Josh Allen is the best weapon in the NFL and he’s not protected.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Come on man, talk about being unreasonable and whiney just to be whiney.  What did you think was gonna happen?  Did you expect Beane to trade for 5 picks in the first 2 rounds to rebuild every OL spot in one offseason?

 

We signed guys in FA and then drafted one of the best OL prospects in the draft who has looked the part so far as well.

 

These threads are dumb.  If you’re going to start one then at the very least post what SPECIFICALLY Beane could have done different this offseason.  
 

I mean he made the most moves on OL than any other position on the team this year. 

Maybe the problem isn’t that Beane doesn’t recognize that OL is a problem. It’s that he’s kinda been bad at fixing it.

[Alphadawg7]

31 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Maybe the problem isn’t that Beane doesn’t recognize that OL is a problem. It’s that he’s kinda been bad at fixing it.

 

If Beane didnt think OL was a problem then why did he make more moves at OL than any other position, including drafting one of the top OL prospects in the draft?  I mean this question doesn't even make sense.  

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If Beane didnt think OL was a problem then why did he make more moves at OL than any other position, including drafting one of the top OL prospects in the draft?  I mean this question doesn't even make sense.  

You got it backwards. Beane does know that OL is a problem. He just hasn’t done a great job fixing it.

[AuntieEm]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:00 PM, Special K said:

If Dawkins can get his act together before week 1, the OL will not be as bad as you think, with the understanding that Spencer Brown will be the weak link, especially in pass protection.

 

Think that the lack of offfensive line talent and the money a top OT can earn makes ìt easier for guys like Dawkins to keep their jobs even when they don't even appear to care enough to work on getting better.  Think about ìt. When the Bils finally get an upgrade and move on from Dawkins he likely can get a few 1 yr contracts with any team that is still looking for better OTs so unlike rbs who are a dime a dozen and can't find work easily.  At the very least Dawkins will draw vet min pay. Likely at very least 1m a year to sit on the bench as a backup swing tackle somewhere.   Hardly any incentive to work hard to keep his current job.  I just don't get any sense he even cares about football.  

Edited August 22, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Come on man, talk about being unreasonable and whiney just to be whiney.  What did you think was gonna happen?  Did you expect Beane to trade for 5 picks in the first 2 rounds to rebuild every OL spot in one offseason?

 

We signed guys in FA and then drafted one of the best OL prospects in the draft who has looked the part so far as well.

 

These threads are dumb.  If you’re going to start one then at the very least post what SPECIFICALLY Beane could have done different this offseason.  
 

I mean he made the most moves on OL than any other position on the team this year. 

Maybe select Dewand Jones in the 3rd Round when you have little to no depth at either OT position? 

 

I mean who'd of thought that a 6'8" 375 pound OT with 36+" arms from Ohio State graded the day before the draft at 88 overall would be any good in the NFL?

 

111 snaps so far in preseason, 0 sacks allowed. 

 

🤷‍♂️

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If Beane didnt think OL was a problem then why did he make more moves at OL than any other position, including drafting one of the top OL prospects in the draft?  I mean this question doesn't even make sense.  

Beane took the same approach as he has for years - low end FAs: Anderson, McGovern, Van Demark, brining back Quesenberry, and more mid-round picks: Torrence being the big splash, Broeker. 

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane took the same approach as he has for years - low end FAs: Anderson, McGovern, Van Demark, brining back Quesenberry, and more mid-round picks: Torrence being the big splash, Broeker. 

We have cap issues, low end FAs is a reality of that.  Your answer about taking Dewand Jones was a fair point and legit option, making a splash in FA with all the other holes on this team was not realistic.  

[AuntieEm]

41 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Maybe select Dewand Jones in the 3rd Round when you have little to no depth at either OT position? 

 

I mean who'd of thought that a 6'8" 375 pound OT with 36+" arms from Ohio State graded the day before the draft at 88 overall would be any good in the NFL?

 

111 snaps so far in preseason, 0 sacks allowed. 

 

🤷‍♂️

 

Yea he looks good but I doubt any of the preseason games he had to deal with gameplans so his 0 sacks in preseason action is not as if he was taking on Bruce Smith in his prime and in a regular season game.  

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Maybe select Dewand Jones in the 3rd Round when you have little to no depth at either OT position? 

 

I mean who'd of thought that a 6'8" 375 pound OT with 36+" arms from Ohio State graded the day before the draft at 88 overall would be any good in the NFL?

 

111 snaps so far in preseason, 0 sacks allowed. 

 

🤷‍♂️

Fair option, but he wasn’t graded as the 88th player or he would have gone earlier than 111.  Clearly teams scouting had a lower grade than internet graders did.  And no sacks in preseason doesn’t mean a ton as lots of guys look good in preseason against vanilla schemes and backups and guys who won’t make rosters.
 

