2023 Buffalo Bills from a Patriots fan perspective

[PBF81]

39 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

True and I have no idea because the offense would be constructed differently.  McDermott did make the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor though which is about the equivalent of qualifying for the Daytona 500 with a Prius. 

 

Point taken, but that's being a bit dramatic.  

 

We won 7 of our 9 games against teams that finished with 4, 5, or 6 wins.  The other two were against the Chiefs (Alex Smith and a 15th ranked D) and Atlanta (with chokemaster Ryan in one of his worst seasons ever).   Hardly impressive no matter how it's spun.  

 

Then we needed Cincy's help to make the playoffs where we lost to a Blake Bortles led Jax after scoring a whopping 3 points, one of our worst games on the season.  

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by PBF81

[Punching Bag]

16 hours ago, Fixxxer said:

 

Interesting take on the state of our beloved team coming into the 2023 season, and this video was made before the Oliver extension and the signing of Leonard Floyd (check his reaction video if you want)

 

GO BILLS!!

 

 

Seems more of a PFF fan than a P*tsies fan.

 

 

I am pretty sure some get paid to constantly name drop them.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Point taken, but that's being a bit dramatic.  

 

We won 7 of our 9 games against teams that finished with 4, 5, or 6 wins.  The other two were against the Chiefs (Alex Smith and a 15th ranked D) and Atlanta (with chokemaster Ryan in one of his worst seasons ever).   Hardly impressive no matter how it's spun.  

 

Then we needed Cincy's help to make the playoffs where we lost to a Blake Bortles led Jax after scoring a whopping 3 points, one of our worst games on the season.  

 

 

It was just a joke.  I know in terms of DVOA we lucked into the playoffs that year as our expected win total was between 6 and 7 depending on what metric you used.  We also had a negative point differential if memory serves me correctly.

 

Let me ask you this question because you seem to be rightfully more skeptical of McD than the average Bills fan.  Would you have fired McDermott after last season if you could've replaced him with Sean Payton?  

[Bobby Hooks]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

No I don't know that. I never said once that Halim didn't effect the team. 

 

I'm saying the narrative came out after the fact. I'm saying we have no idea how much of a negative impact it had. Was it mild, medium, or very significant? You don't know either. However, so many here assume it was devastating and the major reason why the Bills lost. 

 

I truly believe that there was a negative effect when Hamlin's life was in on the line. When his health was in question. Of course that played a negative role. 

 

However, circumstances changed dramatocally; thank God! Hamlin was released from the hospital. Word was coming out he was likely to be fine. Whispers that he might even play football. I'd agrue Hamlin was a rallying point not a distraction.

 

That is no small circumstance to omit. The team and the players and fans were elated and relieved. Halim love and his miracle story was embraced by everyone. Signs everywhere! Win for Damar was a common theme. It's destiny was another common theme. Correct? It was time to play football!

 

The Bills got outcoached by Miami. Had Tia played the game like my would have been lost. Imho, it would have had little to do with Hamlin. More about the Bills lack of talent, coaching and injuries. Ditto for the Cinci game too. 

 

Folks let's stop with the Damar narrative...The Von narrative was likely more significant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree that Von’s injury was extremely significant. We went from I think top five pass rush, to mid 20’s. That’s big. 
 

But that had been the case for a while. They still stacked W’s.
 

I can’t put it all on the coaching. The team looked like a deer in headlights since the Bengals game. 
 

Does coaching play a role? Of course. But if you didn’t see a huge shift in that team at the end of the season, idk what to say. 

I’m going into this season with renewed spirit, and I’m hoping the Bills do as well. There’s plenty to be excited about. 
 

Firstly, the talent. I never in a million years thought this team would actually be more talented than last year. And It appears (at least on paper) they’ve done just that. By a wide margin imo. In almost every position group. 
 

Coaching: 

Mcdermott is running this D now. Last season I’d see Mcd go up to Milano, chat in his ear, and the next play Milano would look like a terror. I’m hoping this continues. Especially with Hyde, and a healthy Tre coming back with the new additions. 
 

Dorsey will have his first year under his belt, and finally have that second TE he hoped he’d have in Howard. You’ve got to imagine that will pay dividends in what he had originally planned for this offense. 
 

Not to mention a healthy, hopefully much better protected Josh. 
 

Also, I’d just like to say, can we get some screens for this offense?! Cook, Hines, the TEs, let’s unleash some screens for crying out loud!! 
 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It was just a joke.  I know in terms of DVOA we lucked into the playoffs that year as our expected win total was between 6 and 7 depending on what metric you used.  We also had a negative point differential if memory serves me correctly.

 

Indeed.  Many really take that viewpoint tho.  

 

Yeah, we were -57 in PD, good for 21st in the league.  We've had much better teams in "the past 20 years" that haven't made the playoffs with a similar or equal record.  

 

 

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Let me ask you this question because you seem to be rightfully more skeptical of McD than the average Bills fan.  Would you have fired McDermott after last season if you could've replaced him with Sean Payton?  

