Singletary—inarguably above average statistically: discuss

[Niagara Dude]

3 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Here we go with the 40 time obsession.  Way overblown.  Yes, better to be faster than slower, but RBs very rarely just run straight through gaping holes.  They need to have vision, ability to avoid or run through tackles - both of which Singletary does well.  No doubt, there are occasions when, after he has gotten to the open field with the above mentioned skills, he gets caught where a speedier player might have gotten more yardage, but I think it is unrealistic to think that there are tons and tons of yards left on the field due to that.  Singletary is a good starting RB is he perfect? No, but neither are most other RBs.

 

There is considerably more to being a good NFL player than straight line speed.

Do you even understand anything about burst to the line?  probably not.  Why do you think Allen is running so much and taking so many hits,  with teams loading up against the pass the running game is there.  They have not had a starting level RB in years,  Singletary relies on quickness and making guys miss.  That is not going to happen against most NFL defensive players.  He is an average RB and no team will offer him a contract because of it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Inarguably is a bit strong. But yeah, probably a bit above average. He's always among the leaders in missed tackles and he does very well at YPA despite an OL that is probably below average.

 

He's a good player. Not great, but good. Wouldn't be surprised to see them bring him back, based largely on what the price ends up being.

 

 

 

You don't need to be fast. You need to be effective.

 

Motor is effective.

 

How about you Singletary supporters explain if he was so good and it's all on the line why no other teams are interested.  Sure resign him at league min,  but if they want to improve on offence they need a starting level RB so were not asking our QB to run the ball and expose him to hits.

[skibum]

Singletary, Cook, and Hines compliment each other well. Singletary can run between the tackles, Cook and Hines can go around the outside, and Hines can catch. I think it's a pretty good RB group. The biggest issue last year was that Cook took 2/3 of a season to get it together. If he comes out strong this year, Singletary will become option B and we will all be happy.  

[thenorthremembers]

5'7 206 with fumbling issues.   I'd be surprised if he is back.

[Thurman#1]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

 

How about you Singletary supporters explain if he was so good and it's all on the line why no other teams are interested.  Sure resign him at league min,  but if they want to improve on offence they need a starting level RB so were not asking our QB to run the ball and expose him to hits.

 

 

Yeah, that's a straw man and a wild exaggeration. Could you please point out to me where I said that "it's all on the line"? No, you can't, because I didn't say that. 

 

If you want to answer me, reply to what I actually said.

 

As for me explaining , sure, I'll explain it when you explain how you know that "no other teams are interested." Are you Singletary? His agent? His mother? I presume not. So you haven't a clue, anymore than I do. But I didn't pretend I did.

 

What you know is that he hasn't signed a contract. And there are many possible reasons for that, most particularly money disagreements and the teams trying to wait guys out to drop their prices. 

 

Hundreds more players will be signed. Singletary could easily be one of them.

 

They do need another starting level RB. Perhaps even two. Re-signing Singletary for a salary that they could both agree on would absolutely provide one.

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

672 carries in 4 years is really not a lot at all though and he’s never had 900 yards in his career. So  That’s an average of 10 carries a game basically over that span . Josh Jacobs alone last year had 340 lol.

 

My point is: He is only getting 10 carries a game, which is going to keep him more fresh/efficient.

 

He runs a lot against light boxes. And he didn’t get a ton of short yardage carries.

 

You add all that up and it makes sense why is YPC is good.
 

Give him 15-20 carries a game like a typical starting RB, and couple that with going against more 8 man fronts/short yardage carries? inarguably his YPC would drop significantly 

The Bengals game was a perfect example of not having a starting level RB with both size and burst.  Thurman Thomas was not some blazing fast RB,  but he had excellent burst into the line.  Singletary does not have any burst and that average is based on limited touches and teams loading up against the pass. I want to see the Bills get a legit starting RB and stop this nonsense of exposing our star QB Allen to taking so many hits because they are using him to run the ball.  Why are passing teams like KC and the Bengals able to run the football.  

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, that's a straw man and a wild exaggeration. Could you please point out to me where I said that "it's all on the line"? No, you can't, because I didn't say that. 

 

If you want to answer me, reply to what I actually said.

 

As for me explaining , sure, I'll explain it when you explain how you know that "no other teams are interested." Are you Singletary? His agent? His mother? I presume not. So you haven't a clue, anymore than I do. But I didn't pretend I did.

