Where is the data to suggest that things will change?

[RyanC883]

44 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

A number of folks have made comments, similar to one upthread in this thread, talking about a lack of a disciplinary voice within the Bills coaching staff for Josh.

Someone to keep him sharp.  Someone here last night said his problem is he views Dorsey as a peer and not a boss type figure.

 

I think there is really something to this; a change needs to be made.  This is 100% on McDermott to make it happen, and fast.

 

Will he?  I don't think he is smart enough to be that insightful, assess the problem, and find a good fix for it.

 

Expect more of the same inconsistent play from Josh, and plenty of wild-eyed hero ball.

 

It won't be every game!  It will come and go.

 

 

 

 

 

but it will crop up at the worst times and lose regular season games we should have won (Jets 2X now, Vikings) and cost us playoff games.  

[Virgil]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 

but it will crop up at the worst times and lose regular season games we should have won (Jets 2X now, Vikings) and cost us playoff games.  

 

Exactly this

[Toyo321]

40 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Spot on accurate here.  These types of games would be aberrations for any other elite QB.  JA does this MULTIPLE times every year.  This is who JA is.  A gunslinging turnover machine.  JA's aberrations are zero turnover games and 300+ yards.  He's never gonna be Mahomes.....not even close.  Have to accept who he is and embrace it.  If the stars align and the Bills get some lucky bounces, they may win a SB with him...but I don't see it happening for another 3-4 years and that's if he's even still healthy enough to do it.  McD won't be here when it happens and neither will Dorsey.

There is one thing missing here, Pegula is head over heels in love with Beane and McD.  To be honest they got us almost to the top of the mountain,  but that is where it ends they do not possess the the skills and or the mentality to get us to the summit.  The Summit is a SB Winning team.  As long as both of these guys are running the train we are on the train to nowhere.

 

It begins at the top.  That is what they did in KC, that is what Cinci did, the same for SF and the Eagles.  They got the people that could run the train that actually have a clue on what it takes to make it all the way to the top.  Not so with our GM and coaching staff.  We are a bogged down train that is losing momentum and there is no sign that the we can gain any of that momentum back for a future run at the summit.

 

Sad but it's true.  The performance in last year's playoff loss, has filtered over again already 1 game into this season.  Different season same crap baggage being lugged around by this team.

 

It's disheartening to say the least.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Spot on accurate here.  These types of games would be aberrations for any other elite QB.  JA does this MULTIPLE times every year.  This is who JA is.  A gunslinging turnover machine.  JA's aberrations are zero turnover games and 300+ yards.  He's never gonna be Mahomes.....not even close.  Have to accept who he is and embrace it.  If the stars align and the Bills get some lucky bounces, they may win a SB with him...but I don't see it happening for another 3-4 years and that's if he's even still healthy enough to do it.  McD won't be here when it happens and neither will Dorsey.

 

Ok we’re beyond peak stupid at this point. 
 

The fumbles are an issue but we can correct that.  
 

The INT machine for his career compared to these other so called elites:

 

 

Allen in 78 games 63 INTs

Burrow in 43 games 31 INTs 

Herbert in 50 games 35 INTs

 

Mahomes in 81 games 50 INTs - his HC is Andy Reid.  
 

 

Allen had 12 INTs his rookie year.  
 

He’s had 17 INTs since Dorsey became OC - 17 games.  

 

 

 

 

Under Daboll:  49 games: 34 INTs

 

That’s a better clip then Burrow.  
 

Dorsey sucks.  

 
Any sane competent objective outsider will tell you whatever Dorsey is doing with Allen isn’t as good as what Daboll got out of him. 
 

Or, it’s either just the Jets.  And Josh was hurt last year.  

 

 

I’m saying it’s both.  

Edited September 12, 2023 by Big Blitz

[The Frankish Reich]

24 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Yes you do.

Ouch.