 

That's an interesting question the answer to which always frustrates me.  To begin with, I wouldn't have hired McD to begin with and was also vocal in expressing my disatisfaction, so the question kind of saddles me with someone else's baggage.  

 

Here's my philosophy on coaching changes, in short, namely to plan for them.  By that I mean don't wait for the fans and media to force your hand, which is when you have to choose from "who's available."  That's happened a number of times to us in the past.  The choices are rarely optimal then.  

 

e.g., we now know, at least those that are being honest, that McD may not be capable of getting us there.  I and others had that suspicion after the 2021 season playoffs just over a year ago.  

 

So what I would do is to assess why, in this case it's pretty universally accepted that we need an Offensive, not a Defensive, minded coach.  So start looking for who's available and when they are.  The better candidates always get the most interest.  

 

In the case of right now, I would consider ditching McD if we get humiliatingly outsted from the playoffs in the D-round again after losing to an inferior team or as a result of poor coaching.  If we go to the AFC CG and play (and coach) our best but lose, that would be different.  So I'd consider the available candidates right now, as well as keeping an eye on OCs that have at least two seasons of success going into this season.  Then once I knew that I wanted to replace that coach, I'd have already spoken with the replacement and then fire the existing coach.  i.e., make sure you align your strategy with availability, something that we've traditionally done the opposite of.  I take a similar approach to the Draft(s).   

 

Here's the rub for us, Beane owes his tenure as a GM to McD.  McD has carefully chosen assistants that won't threaten his tenure as a head coach as well.  I question whether that's in the best interests of the team or merely in his own best interests.  I'm not sure I see Beane firing McD since, strangely and perhaps the first time ever in the NFL, the head coach hired the GM, both having been from this ill-fated Carolina connection.  In the same way, if Dorsey were to get fired after the season, I don't expect McD to hire an OC that could easily replace him, I'd expect another internal promotion or some other OJT type bases upon McD's MO.  So IMO that catalyst will likely be Pegula.  Hopefully he's not too preoccupied with his personal matters to take that interest.  

 

Both McD and Beane are signed thru the '25 season, three more seasons.  I'm not sure how this plays out.  IMO Beane's hardly vindicated here either.  It's possible that both go, but who knows what's going thru Pegula's mind.  

 

I do think that at some point it dampens fans' emotions to continue to lose in the early rounds of the playoffs year after year with a QB like Allen on the roster.  I have difficulty believing that this does not impact the players/team as well.  Several players, including Allen, have outs for after the '24 season in their contracts.  I don't see Allen ever leaving Buffalo, but who knows, if a Ring is on his mind and he doesn't think he can get one here, ... 

 

We'll see.   Who knows, maybe we win it all this season and we can all die happy.  Like many, all I want is one.  But if things don't go well, I think the fans are going to start getting louder about that all too and join the national and then even regional media is calling for a change.  

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

18 hours ago, Success said:

 

It wasn't a "created narrative."  It was obvious in both the Miami and Cincy playoff games.  Everyone who watched the Bills dominate most of the season was like, "who is this team?"

 

It was no big mystery. They looked emotionally drained, because they were.  A popular teammate dying on the field, 2 blizzards w/ a relocation, a rash of injuries - to call all of that an excuse is to deny that football players are actually human beings, also.

 

 

I agree with everything you've said.

 

And yet...  as an old soldier I have to point this out.  Soldiers are expected to win battles even when they haven't seen home for months, the food sucks, they're sleeping outdoors in crap weather, enemy soldiers are trying to kill them, and their friends are dying.  I think McD is a very good football coach and I'm glad we have him.  But he failed to have the team ready for Cinci. 

 

Leaders have to find ways to lead their guys to victory even when everything sucks.  The circumstances McD was up against pales when compared to the circumstances some military leaders have successfully faced.  

[Bobby Hooks]

6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree with everything you've said.

 

And yet...  as an old soldier I have to point this out.  Soldiers are expected to win battles even when they haven't seen home for months, the food sucks, they're sleeping outdoors in crap weather, enemy soldiers are trying to kill them, and their friends are dying.  I think McD is a very good football coach and I'm glad we have him.  But he failed to have the team ready for Cinci. 

 

Leaders have to find ways to lead their guys to victory even when everything sucks.  The circumstances McD was up against pales when compared to the circumstances some military leaders have successfully faced.  

This is a bit of a stretch. I’m not saying that the guys don’t want to bring a championship to Buffalo very badly, but if they don’t, no one is dying. 
 

Their family and loved ones won’t be killed, maimed, or enslaved. Their way of life won’t change as a result. 
 

The circumstance pales, but so does the end result. So I don’t think this is a good example. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[Utah John]

The comments are based in reality, that the Bills suffered an incredibly difficult season of woes and still finished 13-3.  Presumably lightning won't strike twice, and they'll get through this season with fewer injuries/snowstorns/tragedies.

