Mike Vick at Bills practice and the nfl script release

[BigDingus]

1 hour ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

John 8:7

King James Version

"...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone...."

 

A few things here:

 

- In this "thread" I'm reading and seeing a lot of vitriol against Mike Vick. Based on the Biblical quote I just copied and pasted, I'm left to assume we have a lot of perfect / sinless contributors here at TBD.  I don't think so.

 

- Are those of you with a continuing and everlasting grievance with Mike Vick just as disgusted when your local schools are underperforming? Just as infuriated with human / child sex trafficking? Just as angry when one of our US service members almost literally sacrificed in a foreign land for no good reason?  Or just "virtue signaling" at every opportunity given with an unhealthy, fanatical desire to attack others. 

 

I say, the courts have done their jobs, Mike Vick served his sentence, he's still relatively young and has a lot left to offer.  He's got a lot to be embarrassed about and he could easily hide behind his money and go away.  Instead, he continually seeks self improvement, works to contribute in constructive ways, all while surely knowing the hypocrites are out to get him.  For that, I admire him!  I repeat, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone."

 

What about people atheists or people who simply aren't Christians?

 

You don't need religion to tell you people can change & learn from expereinces (both good & bad). Similarly, people can accept he's changed & still not like or forgive him if they wish. What he did was pretty messed up, so it's understandable that his reputation may be forever unsalvagable to some.

 

I hate what he did, but I also accept that he likely understands how disgusting what he did was... If I met him today, I would judge him based on who he is now. Would I be saying that if he killed someone? Probably not. But that goes back to the part where I said some people may never accept or forgive regardless of anything else.

[BillsNutHawaii]

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

This is stupid. He tortured and killed dogs and went to jail for it.

 

People can dislike him if they want. That does not mean they are casting stones. Jesus was not telling everyone to excuse the woman's actions. In fact, he did not excuse them either. He literally told her to stop sinning. He just didn't want her stoned to death because of them.

 

Similarly, none of us are calling for Michael Vick to be dragged out into the streets and stoned to death. But we sure do not need to excuse or forget his horrible misdeeds. His actions will follow him forever.

Again, tell us how perfect you have lived.  Every time I ask, its "crickets."

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Again, tell us how perfect you have lived.  Every time I ask, its "crickets."

 

Our problem just might be the vastness of the spectrum. There is a lot of space between “perfect” and what Vick was up to. 

 

As much as I abhor his behavior, I’m able to hope he can find a positive and productive post-football life. I’d like to acknowledge where we are, and then look forward. 

[BillsNutHawaii]

7 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

What about people atheists or people who simply aren't Christians?

 

You don't need religion to tell you people can change & learn from expereinces (both good & bad). Similarly, people can accept he's changed & still not like or forgive him if they wish. What he did was pretty messed up, so it's understandable that his reputation may be forever unsalvagable to some.

 

I hate what he did, but I also accept that he likely understands how disgusting what he did was... If I met him today, I would judge him based on who he is now. Would I be saying that if he killed someone? Probably not. But that goes back to the part where I said some people may never accept or forgive regardless of anything else.

 

9 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

What about people atheists or people who simply aren't Christians?

 

You don't need religion to tell you people can change & learn from expereinces (both good & bad). Similarly, people can accept he's changed & still not like or forgive him if they wish. What he did was pretty messed up, so it's understandable that his reputation may be forever unsalvagable to some.

 

I hate what he did, but I also accept that he likely understands how disgusting what he did was... If I met him today, I would judge him based on who he is now. Would I be saying that if he killed someone? Probably not. But that goes back to the part where I said some people may never accept or forgive regardless of anything else.

I'm targeting the hypocrisy.  Calling Mike Vick evil when every single person here knows dam well they have "screwed-up" really bad.  If you haven't, then your either just a child (Not enough time to have yet made mistakes), a Saint - doubtful, or just a liar and not admitting it.  Hypocrisy - That's the point of the "Stone Throwing" story and not trying to sell religion, forgiveness, to forget what occurred, etc.  

 

[Simon]

10 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

I'm targeting the hypocrisy.

 

There's no hypocrisy; it's just another nonsense comparison you're throwing out. Again.

 

Nobody here as drowned, electrocuted or lynched any animals for fun. You're trying to compare recreational torture and murder to shoplifting, getting drunk, cheating at cards, lying, etc.

Just stop......

