Davis Webb

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm guessing here, but I'd bet a beer that it's No Such Thing.

 

Isn't Wilson the one who has his own entourage - mental coach, mechanics coach, massage therapist, trainer - and insisted on bringing them into the building?

 

My guess is that the reason the Broncos went for someone relatively inexperienced is to get someone who won't butt heads with those guys or with Wilson, but who will be high-energy about helping Wilson with anything he wants to do, chopping film up however Wilson wants it chopped, and super tactful with anything he points out instead of lacing it with ego.

 

Webb would probably fit the needs of that package (see what I did there?  and yeah I know it was Joe)

That PFT excerpt totally misunderstands the difference between coaching and players. For example, Great golf coaches  aren’t elite pro-level players. But they understand the mechanics and how to convey information a lot of times a lot better than the pros they coach. 
 

I don’t think the broncos would just hire some lackey. I bet Webb is coming in there to be a legit coach, imo. 

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

That PFT excerpt totally misunderstands the difference between coaching and players. For example, Great golf coaches  aren’t elite pro-level players. But they understand the mechanics and how to convey information a lot of times a lot better than the pros they coach. 
 

I don’t think the broncos would just hire some lackey. I bet Webb is coming in there to be a legit coach, imo. 

It's what George Bernard Shaw said:  "Those who can, do; those who cannot, teach."  

 

And...they teach those who can.

[AuntieEm]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:00 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good for him. It’s also wild that guys can just get nfl jobs over guys who have been grinding for years. The best is when he gets a head coaching job for “fixing” a guy who was considered a borderline top 5 qb before last season. 

 

You're assuming Russell Wilson can be fixed I don't think he is.  He was in the right situation in Seattle  and he wasn't the reason for the Seahawks success he played a part but wasn't the reason.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm guessing here, but I'd bet a beer that it's No Such Thing.

 

Isn't Wilson the one who has his own entourage - mental coach, mechanics coach, massage therapist, trainer - and insisted on bringing them into the building?

 

My guess is that the reason the Broncos went for someone relatively inexperienced is to get someone who won't butt heads with those guys or with Wilson, but who will be high-energy about helping Wilson with anything he wants to do, chopping film up however Wilson wants it chopped, and super tactful with anything he points out instead of lacing it with ego.

 

Webb would probably fit the needs of that package (see what I did there?  and yeah I know it was Joe)

 

I know there was some hubbub when Payton first got to Denver. At the very least he said that Russ's people wouldn't be allowed in. Not that it could have been "new coach lip service" and of course there is nothing saying Wilson can't meet with his own people on his own time....but at least in the building it appears that Webb is the guy in charge of the room. And it doesn't appear Payton wants to be hand in hand with Wilson's team. 

 

Of course all that is subject to change even if you take these statements at face value.

[Doc]

Webb will be available shortly as a coach...

[DCofNC]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:10 PM, chongli said:

Excerpt from PFT article linked above:

 

"Wilson has started 189 games in his NFL career. Webb has started one game, the Giants’ meaningless Week 18 game at the end of last season. But Broncos coach Sean Payton apparently thinks the 28-year-old Webb can teach the 34-year-old Wilson about the quarterback position."

 

At this point, I’d probably be willing to play Webb over Wilson. 
 

In all seriousness though, the lesser talented guys have to learn the fine points of the game more to have any shot, so he may be an absolute wealth of knowledge.

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

I know there was some hubbub when Payton first got to Denver. At the very least he said that Russ's people wouldn't be allowed in. Not that it could have been "new coach lip service" and of course there is nothing saying Wilson can't meet with his own people on his own time....but at least in the building it appears that Webb is the guy in charge of the room. And it doesn't appear Payton wants to be hand in hand with Wilson's team. 

 

Of course all that is subject to change even if you take these statements at face value.

 

Ball has been fumbled. Link on Kansas City has been fumbled.

 

OOPS... Unfortunately, we are unable to locate the page you requested. Please check the web address you entered and try again.

Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/partners/article272193588.html#storylink=cpy

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Ball has been fumbled. Link on Kansas City has been fumbled.

 

OOPS... Unfortunately, we are unable to locate the page you requested. Please check the web address you entered and try again.

Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/partners/article272193588.html#storylink=cpy

Weird. Opened for me. Maybe this one's better. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/seattle-seahawks-russell-wilson-personal-team-booted-out-new-denver-broncos-coach-sean-payton

 

"That's foreign to me," new coach Sean Payton said in his first meeting this week with the Denver media. "That's not going to take place here. I'm not familiar with it, but our staff will be here. Our players will be here.