40 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

OK be honest, you wrote that out in word or something and cut and pasted it into this holy Christ

We wouldn't want people to actually read what they've written before clicking "Post New Topic," now would we ...

[Mikie2times]

Dorsey is not ripping a pass downfield into a sea of defenders. This Peyton Manning and Joe Burrow comp is also horse *****. Yes, Manning was a trash playoff QB. How does that matter for Allen when he plays like a trash QB? Allen is not Peyton. He's more like Favre. Who was also a trash playoff QB. People on this board are confusing Josh for something he isn't. If you don't have tape on him. If you put him in a system with limited options. If you build playbook to limit hero ball. That is the old Josh that everybody is pining for. Josh will never perform that way again unless something drastic changes. The version we are seeing now is what Allen looks like when he has to be a normal QB, the league has tape on him, and he has unlimited freedom. He still will try everything he can to improvise. To run. It won't work very well. He will struggle to stay within the designed play. He will make mistakes as a result of getting impatient. It's not an injury, or a game, or an aberration. It's who Allen is. Same as it was who Favre was. How people are so blind to this around here is beyond me. You can still enjoy the guy a hell of a lot. Just as you could enjoy Favre a hell of a lot. You can still hope for change. But if you think what you're seeing is somehow not who he actually is, delusional. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Mikie2times

[corta765]

17 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

There is one thing missing here, Pegula is head over heels in love with Beane and McD.  To be honest they got us almost to the top of the mountain,  but that is where it ends they do not possess the the skills and or the mentality to get us to the summit.  The Summit is a SB Winning team.  As long as both of these guys are running the train we are on the train to nowhere.

 

The Pegula's went from having a crappy product that was nationally a doormat, didn't make the playoffs, and overall joke to one of the nationally relevant teams that has won a lot with star players like Diggs and Vonn willing to come here. Winning the SB is incredibly incredibly difficult and is a mixture of luck, timing, and a good team. The best franchises have owners who hire smart people and proceed to stay the F out of it and do not get involved. The same remarks you made about Beane and McD have been said countless times by people in other markets right up until they won a SB. This is a clock on both but they haven't even lost the division crown yet let alone missed a playoff appearance so I would expect the Pegulas to still give a lot of leash. Truthfully if I was an owner I would also. Now in two years if it is still pure regression then yea I would expect new faces heading into 2025. But the Eagles for two decades plus now have been a model franchise owner Jeffrey Loria and have a total of one SB win and three appearances. They have won a lot and the greatest criticism they have gotten was firing Andy Reid as he "couldn't win the big one"... OR maybe now that he has a better QB you see what quality coaching can do. Again winning the crown is tough, the Bills blew it four times when they had it in the 90s. That will hang forever over the franchise until they do win a title and it no longer matters. The Bills also will most likely not be getting four shots at it either so when it comes embrace it and hope we finally get our time.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

The first week of the season was interesting, to say the least.  There were some scores and performances that were truly head scratchers.  While I could use the term "any given Sunday" for a lot of those games, the Bills game just feels different.  This didn't feel like a fluke game for Josh, the players, and the coaches.  No, this felt like the game right after the Bengals loss.  For me, that's why this game hurts so much.  I don't care that it was against the Jets or on MNF, I care that there is no data to suggest that this team has taken any type of step forward in the areas that matter.  

 

Now, there were positives in this game

• James Cook was clearly the number one back and did well enough in the role.  
• Defensive pass rush with Floyd and Groot looked really good.  However, isn't the Jets offensive line not that great?
• Milano looked like a beast and a true disrupter.  The PF was stupid on his part
• Bass continues to be solid
• Diggs got his touches and broke 100 yards

 

But here's where I'm just plain depressed and am hoping it wears off over the next few days, because right now...I have no reason to be optimistic about this upcoming season