 

What you know is that he hasn't signed a contract. And there are many possible reasons for that, most particularly money disagreements and the teams trying to wait guys out to drop their prices. 

 

Hundreds more players will be signed. Singletary could easily be one of them.

 

They do need another starting level RB. Perhaps even two. Re-signing Singletary for a salary that they could both agree on would absolutely provide one.

How about you explain our playoff game,  are you going to now say the Bengals missing 3 starters in our playoff game had a better offensive line to run the ball or just better running backs.  Joe Mixon is both big and fast (4.45 forty) and he was able to get bigs runs behind a line of 3 backups.  

 

No, there is no NFL team signing or interested in Singletary as a longterm commitment.  Do you hear about him visiting any teams,  if he was so great and in demand you would hear something.  

 

Sure maybe a team would sign him for depth purposes on some one year prove it contract but he never getting any huge guaranteed longer term deal. Maybe explain why Allen needs to run so much on designed run calls and you don't see designed runs for either Burrows or Mahomes. 

 

Get a starting RB and stop this nonsense with Allen, we don't need a Cam Newton situation.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Always loved Motor. He's worth much much that what teams are valuing him at. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Always loved Motor. He's worth much much that what teams are valuing him at. 

So everyone else in the league is clueless?  

[Niagara Dude]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

5'7 206 with fumbling issues.   I'd be surprised if he is back.

He is a solid backup and until they upgrade the position they are risking the longterm left of Allen.  No more designed runs ,  at least not until the playoffs.

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

So everyone else in the league is clueless?  

There are zero teams talking about bringing him in for a visit,  he is a depth player who if he does not resign with the Bills will sign some league min deal with another team and be playing special teams.

 

 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

He’s so good he’s still on the market and will be lucky to get 2 million guaranteed. 

[2003Contenders]

BB indicated that the team is looking for a power back, which Singletary is not. To me that leaves the following options:

 

1. Davis or Hunt are about all that are left in free agency

2. Trade for Henry

3. Draft a big back in the middle rounds

 

I suppose with the RB market drying up the way it has and DS remaining unsigned, the Bills could be interested in bringing him back at a bargain price -- but I think they would still be looking for a power back, most likely in the draft in this situation.

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Do you even understand anything about burst to the line?  probably not.  Why do you think Allen is running so much and taking so many hits,  with teams loading up against the pass the running game is there.  They have not had a starting level RB in years,  Singletary relies on quickness and making guys miss.  That is not going to happen against most NFL defensive players.  He is an average RB and no team will offer him a contract because of it.

 

 

 

Oh, and Allen is running so much and taking so many hits for several reasons, one of which is that a QB run gives you a one-man advantage, which an RB run does not. It's easier. That's surely a great deal of the reason they call lots of QB runs despite having RBs who are often successful when they run.

 

Not to mention that many of his runs come from scrambles that turn into runs.

 

And Singletary does indeed rely on quickness and making guys miss. That's why he is consistently in the top four in the NFL of forcing missed tackles.

 

 

2021 7th at missed tackles per attempt %age

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-most-elusive-running-backs-2021-season

 

 

2022 5th at missed tackles per attempt %age

https://www.rotoballer.com/fantasy-football-running-back-sleepers-missed-tackles-2022/995606#Missed_Tackles_Forced_Data    (see graph)

 

 

2019 2nd at missed tackles per attempt %age

"[Singletary] forced 0.25 missed tackles per attempt, second-best in the league. "

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-backfield-rankings-all-32-running-back-units-entering-the-2020-nfl-season

 

 

2022 6th at broken+missed tackles forced %age

https://www.fantasypros.com/2022/07/rb-broken-plus-missed-tackles-forced-percentage-analysis-2022-fantasy-football-javonte-williams-elijah-mitchell-ezekiel-elliott/

 

 

Your idea that he can't force missed tackles, that, "that is not going to happen against most NFL defensive players" is just plain wrong.

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

10 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Respectfully to Devin, no thank you.

 

this offense MUST add players that are legit threats and scare opposing defenses.

 

 

Looks like the rest of the NFL agrees with you. 

[Thurman#1]

21 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

How about you explain our playoff game,  are you going to now say the Bengals missing 3 starters in our playoff game had a better offensive line to run the ball or just better running backs.  Joe Mixon is both big and fast (4.45 forty) and he was able to get bigs runs behind a line of 3 backups.  

