostate seeking territorial control and regional hegemony.

[Doc]

If you want to call what Israel is doing to Gaza "genocide," you can blame Hamas for that. That's what happens when you use your own people as human shields, hide in schools/hospitals, etc. 

[Tiberius]

3 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

 just as Israel is loath to admit its role as a settler colonial ethnostate seeking territorial control and regional hegemony.

Religious state?

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

If you want to call what Israel is doing to Gaza "genocide," you can blame Hamas for that. That's what happens when you use your own people as human shields, hide in schools/hospitals, etc. 

Hamas is to blame for bombing aide workers who were clearly marked and in contact with IDF?

On 4/16/2024 at 9:04 AM, LeviF said:

 

Just like a certain demographic in the US, Israel is allowed (with significant help from mainstream media...wonder why) to project the idea that history begins with the reactions to their provocations.

What demographic in US?

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Hamas is to blame for bombing aide workers who were clearly marked and in contact with IDF?

 

No.  And I never said they were.

[Tiberius]

53 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No.  And I never said they were.

Good, there is blame to go around then 

[Tommy Callahan]

This is being shared by anti semites across social media. 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

And it continues 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

 

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:03 AM, Tiberius said:

Religious state?

 

No, Tibsy, Israel is an ethnostate. Secular Jews benefit from the same apartheid state privileges as do practicing religious Jews (the special legal status of the ultra-Orthodox notwithstanding…even though that was very recently overturned by law).

 

The U.S. shouldn’t be encouraging ethnostates by funding them. Until there is a one-state solution with equal rights for every Israeli citizen within the country’s borders (albeit with special constitutional protections for Jews from tyranny-of-the-majority complications), I doubt the endemic violence and political turmoil there can ever inherently go away. Two-state solutions, in my opinion, simply promote ethnic segregation and can’t practically resolve the illegal settlement issues (among so many other issues).

 

Having said that…a two-state solution of two adjacent ethnostates is FAR preferable to the status quo! Ultimately, it is up to Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to decide how they want to live there…I’m just a silly New Yorker…with beautiful long hair…just like you, Tibsy!!

[Tiberius]

50 minutes ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

No, Tibsy, Israel is an ethnostate. Secular Jews benefit from the same apartheid state privileges as do practicing religious Jews (the special legal status of the ultra-Orthodox notwithstanding…even though that was very recently overturned by law).

 

The U.S. shouldn’t be encouraging ethnostates by funding them. Until there is a one-state solution with equal rights for every Israeli citizen within the country’s borders (albeit with special constitutional protections for Jews from tyranny-of-the-majority complications), I doubt the endemic violence and political turmoil there can ever inherently go away. Two-state solutions, in my opinion, simply promote ethnic segregation and can’t practically resolve the illegal settlement issues (among so many other issues).

 

Having said that…a two-state solution of two adjacent ethnostates is FAR preferable to the status quo! Ultimately, it is up to Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to decide how they want to live there…I’m just a silly New Yorker…with beautiful long hair…just like you, Tibsy!!

👍

[B-Man]

 

 

One wishes that the US had accountability.

 

 

 

ACCOUNTABILITY: Israel’s Military Spy Chief Resigns Over Oct. 7 Hamas Attack.

 

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israels-military-spy-chief-quits-first-to-shoulder-blame-for-hamas-attack-945eba68

 

.

[Tiberius]

 

[JDHillFan]

 

[Doc]

15 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

 

Can't get the article.  What is the likely explanation?  That Hamas did it?

 

[JDHillFan]

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Can't get the article.  What is the likely explanation?  That Hamas did it?

 

Basically “ Hamas reports atrocities”. 

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Basically “ Hamas reports atrocities”. 

And the headline is misleading because ... what?

It reads "Says Gaza Defense."

[JDHillFan]

17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

And the headline is misleading because ... what?

It reads "Says Gaza Defense."

I know you mounted a half-hearted defense of Big Media a little bit earlier but it’s my opinion that running a headline like this, while factual, is certainly slanted to manipulate the reader into thinking “Israel bad”. It’s a story that CNN admits within cannot be confirmed. The word “Hamas” does not appear. 
 

As someone that removed Jews from the discussion while trying to argue on behalf of University presidents that were unwilling to declare harassment of Jews as being against university policy, it doesn’t surprise me that you take no issue here. 
 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

 

[Justice]

Bye bye to another $95b. We deserve every ounce of ***** that’s coming our way. SMH. 

[Justice]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:57 AM, Doc said:

If you want to call what Israel is doing to Gaza "genocide," you can blame Hamas for that. That's what happens when you use your own people as human shields, hide in schools/hospitals, etc. 

attaboy! That’s a good doggy. 

Honestly man you Israel supporters are some of the dumbest MFers to ever walk the face of the earth. How do you function day to day? Do your toilets come with an owners manual? How about your door knobs? I can see why there’s a warning label on plastic bags. 

[Unforgiven]

4 hours ago, Justice said:

attaboy! That’s a good doggy. 

Honestly man you Israel supporters are some of the dumbest MFers to ever walk the face of the earth. How do you function day to day? Do your toilets come with an owners manual? How about your door knobs? I can see why there’s a warning label on plastic bags. 

hmm I seem to remember another group of people who hated Jews with a passion...

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

4 hours ago, Justice said:

attaboy! That’s a good doggy. 

Honestly man you Israel supporters are some of the dumbest MFers to ever walk the face of the earth. How do you function day to day? Do your toilets come with an owners manual? How about your door knobs? I can see why there’s a warning label on plastic bags. 

