Beane concerned with Kyle Allen?

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Don't worry, maybe he was just referring to Josh Allen.

Probably Allen Schwartz, the 19 year old assistant to the Stabuck’s runner for the front office.  The boss needs his coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[machine gun kelly]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed with this but there is 0 chance Rivers comes back to ride the bench. Of course, he has 100 kids and might want to get away. 
 

ryan is interesting. He seemed like he wanted to keep playing but he was so bad last year. Still, he would be a big upgrade to what we have.

Biscuit, sorry maybe I was ambiguous.  Work him out quietly, and if Allen goes down, we know he’s interested, and ark is fresh, so we activate him at that point.  Not riding a bench.

 
Sorry about that.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I care because I know that some injuries won’t cause a player to miss significant time.  
 

our QB puts himself in harms way more than most.  I don’t see why we wouldn’t want a more capable backup

If Josh goes down we’re done. Josh isn’t going to sit with some minor injuries. So if he’s out it’s likely months. We’re done.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If Josh goes down we’re done. Josh isn’t going to sit with some minor injuries. So if he’s out it’s likely months. We’re done.

 

There are injuries that won't keep you out long but that mean you can't play. 

 

The whole "backup QBs don't matter" thing is so tiresome. Of course it matters. 

[LabattBlue]

Doesn’t have “it”?  What does that mean?  Can’t be a starter full time?  Can’t fill in for a few games if Josh gets hurt?  Can’t be a backup even if never stepping on the field?

 

None of these doubts could have been discovered when he was playing in the NFL?

Edited August 28, 2023 by LabattBlue

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are injuries that won't keep you out long but that mean you can't play. 

 

The whole "backup QBs don't matter" thing is so tiresome. Of course it matters. 

It actually doesn't matter for season ending injuries on a team like Buffalo. It matters for SF, which isn't so dependent on QB1. For a four-week separated shoulder or MCL sprain, it absolutely matters. But if Allen tears his ACL in week three, then the best thing that could happen would be for the Bills to Bengalize the season and get next year's version of Chase (Harrison). The entire offense revolves around Allen, just like Indy's offense revolved around Payton.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If Josh goes down we’re done. Josh isn’t going to sit with some minor injuries. So if he’s out it’s likely months. We’re done.

Some injuries may require him to miss a handful of games.  You can pretend to know that that’s not possible…. That he’ll just play through every injury that isn’t season ending…. But it’s not true.  It happened his rookie year and can happen any year.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

It actually doesn't matter for season ending injuries on a team like Buffalo. It matters for SF, which isn't so dependent on QB1. For a four-week separated shoulder or MCL sprain, it absolutely matters. But if Allen tears his ACL in week three, then the best thing that could happen would be for the Bills to Bengalize the season and get next year's version of Chase (Harrison). The entire offense revolves around Allen, just like Indy's offense revolved around Payton.

 

Nobody is disputing if Allen goes down for the season we are done. But what if he breaks a finger on his throwing hand? That is a "you can't just play with it you are going to miss at least 2 or 3 games" you want a guy who can get you through.

[DCofNC]

24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Just reading this thread.  I think you're right.  I was stunned that they were looking at Lance; he just doesn't seem like a fit, although I suppose he's sort of like the Trubisky case.  But the fact that they were looking is what is telling.  

 

Still, I'd think that they don't want to give up on Kyle as the long-term backup.  He has the basic skills, and as has been said, Keenum didn't jump right in and pick it all up at once, either.  

 

We'll know in a day or two.  

I have a feeling we will be trading for one of the Texans back ups, to make sure we get that 3rd round comp choice.  Mills makes a lot of sense as he feels he should be able to compete against their rookie, wasn’t allowed to and probably is still pissed.  Keenan can’t be cut or they let a 3rd round pick walk away for nothing.   
 

Lance was worth a flier for a developmental project, he is basically what Allen was when he walked in, super raw athlete, all the tools, needs refinement.  McClappy probably thinks he is the reason Josh turned great, so he could do it again.   Not worth paying though.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody is disputing if Allen goes down for the season we are done. But what if he breaks a finger on his throwing hand? That is a "you can't just play with it you are going to miss at least 2 or 3 games" you want a guy who can get you through.

