Was the trade up necessary? 🤔

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, appoo said:

Except there was nothing available where they were drafting that could have helped with either of those things? Like even if you drafted JPJ  - probably the best defender left on the board at 27 - you're going from either Elam or Tre to JPJ? I'm not trying to be arrogant or anything, but you simply didn't have starting players at either OL or LB at that spot. The closest was Anton Harrison from Oklahoma, who's long term position might actually be IOL, and was a reach by the Jags. Odds are he wouldn't have beaten out our incumbent RT. Does Mazi Smith start at 1T? No. Would Beresee start at 3T? I believe not. 

 

Sure you can make the arguement those picks would have been better...but I guess I just disagree with them over an actual starter in Dalton Kincaid, who can play inside or outside when we go 11/12, both he and Knox are going to get a ton of reps, and it enables Diggs to play inside/out as well. 

 

Kincaid has the potential to exponentially improve the offense in games like we saw against the Bengals, who were especially so effective in their pass rush, becasue they never feared the pass game between the hashes

 

I feel better now that we've drafted Torrence.  

 

I would argue that Kincaid won't get many starts, ... unless he's our slot WR, but that'd be a different role than TE.  

 

They're not going to bench Knox in his favor, and I simply don't see us running a lot of 2-TE sets.  I can see it at times, but not regularly.  

 

We'll see.  But he's a small school TE that played a whole lot of low-end defenses, we'll see how well that translates to the speed and size of the NFL.  

 

 

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

You are entitled to your opinion

 

Gee thanks!  

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

What tangent?  Zay Jones was brought up, and I pointed out something was goofy there. I think that’s a fact. 

 

I’ll take the eyes of more informed people, like Daniel Jeremiah and Chris Simms, over your opinion or mine. They have him as a top 10-15 talent. I don’t buy the “good players out of conference X can’t be had at positions Y.” We used to say in banking, because you got burned on a car loan for a blue Buick doesn’t mean you don’t lend on blue cars or Buicks. Every situation is unique. It requires knowledge and experience to know the difference. 

 

 I like his skill set. My biggest concern is Dorsey knowing how to use the pieces he’s given. I’m hoping for large strides forward for our OC. 

 

Those guys talk out of their asses all the time, it's what they get paid to do, talk and get views.  

 

If you do your own detailed analysis like I do, then I'd trust your opinion over theirs any day.   

 

As to knowledge and experience, I have quite a bit and trust and confidence my analyses and assessments.  I won't render opinions if I haven't done those analyses.  

 

We are in full agreement on Dorsey, it's definitely concerning until further notice.  

 

 

[KOKBILLS]

I'm not sure how to answer this because it all depends on how they felt about Kincaid. Because the Cowboys were going to take him 100%...I don't care what anyone says, the Cowboys were taking him. I'm never big on trading up. But I do really like the idea of Dalton on this team, and the direction the Offense is heading in. Especially after they Drafted Torrence. Things are changing and it's going to be good IMHO... 

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, MPL said:

Beane should have traded our 3rd to save himself from making the typical dumb 3rd round pick. 

 

You called it!

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I feel better now that we've drafted Torrence.  

 

I would argue that Kincaid won't get many starts, ... unless he's our slot WR, but that'd be a different role than TE.  

 

They're not going to bench Knox in his favor, and I simply don't see us running a lot of 2-TE sets.  I can see it at times, but not regularly.  

 

We'll see.  But he's a small school TE that played a whole lot of low-end defenses, we'll see how well that translates to the speed and size of the NFL.  

 

 

 

Gee thanks!  

 

Those guys talk out of their asses all the time, it's what they get paid to do, talk and get views.  

 

If you do your own detailed analysis like I do, then I'd trust your opinion over theirs any day.   

 

As to knowledge and experience, I have quite a bit and trust and confidence my analyses and assessments.  I won't render opinions if I haven't done those analyses.  

 

We are in full agreement on Dorsey, it's definitely concerning until further notice.  

 

 

 

There are some people here who evaluate and share knowledge about football, college and NFL, that I really appreciate. They don’t sell themselves as experts, they just share their opinions. How much respect their views deserve is determined over time. 

 

EDIT: BTW, I think Beane already said he’s our big slot. Does that influence your deeply considered opinion? That has been widely discussed. 