So he may end up being very good, just saying it’s a bit early to play the hindsight game based on just preseason performance.  But, playing the hindsight game in terms of our needs and just being a rookie prospect on the OL is fair game.  
 

So thanks, this was certainly a viable option, especially if Dorian remains a backup to MIlano.  We are very thin at LB though with only MIlano a proven commodity who’s has some injuries himself.  So it’s not like LB wasn’t a need, so it still makes sense if they had a higher grade in Dorian to take him.  
 

We will see if it was a wide or poor decision of course.  So far, I think both look promising.  
 

For the record, I’m not a Brown fan and wanted a new RT myself and would have been good taking Dewand too, even though I didn’t think they would go after a RT based on the confidence they expressed in Brown before FA and Draft.  

[John from Riverside]

There have been resources and draft picks allocated to this position this year
 

To say that there was not an attempt to protect Josh Allen is wrong

[PatsFanNH]

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think some of the debacle vs the Steelers is just not giving the Steelers their due…that is a scary front 7 with tj watt in the lineup and their 1st string offense had already seen some action in the preseason the week prior. 
 

I can’t think of too many teams I’d want to see less than the Steelers for offensive linemen still getting used to playing with their teammates in their first preseason action.  There’s a few new pieces that are getting their feet wet.  

Of course we’ll never be able to tell, but I’d be curious how Allen and mahomes would perform if they swapped teams.  It’s impossible to not give mahomes the number 1 ranking with all the hardware he has but we have seen him falter when his offensive line isn’t protecting him well.  

 

josh gets the oline play pretty much every week that mahomes got against TB in the Super Bowl lol

 

 

 

 

Lol you do know in that SB he made some insane throws that his WR just dropped. 

[Tipster19]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Come on man, talk about being unreasonable and whiney just to be whiney.  What did you think was gonna happen?  Did you expect Beane to trade for 5 picks in the first 2 rounds to rebuild every OL spot in one offseason?

 

We signed guys in FA and then drafted one of the best OL prospects in the draft who has looked the part so far as well.

 

These threads are dumb.  If you’re going to start one then at the very least post what SPECIFICALLY Beane could have done different this offseason.  
 

I mean he made the most moves on OL than any other position on the team this year. 

Let me start off saying that this is a business and like any business its success is determined by results. At any time under Beane’s watch did the OL ever stand out as stellar, I think not. Ok, let’s lower the standards, during any season what’s the best OL he ever assembled? What would you rate it? Let’s just say that it’s not has been one of his strengths. 
 

Resources has been spent during these seasons so I “applaud” the effort. Of course there is just so many draft picks during a draft that can be dedicated to the position but there is other ways to obtain talent. If be it trading one of the assets to ensure the health of your star franchise QB then so be it. What were your thoughts and feelings going into this season of the OL? Me, I wasn’t confident in it and I shouldn’t be. Spencer Brown was viewed as this player that HAS to be his year, not by anything that he has done or proven but because we HOPED he would be able to handle the position. What about Dawkins? I sure do like the guy but I haven’t seen anything that has stood out about him since he had Covid. To make matters worse I thought that he had a terrible year last year and the second half of it was downright horrendous. 
 

I want better results out of this position group, that’s not unreasonable. I’ve bragged about this team in so many ways over so many times but I have NEVER been impressed by Beane’s abilities or results concerning the OT. 
 

When we needed a better WR Beane made it happen, while we need a better OL and I’m not seeing it happening.

[Airseven]

13 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Maybe select Dewand Jones in the 3rd Round when you have little to no depth at either OT position? 

 

I mean who'd of thought that a 6'8" 375 pound OT with 36+" arms from Ohio State graded the day before the draft at 88 overall would be any good in the NFL?

 

111 snaps so far in preseason, 0 sacks allowed. 

 

🤷‍♂️

Taking another undersized LB (who’s not even being considered to play the middle) instead of OT in the third round nicely crystallizes the issues with this regime.

[TheWeatherMan]

On 8/21/2023 at 7:55 PM, arcane said:

I ***** hate bills fans man

You hate bills fans so much you’re an active participant of a Buffalo Bills message board full of Buffalo Bills fans?  I hate large sums of money, sex with hot women and booze. 

[TheWeatherMan]

On 8/21/2023 at 7:53 PM, Tipster19 said:

Think about that. In its simplicity why is that? This has to be Beane’s biggest error/flaw and may just cost him his job. It’s very frustrating to just watch this underperforming OL and realize the results it’s going to bring. 