"And that'll be it."

[Poleshifter]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:24 AM, Mr. WEO said:

Someday, we will all finally come to understand the genius of John Elway...

Every time John Elway’s name comes up, I think of how he passed on drafting Josh Allen, and took Bradley Chubb instead.

 

Not a great GM.

 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Poleshifter said:

Every time John Elway’s name comes up, I think of how he passed on drafting Josh Allen, and took Bradley Chubb instead.

 

Not a great GM.

 

Doug Whaley syndrome. Missed on a QB too recently and was afraid to take another shot.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

I know there was some hubbub when Payton first got to Denver. At the very least he said that Russ's people wouldn't be allowed in. Not that it could have been "new coach lip service" and of course there is nothing saying Wilson can't meet with his own people on his own time....but at least in the building it appears that Webb is the guy in charge of the room. And it doesn't appear Payton wants to be hand in hand with Wilson's team. 

 

Of course all that is subject to change even if you take these statements at face value.

 

I can see Payton's point. 

 

It's not as bad as Brady with his fitness guru/trainer Alex Guerrero, where he and Guerrero had their own company but he was allowed access to the Patriots facility and even use of the rooms and equipment, and players said they felt pressured to sign up with Guerrero or that Guerrero would contradict instructions from the Patriots trainers/S&C staff

 

At least, as far as we know.

 

But I can 100% see not wanting an independent parallel staff for the QB.

 

I do wonder if it will "stick" though.

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

Every time John Elway’s name comes up, I think of how he passed on drafting Josh Allen, and took Bradley Chubb instead.

 

Not a great GM.

 

Yeah, that was unforgivable, but at least Elway squeezed a first round pick out of the Dolphins for Chubb, who is JAG…

[BuffaloBillyG]

41 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I can see Payton's point. 

 

It's not as bad as Brady with his fitness guru/trainer Alex Guerrero, where he and Guerrero had their own company but he was allowed access to the Patriots facility and even use of the rooms and equipment, and players said they felt pressured to sign up with Guerrero or that Guerrero would contradict instructions from the Patriots trainers/S&C staff

 

At least, as far as we know.

 

But I can 100% see not wanting an independent parallel staff for the QB.

 

I do wonder if it will "stick" though.

Yea I agree. That whole Brady/Guerrero situation was...weird. Somewhat surprised that Belichick would allow that much leeway in his building.... unless Kraft overruled him.

 

Payton always struck me as a real smug guy. There really aren't many coaches I have a lower personal opinion on...so I may be bias😂. Wouldn't shock me if push came to shove Russ is scapegoat number one for him next season. 

[k2mountain]

This thread started 7 months ago. Who is the guilty party who necromanced (brought back from the dead) it?

[Beck Water]

 

27 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yea I agree. That whole Brady/Guerrero situation was...weird. Somewhat surprised that Belichick would allow that much leeway in his building.... unless Kraft overruled him.

 

I thought Belichick pretty much had to put up with it?  That Kraft was paying Brady under the table by funneling money into the TB12 training facility owned by Brady and Guerrero?  Until Guerrero went too far by flat out telling certain players to not follow Patriots medical team advice, and Brady went too far by pretty much telling players to get treatment with Guerrero if they wanted his attention?

 

27 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Payton always struck me as a real smug guy. There really aren't many coaches I have a lower personal opinion on...so I may be bias😂. Wouldn't shock me if push came to shove Russ is scapegoat number one for him next season. 

 

Well...the Broncos surely didn't trade for Wilson and pay him the big bucks so they could sit in the cellar of the AFC West.  The current storyline is, it's not Russ Wilson's fault, Nathaniel Hackett was a mess.  So I wouldn't give odds against Wilson being Scapegoat Number 1.

 

Payton's ethical standards can be described in one word:  Bountygate

 

 

[Punching Bag]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I thought Belichick pretty much had to put up with it?  That Kraft was paying Brady under the table by funneling money into the TB12 training facility owned by Brady and Guerrero?  Until Guerrero went too far by flat out telling certain players to not follow Patriots medical team advice, and Brady went too far by pretty much telling players to get treatment with Guerrero if they wanted his attention?

 

 

When Guerrero went to far was also period when Beli-CHEAT also wanted to trade Br*dy but Krafty refused. 

 

The Sith disciple surpassed the master.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, MJS said:

People do NOT have to be able to do something in order to teach it. Tons of coaches have never played much football, and yet they teach complex schemes and plays to players. Offensive line coaches don't have to be former offensive linemen. Linebackers coaches do not have to be former linebackers.