• Dorsey actually looked decent in the first quarter.  Used Harty in a way that made me realize why we signed him.  Ran some power formations that he passed out of.  Overall had some good looks.  Once he ran through his scripted plays, is when things went off the rails
  • Did we run a single 12 man, basic line-up?  I'm talking 5 lineman, 1 TE on both sides, Diggs and Davis on the alternate sides out wide, and Cook in the backfield.  Very simple, very vanilla, just run formation with our guys against yours.  The Jets stayed in the same 4 lineman, 7 in coverage almost the entire game.  The linebackers, 2 or 3 at times, were 4-5 yards off the ball.  Why not just use basic match and say, our 7 guys are going to take out your front 4 and get an easy 3-5 yards each rush.  Run it to every possible gap, and repeat.  Sure, we may not get a first down every time, but do it until the Jets adjust because they would eventually have to.   That's when Josh eats.  This also sets up the play action, so we can use that guy we just spent a number one pick on.  Also, on the game tying drive at by Josh, that was one of the few drives that Josh did well because the Jets started to blitz.  This all seems so obvious to me, but maybe I'm missing something
  • The draw play on the last drive.   Should one play define a coordinators entire game?  No.  But when you run the ball against their best defensive lineman behind your worst offensive lineman, you need to explain that.  Again, maybe I'm stupid, I'm betting on that play to lose 10 times out of 10.
  • Where were the bunch formations?  Jets were in a spread zone and don't move Sauce around.  Bunch the other side of the field and run the tosses, quick screens to that side.  Again, basic math
• For the first time in Josh's career, I feel like he's peaked.  Great, elite QB's, don't do what Josh did tonight.  It's not the 3 interceptions and fumble, but it kind of is.  It's the fact that everyone knew how the Jets were going to play him.  Hell, even Josh knew and admitted it.  What does he do with this information?  The same thing he always does against defenses like this.  Take the underneath stuff to start the game, get frustrated, and then start pushing it downfield.  The first interception, I gave a pass.  He couldn't have ran with it like some people think because alternate camera angles showed a player waiting for him 7 yards downfield.  That interception was basically a punt.  The second interception was just plain stupid and potentially cost us at least 3 points, as we were a first down away from being in range.  The last two turnovers were all Josh and his lack of concentration.  You want to be elite?  We can't be talking about your ability to think in the 4th quarter.
• The big play ratio.  Count the big plays between teams?  The Jets had at least 2 and we had zero.  I'm talking chunk yardage plays.  No matter how much the defense changes we are good for at least two a game and it never changes.
• The big needs.  I've said all offseason that we needed to address OT, MLB, and pass catcher.  We got a pass catcher, but didn't feel the need to use him.  Brown was an absolute liability out there and Dorsey had to give him help on multiple plays.  Bernard got tackled as much by his own feet and teammates as he did the other team.  Dude got absolutely absorbed or blown up on multiple plays.  He did have one good tackle that showed promise, but McD finally stepped up and started bring Rapp into the game more.  Again, I wouldn't be so mad if the obvious weaknesses weren't so damn obvious and we all saw them coming.

 

So here we are, only 0-1 with a whole season ahead of us.  My problem is, what data is there to suggest that this season is going to be any different from the last 6.  Josh isn't taking the next step and adjusting his issues.  Dorsey doesn't know how to call plays to his players strengths, what is happening on the field, or make second half adjustments.  The defense is great, but gives up enough big plays to keep the other team in it.  We are good enough to beat 70% of the teams, but we can't step up in the big games when it matters.  13 seconds might be the best game of this teams era, but we still lost.  Because that's what we do in the big games.  Some part of our team finds a way to lose. 

 

I can't get excited for the Raiders and Commanders, because I still expect to win and it will mean nothing.  There's just no data to suggest that this team is going to take the next step and it became obvious in the first game of the season.  There's no data to suggest that this team can make adjustments.  Until further notice, I'm just meh about it all.  