RT has been a weakness for the last 3-4 years.  Like others have alluded, the guard spots have (what it looks like to this point) been significantly upgraded. Maybe OBD believes in a healthy Brown next to an upgraded RG as allowed to the cluster F we had last year.  Question I have is can Brown stay healthy and if not is his backup a viable option?  Last year in Browns absence, Q-berry blew his assignment which resulted in Josh’s elbow injury.  Josh is the only player on this team that is not replaceable.  

[Franco_92]

5 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

You hate bills fans so much you’re an active participant of a Buffalo Bills message board full of Buffalo Bills fans?  I hate large sums of money, sex with hot women and booze. 

Correct, they have no idea how to handle having a successful football team and have made this board completely unbearable for the last 10 months. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Let me start off saying that this is a business and like any business its success is determined by results. At any time under Beane’s watch did the OL ever stand out as stellar, I think not. Ok, let’s lower the standards, during any season what’s the best OL he ever assembled? What would you rate it? Let’s just say that it’s not has been one of his strengths. 
 

Resources has been spent during these seasons so I “applaud” the effort. Of course there is just so many draft picks during a draft that can be dedicated to the position but there is other ways to obtain talent. If be it trading one of the assets to ensure the health of your star franchise QB then so be it. What were your thoughts and feelings going into this season of the OL? Me, I wasn’t confident in it and I shouldn’t be. Spencer Brown was viewed as this player that HAS to be his year, not by anything that he has done or proven but because we HOPED he would be able to handle the position. What about Dawkins? I sure do like the guy but I haven’t seen anything that has stood out about him since he had Covid. To make matters worse I thought that he had a terrible year last year and the second half of it was downright horrendous. 
 

I want better results out of this position group, that’s not unreasonable. I’ve bragged about this team in so many ways over so many times but I have NEVER been impressed by Beane’s abilities or results concerning the OT. 
 

When we needed a better WR Beane made it happen, while we need a better OL and I’m not seeing it happening.

Again, you avoid the question of what specifically should Beane have done this off-season given he spent the most resources on the OL including drafting what might be a future star player in O’Cyrus.

 

You can’t just say trade for a star player.  One has to be available.  We have to have something they want.  We have to afford them.  
 

So who were they supposed to trade for that was available, we wanted, could afford, and had what that team wanted back in trade?  If you can’t name those players, then your trade for a star player option doesn’t exist.  
 

And as far as Dion goes, you do realize he made his first pro bowl last year right?  This was despite how bad Saffold was next to him and the struggles of the rest of the OL.  So you’re being dramatic about Dion without any context to how he actually played last year which was not a lot different than his career rankings.

 

Biggest question mark is Brown, but staff also has confidence in him still after the injury issues last year are hopefully behind him.  They gave up too soon in Teller, so no surprise they are going to give Brown a chance to lock the spot down now that he is healthy.  

[BullBuchanan]

33 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

RT has been a weakness for the last 3-4 years.  Like others have alluded, the guard spots have (what it looks like to this point) been significantly upgraded. Maybe OBD believes in a healthy Brown next to an upgraded RG as allowed to the cluster F we had last year.  Question I have is can Brown stay healthy and if not is his backup a viable option?  Last year in Browns absence, Q-berry blew his assignment which resulted in Josh’s elbow injury.  Josh is the only player on this team that is not replaceable.  

Daryl Williams was considered a weakness? I remember him being quite decent.

[SCBills]

20 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane took the same approach as he has for years - low end FAs: Anderson, McGovern, Van Demark, brining back Quesenberry, and more mid-round picks: Torrence being the big splash, Broeker. 

 

McGovern isn't in the same category as those other guys.

 

I think the interior is pretty strong with Morse, a mid-tier FA with upside, RD2 pick and strong depth.  

 

Not drafting Dawand Jones was maddening on Draft Night, and even more-so now...

 

If Bills fans had their way, our IOL would be led by Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith, with Dawand Jones as RT competition.  No clue why the staff seems to take so long to reach the conclusions fanbase and media have years earlier.   We finally fix the IOL, only to be dependent upon a wild card in Spencer Brown with zero depth behind him.   

 

At some point Allen will get fed up.  Especially when he sees what the Bengals & Chiefs do for his peer elite QB's. 

[TheWeatherMan]

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Daryl Williams was considered a weakness? I remember him being quite decent.

He was great his first couple years.  I don’t remember if it was injury, age, or scheme changes, but he fell out of favor and was released 1 year after signing a 3 year 28M contract.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Daryl Williams was considered a weakness? I remember him being quite decent.

Yes, he was good for one year.

 

Then his surgically repaired knee flared back up and effectively he never played again. 

 

Sandwiched around that one year was Jordan Mills, Cody Ford (briefly), Ty Nsekhe and now Spencer Brown as starters, with Connor McDermott and David Quesenberry as depth players. 