 

Knowledge of what you are teaching is required, but it doesn't have to be first hand knowledge. Does it potentially help? Yes. But it is not required.

 

There are so many examples outside of football too.

 

how many QB coaches never played QB?

[BuffaloBillyG]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

how many QB coaches never played QB?

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought it was an interesting question so I looked it up.

 

Bills-Joe Brady- WR

Patriots -BOB-Linebacker

Browns-Ashton Grant - WR

Steelers-Mike Sullivan -DB

Titans-Charles London-RB

Cardinals -Israel Woolfork-WR

 

There were 2 more teams that didn't officially have a QB coach (both have former QBs as OC, so double duty is likely there)

[Captain Hindsight]

6 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

Every time John Elway’s name comes up, I think of how he passed on drafting Josh Allen, and took Bradley Chubb instead.

 

Not a great GM.

 

Well he had Case Keenum at 20 million a year 

[AuntieEm]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

Doug Whaley syndrome. Missed on a QB too recently and was afraid to take another shot.

 

 

Also maybe didn't want a qb that was possibly a better talent than he was. He doesn't want to see his records for Broncos broken.

 

 

 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

 

Also maybe didn't want a qb that was possibly a better talent than he was. He doesn't want to see his records for Broncos broken.

 

 

 

He signed Peyton Manning 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

He signed Peyton Manning 

 

Yea a beaten up Peyton.  Not any serious threat to his franchise records.  

[Sierra Foothills]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:01 PM, HOUSE said:

Davis Webb is now the Best QB in Denver....congrats

 

This was a good laugh.

 

I actually like Jarrett Stidham quite a bit and wouldn't be surprised if he started some games for the Broncos.

 

 

On 2/23/2023 at 3:02 PM, The Wiz said:

Those who can't do, teach.  Those who can't teach, worked their way up through someone's coaching tree over 15-20 years.

 

The times I saw Davis Webb play QB he was always in reverse... moving away from the line of scrimmage. He never learned to climb the pocket but it looks like he's climbing the coaching ladder.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 3:33 PM, Success said:

Sorry - drinking too early. I was thinking of Joe Webb. Colts game a few years ago.

 

On 2/23/2023 at 3:42 PM, K-9 said:

No worries. Confusing Webbs is easy enough to do while sober. 

 

Little-known fact... Davis Webb is the brother of touring pro Ty Webb.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought it was an interesting question so I looked it up.

 

Bills-Joe Brady- WR

Patriots -BOB-Linebacker

Browns-Ashton Grant - WR

Steelers-Mike Sullivan -DB

Titans-Charles London-RB

Cardinals -Israel Woolfork-WR

 

There were 2 more teams that didn't officially have a QB coach (both have former QBs as OC, so double duty is likely there)

 

The results in AZ, NE, Cleveland speak for themselves.  I'm not sure what a non QB could offer top 5 franchise QB or a rookie/soph QB.

[Don Otreply]

20 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm guessing here, but I'd bet a beer that it's No Such Thing.

 

Isn't Wilson the one who has his own entourage - mental coach, mechanics coach, massage therapist, trainer - and insisted on bringing them into the building?

 

My guess is that the reason the Broncos went for someone relatively inexperienced is to get someone who won't butt heads with those guys or with Wilson, but who will be high-energy about helping Wilson with anything he wants to do, chopping film up however Wilson wants it chopped, and super tactful with anything he points out instead of lacing it with ego.

 

Webb would probably fit the needs of that package (see what I did there?  and yeah I know it was Joe)

Iirc, the new HC said something to the effect that all that entourage stuff / private office at the facility isn’t happening while he is HC, how true that turns out to be…, 

[thenorthremembers]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The results in AZ, NE, Cleveland speak for themselves.  I'm not sure what a non QB could offer top 5 franchise QB or a rookie/soph QB.

Kind if a myopic take.    First and foremost the sample size you have here is small.  Belichick I believe was a long snapper and ended up being one of the best defensive minds ever.   

 

Position doesn't always correlate to interest, its predetermined by size and athletic ability.   Not to mention a coach who may be completely wrong in his assessment of where you should play.

 

Just because you played linebacker in high school and college doesn't mean your interest wasn't on the offensive side of the ball.   Wideouts and DBs, at least in my mind can help a young qb because they can reverse engineer the position.  

 

I think you're grossly underestimating a NFL level coach's knowledge of every aspect of the game, based on a few outcomes.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Kind if a myopic take.    First and foremost the sample size you have here is small.  Belichick I believe was a long snapper and ended up being one of the best defensive minds ever.   

