[Vague Title] Let's Not Forget...

[SectionC3]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Luck has more to do with it than most people want to admit. Last night was an example. There was nothing between those two teams. There were a few close calls in the game that could have gone either way. The one at the end was ridiculously soft. Who knows what happens if Hurts gets the ball back? Sometimes as a former UK Prime Minister said last summer "them's the breaks". 

 

The Bills are not far away. They need their players back healthy and better injury luck next year. They need some upgrades - especially up front - and they need their bit of luck at some stage. 

This.  We need to recalibrate: invest in the lines, get a little more creative, find a bit more speed, and deal with the need to have cheap labor on D and ST.  Then we need a little randomness go our way for a change. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by SectionC3

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

nothing's "always" true, but in this case, the quote is vastly more true than not.  KC and Philly both have better rosters, GMs, and coaches.  KC didn't luck it's way into 2 wins in the past 4 years.  

 

Sure. But the Bills are not far away. We know we can beat Kansas City. It is not like they are 5-0 against us. If the best team on paper won the Superbowl every year it would be a lot more predictable than it us. The Bills can get past KC and Cincy and if they need to Philly. They need the bounces to go their way but its possible. The gap is not insurmountable. 

[Zerovoltz]

As other mentioned...Vegas has bills no worse than 3rd for Super Bowl odds next season.  

 

I see alot of fans here suggesting fix this or that, draft this or that.  Sign this or that....and so on.  You are no worse than 3rd in SB odds because of the QB.

 

I don't claim to know what needs to be added, subtracted and so on for the Bills to be better.  But I do know that Allen is a QB that you put on any roster and that team has a fighters chance.  

 

For a little perspective, and I've seen some posters go this direction....KC only had Mahomes, Kelce, Andrew Wiley (who isn't good) Chris Jones, Derrick Nhadi and Harrison Butker...plus the long snapper as holdovers from the 2019 Winner.  KC had an entirely new WR corps from last year.   KC had ALL new DB's and Nick Bolton started all year.  He didn't last season.  Point being that the constant was Mahomes and a few guys.  Allen IS the type of QB you can reset / remake your team around completely and he's going to do good things.  

 

You ALWAYS have a chance.....and you are always in the discussion when your QB is elite.  As Joe Burrow would say...."the window is Allens Career"  

[RyanC883]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. But the Bills are not far away. We know we can beat Kansas City. It is not like they are 5-0 against us. If the best team on paper won the Superbowl every year it would be a lot more predictable than it us. The Bills can get past KC and Cincy and if they need to Philly. They need the bounces to go their way but its possible. The gap is not insurmountable. 

 

I enjoy this dialogue, but to me it was more than "the bounces" against Cincy this year, and the week before, almost lost to a team starting a rookie QB.  The defensive scheme and/or personnel is not up to the task over multiple playoff losses, and the offensive weapons (OL and WR room in particular) and play calling are subpar.  Can we close the gap: absolutely.  But right now, there is a decent sized gap in the playoffs.  

14 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

As other mentioned...Vegas has bills no worse than 3rd for Super Bowl odds next season.  

 

I see alot of fans here suggesting fix this or that, draft this or that.  Sign this or that....and so on.  You are no worse than 3rd in SB odds because of the QB.

 

I don't claim to know what needs to be added, subtracted and so on for the Bills to be better.  But I do know that Allen is a QB that you put on any roster and that team has a fighters chance.  

 

For a little perspective, and I've seen some posters go this direction....KC only had Mahomes, Kelce, Andrew Wiley (who isn't good) Chris Jones, Derrick Nhadi and Harrison Butker...plus the long snapper as holdovers from the 2019 Winner.  KC had an entirely new WR corps from last year.   KC had ALL new DB's and Nick Bolton started all year.  He didn't last season.  Point being that the constant was Mahomes and a few guys.  Allen IS the type of QB you can reset / remake your team around completely and he's going to do good things.  

 

You ALWAYS have a chance.....and you are always in the discussion when your QB is elite.  As Joe Burrow would say...."the window is Allens Career"  

 

you also had JuJu, Creed Humphrey, Hardiman, then Tooney, and Bolton is good.  You reloaded better.  Allen is important, but you can't win it by yourself.  Sure, we can make the playoffs with him year in and out, but will never get to that next level without a team around him.  Neither team in this SB was "all QB".  