If I had to choose Isreal or Palestine, I'm never choosing Palestine. Not sorry either. Take your crusade somewhere else. Hamas is a vile presence, and they were elected.

[Tommy Callahan]

When they tell you who they are and what they want, listen 

 

 

 

Higher learning full of brown shirts cosplaying the  red guard 

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Justice said:

attaboy! That’s a good doggy. 

Honestly man you Israel supporters are some of the dumbest MFers to ever walk the face of the earth. How do you function day to day? Do your toilets come with an owners manual? How about your door knobs? I can see why there’s a warning label on plastic bags. 

 

Sorry but you lost any sympathy with what happened on 10/7.  But I'm sure that what happened that day is all lies and everything I mentioned is as well.

[Justice]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Sorry but you lost any sympathy with what happened on 10/7.  But I'm sure that what happened that day is all lies and everything I mentioned is as well.

You never had any sympathy to begin with. You think it’s totally fine for Palestinian people to live their one and only life in an open air prison. And you want them to like it too. Oct 7th was horrible but it’s been Oct 7th everyday for 200 days in Gaza but you don’t care because you’re a horrible, despicable human being without a heart. 
 

For all you bigots here you need to realize one very simple thing and that is Israel needs to give equal rights to every single person in Israel. No more of this West Bank and Gaza *****. Make it one state. Hyphenate that B word if you have to. Or it can just be called Israel and let MFers see the beach for once. 

2 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said:

When they tell you who they are and what they want, listen 

 

 

 

Higher learning full of brown shirts cosplaying the  red guard 

the people that live there, that I’ve spoken to, only want 67 borders 

5 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

If I had to choose Isreal or Palestine, I'm never choosing Palestine. Not sorry either. Take your crusade somewhere else. Hamas is a vile presence, and they were elected.

No I won’t take my crusade somewhere else. I don’t have to listen to you. I hope we lose the US one day soon so you will finally understand what it feels like to be Palestinian. At what length would you go to fight for your country to get it back if you lost it? And Israel is equally as vile as Hamas. You can’t see that you’re just a ***** bigot. Netanyahu the ***** criminal was elected too you, dumb B word.

Edited Thursday at 03:26 PM by Justice

[Justice]

5 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

hmm I seem to remember another group of people who hated Jews with a passion...

 

Oh stfu with that bull####. Through it all I raise my kids to not hate anyone just so I can come here and listen to this *****? Plenty of Jewish people are protesting alongside the pro Palestinians you moron. Explain that!!!! And that right wing government doesn’t represent Jewish people. 

[Justice]

You see this is the problem with you right wing government supporters. You’re backing a regime that’s the enemy of freedom. Conservatives? They’re running through our tax dollars for foreign nations while leaving our borders wide open and you all sit there like the cucks you are!! They’re protecting other people’s borders while ignoring our own! And this is what you support?!! Have your heads examined. 

[LeviF]

Conservatives are skeptical of everything mainstream media tells them except about Israel/Palestine and a certain European nation between 1933 and 1945.

[Justice]

5 minutes ago, LeviF said:

Conservatives are skeptical of everything mainstream media tells them except about Israel/Palestine and a certain European nation between 1933 and 1945.

Exactly. There isn’t any blue or red when it comes to them it’s just purple. The one thing they all agree on. Why? Who knows? Maybe some Epstein island ***** or maybe it’s all that lobbyist money paying off both sides. How this is legal is beyond me. We’ve been infiltrated. Netanyahu on US television talking about protests that are happening in our country! This is not ok! He fails to mention plenty of those people protesting are JEWISH. He can do that so he can claim antisemitism. He sits there and lies to our faces and the sheep just eat it up. What the f happened to the US??? 

[The Frankish Reich]

21 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

The word “Hamas” does not appear. 

Ooh, that one's easy. How many times do we see "The IDF Claims ..."

Do they say "The Likud Party Claims ..."

Seriously, anyone who follows the news - that is, anyone inclined to read such headlines - knows that the Gaza Defense Force is the military wing of the Hamas-run government.

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

42 minutes ago, Justice said:

You never had any sympathy to begin with. You think it’s totally fine for Palestinian people to live their one and only life in an open air prison. And you want them to like it too. Oct 7th was horrible but it’s been Oct 7th everyday for 200 days in Gaza but you don’t care because you’re a horrible, despicable human being without a heart. 
 

For all you bigots here you need to realize one very simple thing and that is Israel needs to give equal rights to every single person in Israel. No more of this West Bank and Gaza *****. Make it one state. Hyphenate that B word if you have to. Or it can just be called Israel and let MFers see the beach for once. 

the people that live there, that I’ve spoken to, only want 67 borders 

No I won’t take my crusade somewhere else. I don’t have to listen to you. I hope we lose the US one day soon so you will finally understand what it feels like to be Palestinian. At what length would you go to fight for your country to get it back if you lost it? And Israel is equally as vile as Hamas. You can’t see that you’re just a ***** bigot. Netanyahu the ***** criminal was elected too you, dumb B word.

I don't have to listen to you and your bias. Go cry somewhere else.

30 minutes ago, Justice said:

You see this is the problem with you right wing government supporters. You’re backing a regime that’s the enemy of freedom. Conservatives? They’re running through our tax dollars for foreign nations while leaving our borders wide open and you all sit there like the cucks you are!! They’re protecting other people’s borders while ignoring our own! And this is what you support?!! Have your heads examined. 

Open borders isn't a right wing problem, try again.

[LeviF]

6 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

 

Open borders isn't a right wing problem, try again.

 

You know, there's a fully USA-funded, nearly completely finished border wall that had bipartisan support in Congress. It's in Israel.