 

And here's the only truly extreme comment I will make about changes.  I like McD and the culture he created.  But he's also no absorbed in the defense and hands off with the offense.  He's allowed Josh to surround himself with a coordinator that Josh likes and back-ups that are Josh's friends.  Josh needs someone who is going to bench his ass, punch him in the mouth, and make him actually accountable in the moment.  That doesn't exist right now except for Diggs.  That's not enough.  Josh isn't going to change on his own and right now, I don't know who else is going to push him.  If there is a downfall of McD, it will be that.

 

Go Bills

Home run post here!!!!!!!

 

I echo your sentiment loud and clear. 

 

Take everything you said into account. The begging question is what gets the team to advance further? 

 

in my eyes it's pretty clear and I've made my opinions very clear over the offseason. This team needs a jump start and a change The status quo isn't going to get it done. We've seen it over and over. Yesterday, was a microcosm of the past failures. It's not an anomaly. The weaknesses and flaws of the team still exist despite the attempted changes. 

 

The regime and coaches make moves but they don't produce significant results. First, it was  finding a RB and then a pass rusher. Now, it's finding offensive weapons and building an oline. It's hard to be confident these new moves will pan out. It's been mostly disappointment after disappointment. 

 

The team still trots out Spencer Brown who hurts the team more than helps. The team trots out Bernard who hurts the team more than helps the team. Head scratching decisions. The team still trots out WR2 Gabe Davis who can't separate unless he has 10 seconds to do so. 

 

Yet, the coaching staff and management sell us the product. Tell us how Gabe works so hard, Brown will improve, and we like the guys we have at MLB. Many optimistic fans tell the cynical Bills fans trust the process and McD and Beane. Special shout out to poster SHAW here. IMHO, that trust is dwindling and eroding. 

 

With that said, this need needs a coaching change in the worst way. McD has max'ed out his time here. Appreciate his accomplishments but recognize his time is up. The team won't get over the hump. The clapping and good guy persona has taken it's course. Great team builder but not a finisher. No better evidence of that then 13 seconds and the Cincy throttling. No need to see more. The writing is on the wall it's just a matter of do you wanna read it. Must here don't. I get it. 

 

Dorsey continues to learn on the job and hurt the team. His inexperience and lack of creativity is glaring obvious. His game time adjustments are God awful and his ability to reign in Allen is problematic to say the least. Dorsey has been anything but a positive for this team. 

 

Now, I'm a bit conflicted on Beane. His failures have contributed to the Bills failure to progress further. The Bills cap issues and older roster issues aren't going away soon. 

 

Yet, Beane and his willing to swing for the home run with Allen has resulted in great success. Six straight playoff appearances is impressive. That pick single handily changed the franchise. It didn't come without controversy either. 

 

Playoff appearances just don't cut it anymore. The goal is AFC championship and SB. Maybe my standards are too high? Sure it's difficult but enough of the excuses. This fan is tired of them...

 

Solid GMs are hard to find. At least that's my initial thought process. Perhaps, I'm wrong here. I'm still conflicted on whether moving in from Beane is advantageous or not. 

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

 

[appoo]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

If you’re the Dolphins, your confidence in winning the division has to be at an all time high right now. 

That'll change in week 4

[Ballhawk]

I think the problem is that Dorsey is not recognizing how this offense works best. Daboll understood we have to pass to set up the run and use Allen's legs to run in the crunch. This coaching staff seems to want to will this team to be run first and make Allen a pocket passer.

 

Let's face it, the best version of this team is a finesse air attack with a complementing run game. I wish that were not the case and this administration seem to acquire guards (Torrence) and RBs (Harris) to change this narrative, but it's not enough. Nothing about last night convinced me we will assert ourselves and run successfully into loaded boxes for short yardage conversions. By trying to make this offense into something it is not, it is actually worse.

 

I actually believe our defense could be special with Von and Kirksey. I would take the highflying passing attack that uses Allen's legs and the running backs once we've loosened up the box with this defense over what we are seeing.