[Zerovoltz]

10 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

you also had JuJu, Creed Humphrey, Hardiman, then Tooney, and Bolton is good.  You reloaded better.  Allen is important, but you can't win it by yourself.  Sure, we can make the playoffs with him year in and out, but will never get to that next level without a team around him.  Neither team in this SB was "all QB".  

 

I don't disagree with this, but Vegas, as your team currently sits, has you with third best odds.  That is Allen.  Vegas doesn't much care what you put around him.  They assume you'll field a comepetent team.

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I don't disagree with this, but Vegas, as your team currently sits, has you with third best odds.  That is Allen.  Vegas doesn't much care what you put around him.  They assume you'll field a competent team.

 

Agree that Allen should have the Bills (if just looking at QBs) in the top 3, (actually 2, him and Mahomes are the best 2).  

 

The bolded: bad assumption based on our GM's prior performances! 

[JerseyBills]

11 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

We beat Kansas City in the regular season in Arrowhead the last 2 times we faced them...A few lucky bounces and that could have been us. If 13 seconds didn't happen Bills win Superbowl last year. The "what ifs" could go on and on and on but we're not far away as many on here think. The NFL is a game of bounces and getting a little lucky on any given Sunday. The Chiefs got lucky with that INT TD, that terrible penalty, and several others plays throughout the game.

Absolutely.  There's a reason we're still the number 2 team to win the sb next year. The gap is extremely small between us. Beane just needs to make a few tweaks and we'll be in the hunt for many years

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I enjoy this dialogue, but to me it was more than "the bounces" against Cincy this year, and the week before, almost lost to a team starting a rookie QB.  The defensive scheme and/or personnel is not up to the task over multiple playoff losses, and the offensive weapons (OL and WR room in particular) and play calling are subpar.  Can we close the gap: absolutely.  But right now, there is a decent sized gap in the playoffs.  

 

 

I think the Bills played their worst game against Cincy. They played their best football in 2022 in the first 6 weeks and they caught the injury bug all year. Yes they need to tweak some things but I honestly do not think they are as far away as you might feel. They need not play their worst game in the playoffs and they need a bounce or two. The way they played vs Cincy they'd have lost to Houston. 

[LittleSammy]

Let's not forget... the Chiefs coaching staff was smart enough not to send their kickoff into the end zone with :08 left in their biggest game of the year. Ours were not with :13 left and it cost us our best shot at a possible SB in years. Not sure how we fix the current coaching staff to get them to start "coaching smart" in playoff games. I guess McD should go out and hire another DC Assistant Coach, with this one holding the title of "DC Assistant - Playoff Games".  

[Rebel101]

12 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

We beat Kansas City in the regular season in Arrowhead the last 2 times we faced them...A few lucky bounces and that could have been us. If 13 seconds didn't happen Bills win Superbowl last year. The "what ifs" could go on and on and on but we're not far away as many on here think. The NFL is a game of bounces and getting a little lucky on any given Sunday. The Chiefs got lucky with that INT TD, that terrible penalty, and several others plays throughout the game.

The NFL becomes a high flying, violent game of chess & our coaches strategy’s are being exposed & easily exploited during the playoffs. Seeing anything other than that out of your end of the season analysis is just wishful thinking. So let’s hope it bounces are way lol. There is no such this as luck, hard work, determination, & intelligence will win 99% of the time 

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Just texting with a friend of mine, we wouldn't at all be surprised if we didn't even win the division.  We're set to regress some.

Sadly I agree. It looks like the Dolphins are set to give the Bills all they can handle.

 

Also, the Jets will get back Hall who looks to be a game changer. If they get a solid QB they will be right there too.

 

The Bills have some glaring issues in the trenches. Football 101 says you have to be strong in the trenches. KC and Philly are nice examples of that. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Sadly I agree. It looks like the Dolphins are set to give the Bills all they can handle.

 

Also, the Jets will get back Hall who looks to be a game changer. If they get a solid QB they will be right there too.

 

The Bills have some glaring issues in the trenches. Football 101 says you have to be strong in the trenches. KC and Philly are nice examples of that. 

 

Hall will be back but how good will he be? Look at Barkley. When he came back it took a couple of years before he got back to his old form this year. The Dolphins and Jets will be a pain in the ass for the Bills this year. The Dolphins coach looks like a cast member from Revenge of the Nerds, but he is doing a good job.