 

.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Augie

[ganesh]

The draft is a crap shoot.  If you had a feel for a certain player and you needed to get him, the 4th round pick is not important. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The draft is a crap shoot.  If you had a feel for a certain player and you needed to get him, the 4th round pick is not important. 

 

One guy you have a strong feeling about beats a couple….”well, ok, if those are the options”. 

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

There are some people here who evaluate and share knowledge about football, college and NFL, that I really appreciate. They don’t sell themselves as experts, they just share their opinions. How much respect their views deserve is determined over time. 

 

EDIT: BTW, I think Beane already said he’s our big slot. Does that influence your deeply considered opinion? That has been widely discussed.

 

Not really, Beane & Co. is notorious for talking out of his ass.  He's said a lot of things that didn't happen.  Himes, Cook, etc.  

 

Not looking to pick a fight, but I'm confident in my assessments.  I was one of the few that thought that Oliver was overrated for example.  I made it clear that Zay Jones would be a bust.  So bust on me all you like, I'm the one that has to be happy with my own thoughts.  You can ignore them as you wish.  If you merely want to troll me and pick a fight, I'm really not interested.  Good back-n-forth discussion I'm good with.  

 

How many times have I said we'll have to wait and see?  I thin that's more than fair, sorry you do not share that view and have to be right instead w/o any proof.  

 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not really, Beane & Co. is notorious for talking out of his ass.  He's said a lot of things that didn't happen.  Himes, Cook, etc.  

 

Not looking to pick a fight, but I'm confident in my assessments.  I was one of the few that thought that Oliver was overrated for example.  I made it clear that Zay Jones would be a bust.  So bust on me all you like, I'm the one that has to be happy with my own thoughts.  You can ignore them as you wish.  If you merely want to troll me and pick a fight, I'm really not interested.  Good back-n-forth discussion I'm good with.  

 

How many times have I said we'll have to wait and see?  I thin that's more than fair, sorry you do not share that view and have to be right instead w/o any proof.  

 

 

I’ll just put this here to demonstrate how non-responsive it was to my post. 

 

EDIT: Zay Jones had 82 receptions last season. And Ed Oliver was dominant at times when healthy. A high ankle sprain for a DT is a NASTY thing, but he played with it.

 

.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Augie

[Nextmanup]

No! never worth it.

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I’ll just put this here to demonstrate how non-responsive it was to my post. 

 

What?  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’ll just put this here to demonstrate how non-responsive it was to my post. 

 

And BTW, do you have any idea how many times ALL of the so-called experts are completely wrong regarding draft picks?  

 

Most of the "experts" merely recycle others' analyses.  No one has the kind of time to spend hours reviewing hundreds of draftees in the kind of detail that's required.  That's why I only do them after the draft typically.  I only care about our picks.  

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If they wanted Kincaid, it was definitely necessary as he was as close of a lock as there is in a draft to go to Dallas.  So it honestly strictly comes down to how they felt about Kincaid, and they definitely stated he was their guy.  Beane also stated if Kincaid was gone, they had a trade back in place because none of the other players had first round grades on his board.  

 

Leading up to the draft I kept saying Dallas was a problem and the Giants at 25 make sense for his to move up to and it would cost exactly a 4th this year.  And the reason I said Dallas was a problem was because any of the offensive players people thought we might covet if they fell near us were also going to be guys on Dallas's board too.  Bijan for example, Kincaid obviously, or also even one of the WR's...all depending on how the board fell.

 

The board fell in a way where there was only one obvious player sticking out and that was Kincaid.  Now some can differ on whether or not Kincaid should have been their guy, but based on them being Beanes target when the 25th pick came up, he had to make that move to get him IMHO. Personally, I agree that he was the BPA on the board, so I was fine with them going after the best player. 

 

Just hope Dorsey gets this kid the ball now.  

If what you are saying is true about a trade back then I think Beane should have done that.  By not moving back it forced another reach on a small ILB in the third round.  Assuming they trade back into the top of the second round and picked up a 3rd it would have been worth it.  In that scenario they still get a TE, they probably get an OT instead of an OG, and they add an edge or DT in the first 100 picks.

All that said, Kincaid if used properly should help right away and a fourth round talent might not even make the roster at this point unless you part ways with Basham or Epenesa. 