 

It is only one week and the Jets clearly have a great defense (I actually thought ours was as good arguably better). Until this staff stops trying to adjust player style to the offensive scheme we will see this offense continue to regress. 

 

Just think if we had the 2020 Offense under Daboll with the 2023 defense under McDermott this year.

 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Success said:

" Great, elite QB's, don't do what Josh did tonight"

 

I mean, I just started a thread earlier about Peyton Manning throwing 6 picks in a primetime game.  And they all have had games like that.

 

As to the main question of the OP: I was pretty encouraged by literally every other facet of the game for the Bills. I thought the pass rush was way better, the O-line was good, Bernard held up well, Kincaid looked like the guy we hoped he would be, Groot has taken a next step, et al.  

 

This is a better team than last year.  Josh just has to be better than he was last night.

 

Wow. I'm not sure what game you watched. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Not sure if serious....

 

Mocking the posts and threads on the Tuesday after. I have to be honest though, I found really nothing good about last night. I'm not a blind Homer I could see things very clearly and I did not like what I saw. 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

Mocking the posts and threads on the Tuesday after. I have to be honest though, I found really nothing good about last night. I'm not a blind Homer I could see things very clearly and I did not like what I saw. 

 

Phew. I didn't think that was real.

 

I agree to an extent about last night. But really, it was just Allen.  He had one of his worst games.  All I can do is hope it's not going to be the norm or anything, and I don't think it will be.  I thought the rest of the team was solid.

 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Success said:

" Great, elite QB's, don't do what Josh did tonight"

 

I mean, I just started a thread earlier about Peyton Manning throwing 6 picks in a primetime game.  And they all have had games like that.

 

As to the main question of the OP: I was pretty encouraged by literally every other facet of the game for the Bills. I thought the pass rush was way better, the O-line was good, Bernard held up well, Kincaid looked like the guy we hoped he would be, Groot has taken a next step, et al.  

 

This is a better team than last year.  Josh just has to be better than he was last night.

 

So much better they lost to a Jets team without Aaron Rodgers. 

 

Let that sink in.

 

The same issues from last year presented itself last night. Watch last year's game and yesterday's game. The similarities are there. 

 

The oline wasn't good! 

 

The D can't give up huge plays like that!

 

The Bills offense besides Diggs did nothing impressive. No major weapons or big plays. Kincaid was OK and looks promising. But it was not game changing or significant. His impact was nil. Cook looked decent but he can't shed a tackle. Too light in the ass. Teams aren't afraid of him but do they game plan for him. 

 

Allen was horrible in the second half. Up there with one of his poorer performances. Pretty concerning for a franchise QB. That is pretty inexcusable when the underneath throws were there all night. 

 

The pass rush looked good but the jury is still out. How consistent can it be? The Jets oline pass protection is poor. The Jets offense is bottom tier.

 

The back up QB still made big plays in key situations to beat the Bills. For the must part the D held there own The loss isn't on them. 

 

I see things a lot differently then you. Not a bad thing. I just have a really difficult time being optimistic after last night. 

 

PS: I thought the Bills would still win the game after they won the OT coin toss. I was optimistic about an OT win. 

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

A lot of blame is (rightfully so) being put on Josh. However, I believe there are several layers to this onion:

 

- Allen’s offensive line has him shook, and has had him shook for about a year now. Allen started the game something like 9 of 10 passing before Spencer Brown was bench pressed into his lap. Then Morse got embarrassingly beat by Quinnen Williams on the deep seam interception which rushed Allen’s throw/decision making. Allen was under pressure close to 50% of his dropbacks (stat below). That is unacceptable.

 

- I believe that there is one mind he respected and trusted in the Bills coaching staff, and that mind is now on the Giants payroll.

 

- My hypothesis is that Diggs emotions, desire to win and desire get the ball has put pressure on Josh that is not conducive to him playing well. It often feels like Josh is forcing the ball to Diggs.