[Billz4ever]

3 hours ago, LittleSammy said:

Let's not forget... the Chiefs coaching staff was smart enough not to send their kickoff into the end zone with :08 left in their biggest game of the year. Ours were not with :13 left and it cost us our best shot at a possible SB in years. Not sure how we fix the current coaching staff to get them to start "coaching smart" in playoff games. I guess McD should go out and hire another DC Assistant Coach, with this one holding the title of "DC Assistant - Playoff Games".  

Most High School Coaches could've navigated :13 seconds better than our "professionals".  

 

Squib kick burns off a few...then I don't care if you just run up to the line and bear hug all their receivers on the first snap.  You take the 5-yard defensive holding call and leave them basically 1 play to try and score.

 

I've ran the scenario so many times through my head and I still can't believe they found a way to screw that up.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Zerovoltz]

21 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Hall will be back but how good will he be? Look at Barkley. When he came back it took a couple of years before he got back to his old form this year. The Dolphins and Jets will be a pain in the ass for the Bills this year. The Dolphins coach looks like a cast member from Revenge of the Nerds, but he is doing a good job.

 

I'll wait and see what the Jets get at QB.  I think Miami is going to be a real B***h next year with Fangio running the defense.  That dude knows how to slow down an opposing teams offense.  He'll drag you down into the mud.  Still take Allen and whatever roster you put out VS Tua and the Miami squad.

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I'll wait and see what the Jets get at QB.  I think Miami is going to be a real B***h next year with Fangio running the defense.  That dude knows how to slow down an opposing teams offense.  He'll drag you down into the mud.  Still take Allen and whatever roster you put out VS Tua and the Miami squad.

 

Curious to see if Tua plays or retires. As of those "Pro Bowl Games" a couple of weeks ago he still hadn't cleared concussion protocol.

[Chicken Boo]

Why does everyone assume that Buffalo wins the Super Bowl last year, like Cincinnati or the Rams were pushovers?

 

Aaron Donald would have destroyed this o-line with relative ease.

[Bob in STL]

15 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

We beat Kansas City in the regular season in Arrowhead the last 2 times we faced them...A few lucky bounces and that could have been us. If 13 seconds didn't happen Bills win Superbowl last year. The "what ifs" could go on and on and on but we're not far away as many on here think. The NFL is a game of bounces and getting a little lucky on any given Sunday. The Chiefs got lucky with that INT TD, that terrible penalty, and several others plays throughout the game.

No.  We would not have won a superbowl last year if not for 13 seconds, we would have played a home AFC championship game against a team that kicked our ass this year.  
 

We are third best in the AFC right now and Miami is right on our heels in the division.  We are closer to 5th best in the AFC than to first.   
 

We have a coaching staff that has not been able to take this team any farther.  We are weak in the trenches.   

[Zerovoltz]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Why does everyone assume that Buffalo wins the Super Bowl last year, like Cincinnati or the Rams were pushovers?

 

Aaron Donald would have destroyed this o-line with relative ease.

 

Cincinnatti was actually a better squad this season than last year.  The Bills were playing at their highest level when 13 Seconds happend.  Allen was on point.  The Bills would have hosted Cincy for the AFCCG.  You can't tell me the Bills lose that game.  KC was up 21-3 and it took Mahomes playing the worst half of football of his life to lose in OT.  The Rams had all the could handle with Cincy and everyone is all up in arms about the holding penalty at the end of the games yestarday, but in theif game winning drive VS the Bengals, the Rams benefitted from FOUR penalties including a MUCH more ticky tack holding with 1:44 left.  They needed all of that to eek out a win.  The Bills would have had it.

[Billz4ever]

12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Why does everyone assume that Buffalo wins the Super Bowl last year, like Cincinnati or the Rams were pushovers?

 

Aaron Donald would have destroyed this o-line with relative ease.

He didn't when we played them week 1 this year. He had 2 tackles and 1 sack and we definitely had better OL play last season than this one.

 

The Bills held Chris Jones sackless in the :13 seconds game last year too.

