It ain't the coaches.

[Coach Tuesday]

These coaches have failed at situational awareness at critical times over and over again.  I don’t know what some of you are seeing out there.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, boyst said:

You need a coach who can coach one of the top 10 players in the league.

 

What's hard to understand?

 

apparently, you're having a hard time understanding my question.

 

if the plays are there to be made, but the qb chooses not to take them...how is that on the coaches? The coaches are there to give the play. It's on the player to execute the play.

 

[26TrapDraw]

58 minutes ago, Radar said:

Josh is very talented. Josh isn't stupid. I do think he tries to force things and do to much. Why? Probably some is just in his DNA but coaching is also questionable. Our coaching seems very average at best.

So throwing into triple coverage isn’t stupid? Josh made bad decisions last night period. Whatever the “Problem “ is needs to get fixed this week in the raiders game plan. If not this is going to be a very long season. The offense I saw called last night didn’t do him any favors either. Calling an inside run to our small rb against that dominant Jets front several times? Clownshow.

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

apparently, you're having a hard time understanding my question.

 

if the plays are there to be made, but the qb chooses not to take them...how is that on the coaches? The coaches are there to give the play. It's on the player to execute the play.

 

It’s in the coach to scheme for the QB. Joe D on WGR just made a great point about this. He’s not providing any structure for Allen at all. 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

53 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That ain't on the coaches 

I am not a huge McD or Dorsey fan but this was all on Josh. It’s his sixth year, he has to play more situational football. Dorsey isn’t bobbling a snap and not falling on it or launching down the field on 2 and 5.  Geez that was a bad night. This franchise finds some pretty unique ways to frustrate the fan base 

[boyst]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If Josh had gotten his head out of his own butt there would not have been an OT.

No, you need the QB to see where the throw should go and make the throw.

we keep having people say this. do we really want to or expect that josh allen does not play or gets replaced because he makes mistakes?

 

he's a top 10 talent on the nfl field. you have to coach to him, or find he coach who can coach to him.

 

i haven't given up on Dorsey yet because he successfully coached Cam Newton who was even more uncoachable - but that was at QB coach not OC.

 

McChump i was done on two years ago.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Roundybout said:

It’s in the coach to scheme for the QB. Joe D on WGR just made a great point about this. He’s not providing any structure for Allen at all. 

 

Joe DiBiase says so?

Well, then that settles it.

 

 

Tell me, was it Dorsey's fault that Josh turned down an easy 15 yard gain on the ground to throw instead a hail mary into triple coverage that ended up picked off?

 

[boyst]

11 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

apparently, you're having a hard time understanding my question.

 

if the plays are there to be made, but the qb chooses not to take them...how is that on the coaches? The coaches are there to give the play. It's on the player to execute the play.

 

the coach needs to understand his athletes, coach them up, rein them in, prop them up, kiss their ass, stroke their ego, burst their bubble, shake them loose, JUST ***** COACH THEM.

 

these coaches have not been able to - dabol did.

 

this argument is saying that we value mcchump and dorsey more than allen.

[BarleyNY]

Awhile back I heard an interview with a former GM. He was talking about going to the SB and how going in they thought they had it won. Their focus was on their QB having a spectacular day and being elevated among his peers. They took their eyes off the ball and it cost them a championship. Obviously they only realized what they did after the fact, not at the time.

 

I get the same feel here with Allen. It isn’t enough just to win, but he feels he has to ball out every game with big numbers and highlight reel plays. That pressing and extra pressure results in what we’ve seen. I do not think it’s the play calling or other players either. This is on him. The exception on the coaching side is that they have not held him accountable. For that McDermott and Dorsey are culpable. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

Awhile back I heard an interview with a former GM. He was talking about going to the SB and how going in they thought they had it won. Their focus was on their QB having a spectacular day and being elevated among his peers. They took their eyes off the ball and it cost them a championship. Obviously they only realized what they did after the fact, not at the time.

 

I get the same feel here with Allen. It isn’t enough just to win, but he feels he has to ball out every game with big numbers and highlight reel plays. That pressing and extra pressure results in what we’ve seen. I do not think it’s the play calling or other players either. This is on him. The exception on the coaching side is that they have not held him accountable. For that McDermott and Dorsey are culpable. 

 

The problem is:

 

Other than benching Allen, how do you hold him accountable?

 

What coach in the NFL is going to do that?

 

 

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Joe DiBiase says so?

Well, then that settles it.

 

 

Tell me, was it Dorsey's fault that Josh turned down an easy 15 yard gain on the ground to throw instead a hail mary into triple coverage that ended up picked off?

 

it was josh who made that throw but it was dorsey who allowed that playcall to go in when josh was playing poorly. it was mcchump on the side who didn't work with josh on what to do - maybe he was too busy clapping or studying Defense 101 against a Arena League QB?