 

No, there is no NFL team signing or interested in Singletary as a longterm commitment.  Do you hear about him visiting any teams,  if he was so great and in demand you would hear something.  

 

Sure maybe a team would sign him for depth purposes on some one year prove it contract but he never getting any huge guaranteed longer term deal. Maybe explain why Allen needs to run so much on designed run calls and you don't see designed runs for either Burrows or Mahomes. 

 

Get a starting RB and stop this nonsense with Allen, we don't need a Cam Newton situation.

 

 

Jeez, this is getting sad, dude. You want me to explain the playoff game? In a Singletary thread? Including apparently expecting me to explain how the Bills DL sucked while missing its two best players?  Yeah, sorry, not going to do all that. You'll have to figure that out yourself. Though, I'm not hopeful.

 

Extremely quick version: the whole Bills team sucked, they looked like they were absolutely emotionally drained from seeing Hamlin die and all the rest of the chaos this season. As for whether the blame was mostly on Singletary or the line, yeah, Singletary went 6 for 25 in that game. Which is not bad. Whereas Cook went 5 for 13. Allen was 8 for 26. But you're going to argue the Bills OL was good and Singletary was bad? Sorry again, dude, that is too obvious to require much explanation. Everyone was bad in that game. But the OL had a large large share of the blame.

 

You're just continuously wrong here, and not willng to admit it.

 

No, I didn't hear of Singletary visiting any teams. I also didn't hear Connor McGovern visit any teams, including us. It's not an opinion that you don't have a clue whether any teams are interested. It's a simple fact. Whether or not you get that.\

 

We've got a starting RB now in Cook. And if we bring back Singletary - not saying we will, but if we do - we'll have another, though my guess is that this year Cook will get more carries even if Singletary does come back.

 

Honestly, you're just throwing out arguments at this point that don't make much sense. I'm not promising to answer another, though I'll take a quick look.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

I love motor, but I don't actually think the YPC is the tell all here. In 2020 he was he was nearly identical to Zack Moss, only to nearly beat him by a full yard in 2021, only to get nearly doubled by James Cook in 2022. Now I would expect Motor to have beat Moss by a considerable margin. Moss was always the short yardage guy. That just wasn't ALWAYS the case. He did outperform in YPC, but it was hit in miss given the context of when they ran the ball. Then Cook just destroyed everybody last year. Motor is very difficult in 10 yards. He is a good back. That said, I think the Motor (and the Bills) high YPC is more a result of Allen, the passing game, and our historical refusal to run the ball. If we became more run oriented as a whole I would not expect to see the YPC in this area. You see this exact statistical pattern play out consistently against pass heavy teams. It's normal for the YPC to be high. Texas Tech for example in college and the Chiefs have likely been the NFL's best example. 

Edited March 17 by KzooMike

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Looks like the rest of the NFL agrees with you. 

 

 

You do know that more free agents will be signed after than have been signed so far, right? 

 

Whether you like it or not, it's a poor argument. If he hasn't been signed in August and September, it will at that time be a very good argument. Now, though, it's just bad.

[HeHateMe]

Do not want him back, get better players.

[Thrivefourfive]

I think it’s unquestioned that most love the guy. He plays hard and fights for yardage. He looks good in spots, stretches. I like it when it’s in the game. I know he gets twice as much out of it than he should. Testament to HIM.

If he had the speed, this wouldn’t be a topic because the Bills wouldn’t be in a quandary of IF to pay him.. It would be WHAT to pay him. This is nobody’s fault. Singletary just isn’t a game changing back worth keeping instead of attempting to get more explosive on offense.
 

Remember that Dalvin Cook 80 yard touchdown last year that came out of nowhere and in hindsight pretty much blindsided the Bills. Bills need that, or die trying to find it. 
 

Feel for Singletary, Beane might be looking at this as a Good bye, but no other team is taking him, so it’s a release, and he signs for dirt cheap on another squad. Wish him the best. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You do know that more free agents will be signed after than have been signed so far, right? 

 

Whether you like it or not, it's a poor argument. If he hasn't been signed in August and September, it will at that time be a very good argument. Now, though, it's just bad.

He should get eventually signed and most likely back with the Bills but seeing all the movements at RB it tells me he’s not highly thought of as a running back in the NFL. I posted a thread on him not being a starter next yr and it looks like I’m going to be right. 

[extrahammer]

I'll say this re: Singletary... 

 

He's better than Zack Moss.