 

Our offense was on a freaking role that postseason.  Josh was playing like a man possessed.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Chicken Boo]

Just now, Zerovoltz said:

 

Cincinnatti was actually a better squad this season than last year.  The Bills were playing at their highest level when 13 Seconds happend.  Allen was on point.  The Bills would have hosted Cincy for the AFCCG.  You can't tell me the Bills lose that game.  KC was up 21-3 and it took Mahomes playing the worst half of football of his life to lose in OT.  The Rams had all the could handle with Cincy and everyone is all up in arms about the holding penalty at the end of the games yestarday, but in theif game winning drive VS the Bengals, the Rams benefitted from FOUR penalties including a MUCH more ticky tack holding with 1:44 left.  They needed all of that to eek out a win.  The Bills would have had it.

 

But that's not how it works.  There is what is and what isn't.  The Bills didn't win the Super Bowl because they were defeated by KC.  That's the end of it.

[Zerovoltz]

LOL....well yeah, but we are discussing and speculating.  IMO, the Bills would have been champs if not for 13 Seconds.  Now of course anything could have happend.  KC SHOULD have beaten Cincy in KC that year, but did not.  I believe KC would have handled that Rams squad also.  We''ll never know.  What acutally happend was Cincy went, and lost to the Rams.  

 

Bills best shot was 13 seconds....but it's not their last shot.

[newcam2012]

44 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Hall will be back but how good will he be? Look at Barkley. When he came back it took a couple of years before he got back to his old form this year. The Dolphins and Jets will be a pain in the ass for the Bills this year. The Dolphins coach looks like a cast member from Revenge of the Nerds, but he is doing a good job.

I'd ask a similar question. How good is a 34 year injury pron Von Miller gonna be? 

Edited February 13, 2023 by newcam2012

[Chicken Boo]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

He didn't when we played them week 1 this year. He had 2 tackles and 1 sack and our OL definitely played better last season than this season.

 

The Bills held Chris Jones sackless in the :13 seconds game last year too.

 

Our offense was on a freaking role that postseason.  Josh was playing like a man possessed.

 

Hot streaks end.  Who's to say Josh wouldn't have reverted to his performance 3 weeks prior, at home against a horrible Flacons team and thrown 3 interceptions?

 

It's just healthier to deal in reality.   The Bills lost to KC.  That's it.  

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Hot streaks end.  Who's to say Josh wouldn't have reverted to his performance 3 weeks prior, at home against a horrible Flacons team and thrown 3 interceptions?

 

It's just healthier to deal in reality.   The Bills lost to KC.  That's it.  

You specifically mentioned Aaron Donald.  You said he would tear us up.  I responded and gave you what he this this very season against an OL that was worse than last year. 

 

You're now changing the subject.

[Chicken Boo]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

You specifically mentioned Aaron Donald.  You said he would tear us up.  I responded and gave you what he this this very season against an OL that was worse than last year. 

 

You're now changing the subject.

 

Aaron Donald was a different animal in 2021 than he was in 2022.  Kind of like Allen being on his hot streak, Donald was tearing ***** up too. 

 

Should have been awarded Super Bowl MVP, actually.

 

*and you gloss over 1 sack like it's nothing.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Aaron Donald was a different animal in 2021 than he was in 2022.  Kind of like Allen being on his hot streak, Donald was tearing ***** up too. 

 

Should have been awarded Super Bowl MVP, actually.

 

*and you gloss over 1 sack like it's nothing.  

We put 31 points up on them with relative ease.  It was nothing.

[Chicken Boo]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

We put 31 points up on them with relative ease.  It was nothing.

 

🤨 The Bills beat the Patriots 31-0 to open the 2003 season.  They Beat the Cowboys 13-10 in the 1993 regular season. 

 

Catch my drift?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

8 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

We put 31 points up on them with relative ease.  It was nothing.

 

 9/10 on 3rd downs & no punts. The 4 turnovers were the only thing that stopped the offense that night.

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

25 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

LOL....well yeah, but we are discussing and speculating.  IMO, the Bills would have been champs if not for 13 Seconds.  Now of course anything could have happend.  KC SHOULD have beaten Cincy in KC that year, but did not.  I believe KC would have handled that Rams squad also.  We''ll never know.  What acutally happend was Cincy went, and lost to the Rams.  

 

Bills best shot was 13 seconds....but it's not their last shot.

Don't you have a parade to attend? What are you doing slumming it with fans of a poverty franchise?

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

🤨 The Bills beat the Patriots 31-0 to open the 2003 season.  They Beat the Cowboys 13-10 in the 1993 regular season. 