[BillsNutHawaii]

I'm still wondering, if I'm so off-base here with my take on Mike Vick's visit to the Bills, (Summary - I think it could be a good thing), then why did the Bills / Coach McD invite him?  Why was the team welcoming him with open arms (See the hugs in the photos)?  Seems like I'm with the team (Bills) on this one, and the rest of the board is on the other side of the fence.  Interesting.  I might not be so stupid after all. 

[BillsNutHawaii]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

There's no hypocrisy; it's just another nonsense comparison you're throwing out. Again.

 

Nobody here as drowned, electrocuted or lynched any animals for fun. You're trying to compare recreational torture and murder to shoplifting, getting drunk, cheating, lying, etc.

Just stop......

"Nobody here as drowned, electrocuted or lynched any animals for fun" or worse ... not that you know of...

Just now, BillsNutHawaii said:

"Nobody here as drowned, electrocuted or lynched any animals for fun" or worse ... not that you know of...

Again, if Im so lost, explain why the team and I are in agreement and your viewpoint differs..... 

[Simon]

12 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

"Nobody here as drowned, electrocuted or lynched any animals for fun" or worse ... not that you know of...

Again, if Im so lost, explain why the team and I are in agreement and your viewpoint differs..... 

 

I'm not talking about the team.

I'm talking about the ridiculous parallels you're trying to draw in your ongoing crusade against common sense.

[BillsNutHawaii]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I'm not talking about the team.

I'm talking about the ridiculous parallels you're trying to draw in your ongoing crusade against common sense.

I am talking about the team, (That's how this whole thread started - see page 1).  Simon, you must be one of the many "sinless" around here and that's why your challenged to understand me - and vice versa.

[Blackbeard]

41 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Again, tell us how perfect you have lived.  Every time I ask, it’s "crickets."

More diversion. 
 

 

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Simon, you must be one of the many "sinless" around here and that's why your challenged to understand me - and vice versa.

 

This senseless crusade is so far beyond ridiculous that I am on the verge of asking you to remove yourself from this thread.

[BillsNutHawaii]

Just now, Blackbeard said:

More diversion. 
 

 

Hey, I've got the whole Buffalo Bills organization, (A lot of hard working, intelligent / brilliant people there) in alignment with my point of view on Mike Vick's visit....and that's a good thing. 

Just now, Simon said:

 

This senseless crusade is so far beyond ridiculous that I am on the verge of asking you to remove yourself from this thread.

No crusade here, I'm just responding to the statements made.  If you want compulsory agreement with your points of view - fine.

[Blackbeard]

1 minute ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Hey, I've got the whole Buffalo Bills organization, (A lot of hard working, intelligent / brilliant people there) in alignment with my point of view on Mike Vick's visit....and that's a good thing. 

More diversion. 
 

 

[BillsNutHawaii]

1 minute ago, Blackbeard said:

More diversion. 
 

 

More facts....see page 1 of this thread, the invite, the hugs, the welcome = facts.

Edited August 26, 2023 by BillsNutHawaii
added info.

[Blackbeard]

Just now, BillsNutHawaii said:

More facts....

We’re not taking facts.  We’re talking opinion. 
 

do you generally get a kick out of being a contrarian and purposely trying to piss people off?  Seriously. Answer that.  

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

No crusade here, I'm just responding to the statements made.  If you want compulsory agreement with your points of view - fine.

 

I don't give a flying fig at a rolling doughnut whether you agree or not.

I care that you're repeatedly annoying a bunch of good people by taking over this thread and driving it into a field of foolishness, which is pretty much the definition of crusading.

[BillsNutHawaii]

Big news!  I changed my mind - can you believe it.  Yes, we should obliterate Mike Vick, we (except me) are sinless.  All of you educated me today, happy now?

[BillsNutHawaii]

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't give a flying fig at a rolling doughnut whether you agree or not.

I care that you're repeatedly annoying a bunch of good people by taking over this thread and driving it into a field of foolishness, which is pretty much the definition of crusading.

Simon, I insist you're reading me all wrong, (I'm a soft hearted person - maybe too much - and that's because of my experiences, not to annoy).  Its my fault for not being more clear in my messaging.  Will do all I can to be better, write more clearly or not contribute.