 

- Coaching in general has been poor. Why do we only have 2 linebackers on the field when the Jets are playing 13 personnel? We really want a safety playing pseudo-LB?

 

 

 

 

Agree with everything but the Diggs take. Perhaps slightly true but Allen has always forced the ball to Diggs. That's nothing new here. 

[Success]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

So much better they lost to a Jets team without Aaron Rodgers. 

 

Let that sink in.

 

The same issues from last year presented itself last night. Watch last year's game and yesterday's game. The similarities are there. 

 

The oline wasn't good! 

 

The D can't give up huge plays like that!

 

The Bills offense besides Diggs did nothing impressive. No major weapons or big plays. Kincaid was OK and looks promising. But it was not game changing or significant. His impact was nil. Cook looked decent but he can't shed a tackle. Too light in the ass. Teams aren't afraid of him but do they game plan for him. 

 

Allen was horrible in the second half. Up there with one of his poorer performances. Pretty concerning for a franchise QB. That is pretty inexcusable when the underneath throws were there all night. 

 

The pass rush looked good but the jury is still out. How consistent can it be? The Jets oline pass protection is poor. The Jets offense is bottom tier.

 

The back up QB still made big plays in key situations to beat the Bills. For the must part the D held there own The loss isn't on them. 

 

I see things a lot differently then you. Not a bad thing. I just have a really difficult time being optimistic after last night. 

 

PS: I thought the Bills would still win the game after they won the OT coin toss. I was optimistic about an OT win. 

 

You're entitled to that opinion - and I can't argue w/ some of that.

 

The D gave up a couple of big runs.  Other than that, they were stout.  They gave up 1 TD. They pressured the passer all night.  Even the best D's give up a big play or 2 here and there.  It seems like all people are arguing is that they weren't perfect, but they did an amazing job considering the turnovers and the offense's inability to score points.

 

I thought Cook was very good - but hope Dorsey starts working Harris in more. He's more north-south, and would do better in the short yardage situations.  For Kincaid's first game, that was everything I could have hoped for.  He & Knox can be a real problem for defenses going forward - and last night's is likely to be one of the best we'll face (Dallas will be too).

 

Last night, to me, was Allen, Allen, Allen.  Who I still have great faith in. I said it on another thread, but he's kind of shaping up to be a Favre kind of QB.  You just have to take the bad w/ the good. Kelly was a little like that too.  Regardless, Allen is who we're riding with for the next decade+ - but he can get it done.  He hasn't figured out the Jets D yet.  It took Peyton Manning 7 years or so to finally get past New England's defense.

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Nephilim17 said:

Reasonable logical conclusions need to be drawn on a dataset that has a large enough sample size. 

Josh has the most turnovers (and overall touchdowns) in the last five years or so, I heard in a video today.

 

And Beast's thread on his TD/INT ratio since last year's KC game is a large sample of very recent evidence that Josh has been a turnover machine for a long stretch now.

 

He played poorly against Miami and Cincy in the playoffs.

 

And then, after all the talk and off-season resetting and "focus," he played a horrible game last night. The sample size is large and it absolutely recent.

 

Is his elbow to blame? His O-line? His coaching? His head-space?

I don't know. And I hope I'm wrong but until Josh starts to play at an elite level for a good stretch and including against elite teams, I think at the moment he is no longer an elite QB. An elite athlete, yes, but he has not shown elite game processing for a long time time.

I hope I'm wrong and/or it turns around. I'm not super confident. 😕

 

 

Really good post here. I'm a big Allen fan but this post hit home. 

[dpberr]

I don't think Ken Dorsey calls every play.  I suspect Josh Allen gets to pick plays himself for big chunks of the game, and it's often the completely wrong play to pick, it inevitably goes bust, and the hero ball commences. 

