PFF Top 50 Players for 2023 - Josh Allen at 12, Diggs at 24

[Wizard]

Winning a Super Bowl takes care of these lists, and neither Allen or Diggs are egregiously ranked on this list  heading into this year. Allen falls between 2-4 on most QB lists, and last year, he probably played the 4th best season at QB. Talent-wise and responsibility for his team success he’s #1. No complaints on Allen’s ranking.

 

Diggs at #5 is reasonable. Most rationale fans would have him in the 3-7 range. The ranking of Cooper Kupp is only a surprise because of injury, otherwise, the year before he had an all-time level WR season.

 

I personally would put Diggs at #4, but no real argument with people voting Jefferson, Hill, Chase, Kupp, or someone like Davante Adams ahead of him.

 

Both are fairly ranked. Now, let’ see if we can get a Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, or O’Cyrus Torrence to join them in  the top 100 in the next couple of years.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Give Josh the #1 ranked OL like the Eagles and he's #2 behind Mahomes. And the turnovers disappear. 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

For me it always will come back to the situation they ended up in. If you take Burrow and put him in Buffalo for last year...how many games do they win? With a rookie OC and Diggs his only great target...I don't see 13 wins. Maybe 11...10?

 

Now put Allen in the Cincinnati offense. Offensive minded HC. Chase, Higgins, Boyd. Mixon with a run game. They (IMO) make the Super Bowl and win by 2 TDs. 

 

Now, Burrow has skill and is calm under pressure. But in no way shape or for can I see him even equal to Allen skill wise without the plush situation he landed in. 

The bottom line is qbs like Mahomes, Burrow, and Hurts all have a substantially better support system with offensive coaches, weapons and OL's better than the Bills. Josh has a mediocre OC, OL and after Diggs there's a big dropoff in weaponry. 

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

More passing attempts, completions, yards, and touchdowns.  Fewer interceptions and turnovers.  Made a Super Bowl and AFC Championship games in back to back years.

Have you put the Bills & Bengals Offenses side by side by an chance?  Name me one unit other then QB where the Bills are as good as Cincinnati?  I'll help you out:

 

WR:  Bengals much better then Bills

TE: Bengals a little better then Bills

RB:  Bengals much better then Bills

Oline:  Bengals much better then Bills

 

Also as GoBills808 points out. in TOTAL production:

 

Allen:  5045 yards & 42 TD's

Burrow:  4732 yards & 40 TD.s

 

 

11 hours ago, Airseven said:

Reaching a Super Bowl is a distinguishing factor in separating the upper echelon. If Hurts is ranked #9-10, I bet his Super Bowl appearance was the trump card over Allen.

WINNING a Super Bowl is a distinguishing factor; reaching a Super Bowl may or may not be one depending on the circumstances.

 

[Maynard]

Having Allen outside of the top 10 is just laughable. 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The bottom line is qbs like Mahomes, Burrow, and Hurts all have a substantially better support system with offensive coaches, weapons and OL's better than the Bills. Josh has a mediocre OC, OL and after Diggs there's a big dropoff in weaponry. 

This and I can’t stress this enough. We have our generational QB and we’ve failed him. Yes we’ve had good years but all because he lifts up the crap around him. It’s embarrassing that all we’ve given him is Diggs when good WRs are so damn easy to find. Our o line sucks, we haven’t properly invested in it. Josh runs for his life every single week. It’s crazy when you compare weapons that the other top guys have versus the crap josh is working with. 

[BananaB]

9 hours ago, arcane said:

In the playoffs, Joe Burrow has played 7 games, Allen has played 8. Burrow has 10 TDs (9 pass, 1 run), Allen has 20 TDs (17 pass, 2 run, 1 catch). Allen has 5 turnovers, Burrow has 4. 

Allen's team's defense has gifted him 7 turnovers, Burrow's has gifted him 13. 