[Buffalo716]

Rather have Mike Vick visit then OJ Simpson 😵

Edited August 26, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Bob Jones]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Rather have Mike Vick visit then OJ Simpson 😵

Agree. Bringing in the Brentwood Butcher would not be good! 😉

[AuntieEm]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

This is stupid. He tortured and killed dogs and went to jail for it.

 

People can dislike him if they want. That does not mean they are casting stones. Jesus was not telling everyone to excuse the woman's actions. In fact, he did not excuse them either. He literally told her to stop sinning. He just didn't want her stoned to death because of them.

 

Similarly, none of us are calling for Michael Vick to be dragged out into the streets and stoned to death. But we sure do not need to excuse or forget his horrible misdeeds. His actions will follow him forever.

 

 I am not excusing anything I detest what he was involved in and am happy he got caught and they ended his hobby.  I also am aware that anyone that can hurt any innocent animal for no good reason is very likely a borderline psychopath as well.  He did get caught and got sentenced to whatever the laws allowed.  He served the time and I'd expect he didn't have a wonderful time in prison, but even I can't really speak to that as he may save had alot of fans among the guards and inmates and that could make his time served a joke much like somebof those country club detention centers they make white collar criminals serve their community service at.   I just know that currently he is no longer engaged in such activity  and he could have a legitimate change of heart I have no way to know as I do not have any contact with him.  

 

I am surprised as Jessica's husband and I assume JPeg herself are animal activists.  

 

 

I won't suddenly hope they cut Poyer or Hyde because they greeted Vick in the video.  But if any dog starts growling at Vick for no apparent reason then I'll take that as a sign that Vick is a psychopath and I'd steer clear of him.

Edited August 26, 2023 by AuntieEm

[muppy]

4 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

If I'm so ill informed, so pathetic, so confused, (As clearly the majority of the contributors to this thread think so), then why did Coach Sean McDermott (By all accounts a brilliant guy) feel its a good idea to bring in Mike Vick to talk with the team?  I'm sticking with our coach on this one, and that's good company to be in.

 

swerving back to the OP I think he hopefully is sharing a redemption story and as Christians the folks at 1 Bills Drive are open to it. And a sincere listening from the heart but also using their intellect  person will determine michael vicks' sincerity. If he indeed has a message of hope and substance let it be heard. 

 

So The Message is Key to this. And has anyone a link to what he had to say? I will google.

 

EDIT: nothing

Edited August 26, 2023 by muppy

[Dr.Sack]

Good to see Vick at practice. Every player should know his story and why they should avoid making the same poor decisions. 

[Doc Brown]

13 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Good to see Vick at practice. Every player should know his story and why they should avoid making the same poor decisions. 

Spot on.  Brutally executing dogs in a dogfighting ring is a common mistake that far too many young people make.

[ProcessTruster]

what an amazing player he was

[AuntieEm]

39 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Spot on.  Brutally executing dogs in a dogfighting ring is a common mistake that far too many young people make.

 

Don't know how he first got into doing the stuff he was doing with the dogs, but it maybe he just fell in with wrong crowd and that could be far too many young people making similar or worse mistakes. 

[MJS]

5 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Again, tell us how perfect you have lived.  Every time I ask, its "crickets."

I haven't lived perfectly, but I certainly have not tortured animals. That's why I'm not casting stones. But I can and will be critical of his deplorable, criminal behavior.

 

Certainly sounds like you are being pretty judgemental about people and their opinions. Perhaps you need to take your own advice.

[BillsNutHawaii]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

I haven't lived perfectly, but I certainly have not tortured animals. That's why I'm not casting stones. But I can and will be critical of his deplorable, criminal behavior.

 

Certainly sounds like you are being pretty judgemental about people and their opinions. Perhaps you need to take your own advice.

Not being judgmental, I was either clarifying my position or just responding to others. Who would have known that by promoting forgiveness, understanding, and personal growth, I would receive such incredible backlash….it’s just amazing and rather telling of the mental illness permeating in our country ….. absolutely fascinating.  
After some additional thought on my part, I wonder if the overwhelming sentiment on this board would have been different if this was not about dogs, but rather cats? Mice? Cows? Pigs? I suspect the responses would have been different.  Google / Check out what happens at the pig slaughter houses.  If one is consistent with their views about protecting animals (Pigs, dogs, etc.)  then they would find it all equally abhorrent.  This might just all be about a fanaticism for dogs and nothing else? Interesting. Am I right ? Anyway, I’m quite satisfied to know my favorite team (Bills management and players) are doing things with Mike Vick exactly the way I would.  My viewpoints here are in total alignment with my Bills!  