 

A calm, collected offense doesn't throw the ball 46 times when you're up on an opponent in a game like last night.   It is more precise.  It uses the bruising running backs it has to soften up that defensive line and run the clock.  

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

Seasons done. time to find a new regime from top to bottom. maybe terry sells the team and the new ownership rights the ship? wonder what they could get for a JA trade? he obviously isn't the answer at QB. every phase of the game needs to be stripped and reset. special teams sucks, defense couldn't stop a nose bleed and the offense as a whole is a disaster. then you take coaching. get rid of the whole staff.

 

this team will be lucky to win 6/7 games and will be no fun to watch, like last night was no fun to watch. I'm sure I can find better things to do with my Sunday, like fishing.

 

team/organization has been snake bit. it started back when they went to 4 straight super bowls and lost every one, four straight. then this group, gets close but always manages to ***** it up. as a fan, one can really take only so much. I have a thick skin, not much bothers me but there is no sense in going through another game let alone season when the outcome is pretty evident with this losing bunch. JA should be embarrassed from his performance last night. but when a team is snake bit, those kind of nights will continue to happen. throwing 3 picks to same player, 3. that just doesn't happen unless the team is the buffalo bills. a team that has brought more pain to its fans then any other nfl fan base out there.

 

sure, it was one game and some will write it off as that but the reality is that game was a clear picture of what is to come.

 

bamboo pole, some shade, good music and catch a few fish on Sunday afternoon. nice relaxing days ahead and more entertaining than watching this team meltdown like it did last night.

 

GO *cough cough BILLS...👎

 

 

Not many are saying what you imply. 

 

It's not doom and gloom after one game. 

 

Your mockery of Bills criticism isn't doing a service here nor is it productive. But hey if it makes you feel better have at it 

 

The real issue with validity is how the Bills lost not that they lost. Perhaps that too abstract for you to understand? 

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Can't thank this post enough. This board is INSANE today.  People talking about trading Josh and firing everyone.  

 

I mean, spoiler alert:  we'll still get double digit wins, and make the playoffs, and JA is likely to have a great season and be a top 5 QB at the end.  It will never be enough for some.

 

 I'll finish the rest of what you left out. And likely fizzle out in the playoffs again. 

 

You will see this as a successful season too. 

 

How did I do? 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Not many are saying what you imply. 

 

It's not doom and gloom after one game. 

 

Your mockery of Bills criticism isn't doing a service here nor is it productive. But hey if it makes you feel better have at it 

 

The real issue with validity is how the Bills lost not that they lost. Perhaps that too abstract for you to understand? 

 I'll finish the rest of what you left out. And likely fizzle out in the playoffs again. 

 

You will see this as a successful season too. 

 

How did I do? 

 

keep up with your crusade, I mean criticism. 🙄

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Exactly my point. The coaches want to run this short game ***** but their receivers aren’t very equipped to run it(outside of Diggs)… Harty looked like he had NO burst. Cook looked better but still lacks too acceleration and goes down at the first sign of contact…. Just another mis communication/***** up between the front office and coaching staff. 

Agree. The Bills offense lacks explosiveness. No one fears the Bills offensive weapons. Diggs is the only viable game changer. 

 

Cook to light in the as$, Davis a one trick pony, Kincaid still too raw and young, Knox too slow, Harty and Sherwood averages Joe's, Murray and Harris serviceable at best, 

 

The Bills offensive roster isn't that impressive. Couple that with an oline that's questionable. 

 

The offense is on Allen and pretty much always has been. The only time he really had a solid more complete offense was with Diggs, Beasley, and Brown. The believe the oline was better too. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Oh, for sure on your 1st paragraph there - I didn't take it as a call out.  I always respect your posting here. This is just good discussion.