 

Not mentioned was the departure of Leslie Frazier.  Many people like to criticize Frazier for the Bills' D dropping off in the playoffs, but the truth is that the Bills have enjoyed an outstanding string of defensive seasons under Frazier as DC, at least in the regular season. I think McD and Frazier were on the same page, but that's not the same thing as saying McD can fulfill the DC duties as well as HC.  It's not a matter of putting great players on the field and telling them to go play.  There are detailed and sophisticated schemes involved in setting up attacks that the opposing O isn't ready for.  Someone was coming up with those schemes for the Bills, and I think that someone was Frazier.  If McD is too busy to do that this year, or just doesn't have Frazier's creative abilities, the D could suffer.  The point is, it's not clear at all whether the D will sustain its level of excellence.  

[folz]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Here's the rub for us, Beane owes his tenure as a GM to McD.  McD has carefully chosen assistants that won't threaten his tenure as a head coach as well.  I question whether that's in the best interests of the team or merely in his own best interests.  I'm not sure I see Beane firing McD since, strangely and perhaps the first time ever in the NFL, the head coach hired the GM, both having been from this ill-fated Carolina connection.  In the same way, if Dorsey were to get fired after the season, I don't expect McD to hire an OC that could easily replace him, I'd expect another internal promotion or some other OJT type bases upon McD's MO.  So IMO that catalyst will likely be Pegula.  Hopefully he's not too preoccupied with his personal matters to take that interest.  

 

 

I don't know, the posters that call themselves realists seem to throw just as much speculation and opinion out there as any so-called homers do. But if you are negative and say you are a realist then apparently your opinions and speculation are more factual than others.

 

I won't debate the emotional toll of last year (as it has been debated endlessly and nothing will seem to change opinions either way). But, there is a very real human element to sport that I think some are discounting too easily. But I'll agree to disagree there.

 

But what forms your bolded "opinion" above? You make it sound like McD is so afraid of losing his team or job that he hires lesser quality coaches to protect himself (like some paranoid dictator). First of all, that is total speculation/opinion on your part. But just to counter a bit:

 

McD has hired three former NFL head coaches, a former NFL assistant head coach, and a head coach from Alabama. Plus he hired Brian Daboll who left Buffalo to become a head coach. He's had many assistants (at lower positions) that have been former NFL coordinators. And Dorsey could be considered by some as an up-and-coming offensive coach.

 

Maybe you don't like his coaching hires and think there are some young, hot-shot coaches out there that we should have hired...but I can see no evidence that McD is purposely choosing lesser assistant coaches to protect himself.

 

We get it, you don't like McDermott as the head coach of the Bills, you don't like Dorsey, and you're luke-warm on Beane. Yet, we are enjoying a resurgence of Buffalo Bills football because of McD and Beane. We wouldn't have Josh Allen without McD and Beane. We wouldn't have the culture and family-atmosphere that includes the  fans without Beane and McD, etc., etc. I know, you don't think McDermott can take us all the way...and at this point, that is a fair argument (I disagree, but that's ok). All I'm saying (to end with a couple of cliches) is be careful what you wish for because the grass isn't always greener. And besides, McDermott is not getting fired this year and probably not next year either (unless the Bills have a total collapse of some sort), so in a way, you just have to suck it up and enjoy the ride anyhow, regardless of how you feel about him.

 

 

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Indeed.  Many really take that viewpoint tho.  

 

Yeah, we were -57 in PD, good for 21st in the league.  We've had much better teams in "the past 20 years" that haven't made the playoffs with a similar or equal record.  

 

 

 

That's an interesting question the answer to which always frustrates me.  To begin with, I wouldn't have hired McD to begin with and was also vocal in expressing my disatisfaction, so the question kind of saddles me with someone else's baggage.  

 

Here's my philosophy on coaching changes, in short, namely to plan for them.  By that I mean don't wait for the fans and media to force your hand, which is when you have to choose from "who's available."  That's happened a number of times to us in the past.  The choices are rarely optimal then.  

 

e.g., we now know, at least those that are being honest, that McD may not be capable of getting us there.  I and others had that suspicion after the 2021 season playoffs just over a year ago.  

 

So what I would do is to assess why, in this case it's pretty universally accepted that we need an Offensive, not a Defensive, minded coach.  So start looking for who's available and when they are.  The better candidates always get the most interest.  

 

In the case of right now, I would consider ditching McD if we get humiliatingly outsted from the playoffs in the D-round again after losing to an inferior team or as a result of poor coaching.  If we go to the AFC CG and play (and coach) our best but lose, that would be different.  So I'd consider the available candidates right now, as well as keeping an eye on OCs that have at least two seasons of success going into this season.  Then once I knew that I wanted to replace that coach, I'd have already spoken with the replacement and then fire the existing coach.  i.e., make sure you align your strategy with availability, something that we've traditionally done the opposite of.  I take a similar approach to the Draft(s).   

 

Here's the rub for us, Beane owes his tenure as a GM to McD.  McD has carefully chosen assistants that won't threaten his tenure as a head coach as well.  I question whether that's in the best interests of the team or merely in his own best interests.  I'm not sure I see Beane firing McD since, strangely and perhaps the first time ever in the NFL, the head coach hired the GM, both having been from this ill-fated Carolina connection.  In the same way, if Dorsey were to get fired after the season, I don't expect McD to hire an OC that could easily replace him, I'd expect another internal promotion or some other OJT type bases upon McD's MO.  So IMO that catalyst will likely be Pegula.  Hopefully he's not too preoccupied with his personal matters to take that interest.  