And that's exactly what I said! I agree with you. Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch, pretty much, unless the Bills get lucky with ST plays and defensive TDs.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Some injuries may require him to miss a handful of games.  You can pretend to know that that’s not possible…. That he’ll just play through every injury that isn’t season ending…. But it’s not true.  It happened his rookie year and can happen any year.  

Rather invest in better start OL and depth OL then pay a good backup QB. 

[The Frankish Reich]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

And that's exactly what I said! I agree with you. Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch, pretty much, unless the Bills get lucky with ST plays and defensive TDs.

Kyle Allen isn't totally incompetent. You'd hope to go 2-1, might go 1-2. But the reason he has a job is because you really want to avoid bringing in the total replacement level guy who is likely to go 0-3.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Ooops!

I wish they’d make a move.  I’ll take PJ Walker over these guys.  Hell, I’d take a chad Kelly over these bums 

The Chad Kelly hate is real on this forum!! He may have personal issues, but the guy can play football. Maybe he's exorcised his personal demons🤷

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It doesn’t have to be that way though. Obviously,  you can’t fully replace Allen but look at the 49ers last year. Or the Eagles winning a SB. jacoby Briskett was a statistically top 10 qb when he played last year. Bridgewater was out there. 
 

Barkley is one of the worst modern qbs of all time. Allen is just a JAg and there’s a reason he doesn’t last more than a year on any team. 
 

its bs to the rest of this roster to just say if Allen gets hurt, seasons over. Because if doesn’t have to be.

I would have loved if they tried this.  He would have been one of the top backups in the league.  But Fitz has a really cushy gig. It’s gotta be tough to leave that. 

the problem is how our team and offense is built. It’s not like we are the Niners, where they can plug in a semi-competent scrub, since their offense is entirely run-based with playaction. 
 

I just don’t think it is worth fretting over backup QB’s. Outside of a few, they are all going to be in the same boat. For us to win some games with a backup, we would have to win with defense and a strong run game. 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Rather invest in better start OL and depth OL then pay a good backup QB. 

You’ve moved the goalposts of our conversation while putting words in my mouth.  I’m not talking about paying a backup QB anymore than Kyle Allen.  

 

You asked who cares about the backup QB and are operating under the assumption that if Allen gets hurt, the season is over.  It’s a very flawed way of thinking.  I would hope that our GM doesn’t share the same shortsighted view.  
 

I didn’t say we had to pay a good backup.  I think there are other minimum salary QBs that can help us win games better than Kyle Allen can.  I think that just about any mobile QB would give us a better chance to win than Kyle Allen.  Maybe I’m being harsh, but I think he’s terrible
 

[krf139]

Was he talking about Josh or Kyle?

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

EVERY game is going to matter this year.  If another backup could win ONE game that Kyle Allen couldn’t, it could save the entire season.   
 

I think there’s a better chance of Kyle Allen going 0-3 than winning a game. we saw how he looked playing with many starters vs the vaunted Colt defense

[Don Otreply]

Imo, Beane very likely never said this to the guy on the record, and by chance he did off the record mention this, I suspect the guy broke trust with Beane by saying on air.  Beane has never openly demeaned any of his rostered players, he either cut or traded players that haven’t made the measure for whatever reason, Beane doesn’t trash his guys publicly. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

Agreed.

A while back I took a look at how teams do when they have to bring in the classic "emergency QB." The guy signed off the street who has a week to learn the offense. We've seen a few of those here: Derek Anderson (horrid, but on a horrid offense), Thad Lewis (better than expected) come to mind. Overall, even these emergency/almost no preparation time guys actually win about a third of the time. My conclusions were:

- there's a lot of randomness in the NFL. Any given Sunday and all that. 

- we tend to overrate the value of a backup QB. There's a huge chasm between Josh Allen and Kyle Allen. Not much of a gap between Kyle Allen and another journeyman, Jordan Allen, who came into Niners camp this year as QB #4 - basically freely available talent. (I guess he'll now be their #3 with Lance traded).

 

A few teams every year are lucky enough (or stupid enough to commit serious money to a backup QB? It's a good question) to have an unusually good backup. Mostly you are looking at the revolving door of Kyle Allens and Jordan Allens. And if you look closely at results over the course of a game or three, you won't find any significant difference between the guys you pay a little more (Kyle) vs. a little less (Jordan)

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think there are other minimum salary QBs that can help us win games better than Kyle Allen can.

Yep. My point, but you said it with a lot fewer words!