 

In Burrow's super bowl run the offense had 45 drives by my count, and scored 7 touchdowns. In 2021 alone, Josh Allen led the Bills offense to 12 touchdowns in 16 drives

 

Burrow has led NO fourth quarter touchdown drives in 7 career postseason games

 

I don't really want to hear about how "Burrow has made it to a Super Bowl and Allen hasn't"

Allen probably has 2 super bowl wins if he was the Bengals QB for the 21 and 22 playoff runs.

 

Burrow is overrated because of where he was drafted. Media always wants their opinion to be right, doesn’t matter what they done for you lately. Fact is there isn’t a player in the league who is asked to do as much for their team as Josh. Kid is a beast and under different circumstances he’d be the clear cut #1 player in the league.  McD knows they hit gold so they have constantly neglected the O so he can beef up his D. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by BananaB

[Process]

It would be very difficult to make a worse list than this, lol

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

10 hours ago, Airseven said:

Fair. If there’s more separation between them then more factors in play. 
 

The fact Allen is still gaffe prone after five seasons is a limiting factor. You’d think by now his ball security, decision making, accuracy/touch, and footwork (and composure) would be a little more polished. He’s still a rollercoaster. Fun, no doubt. But still goes off the cliff.

Allen is gaffe prone?  In 2022?  I can think of only one game where you could say Allen was "gaffe prone" and that was against the Vikings.  Unless you're calling any mistake evidence of being gaffe prone?

 

As I recall, Mahomes threw 3 INT's against Denver last season and Burrow had that epic 5 TO game (including 4 INT's) against the Steelers in week 1.  I can't recall a single game where Allen threw 3 INT's or had 5 TO's.  Can you?

 

The idea that Allen is "gaffe prone" or a "TO machine" is fake news. Allen has a few more TO's then the other two elite QB's (Mahomes & Burrow) but the difference isn't that great and in Allen's case is spread out.  A more honest and accurate description is that Allen is forced to press more often then Burrow & Mahomes because he has less talent around him on offense then those two QB's have. This is a better explanation of the TO difference then one claiming Allen is "gaffe prone".

 

[Lost]

15 minutes ago, Process said:

It would be very difficult to make a worse list than this, lol

 

They didn't even rank Jalen Hurts...the disrespect.

[78thealltimegreat]

Josh Allen’s turnovers are magnified more than any other player in the sport. The guy has 177 career touchdowns and he just turned 27.  
Josh Allen had one turnover against the bengals a last gasp heavy ho…he did not give up 30 first downs to the Bengals that was the other side of the ball. 

[Big Turk]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:40 PM, Mikie2times said:

They have Rogers at 45 and Herbert at 35. That tells me this has nothing to do with positional value. Clearly Josh is easily a Top 10 and likely Top 5/3 with positional value. 
 

They have to have Burrow and Hurts ahead of him. Obviously Mahomes as well. I won’t argue Burrow, but I would disagree Hurts has shown enough. Let’s see him do it again this year. 

 

It's not even about what they have done. It's about what they are asked to do to make the offense be successful.

 

Is anyone going to argue that Burrow or Hurts is asked to do more than Allen? No. Or at least they shouldn't.

 

Both have skill positions that are loaded with 2 bonafide #1 WRs. Hurts has the best run game in the NFL along with one of the best OLs and two solid TEs also. Burrow has Mixon and Boyd to go with Chase and Higgins.

 

Both those groups are far and away better than anything the Bills had last year. Sure we had Diggs but who else could they count on game in and game out?

 

Nobody really. It was basically a random player who stepped up depending on the game. Sometimes Knox, sometimes Davis, sometimes Singletary, sometimes McKenzie...OK rarely McKenzie but he had a few moments.

 

The one constant was that Allen did it all for us. Basically carried a load much heavier than the others. A load anyone outside of Mahomes would have faltered under.

 

So yes...for me, I do have a problem with Allen not being the #2 QB. Neither Burrow or Hurts would be anywhere near what Allen would be if they were asked to do what he was.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Big Turk

[PBF81]

23 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol what has Burrow done to be ranked above Allen

 

Ooh Ooh, Mr. Kotter, ... hIs passing metrics over the past two seasons have been better than Allen's.  