 

Both McD and Beane are signed thru the '25 season, three more seasons.  I'm not sure how this plays out.  IMO Beane's hardly vindicated here either.  It's possible that both go, but who knows what's going thru Pegula's mind.  

 

I do think that at some point it dampens fans' emotions to continue to lose in the early rounds of the playoffs year after year with a QB like Allen on the roster.  I have difficulty believing that this does not impact the players/team as well.  Several players, including Allen, have outs for after the '24 season in their contracts.  I don't see Allen ever leaving Buffalo, but who knows, if a Ring is on his mind and he doesn't think he can get one here, ... 

 

We'll see.   Who knows, maybe we win it all this season and we can all die happy.  Like many, all I want is one.  But if things don't go well, I think the fans are going to start getting louder about that all too and join the national and then even regional media is calling for a change.  

 

 

Fantastic post. Very thorough and thought out. 

 

I am one to get ahead of things and not afraid to make a change. Sure there is risk but there's always reward.

 

I see a pattern here of McD falling short. Of course, there's a possibility that a turnaround is possible. How likely is debatable. There is certainly an argument for McD to stay. 

 

I think your assessment about McD and previous and current coaches is pretty spot on. Whether on purpose or by default, McD has always had a scape goat in his path. For years it was Fraizer and now it's Dorsey. 

 

I will also add that most Bills fans seem to be more acceptable to making the playoffs only to fizzle out early in the playoffs. I believe this mentality exists because of the past decades of failures. What follows is: it's hard to win it all, we made the playoffs again and had a shot at it, we will improve, and next year will be the year. Optimism certainly prevails over skepticism. 

 

Sean P would have been a great asset for the Bills. The guy has a ring, coached a franchise QB, and is offensive minded and aggressive. Hard for me to believe that Allen wouldn't have excelled under his tenure. He came at steep cost but I believe it was worth it. 

 

Another season with this regime, coaches or lack of, similiar schemes, etc..seems destined for similar results. Change sometimes is difficult, risky, and unpleasant. I for one would have been extremely excited to see a Sean P led Bills team. I think it's exactly what the Bills needed. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by newcam2012

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

This is a bit of a stretch. I’m not saying that the guys don’t want to bring a championship to Buffalo very badly, but if they don’t, no one is dying. 
 

Their family and loved ones won’t be killed, maimed, or enslaved. Their way of life won’t change as a result. 
 

The circumstance pales, but so does the end result. So I don’t think this is a good example. 

 

I'm just saying leaders need to rise to the occasion and have their teams ready.  McD certainly had a unique set of circumstances working against him.  I'm empathetic.  But it's undeniable that he did not rise to the occasion against the Bengals.  His team wasn't ready.  

 

But I also look at the bigger picture: usually McD does have the Bills ready to play.  I think, since he's been here, he's achieved more wins than should have been expected given the roster (and injuries).   Cinci just wasn't his shining moment.  

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Indeed.  Many really take that viewpoint tho.  

 

Yeah, we were -57 in PD, good for 21st in the league.  We've had much better teams in "the past 20 years" that haven't made the playoffs with a similar or equal record.  

 

 

 

That's an interesting question the answer to which always frustrates me.  To begin with, I wouldn't have hired McD to begin with and was also vocal in expressing my disatisfaction, so the question kind of saddles me with someone else's baggage.  

 

Here's my philosophy on coaching changes, in short, namely to plan for them.  By that I mean don't wait for the fans and media to force your hand, which is when you have to choose from "who's available."  That's happened a number of times to us in the past.  The choices are rarely optimal then.  

 

e.g., we now know, at least those that are being honest, that McD may not be capable of getting us there.  I and others had that suspicion after the 2021 season playoffs just over a year ago.  

 

So what I would do is to assess why, in this case it's pretty universally accepted that we need an Offensive, not a Defensive, minded coach.  So start looking for who's available and when they are.  The better candidates always get the most interest.  

 

In the case of right now, I would consider ditching McD if we get humiliatingly outsted from the playoffs in the D-round again after losing to an inferior team or as a result of poor coaching.  If we go to the AFC CG and play (and coach) our best but lose, that would be different.  So I'd consider the available candidates right now, as well as keeping an eye on OCs that have at least two seasons of success going into this season.  Then once I knew that I wanted to replace that coach, I'd have already spoken with the replacement and then fire the existing coach.  i.e., make sure you align your strategy with availability, something that we've traditionally done the opposite of.  I take a similar approach to the Draft(s).   