 

think of this - in KC do you think Reid just goes and says 2 words to Mahomes after poor play? What about the jerk coach in Cinci after burrow? does any coach not approach and work on his QB when he comes off the field and plays poorly?

 

McD can't do this because he has to coach do something defense.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

 

We're going to have to disagree. Dorsey's game plan wasn't at the level of the Jets defense. 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

The problem is:

 

Other than benching Allen, how do you hold him accountable?

 

What coach in the NFL is going to do that?

 

 

it's not McChump.

 

what can a coach do besides bench him? grow a pair of balls and make sure the right calls are made that he won't play hero ball. surround him with talent and schemes that work. confront him and do things in the film room. 

 

and yes, if he is going to play that poorly, bench him. i would have last night after the 4th INT when it was clear we'd lose.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

it's not McChump.

 

what can a coach do besides bench him? grow a pair of balls and make sure the right calls are made that he won't play hero ball. surround him with talent and schemes that work. confront him and do things in the film room. 

 

and yes, if he is going to play that poorly, bench him. i would have last night after the 4th INT when it was clear we'd lose.

 

Josh is going to hero ball, regardless of the play structure. Period. It's who he is and anyone denying that at this point is living a lie.

 

Edit: I too thought he should have been benched after the fumble.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[Roundybout]

8 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Joe DiBiase says so?

Well, then that settles it.

 

 

Tell me, was it Dorsey's fault that Josh turned down an easy 15 yard gain on the ground to throw instead a hail mary into triple coverage that ended up picked off?

 

It’s a good point! 
 

A good coordinator schemes for his players. A bad one forces his round pegs into a square hole.

 

Look at Miami - McDaniels has designed a PERFECT offense that minimizes Tua’s flaws, because it’s designed for him. 
 

@boyst said it very well too. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Roundybout said:

It’s a good point! 
 

A good coordinator schemes for his players. A bad one forces his round pegs into a square hole.

 

Look at Miami - McDaniels has designed a PERFECT offense that minimizes Tua’s flaws, because it’s designed for him. 
 

@boyst said it very well too. 

 

Dorsey had the plan, and it was working. The short game was there all night. Problem is, Josh just CAN'T be patient enough to work that plan. He NEEDS to hit big passes for some reason

 

[BarleyNY]

8 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

The problem is:

 

Other than benching Allen, how do you hold him accountable?

 

What coach in the NFL is going to do that?

 

 

 

That’s the issue here. What we need is  a coach with the brass to ****ing bench him. One that gives him specific instructions and then sits him when he ignores them. Allen has to understand that he will hurt the team and himself by ignoring the coaches’ directives. The real issues are that they didn’t nip it in the bud a year ago and that the OC is his bro and second fiddle to him.  Daboll would not have stood for it, but what’s Dorsey going to do? So now it’s on McDermott to handle it, but he won’t. He doesn’t have the brass for it and he’s off with his head in the sand coordinating the defense anyway. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, colin said:

As soon as we didn't get some 3rd downs (and we were close mind you) doing dink and dunk Josh decided he was just gonna play hero ball.  3 of the 4 turnovers were horrible decisions while not under duress, and he walked into pressure or left clean pockets other times.

 

Dorsey has to figure out how to get the I working best, and he's no where near that yet, but Allen just not throwing those three horrible decision throws means we win walking away

I’d say two were horrible decisions…I’m alright with the bomb on 3rd and 8 that went down as a good punt, the jets were honestly kind of stupid for intercepting that.  The ball to Davis was a fine read he just didn’t make a great throw and Davis ran an absolute garbage route which allowed the safety to jump it from very far away 

[Big Blitz]

Ffs

[nedboy7]

I saw a ***** QB. Real ***** for brains.  Blame the coach all you want. 

[Solomon Grundy]

47 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

I don't think he can. He is what he is.

 

Daboll had him in check!! 

[Roundybout]

Six of 11 drives began with a negative play. Of these, two were bad Cook draw plays and two were penalties. The other was a badly executed RPO and the fumbled snap.

 

it’s coaching. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Roundybout

[LarryMadman]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

Welp, too many times i've seen these Bills coaches outcoached and outcoached bad, that said Josh certainly needs to be way way better. I've said it since 13 seconds that the coaching staff is holding this team back.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

Daboll had him in check!! 

i think that's a bit of rose-colored glasses speaking there. There were MANY games under daboll where Josh went off the reservation like he did last night.

 

It is who he is.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

37 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yeah, because Daboll had his team so well prepared Sunday night.

His team is devoid of talent in many areas

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I saw a ***** QB. Real ***** for brains.  Blame the coach all you want. 

ready… 

 

We used to see a great one. 
 

the longer he’s been with Dorsey the less we see that. 
 

think there’s possibly any correlation to how he’s being coached?