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Ooh Ooh, Mr. Kotter, ... hIs passing metrics over the past two seasons have been better than Allen's.  

Interesting, which passing metrics are you referring to

[first_and_ten]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:14 PM, Lost said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff50-ranking-50-best-players-2023

 

Josh Allen is the second best QB ranked presumably behind Mahomes but still they don't see him as a top 10 player 🤯

 

 Diggs is the 5 best receiver ranked.  

 

PFF is a joke. Look at the 11 players ranked ahead of Allen. If a GM was starting a team I see only 2 players who might be picked ahead of Allen. Honestly, I don't know why I'm commenting on this at all. These "experts" ranking players is a joke. I don't usually pay any attention to any of it. 

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Interesting, which passing metrics are you referring to

 

The ones that Burrow is better than, the ones typically used to valuate QBs.  Just look at 'em, if they're better than Josh's, those are the ones I'm referring to.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The ones that Burrow is better than, the ones typically used to valuate QBs.  Just look at 'em, if they're better than Josh's, those are the ones I'm referring to.  

 

 

What about the other ones, those don't count or something I suppose 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What about the other ones, those don't count or something I suppose 

 

Are they more important?  

 

 

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What about the other ones, those don't count or something I suppose 

 

How do you measure QBs comparatively?  What stats do you use?  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Are they more important?  

 

 

 

How do you measure QBs comparatively?  What stats do you use?  

I prefer adjusted net yards per attempt as it is the QB metric most closely correlated w wins

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I prefer adjusted net yards per attempt as it is the QB metric most closely correlated w wins

 

So "wins" are predicated entirely upon the play of the QB insofar as ANY/A goes in your mind then?  

 

Question, is it possible for a QB to be good but the team not win as much as a team with a QB that isn't quite as good?  If so, then why?  

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, Process said:

It would be very difficult to make a worse list than this, lol

 

 

I laughed when I saw Fred Warner basically as good as Josh.

[GoBills808]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

So "wins" are predicated entirely upon the play of the QB insofar as ANY/A goes in your mind then?  

 

Question, is it possible for a QB to be good but the team not win as much as a team with a QB that isn't quite as good?  If so, then why?  

 

 

😂😂No. That's not what 'correlated' means

 

How about you tell me those passing metrics you like so much...I'm pretty sure I know which ones you're referring to lol

[PBF81]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

😂😂No. That's not what 'correlated' means

 

How about you tell me those passing metrics you like so much...I'm pretty sure I know which ones you're referring to lol

 

Let's end this.  It's going nowhere.  

 

 

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂No. That's not what 'correlated' means

 

How about you tell me those passing metrics you like so much...I'm pretty sure I know which ones you're referring to lol

 

I will say this, IMO Burrow is the better pure passer.  Allen's overall athletic abilities are better as are his non-passing contributions.  

 

I suppose which is better, and they're different by two whopping irrelevant spots in this survey, is up to the circumstances of the play of the teams that they'd be on.  Since Beane can't draft, we need Allen.  Put Allen on Cincy and IMO he's even better than he is now.  Not sure how good Burrow would be here, but guessing not as good as Allen.  

 

But in line with that, if I had to guess today whose career, which of those two that is, will last longer, I'd put all my money on Burrow in a NY second.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

Yes let's

 

It wasn't going to end well for you

[Mikie2times]

39 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Let's end this.  It's going nowhere.  

 

 

 

I will say this, IMO Burrow is the better pure passer.  Allen's overall athletic abilities are better as are his non-passing contributions.  

 

I suppose which is better, and they're different by two whopping irrelevant spots in this survey, is up to the circumstances of the play of the teams that they'd be on.  Since Beane can't draft, we need Allen.  Put Allen on Cincy and IMO he's even better than he is now.  Not sure how good Burrow would be here, but guessing not as good as Allen.  

 

But in line with that, if I had to guess today whose career, which of those two that is, will last longer, I'd put all my money on Burrow in a NY second.  