 

Here's the rub for us, Beane owes his tenure as a GM to McD.  McD has carefully chosen assistants that won't threaten his tenure as a head coach as well.  I question whether that's in the best interests of the team or merely in his own best interests.  I'm not sure I see Beane firing McD since, strangely and perhaps the first time ever in the NFL, the head coach hired the GM, both having been from this ill-fated Carolina connection.  In the same way, if Dorsey were to get fired after the season, I don't expect McD to hire an OC that could easily replace him, I'd expect another internal promotion or some other OJT type bases upon McD's MO.  So IMO that catalyst will likely be Pegula.  Hopefully he's not too preoccupied with his personal matters to take that interest.  

 

Both McD and Beane are signed thru the '25 season, three more seasons.  I'm not sure how this plays out.  IMO Beane's hardly vindicated here either.  It's possible that both go, but who knows what's going thru Pegula's mind.  

 

I do think that at some point it dampens fans' emotions to continue to lose in the early rounds of the playoffs year after year with a QB like Allen on the roster.  I have difficulty believing that this does not impact the players/team as well.  Several players, including Allen, have outs for after the '24 season in their contracts.  I don't see Allen ever leaving Buffalo, but who knows, if a Ring is on his mind and he doesn't think he can get one here, ... 

 

We'll see.   Who knows, maybe we win it all this season and we can all die happy.  Like many, all I want is one.  But if things don't go well, I think the fans are going to start getting louder about that all too and join the national and then even regional media is calling for a change.  

 

 

Fair enough.  I asked that question because Payton was the only coach available that I would've considered making the switch to after the Bengals game if I was Pegula.  A proven innovative offensive minded NFL head coach who has a strong enough resume/personality to sell to the fans and players that as much as McD is loved, they just couldn't pass on that upgrade.  I pry still wouldn't have done it because we have too good of a thing going here at present.  I'd have to see either a disastrous season not due to an influx of injuries or another playoff game where McD was as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that Bengals game.

 

I doubt McD chooses assistants who won't threaten his job.  That's not how the NFL works.  You want to do everything you can to hire the best assistants because winning is the key to job security in a cutthroat business that is the NFL.   The only two examples off the top of my head in the last 10 or so seasons is two ex Bills head coaches ironically (Mularkey and Marrone).  They had some weird team dynamics there and they were replacing two horrible head coaches.

[PrimeTime101]

for a change, I am just enjoying my popcorn laughing my but off...  

[Fixxxer]

 

[akcash]

This guy does a great job. He sounds like a Bills fan and not a Bills fan. He knows his stuff. Props!

[Buffalo Super Fan]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Fair enough.  I asked that question because Payton was the only coach available that I would've considered making the switch to after the Bengals game if I was Pegula.  A proven innovative offensive minded NFL head coach who has a strong enough resume/personality to sell to the fans and players that as much as McD is loved, they just couldn't pass on that upgrade.  I pry still wouldn't have done it because we have too good of a thing going here at present.  I'd have to see either a disastrous season not due to an influx of injuries or another playoff game where McD was as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that Bengals game.

 

I doubt McD chooses assistants who won't threaten his job.  That's not how the NFL works.  You want to do everything you can to hire the best assistants because winning is the key to job security in a cutthroat business that is the NFL.   The only two examples off the top of my head in the last 10 or so seasons is two ex Bills head coaches ironically (Mularkey and Marrone).  They had some weird team dynamics there and they were replacing two horrible head coaches.

Sean McDermott simply isn’t good enough. I don’t expect him to ever win the Buffalo Bills a Super Bowl Championship unfortunately for us Bills fans. I hope I am wrong but I am not expecting Seen McDermott to ever change he is a middle of the wrestling card professional wrestler to use a professional wrestling analogy that’s sums up Sean McDermott as a NFL head coach. Sean McDermott is never going to be a WWF Championship champion Hulk Hogan or NWA or WCW Championship champion Ric Flair. Sean McDermott is like a Greg “The Hammer” Valentine type wrestler a great mid card wrestler so a second tier champion WWF Intercontinental Championship champion or NWA US Championship Champion or NWA TV Champion or NWA/WWF Tag Team Champion. I have always felt Sean McDermott would be a great NCAA college football coach teaching about life whatever he isn’t a top card coach unfortunately there is no shame in that. But it’s just too much of a heavy lift for Sean McDermott in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[PrimeTime101]

28 minutes ago, I am leaving for good said:

Sean McDermott simply isn’t good enough. I don’t expect him to ever win the Buffalo Bills a Super Bowl Championship unfortunately for us Bills fans. I hope I am wrong but I am not expecting Seen McDermott to ever change he is a middle of the wrestling card professional wrestler to use a professional wrestling analogy that’s sums up Sean McDermott as a NFL head coach. Sean McDermott is never going to be a WWF Championship champion Hulk Hogan or NWA or WCW Championship champion Ric Flair. Sean McDermott is like a Greg “The Hammer” Valentine type wrestler a great mid card wrestler so a second tier champion WWF Intercontinental Championship champion or NWA US Championship Champion or NWA TV Champion or NWA/WWF Tag Team Champion. I have always felt Sean McDermott would be a great NCAA college football coach teaching about life whatever he isn’t a top card coach unfortunately there is no shame in that. But it’s just too much of a heavy lift for Sean McDermott in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

why are we comparing NFL to Fake Wrestling again?  I want your crystal Ball. I would be a millionaire 10 times over again. 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, I am leaving for good said:

Sean McDermott simply isn’t good enough. I don’t expect him to ever win the Buffalo Bills a Super Bowl Championship unfortunately for us Bills fans. I hope I am wrong but I am not expecting Seen McDermott to ever change he is a middle of the wrestling card professional wrestler to use a professional wrestling analogy that’s sums up Sean McDermott as a NFL head coach. Sean McDermott is never going to be a WWF Championship champion Hulk Hogan or NWA or WCW Championship champion Ric Flair. Sean McDermott is like a Greg “The Hammer” Valentine type wrestler a great mid card wrestler so a second tier champion WWF Intercontinental Championship champion or NWA US Championship Champion or NWA TV Champion or NWA/WWF Tag Team Champion. I have always felt Sean McDermott would be a great NCAA college football coach teaching about life whatever he isn’t a top card coach unfortunately there is no shame in that. But it’s just too much of a heavy lift for Sean McDermott in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

If you’re that down on this Bills team feel free to live up to your name…. 🤷‍♂️ 

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I see a pattern here of McD falling short. Of course, there's a possibility that a turnaround is possible. How likely is debatable. There is certainly an argument for McD to stay. 

 

The pattern(s) is/are clear.  The question is how long do you allow them to continue if there is no improvement?  

 

This "they'll eventually get it right" mantra is absurd.  These aren't pop-warner kids here, these are highly paid coaches.  Their apologists will talk about how they're "experts," but sorry, experts don't make "13 Seconds" types of mistake.  To the contrary.  

 

It's like anything else, when there are enough initial followers, everyone else will become a follower too, regarding fan & media opinion in the matter.  

 

This also explains why once it gets to that point you'd think that the outgoing person just burned down the house of many poster given the comments that arise.  That emotional pendulum swing ... LOL  It's very amusing to see.  

 

 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Fair enough.  I asked that question because Payton was the only coach available that I would've considered making the switch to after the Bengals game if I was Pegula.  A proven innovative offensive minded NFL head coach who has a strong enough resume/personality to sell to the fans and players that as much as McD is loved, they just couldn't pass on that upgrade.  I pry still wouldn't have done it because we have too good of a thing going here at present.  I'd have to see either a disastrous season not due to an influx of injuries or another playoff game where McD was as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that Bengals game.

 

I doubt McD chooses assistants who won't threaten his job.  That's not how the NFL works.  You want to do everything you can to hire the best assistants because winning is the key to job security in a cutthroat business that is the NFL.   The only two examples off the top of my head in the last 10 or so seasons is two ex Bills head coaches ironically (Mularkey and Marrone).  They had some weird team dynamics there and they were replacing two horrible head coaches.

 

Have you looked at Daboll's record as an OC prior to coming here, as well as in his first two seasons here?   He was awful.  His highest rank in those 6 seasons in either scoring or yardage offense was 20th.  He ranked 32nd or DFL at least twice and most of the time he was in the bottom handful.  That's not someone that even remotely threatens your job.  

 

Dorsey?  Does anything need to be said.  

 

Frasier wasn't as bad but he was hardly good.  The last DC gig he had prior to coming here his D ranked 17th in yardage and 25th in scoring.  

 

He chose 'em.  Why can be debated, but what can't really be debated is that none of them when they were hired were on anyone's radar for head coach roles.  

 

When he chose Beane as his GM (has that ever happened before in the NFL?) Beane also wasn't on anyone's radar to be GM.  He owes everything to McD. What were the odds that McD would have chosen someone with no loyalty or sense of commitment to him?  I don't think good.  

 

As to coaches, IMO any OC with a positive track record wouldn't do worse with Allen here.  The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that.  Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up.  

 

 

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

why are we comparing NFL to Fake Wrestling again?  I want your crystal Ball. I would be a millionaire 10 times over again. 

 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Have you looked at Daboll's record as an OC prior to coming here, as well as in his first two seasons here?   He was awful.  His highest rank in those 6 seasons in either scoring or yardage offense was 20th.  He ranked 32nd or DFL at least twice and most of the time he was in the bottom handful.  That's not someone that even remotely threatens your job.  

 

Dorsey?  Does anything need to be said.  

 

Frasier wasn't as bad but he was hardly good.  The last DC gig he had prior to coming here his D ranked 17th in yardage and 25th in scoring.  

 

He chose 'em.  Why can be debated, but what can't really be debated is that none of them when they were hired were on anyone's radar for head coach roles.  

 

When he chose Beane as his GM (has that ever happened before in the NFL?) Beane also wasn't on anyone's radar to be GM.  He owes everything to McD. What were the odds that McD would have chosen someone with no loyalty or sense of commitment to him?  I don't think good.  

 

As to coaches, IMO any OC with a positive track record wouldn't do worse with Allen here.  The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that.  Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up.  

 

 

 

 

 

2:57  NOPE!

[4merper4mer]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that.  Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up.  

 

 

 

Am I misreading this or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible?

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Am I misreading this or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible?

 

Allow me to answer that with a question.