 

 

[BillsNutHawaii]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Spot on.  Brutally executing dogs in a dogfighting ring is a common mistake that far too many young people make.

Very unfortunately, dog fighting is extremely popular here in Hawaii.  I often see (A few times daily) the dogs PACKED in cages in the back of pickup trucks here, going down the highway, with no cover from the overwhelming heat.  I’ve reported it, but no one cares.  

[MJS]

36 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Not being judgmental, I was either clarifying my position or just responding to others. Who would have known that by promoting forgiveness, understanding, and personal growth, I would receive such incredible backlash….it’s just amazing and rather telling of the mental illness permeating in our country ….. absolutely fascinating.  
After some additional thought on my part, I wonder if the overwhelming sentiment on this board would have been different if this was not about dogs, but rather cats? Mice? Cows? Pigs? I suspect the responses would have been different.  Google / Check out what happens at the pig slaughter houses.  If one is consistent with their views about protecting animals (Pigs, dogs, etc.)  then they would find it all equally abhorrent.  This might just all be about a fanaticism for dogs and nothing else? Interesting. Am I right ? Anyway, I’m quite satisfied to know my favorite team (Bills management and players) are doing things with Mike Vick exactly the way I would.  My viewpoints here are in total alignment with my Bills!  

Actually, you aren't promoting forgiveness, you are calling people out and accusing them of not forgiving him. There's a big difference. You are standing on a soap box.

 

And it has nothing to do with dogs. It has everything to do with inhuman torture of dogs. It would be just as bad if he were torturing and killing mice or any other animal.

[BillsNutHawaii]

41 minutes ago, MJS said:

Actually, you aren't promoting forgiveness, you are calling people out and accusing them of not forgiving him. There's a big difference. You are standing on a soap box.

 

And it has nothing to do with dogs. It has everything to do with inhuman torture of dogs. It would be just as bad if he were torturing and killing mice or any other animal.

A few things:

- you come across as sincere, so that’s appreciated. some of the others, not so much.

- you’re consistent with your views on animals - that’s also appreciated. 
- no soap box here, but something about the way I’m communicating is clearly not resonating.  But I care about our country a lot and to see the rampant hate and anger in so many corners is very concerning to me.  This not normal, I travel a lot, lived in many other countries, and have never witnessed so much intense anger and  hate - on so many levels. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by BillsNutHawaii
Added content

[AuntieEm]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

Actually, you aren't promoting forgiveness, you are calling people out and accusing them of not forgiving him. There's a big difference. You are standing on a soap box.

 

And it has nothing to do with dogs. It has everything to do with inhuman torture of dogs. It would be just as bad if he were torturing and killing mice or any other animal.

 

I think BillsNutHawaii is just suggesting that people think about it a bit on how Vick may have learned from his mistakes.  I know a neighbor who is terrified of cats due to some incident as a child a cat attacked her and now at age 60+ she has zero tolerance for any cats and would happily see them as ll put down if she had anything to say about it.  I don't suddenly believe she is some psycho animal abuser just her terror is deep seated and I can see her satisfaction over a dead cat the same as I would feel catching and killing a shark or any animal I am terrified of.  I do not enjoy seafood so if I did go shark fishing it wouldn't be to secure any food from the shark so in essence I'd be no better than hunters that only care about the trophy to hang on their wall.  I tend to view hunting as cruel when it isn't to provide sustenance but only the thrill of the kill, same as if I fish for the shark.  I know that I'd be just as bad as Vick torturing a dog to its death for no reason if I just went out fishing for shark which I wouldn't be eating or killing in self defense.  I wouldn't view people going out shark fishing in the same way as someone killing a dog  but I also know that many black people were terrorized by dogs as young children just for being black.  So I can understand how someone might do something that I would consider evil but they are not doing it with evil intent so much as doing something out if fear or even just ignorance.  

 

 

 

 

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Very unfortunately, dog fighting is extremely popular here in Hawaii.  I often see (A few times daily) the dogs PACKED in cages in the back of pickup trucks here, going down the highway, with no cover from the overwhelming heat.  I’ve reported it, but no one cares.  