 

 

This pretty much. As much as they like to say Burrow couldn't do what Josh has done (I believe that to be the case). As much as they like to mock Burrow for his 1 TD and 200 yard playoff games. Josh is worse when he is bad. Far worse. Brett Favre only won one Super Bowl. If Josh is to become what many on this board want he needs to figure out a way to be more consistent. His lows can't be like the Bengals in 2022 or 2020 Chiefs playoff games. Otherwise his 2021 Patriots/Chiefs games really don't matter. In the playoffs it just takes one Favre like day and its done. Consistency is not Allen's friend and it never has been. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Mikie2times

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

This pretty much. As much as they like to say Burrow couldn't do what Josh has done (I believe that to be the case). As much as they like to mock Burrow for his 1 TD and 200 yard playoff games. Josh is worse when he is bad. Far worse. Brett Favre only sniffed one Super Bowl. If Josh is to become what many on this board want he needs to figure out a way to be more consistent. His lows can't be like the Bengals in 2022 or 2020 Chiefs playoff games. Otherwise his 2021 Patriots/Chiefs games really don't matter. In the playoffs it just takes one Favre like day and its done. Consistency is not Allen's friend and it never has been. 

 

Roger that on consistency.  It certainly hasn't been his friend.  

 

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

The ones that Burrow is better than, the ones typically used to valuate QBs.  Just look at 'em, if they're better than Josh's, those are the ones I'm referring to.  

 

 

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

19 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

This pretty much. As much as they like to say Burrow couldn't do what Josh has done (I believe that to be the case). As much as they like to mock Burrow for his 1 TD and 200 yard playoff games. Josh is worse when he is bad. Far worse. Brett Favre only won one Super Bowl. If Josh is to become what many on this board want he needs to figure out a way to be more consistent. His lows can't be like the Bengals in 2022 or 2020 Chiefs playoff games. Otherwise his 2021 Patriots/Chiefs games really don't matter. In the playoffs it just takes one Favre like day and its done. Consistency is not Allen's friend and it never has been. 

 

Really? Did you watch the Steeler game on opening night where Burrow threw 4 INTs and they lost in OT to a team they had no business losing to?

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

 

In Allen's 4 lowest rating playoff games we averaged 17.5 vs 23 for the Bengals. 

 

In Burrows top 3 games they averaged 24.3 while Allen averaged 36.6. The delta on the high vs low for the Bengals is -1.3 vs -19.1

 

How is this place so blinded by this? Allen is better against worse. Better when good. Far worse against better. Far worse when bad. 

 

The averages don't matter when you need to win 3-4 straight against the best. Who cares that you dropped 30+ on Miami and the Patriots?

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

 

Really? Did you watch the Steeler game on opening night where Burrow threw 4 INTs and they lost in OT to a team they had no business losing to?

I get that one confused with the Bills game in the opener the year before 

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

 

Since you brought it up, there too Burrow's been far more consistent.  

 

He's also been to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.  Josh hasn't been in five.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Since you brought it up, there too Burrow's been far more consistent.  

 

He's also been to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.  Josh hasn't been in five.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

If you asked a Chiefs fan who do they fear. You think any chance exists they’re saying us? 
 

Doesn’t that say enough?

[GoBills808]

Qbwinz and Chiefs fans opinions😂😂

 

The defense rests 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I laughed when I saw Fred Warner basically as good as Josh.

Warner is the best LB in football and it’s laughably not close. He’s so far ahead of his peers. On a path to a good jacket. Unless you’re just weighting QBs overall as higher then I don’t know why Warner being so high is funny. 

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Since you brought it up, there too Burrow's been far more consistent.  

 

He's also been to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.  Josh hasn't been in five.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

 

Yeah consistently not the reason they are winning. The defense and Special teams have carried his ass.

 

Allen had the highest QB Rating in NFL history prior to the Bengal game in the playoffs and has thrown 17 TD to 4 INTs versus Burrow who has 9 TDs to 7 INTs.