 

Are you, or those referenced, saying that it's close to optimal?

 

 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Have you looked at Daboll's record as an OC prior to coming here, as well as in his first two seasons here?   He was awful.  His highest rank in those 6 seasons in either scoring or yardage offense was 20th.  He ranked 32nd or DFL at least twice and most of the time he was in the bottom handful.  That's not someone that even remotely threatens your job.  

 

Dorsey?  Does anything need to be said.  

 

Frasier wasn't as bad but he was hardly good.  The last DC gig he had prior to coming here his D ranked 17th in yardage and 25th in scoring.  

 

He chose 'em.  Why can be debated, but what can't really be debated is that none of them when they were hired were on anyone's radar for head coach roles.  

 

When he chose Beane as his GM (has that ever happened before in the NFL?) Beane also wasn't on anyone's radar to be GM.  He owes everything to McD. What were the odds that McD would have chosen someone with no loyalty or sense of commitment to him?  I don't think good.  

 

As to coaches, IMO any OC with a positive track record wouldn't do worse with Allen here.  The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that.  Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up.  

A head coach is going to hire the best assistants possible because it gives them the best chance to win and keep their job.  Thinking they're afraid that hiring too good of a coordinator that they might threaten their job is tin foil hat stuff man. 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

A head coach is going to hire the best assistants possible because it gives them the best chance to win and keep their job.  Thinking they're afraid that hiring too good of a coordinator that they might threaten their job is tin foil hat stuff man. 

 

Come on, McD has hired people he has connections with over the best more than once.  

 

Daboll's offenses before here in 6 seasons averaged in the high 20s, I'd guess 28th or so.  Best?  Please.

 

Dorsey was the best?

 

Talk about tim foil hat stuff.  

 

I'd also seriously question his judgement there as well.  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by PBF81

[4merper4mer]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Allow me to answer that with a question.

 

Are you, or those referenced, saying that it's close to optimal?

 

 

You replied to my post but did not answer my question.  Am I misreading what you typed or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible?

 

Despite your rudeness I’ll answer your question.  Twice!
 

For clarity I’ll speak only for myself, not for others as you condescendingly requested.

 

1.  If by “it”you mean any unit or position room in the NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA and by optimal you mean maximized, then no.

2. if by “it” you mean your level of ridiculous hyperbole and by optimal you mean maximized then yes.

[BuffaloBill]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:10 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I don't need to make a whole video. Below is the 2023 New England Patriots From a Bills fan perspective:

 

 

Could you be a little more succinct, please. 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

You replied to my post but did not answer my question.  Am I misreading what you typed or are you saying the Bills have the worst offense possible?

 

Despite your rudeness I’ll answer your question.  Twice!
 

For clarity I’ll speak only for myself, not for others as you condescendingly requested.

 

1.  If by “it”you mean any unit or position room in the NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA and by optimal you mean maximized, then no.

2. if by “it” you mean your level of ridiculous hyperbole and by optimal you mean maximized then yes.

 

First of all I'm not sure where you come up with rudeness.  Never was I intent on being rude, I always strive not to be.  

 

We have Allen who does everything, at times out of necessity as if he's playing sandlot ball.  ... which is a reflection of a lack of guidance.  (AKA coaching) 

 

We make the least use of our RBs in the entire league by a country mile.  

 

Our play calling is questionable at best. 

 

We have a head coach that once legitimately thought that Peterman was or best chance to win.  

 

If Allen's gonna be Allen, no, I don't see how we could be much worse offensively.  

 

This is exactly why I've said that if Dorsey does a great job this fall, we have the ability to be the best Offense in team history.  

 

Under any circumstances, which also means under any coach, I can't imagine us finishing worse than 5th offensively this season.  

 

While on the sidelines two seasons ago, I also envision no other coach allowing "13 Seconds," not one.  

 

 

[Don Otreply]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:45 PM, newcam2012 said:

Perhaps you are correct. We will really never know.

 

Before that Monday Cinci game the Bills were on a big winning streak. If you closely look at those games you could reasonable conclude that the Bills weren't playing at their best. Several ugly wins for sure. That should be factored in as a piece to the puzzle. 

I'm already talking too. I get a lot of heat for it too. 

 

Just hard to watch McD, Fraizer, and Dorsey get outclassed come playoff time. At least Fraizer is gone. 

Its only my opinion, and can be discounted by whoever cares to do so. Our coaching staff has not introduced new wrinkles into the defense ever, (most notably in the post season) . The offense became predictable in its play design and calls, and it was evidenced by the success of our opponents defenses. IMO our post season opponents pretty much knew what the Bills game plan was going to consist off, and it showed. So, this upcoming season, it will be incumbent on the play design / play calling minds at OBD on both the O & D to shake up the status quo, and get creative when the demand to do so is present, should they succeed at doing this we can win it all,  now I’m gonna go make coffee and read for a while, ☕️☕️☕️

(and yes injuries and a bad O line didn’t help)

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Punching Bag]

28 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Its only my opinion, and can be discounted by whoever cares to do so. Our coaching staff has not introduced new wrinkles into the defense ever, (most notably in the post season) .