 

And I don't like relying on momentum either. But as good as this team is, it doesn't seem like it could turn into the kind of force that wouldn't need some intangibles to get the title.  I think in most years, the team that wins it all is also not just the hottest at that time, but kind of lucky too.  That is certainly true of last year's Chiefs, who both got hot, and also got some very favorable officiating in the AFCCG and SB.

 

Honestly, the one thing that concerns me about this team is not Allen's detours into Favre-land (and I think that's the most appropriate comparison for him as a QB - a gunslinger who you have to take the bad w/ at times).  I do worry that McDermott and Dorsey just aren't up to the task.  McD has done a wonderful job turning this team into a contender, but I don't have faith right now that he can get us to a title.  I hope I'm wrong. People used to look at Reid the same way, when he was in Philly - so that gives me some hope.

 

Finally, a realistic view about the Bills coaching staff. 

 

Actually, I'm shocked it came out of your mouth. It's pretty refreshing and I appreciate your candor. 

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

The d-line is going to be a force and by seasons end top 3 in the league. I think fans are in for a ride with the line like the 2014 group fingers crossed injury wise. Let Groot and Floyd eat and mix Von and the rest carefully in as they go.

 

2. I am not as upset with Dorsey as some. This game was on Josh forcing plays and not taking what was given. I liked the attempt at yac, the screens, and Knox/Kincaid together in the middle should eat yards as the season progress. Brown sucked, but the rest were fine and Torrence looks great to have. I am willing to give Dorsey some time, I just need him to get Josh to chill more. A RT trade would be lovely though at the deadline.

The Dline surrounded huge running plays. I bummed knee prevented Hall from taking it to the house. 

 

I suspect the Bills will have difficulty stopping the run again. 

[newcam2012]

28 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

keep up with your crusade, I mean criticism. 🙄

I'm not on any crusade. I give criticism and praise as I see it. 

 

I was plenty optimistic and giving praise to the Bills in the live first half thread. I thought it was a fairly successful first half under the circumstances. Not  perfect but acceptable and a good. 

 

If I were in such a "crusade" I wouldn't have done such. It doesn't give me pleasure to criticize the Bills. I don't get any pleasure out of a Bills' loss, correct prediction, or a correct bet. 

 

My ultimate goal as a fan is to see a Lombardi Trophy hoisted by Bills players. To see a town turned upside down with euphoria. To celebrate as a Bills fans with other Bills fans. As a Bills football fan,  there will always be a void until that happens. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by newcam2012

[CircleTheWagons99]

Team is soft. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I'm not on any crusade. I give criticism and praise as I see it. 

 

I was plenty optimistic and giving praise to the Bills in the live first half thread. I thought it was a fairly successful first half under the circumstances. Not  perfect but acceptable and a good. 

 

If I were in such a "crusade" I wouldn't have done such. It doesn't give me pleasure to criticize the Bills. I don't get any pleasure out of a Bills' loss, correct prediction, or a correct bet. 

 

My ultimate goal as a fan is to see a Lombardi Trophy hoisted by Bills players. To see a town turned upside down with euphoria. To celebrate as a Bills fans with other Bills fans. As a Bills football fan,  there will always be a void until that happens. 

rake in some cashola did you. praise so much while still hoping you cash in on that bet.

 

carry on.

[Boatdrinks]

There aren’t any. Just have to see if they get it figured out, starting with Josh 

[newcam2012]

37 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

rake in some cashola did you. praise so much while still hoping you cash in on that bet.

 

carry on.

Incorrect assumption. I was cheering for the Bills the whole time without exception. 

 

The bet wasn't even an afterthought. I would gladly have taken $100 loss for a Bills win. 

 

I bet with my head not my heart. All good bettors know this. 

44 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

Team is soft. 

The team has had long term issues in the trenches. 

 

The team lacks explosive game changers on offense. 

 

The team gets out coached on a consistent basis. 

 

The team only goes as far as Allen takes them. Nothing was more clear than that last night. 

 

Side note: If the offense continues to under perform will McD look to fire Dorsey?