 

Position doesn't always correlate to interest, its predetermined by size and athletic ability.   Not to mention a coach who may be completely wrong in his assessment of where you should play.

 

Just because you played linebacker in high school and college doesn't mean your interest wasn't on the offensive side of the ball.   Wideouts and DBs, at least in my mind can help a young qb because they can reverse engineer the position.  

 

I think you're grossly underestimating a NFL level coach's knowledge of every aspect of the game, based on a few outcomes.

 

I have been very specific that i only considered the QB position.  Young QB needs to learn the sped of the game, read defenses and, maybe most of all these days for guys coming out in dya 1 or 2 rounds with less starting in college, their mechanics. Don't see how a long snapper, LB or WR can deliver that.

[thenorthremembers]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I have been very specific that i only considered the QB position.  Young QB needs to learn the sped of the game, read defenses and, maybe most of all these days for guys coming out in dya 1 or 2 rounds with less starting in college, their mechanics. Don't see how a long snapper, LB or WR can deliver that.

You don't think a linebacker can tell you how to read a defense?   You don't think a WR can tell a rookie QB where to find holes in a zone or auto adjust the depth of a route based on coverages?

 

Like I said before these guys that become coaches aren't simply limited to what position they played football.   I can't stand Belichick, I think his superbowl success was largely based on having Brady.  But outside of being a Longsnapper the guy probably knows more about the history of the X's and O's of football than most anyone on Earth.

Edited September 4, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[BuffaloBillyG]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The results in AZ, NE, Cleveland speak for themselves.  I'm not sure what a non QB could offer top 5 franchise QB or a rookie/soph QB.

In fairness, the QB coaches in Arizona and NE are in their first year this season with the team in that capacity. 

 

The Browns  Grant took over last year and while Watson looked like a pile of dung, let's not forget Jacoby Brissett actually looked like a suitable QB under Grant's coaching last year.

[Beck Water]

49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The results in AZ, NE, Cleveland speak for themselves.  I'm not sure what a non QB could offer top 5 franchise QB or a rookie/soph QB.

 

Um...you don't yet know what the results in NE under Bill O'Brien as QB coach will be, right?

The Patriots haven't yet played a game with O'Brien as OC and Mac as QB.  ( @BuffaloBillyGOBrien is a dual role, as well, OC and QB coach)

 

So are we wondering what Joe Brady offers Josh Allen as a non-QB coaching a top 5 franchise QB?

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Um...you don't yet know what the results in NE under Bill O'Brien as QB coach will be, right?

The Patriots haven't yet played a game with O'Brien as OC and Mac as QB.  ( @BuffaloBillyGOBrien is a dual role, as well, OC and QB coach)

 

So are we wondering what Joe Brady offers Josh Allen as a non-QB coaching a top 5 franchise QB?

 

 

Yes, a duels role for sure. And a likely step up from Joe Judge last season🤣🤣

[Sierra Foothills]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought it was an interesting question so I looked it up.

 

Bills-Joe Brady- WR

Patriots -BOB-Linebacker

Browns-Ashton Grant - WR

Steelers-Mike Sullivan -DB

Titans-Charles London-RB

Cardinals -Israel Woolfork-WR

 

There were 2 more teams that didn't officially have a QB coach (both have former QBs as OC, so double duty is likely there)

 

Kudos to you looking up no QB playing QB coaches. That had to have taken a bit of time.

 

Interestingly (at least to me), the two people considered the most brilliant offensive minds in the NFL, Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan didn't play QB either.

 

Reid was an O-lineman and Shanahan was a wide receiver.

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

You don't think a linebacker can tell you how to read a defense?   You don't think a WR can tell a rookie QB where to find holes in a zone or auto adjust the depth of a route based on coverages?

 

Like I said before these guys that become coaches aren't simply limited to what position they played football.   I can't stand Belichick, I think his superbowl success was largely based on having Brady.  But outside of being a Longsnapper the guy probably knows more about the history of the X's and O's of football than most anyone on Earth.

 

I'm sure they can.  But there's a lot more a young QB needs to learn in the NFL.  That's different from any other position.  

 

Brady was key to NE's success, but BB created NFL Brady to a large degree.  And he won 6 rings surrounding him with a lot of guys he throw away and replace.  Under how many HC's would Brady have become the GOAT?

56 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Um...you don't yet know what the results in NE under Bill O'Brien as QB coach will be, right?