 

Incorrect.  Bills designed the defense for the playoffs which neutralized Lemar Jackson, a defense never shown before, and this defense was then copied by other teams to help defend against him.    They frustrated him with Trent Murphy keeping him in pocket and not allowing himself to get out of position which forced him to be a passer who was seeing ghosts resulting in endzone interception for TD.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2021/01/16/lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens-knocked-flat-buffalo-bills-big-plays/4195244001/

 

Quote

Jackson couldn’t lead the Ravens to as much as a touchdown against a much-maligned Bills defense that kept him bottled up in the pocket for much of the night. And when Jackson drove the Ravens to their best opportunity to score a touchdown in the third quarter that might have tied the game, the game changed just like that.

 

Quote

A few minutes later, the Ravens were really doomed. On the ensuing possession, Jackson picked up an errant shotgun snap and tried to salvage an incompletion in the face of a heavy rush. He retreated nearly to his goal line, as Tremaine Edmunds barreled in. As he threw the ball away in desperation, he was flagged for intentional grounding … and pounded by Trent Murphy. Disaster was compounded as Jackson’s head crashed to the turf. And he was finished.

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Incorrect.  Bills designed the defense for the playoffs which neutralized Lemar Jackson, a defense never shown before, and this defense was then copied by other teams to help defend against him.    They frustrated him with Trent Murphy keeping him in pocket and not allowing himself to get out of position which forced him to be a passer who was seeing ghosts resulting in endzone interception for TD.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2021/01/16/lamar-jackson-baltimore-ravens-knocked-flat-buffalo-bills-big-plays/4195244001/

 

 

 

Okay, once then, and Trent Murphy was a long time ago by NFL standards, how about since then…, especially when the defensive game plan isn’t working, playoffs, cough, cough, Imo there is an outstanding chance that a more aggressive defense with timely adjustments will happen more frequently with McDermott calling the shots, being that Leslie “ I’m not making adjustments “ Frazier is no longer here, I do believe KD will be a better overall OC this upcoming season, especially in the post season when putting your opponent on his back foot is so very important, gotta mix things up to allow that to happen.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited June 12, 2023 by Don Otreply

[hondo in seattle]

Finally got around to watching the video.  While I didn't learn anything new, I was impressed how knowledgeable the guy was and how professionally he presented his material.  

[Fleezoid]

32 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Finally got around to watching the video.  While I didn't learn anything new, I was impressed how knowledgeable the guy was and how professionally he presented his material.  

 

I quit at about the 10 min mark. Nothing new, just the same talking points. 

[BillsFan692]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:06 PM, newcam2012 said:

He has won 4 playoff games but he's lost 5. That's a 44% playoff win rate. Not good. 

 

You can blame Fraizer but McD must equally or even more so get the blame. He is the head coach who he trusted Fraizer after multiple defensive playoffs performances.

 

He absolutely gave the KC game away in 13 seconds. Then they fired the special teams coach. 

 

The team was horrific on every level and facet of the game vs Cinci. What game plan? What adjustments? Etc.. The coach had to take blame for this! 

 

Let's not paint McD as this some sort of Godlike figure. Not saying You are but some here feel like he's untouchable or flawless. 

 

There is plenty to be critical about with regards to McD. I'm starting to believe he's a great team builder and regular season coach. Come playoff time it's a different story. The record backs this up. 

Dude has coached in 9 playoff games since he took over.. wow. 

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=optimism

[maddenboy]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:03 PM, Doc Brown said:

It was just a joke.  I know in terms of DVOA we lucked into the playoffs that year as our expected win total was between 6 and 7 depending on what metric you used.  We also had a negative point differential if memory serves me correctly.

 

Let me ask you this question because you seem to be rightfully more skeptical of McD than the average Bills fan.  Would you have fired McDermott after last season if you could've replaced him with Sean Payton?  

yes

 

a thousand times, yes.

 

yes, please.

 

and i dont mind McD so much.   But i woulda fired mike Tomlin, or probably even 80 year old Belichick, to get Payton.  The only coaches i would not have fired for Sean Payton are Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan.   And yes, Harbaugh would get fired too.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by maddenboy

[Doc Brown]

32 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

yes

 

a thousand times, yes.

 

yes, please.

 

and i dont mind McD so much.   But i woulda fired mike Tomlin, or probably even 80 year old Belichick, to get Payton.  The only coaches i would not have fired for Sean Payton are Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan.   And yes, Harbaugh would get fired too.

He's a great coach with a great offensive mind.  However, to be fair he only won one Super Bowl in his 14 years with Drew Brees going 9-8 in the playoffs.  Is he really that much of an upgrade over McDermott who has a similar playoff record percentage wise with Allen (3-4) but has yet to win a Super Bowl?  I'm not so sure.

[maddenboy]

its about the offensive mind.  the offensive creativity. 

 

I am sold on the arguments that if you have a great qb, you throw everything into continuity and constant innovation on that side of the ball.

 

That way, at least i would know i tried my very very best to maximize my great qb.