 

You can attempt to spin it however you want, Allen has been far better im the playoffs and it's not even close. Especially to people who actually watch the games and don't try to spin stats to their preconceived bias notions.

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I get that one confused with the Bills game in the opener the year before 

 

Yeah because Allen was back there punting too right?

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

If you asked a Chiefs fan who do they fear. You think any chance exists they’re saying us? 
 

Doesn’t that say enough?

 

Yeah, considering we should have beaten them 3 times in a row in Arrowhead if the D and special teams could have gotten their act together.

 

I actually think there is a pretty high chance.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Big Turk

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah consistently not the reason they are winning. The defense and Special teams have carried his ass.

 

Allen had the highest QB Rating in NFL history prior to the Bengal game in the playoffs and has thrown 17 TD to 4 INTs versus Burrow who has 9 TDs to 7 INTs.

 

You can attempt to spin it however you want, Allen has been far better im the playoffs and it's not even close. Especially to people who actually watch the games and don't try to spin stats to their preconceived bias notions.

 

Overreaction much?

 

We're talking two spots apart, for well over a thousand players.

 

If you're ardent position were so valid, others wouldn't have rated Burrow higher.

 

Who cares, it's an idiotic poll.  

 

 

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes let's

 

It wasn't going to end well for you

 

Take things personally do ya?

 

Easy chief! 

 

Life's too short ...

 

Besides, I thought the defense had rested.  🤔🧐😎

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PBF81

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

The averages don't matter when you need to win 3-4 straight against the best. Who cares that you dropped 30+ on Miami and the Patriots?

 

In fairness, I'm not going to blame Allen for most of our playoff losses, particularly in '21.  It's our defense that sucks rhino weenie on the playoffs.  

 

I put that on coaching.  

 

But agree that we're not likely to win three or four straight in the playoffs for that reason.  

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PBF81

[Since1981]

It’s hard to see almost any one WR OL DL ahead of Burrows/Allen.
 

i get that this isn’t a team MVP list. But if you were picking your team from pure scratch, Burrow/Allen over any WR OL DL

[CincyBillsFan]

59 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

In fairness, I'm not going to blame Allen for most of our playoff losses, particularly in '21.  It's our defense that sucks rhino weenie on the playoffs.  

 

Gee that's very fair of you not to blame Allen for the loss to KC in 2021!

 

[machine gun kelly]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:40 PM, Robert James said:

I'm guessing Mahomes, Burrow, and Jalen Hurts are all ranked ahead of him.  They've got to be in the top 50.

Allen is ahead of Hurtz.  Allen was 3rd with Burrow and Mahomes above.

[PBF81]

57 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Gee that's very fair of you not to blame Allen for the loss to KC in 2021!

 

Yeah, thanks!  

 

Allow me to ask, whom do you blame?  Because when I put the blame where it belongs, it seems to go over about as well as black person at a KKK rally.  

 

And how about Davis, who's outperformed Diggs in the playoffs?  What's your take there?   Yeah yeah, we all know, Davis wouldn't have done what he did if Diggs weren't on the team, so Diggs gets credit for Davis' catches.  Or something different?  

 

I'm curious whether you're consistent.  

 

Otherwise, since my comments were general in nature, how about the other three playoff losses, was Allen anything to blame for those, the '20 season KC loss, the '19 season Texans loss, or the Bengals loss this past season?   Or was he guilt-free there too?  

 

As to the topic of this thread, and in light of what you said, take away the two games of the '21 playoffs and to be more than fair, Allen's other 6 playoff games are mediocre tops!  

 

6 games otherwise, 8 TDs (1-1/4 TD/game for the math challenged), 6 TOs, and only one game with a rating better than average for those 6 games and an 85.0 rating for the 6 games aggregately.  He had more TDs in the two playoff games in '21 than he did in his other 6, demonstrating massive inconsistencey.  That's poor and for reference purposes, this past season would have ranked 26th in the league and in Derek Carr, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, and Russell Wilson category.  

 

Just sayin' 

 

And I'm one of Allen's biggest apologists and defenders.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PBF81