 

  Just curious if you know, is there any history of native Hawaiians being hunted by the colonizers for sport?  Just was thinking that as black slaves had often been hunted down by dogs there were alot of black people that didn't care for dogs as pets for that reason.  Even though many black people now have fogs as loved family pets there still pretty recent history where black people are terrorized by dogs trained to do so.   Just utube 60s civil rights clashes in the 60s to see video of GSD attacking blacks.  I surely saw those as a child as I was born in 60,  so I'm sure that made a impression on me enough to  understand why I've met some black people that totally hated dogs.  I can see how some people would even enjoy hurting them if they are otherwise terrified of them.  I know I'm terrified of sharks so  if someone goes out shark fishing just for pure sport I tend to not get outraged as much as I would if it were any cute or otherwise non threatening animals.

 

If the first  Europeans did hunt the natives that could certainly be a reason that dog fighting became popular there and then the damage desensitized any person to other life does its harm generating future psychopaths.  Much like domestic abuse snowballs until the cycle is broken.

Edited August 26, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Dr.Sack]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Spot on.  Brutally executing dogs in a dogfighting ring is a common mistake that far too many young people make.

You must have grown up in a bubble this is common practice in ghettos, barrios and Appalachia. 

[BillsNutHawaii]

8 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

  Just curious if you know, is there any history of native Hawaiians being hunted by the colonizers for sport?  Just was thinking that as black slaves had often been hunted down by dogs there were alot of black people that didn't care for dogs as pets for that reason.  Even though many black people now have fogs as loved family pets there still pretty recent history where black people are terrorized by dogs trained to do so.   Just utube 60s civil rights clashes in the 60s to see video of GSD attacking blacks.  I surely saw those as a child as I was born in 60,  so I'm sure that made a impression on me enough to  understand why I've met some black people that totally hated dogs.  I can see how some people would even enjoy hurting them if they are otherwise terrified of them.  I know I'm terrified of sharks so  if someone goes out shark fishing just for pure sport I tend to not get outraged as much as I would if it were any cute or otherwise non threatening animals.

 

If the first  Europeans did hunt the natives that could certainly be a reason that dog fighting became popular there and then the damage desensitized any person to other life does its harm generating future psychopaths.  Much like domestic abuse snowballs until the cycle is broken.

I’ve been in Hawaii 29 years now. That’s certainly doesn’t mean I know everything about the place, but I think I have a good pulse on the culture.  With that in mind, I’m not aware of any adversarial connection between the locals and animals/dogs. The first Europeans here in the islands have an excellent reputation, bringing missionaries who shared medical knowledge and alphabetizing the local language.  Much of the Hawaiian language is pronounced like the German language.  You’re spot on about the carry over of violence through the generations.  Thanks for sharing all your insight to this point, it’s much appreciated! 

[AuntieEm]

8 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

I’ve been in Hawaii 29 years now. That’s certainly doesn’t mean I know everything about the place, but I think I have a good pulse on the culture.  With that in mind, I’m not aware of any adversarial connection between the locals and animals/dogs. The first Europeans here in the islands have an excellent reputation, bringing missionaries who shared medical knowledge and alphabetizing the local language.  Much of the Hawaiian language is pronounced like the German language.  You’re spot on about the carry over of violence through the generations.  Thanks for sharing all your insight to this point, it’s much appreciated! 

 

Well I'm certainly glad the first Europeans that lot to Hawaii were the not of the Conquistador mindset of ' we are superior,  bow to our wisdom,  do as we say or pay the penalty...  now it has me curious how the Hawaiian natives took to a violent sport of dog fighting.  I'm not currentvon early Hawaiian cultures and how they usually dealt with strangers that they encountered.  Were there separate tribes across the islands that got into infighting amongst themselves.  Other natives in the new world had their share of violent cultures... Incas, Mayans and  Aztecs many had some violent tendencies so that may have led them to turn those impulses to dog fighting.  I'm just  very surprised it is still a rampant issue in Hawaii and do not understand how it hasn't been dealt with by legal means to end the practice.  

Edited August 27, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Ghost_002!]

Kind of shocked by how negative people are against Mike Vick. I would say. To each his own, but this doesn't have a negative reflection on the bills cause most people never condone his behavior but clearly understood he has been a changed man for over 20 years now.

 

And your coach, GM etc who are thought to be a good judge of character have no issue with bring In Mike Vick, so that should tell you a whole lot.

 

And kind of offended someone who doesn't know Mike Vick at all called him "ghetto",  really??