 

I think it's fair to say the approach on the offensive line is cheap free agents and mid to low round picks. 

 

Allen has not had a good offensive line. 

[TheWeatherMan]

41 minutes ago, arcane said:

Correct, they have no idea how to handle having a successful football team and have made this board completely unbearable for the last 10 months. 

Wide Right, Music City Mírale, 18 year playoff drought, Houston playoff debacle, 13 seconds, and last years nuclear melt down after being the consensus pre season SB favorites will do that to a fan base.
 

Bills fans are the most passionate fans on the planet and they have been snake bit for the better part of 3 decades.  This is a venue for fans to vent about frustrations just as much as it is to rejoice the teams accomplishments.  

[Tipster19]

41 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Again, you avoid the question of what specifically should Beane have done this off-season given he spent the most resources on the OL including drafting what might be a future star player in O’Cyrus.

 

You can’t just say trade for a star player.  One has to be available.  We have to have something they want.  We have to afford them.  
 

So who were they supposed to trade for that was available, we wanted, could afford, and had what that team wanted back in trade?  If you can’t name those players, then your trade for a star player option doesn’t exist.  
 

And as far as Dion goes, you do realize he made his first pro bowl last year right?  This was despite how bad Saffold was next to him and the struggles of the rest of the OL.  So you’re being dramatic about Dion without any context to how he actually played last year which was not a lot different than his career rankings.

 

Biggest question mark is Brown, but staff also has confidence in him still after the injury issues last year are hopefully behind him.  They gave up too soon in Teller, so no surprise they are going to give Brown a chance to lock the spot down now that he is healthy.  

If given the resources that Beane is given I’d be able to answer your question(s) more accurately but I’m not so I can’t. I will say that everything has a value and I’d be more than willing to insure that my star franchise QB would be protected beyond a shadow of a doubt. Meaning I would pay whatever it took to make sure Josh was protected. It’s not what’s available, it’s about what you’re willing to pay to make it available. Spencer Brown has done nothing to make me feel, and I’m pretty confident that many others feel the same, that he’s the solution at RT, he can’t even stay on the field for any great length of time. As far as Dion goes you better hope it was because of Saffold because if not then the Bills really do have a big problem. 
 

Beane did great at the G positions, much deserved credit but he has underwhelmed us at the T position imo.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

McGovern isn't in the same category as those other guys.

 

I think the interior is pretty strong with Morse, a mid-tier FA with upside, RD2 pick and strong depth.  

 

Not drafting Dawand Jones was maddening on Draft Night, and even more-so now...

 

If Bills fans had their way, our IOL would be led by Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith, with Dawand Jones as RT competition.  No clue why the staff seems to take so long to reach the conclusions fanbase and media have years earlier.   We finally fix the IOL, only to be dependent upon a wild card in Spencer Brown with zero depth behind him.   

 

At some point Allen will get fed up.  Especially when he sees what the Bengals & Chiefs do for his peer elite QB's. 

Connor McGovern is okay. PFF has his 2022 overall at 52.2. For us, that's great. 

 

The analysts from the Cowboys described him as a finesse lineman who was serviceable, but is not going to be a people mover. 

 

Better than Vlad Ducasse, Quinton Spain, Rodger Saffold, hopefully because he's younger and not at the twilight of his career. But do I think he's going to be good? No. 

 

I think Morse is in decline. He was a fringe Top 10 center, I think he's somewhere around 20th now. Better than a 1/3 of the league or so, but again, he's okay. 

 

I do agree that O'Cyrus Torrence will probably be our best OL before this season ends because of his youth, power and pedigree coming from SEC competition. 

 

I think we should just be hoping Dawkins can hold onto what he's been. 

 

It's been Beane's approach to bandaid the line (with older free agents largely), with the exception of the Morse splash early on. Feliciano, Quesenberry, Bobby Hart, Saffold, Daryl Williams, David Edwards, these guys are all older veterans by the time we get them. Or we pick up these project players and scab them in: Greg Van Roten, Ryan Groy, Ike Boettger, Ryan Bates, Van Demark now being the primary swing tackle. 

 

I think this year is going to look like last year, you're dealing with chronic protection issues up front, it's going to be multiple times a game where you notice RT getting beat, Dawkins getting run around, McGovern and Morse getting pushed backwards with power DL. I think you're going to see the same struggle to move the pile on 3rd-1's as we've seen for years. 

 

Right or wrong, Beane's approach has been do enough to get by on the line, but nothing more than that. 

[In Summary]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:00 PM, Special K said:

If Dawkins can get his act together before week 1, the OL will not be as bad as you think, with the understanding that Spencer Brown will be the weak link, especially in pass protection.

Dawkins may have to play himself into shape. Not preferred, but that's his doing.