[Big Blitz]

Still no RB

 

Still no running game.  
 

An OC that can’t call a running game.  

 

Gabe Davis still a ghost.  
 

Still no slot guy - I guess it’s Kincaid.  
 

Still nothing under center or use of play action either there or with RPO

 

 

 

When everything looks harder after YEARS of it not with a different OC - it’s the f***ing coaching.  It’s the top down.  
 

And, if it’s Allen - it’s the coaching not getting the most out of him.  
 

Dorsey isn’t him.   

[DC Greg]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

Yes he played like a total head case last night, but I do believe that’s also a product of him being overcoached to do things that don’t come naturally to him. He’s shown how talented he is. I don’t have to explain to a bills fan how incredible he has proven he can be. And if the offensive coaches aren’t getting that out of him, they need to try someone else. Maybe it’s not all their fault, but you have to try someone who can work with the superstar talent you have at QB. Whatever Dorsey is doing with him is not clicking.

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

His team is devoid of talent in many areas

This board wanted OBD crucified for letting Hodgins go. You mean he ISNT the second coming of Randy Moss?

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

 

Big question - what's the solution?

[Solomon Grundy]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

i think that's a bit of rose-colored glasses speaking there. There were MANY games under daboll where Josh went off the reservation like he did last night.

 

It is who he is.

 

When he did stupid things under Daboll, Daboll would check Josh on it. Rather it was through the headset or down on the field. I remember seeing Daboll giving Josh a tongue lashing many a time

[jaybills]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

Yes, yes, yes on everything you said! 

[Shortchaz]

If josh can’t figure out how to win in games, especially games like that one, where his brute force arm strength isn’t the answer, he’s going to follow the cam newton career arc. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Big question - what's the solution?

 

If I knew that, I'd be running the franchise.

 

Honestly, thought Josh should have been benched last night.

 

He was CLEARLY off the rails.

 

1 minute ago, Shortchaz said:

If josh can’t figure out how to win in games, especially games like that one, where his brute force arm strength isn’t the answer, he’s going to follow the cam newton career arc. 

 

YES.

 

Exactly.

 

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

If I knew that, I'd be running the franchise.

 

Honestly, thought Josh should have been benched last night.

 

He was CLEARLY off the rails.

 

 

I said after the game if the same thing happens against the Raiders, then Kyle Allen needs to come in for a series of two. See if extreme measures can work. Trouble is, if Kyle has a nightmare, it just re-enforces Josh as the best option, which we know is the case any way.

 

Something needs to give, and it's up to the coaches to make the right choice. Does he need an arm round the shoulder? A boot up the backside? A good cop/bad cop routine? If they don't get it right then Miami will have no competition in the AFCE.

[colin]

14 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’d say two were horrible decisions…I’m alright with the bomb on 3rd and 8 that went down as a good punt, the jets were honestly kind of stupid for intercepting that.  The ball to Davis was a fine read he just didn’t make a great throw and Davis ran an absolute garbage route which allowed the safety to jump it from very far away 

 

was that bomb the first one?  if so, i disagree, because he was able to trot for a 1st and more.  he showed no awareness.

[Solomon Grundy]

15 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’d say two were horrible decisions…I’m alright with the bomb on 3rd and 8 that went down as a good punt, the jets were honestly kind of stupid for intercepting that.  The ball to Davis was a fine read he just didn’t make a great throw and Davis ran an absolute garbage route which allowed the safety to jump it from very far away 

Davis is not a good route runner at all

[Mynamemike]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Did Allen call a draw play on 2nd and 15 in OT?

Josh’s boneheaded plays put us in in overtime in the first place.  Luckily he didn’t fumble twice on that play as well. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, colin said:

 

was that bomb the first one?  if so, i disagree, because he was able to trot for a 1st and more.  he showed no awareness.

I mean that’s hard to say…the jets entire shtick last night was baiting josh into running lanes that looked available then they collapsed extremely quickly 

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

I said after the game if the same thing happens against the Raiders, then Kyle Allen needs to come in for a series of two. See if extreme measures can work. Trouble is, if Kyle has a nightmare, it just re-enforces Josh as the best option, which we know is the case any way.

 

Something needs to give, and it's up to the coaches to make the right choice. Does he need an arm round the shoulder? A boot up the backside? A good cop/bad cop routine? If they don't get it right then Miami will have no competition in the AFCE.

Are we seriously entertaining Kyle Allen not being terrible? Lol. Criticize josh all you want but there is no way Kyle Allen with no running game is going to have any amount of success 

[LarryMadman]

I think Josh tries to do too much because the play design and coaching are lacking. He thinks he can make up for it with his talent and he can't then he gets frustrated and then makes bad decisions and it snowballs from there.