[Alphadawg7]

48 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

If what you are saying is true about a trade back then I think Beane should have done that.  By not moving back it forced another reach on a small ILB in the third round.  Assuming they trade back into the top of the second round and picked up a 3rd it would have been worth it.  In that scenario they still get a TE, they probably get an OT instead of an OG, and they add an edge or DT in the first 100 picks.

All that said, Kincaid if used properly should help right away and a fourth round talent might not even make the roster at this point unless you part ways with Basham or Epenesa. 

It is true, he had a trade back in place with the Titans who wanted Levis.  But once Kincaid fell they decided to go get him.  

Edited April 29, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Brand J]

Unless it’s for a QB you absolutely believe in, I’m not a fan of trading up and giving away picks. Bills needed help on OL, DL, and at LB and traded up in the first to select… a TE. When there’s already one on the roster who doesn’t get targeted enough.
 

Of course I’m all for Kincaid to ball out and I hope he does, but if I was GM I’m keeping my picks and staying pat or trading down. There’s lots of talent, numerous players we could select at any given pick in rounds 1-3 and the more ammo you have to get those guys, the better. You gotta hit on the picks though and Beane has only selected one blue chip talent.

[T master]

Given who was available at the time of the Bills pick I (As a fan) thought it was a waste of another pick . This year the "Experts" were calling this a very deep class as far as the TE position was concerned & it has been said that Kinkaid is not a true TE more of a WR in a TE position .

 

I'm sure Beane knows must more than i do about players but IMHO i hope this guy is used more in the scheme & Quinton Morris showed excellent hands last year & they didn't use him (or Knox) & he is about the same as far as height & weight as Kinkaid & if they do use him as much as Morris it will be a waste of a pick .

 

Given all that was known about the Bills roster & their needs going in (In my place as a fan) i'm not sure about the picks so far I know you don't go in looking for players for need but i guess it's a good thing that i'm not our GM which i'm sure you all would agree .

We got a TE that's not a true TE more of a WR 

We got a O linemen that's a better fit for the run game than a pass blocker - And there were some very good centers available at our pick 

We got a OLB that did play some ILB in college - A very good Safety was there at our pick in Battle from Ala . & another Ala player was there Henry To'oTo'o Which was a ILB .

 

I do trust Beane so in my true fandom i hope that these players will be able to be good picks for the team & it's future . That being said i've already read where if Ocyrus lateral movement isn't good he could be a after thought some what like the last Bills second round O linemen Cody Ford they picked .

 

Heard that Kinkaids blocking is much less than desirable & the LB er is smaller & may be better for ST's 🙏 ...

[Meatloaf63]

16 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

They said they had the DT from Michigan higher than any TE which also means they probably didn't have Kincaid #1 out of the TE's. The only person that said they wanted Kincaid was Skip Bayless who has no affiliation with the team, he was just hoping they would get him as a fan 

Lol if you watched them spaz out after we picked you would know they are lying to save face. They took too long to make that pick to have been settled on the DT…

[Scott7975]

Yes it was necessary.  Beane obviously targeted this guy and wanted him if he fell close enough to make a reasonable trade up.  By reasonable I mean not giving up 2nds and next years 1sts and stuff like that.  I also feel like he can be a really good weapon for us if Dorsey is a good OC and Josh utilizes the talent around him.  We needed a sure hands guy like this.  Someone you can count on to get open and catch the ball.

 

If he works out or not, who knows but the right potential is there.  There are no guarantees in the draft.  I don't mind our GM trading picks for players they covet.  Dallas obviously wanted him.  Josh has talent around him now.  He also has the capability to get the ball to anyone, anywhere on the field.  I want to see Josh and Dorsey utilize this talent now.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Scott7975

[KDIGGZ]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Lol if you watched them spaz out after we picked you would know they are lying to save face. They took too long to make that pick to have been settled on the DT…

I didn't see it no, where is the video of this? I have not seen that reported either

[Meatloaf63]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

I didn't see it no, where is the video of this? I have not seen that reported either

Guess you were not paying attention then.

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Meatloaf63 said:

Guess you were not paying attention then.

Post it or show me an article that says this. From what I have seen out of Dallas, they got their guy 

[Chaos]

It is good to see over 90% of responders to this poll have a clue.