The Patriots haven't yet played a game with O'Brien as OC and Mac as QB.  ( @BuffaloBillyGOBrien is a dual role, as well, OC and QB coach)

 

So are we wondering what Joe Brady offers Josh Allen as a non-QB coaching a top 5 franchise QB?

 

 

 

I can't comment on the future of O'Brien/Mac.  Wasn't my point. Sure it might work out.  Or it could just be O'Brien assuming he can do it all.  We know how that has worked out...

 

I'm sure Brady helps Josh with certain things.  Intrinsically, I'm not sure how he helps him with the nuts and bolts of the mechanics of throwing, moving around and out of the pocket, etc. Not sure if he even needs to at this point. Josh is a 5th year vet. 

[FireChans]

9 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Yea a beaten up Peyton.  Not any serious threat to his franchise records.  

Peyton set the season TD record in Denver.

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm sure they can.  But there's a lot more a young QB needs to learn in the NFL.  That's different from any other position.  

 

Brady was key to NE's success, but BB created NFL Brady to a large degree.  And he won 6 rings surrounding him with a lot of guys he throw away and replace.  Under how many HC's would Brady have become the GOAT?

 

I can't comment on the future of O'Brien/Mac.  Wasn't my point. Sure it might work out.  Or it could just be O'Brien assuming he can do it all.  We know how that has worked out...

 

I'm sure Brady helps Josh with certain things.  Intrinsically, I'm not sure how he helps him with the nuts and bolts of the mechanics of throwing, moving around and out of the pocket, etc. Not sure if he even needs to at this point. Josh is a 5th year vet. 

More than one, and I say that with tremendous respect for BB and that he’s the GOAT coach.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Peyton set the season TD record in Denver.

More than one, and I say that with tremendous respect for BB and that he’s the GOAT coach.

 

More than 1 HC could or has taken a 6th round QB to 9 SBs and 6 SB wins?

 

 

Look how many have been hired and fired over that 20 year period. 

[FireChans]

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

More than 1 HC could or has taken a 6th round QB to 9 SBs and 6 SB wins?

 

 

Look how many have been hired and fired over that 20 year period. 

I don’t know if anyone has the exact same success as BB/Brady but I do think other NFL coaches could’ve been in charge long enough for him to be the GOAT.

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Peyton set the season TD record in Denver.

More than one, and I say that with tremendous respect for BB and that he’s the GOAT coach.

Maybe true once Brady was a vet and had a couple rings thanks to learning g under BB.  Both Bb and Brady were not afraid to test the limits of what the league allowed them to get away with  and the league did cater a bit to the young star amid s bleak empty wasteland of other qb pick failures of all types.   Josh Allen would be getting that same favoritism if not for the recent success of other young qbs picking up the slack of injecting more capable qb play that was in short supply just a handful of years ago.   As mahomes then Allen,  Even Geno Smith finding his old college proficiency looks better in Seattle under a competent offensive coach.

Had the Jets had the right coaches when they drafted Gene he could of made noise earlier and challenged Brady.  

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, AuntieEm said:

Had the Jets had the right coaches when they drafted Gene he could of made noise earlier and challenged Brady.  

 

JEST could not challenge Cheats without the equivalent of an Ernie Adams.

[AuntieEm]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I don’t know if anyone has the exact same success as BB/Brady but I do think other NFL coaches could’ve been in charge long enough for him to be the GOAT.

A few indeed come to mind for me as well...  Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, I'd even have expected some good play with Chan Gailey and Brady.  Just those coaches just knew how to maximize a qb strengths.  Just not sure how much the league would have let slide in another franchise.  Reid with Brady in Philly I think wins s sb  there easily  over having McNabb. And iliked McNabb  just for whatever reason he just didn't generate the buzz Brady did. 

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

JEST could not challenge Cheats without the equivalent of an Ernie Adams.

 I disagree replace Rex and  mark Sanchez with say a Pete Carroll or Andy Reid and there be some changes in the afce history since Brady came in league. And  Brady/Jets be up against Bb and who at qb?  A Mac Jones clone?  Matg cassel?  Neither one screamed bb is such a genius he created a GOAT Qb from those guys.

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

I disagree replace Rex and  mark Sanchez with say a Pete Carroll or Andy Reid and there be some changes in the afce history since Brady came in league. And  Brady/Jets be up against Bb and who at qb?  A Mac Jones clone?  Matg cassel?  Neither one screamed bb is such a genius he created a GOAT Qb from those guys.

 

Cheats won many of those games by cheating which means JEST would need someone equivalent to counter the cheating and do their own.

All the Cheats wins should has asterisks after them. At least baseball threw the cheaters out.