 

Catch my drift?

OK and?  Not sure what that has to do with anything, but the consensus is that the Bills had a great shot at a title last year if they hadn't brain farted the end of the game away in a game that was all but won.

2 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 9/10 on 3rd downs & no punts. The 4 turnovers were the only thing that stopped the offense that night.

 

 

 

And I think we sacked Stafford 7 times and picked him off 3.  Great showing all around minus the turnovers.

[Zerovoltz]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Don't you have a parade to attend? What are you doing slumming it with fans of a poverty franchise?

I enjoy the discourse here.  Great site and I like the Bills when they aren't playing the Chiefs.  Been following along since the Mahomes trade and the fanbase and Josh Allen won me over.  This discussion seems fun..IDK.  

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

OK and?  Not sure what that has to do with anything, but the consensus is that the Bills had a great shot at a title last year if they hadn't brain farted the end of the game away in a game that was all but won.

And I think we sacked Stafford 7 times and picked him off 3.  Great showing all around minus the turnovers.

 

 We've actually played against Aaron Donald 2 out of the last 3 years. The offense averaged 33 ppg & Josh was 50/64  608 yards 7 tds, 3 ints. Also rushed for another 64 yards and 2 more tds. 9 total tds in those 2 games. Damn, Aaron who?

 

 

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 We've actually played against Aaron Donald 2 out of the last 3 years. The offense averaged 33 ppg & Josh was 50/64  608 yards 7 tds, 3 ints. Also rushed for another 64 yards and 2 more tds. 9 total tds in those 2 games. Damn, Aaron who?

 

 

Yeah, this guy must be talking about an Aaron Donald that feasts on immobile QBs because Josh certainly hasn't had an issue with him and that's with our less-than-stellar OL.

 

I think it's a miracle that Josh only takes the amount of sacks he does given how bad the line looks at times.

 

You put a pure pocket passes behind our line and he probably gets sacked 50 times this season at a minimum. Saffold was good for at least a couple turn styles a game.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

6 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Yeah, this guy must be talking about an Aaron Donald that feasts on immobile QBs because Josh certainly hasn't had an issue with him and that's with our less-than-stellar OL.

 

I think it's a miracle that Josh only takes the amount of sacks he does given how bad the line looks at times.

 

You put a pure pocket passes behind our line and he probably gets sacked 50 times this season at a minimum. Saffold was good for at least a couple turn styles a game.  

 

 An immobile QB in this scheme, behind this oline gets sacked 70 times lol, minimum. That's just over 4 a game. And yes Josh was running for his life in the 1st Rams games in 2020. That's the game where he got a 15 yard facemask called on him as he was throwing 3 different defenders off him

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billz4ever]

11 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 An immobile QB in this scheme, behind this oline gets sacked 70 times lol, minimum. That's just over 4 a game. And yes Josh was running for his life in the 1st Rams games in 2020. That's the game where he got a 15 yard facemask called on him as he was throwing 3 different defenders off him

 

 

 

 

 

 

LMAO, I remember that game.  We blew a huge lead but managed to get it back with :15 seconds left. How many other QBs aren't flat on their back with at least 3 guys on top of him if that happens to them? 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

Why does everyone assume that Buffalo wins the Super Bowl last year, like Cincinnati or the Rams were pushovers?

 

Aaron Donald would have destroyed this o-line with relative ease.

You don't want people speaking in positive certainties but are happy to throw that claim out there when we just watched donald NOT do that a couple months ago? LOL

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

LMAO, I remember that game.  How many other QBs aren't flat on their back with at least 3 guys on top of him if that happens to them? 

 

 I don't think there's another QB quick enough to get away from the initial rush, then strong enough to fight them all off. He's the ultimate weapon of size, speed, power and maybe the strongest arm ever.

 

  He just needs some help on offense and Dorsey needs to step his game way up. Daboll had a **** ton of experience overall and in big moments for Josh to draw upon, Dorsey doesn't. I think that's what Josh is missing more. Daboll was more like a Dad where as Dorsey's more like an older brother. 

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

You don't want people speaking in positive certainties but are happy to throw that claim out there when we just watched donald NOT do that a couple months ago? LOL

 

The Bills didn't win the Super Bowl.  Aaron Donald and the Rams did.  Aaron Donald also wrecked shop on the way to that ring.

 

Thems the facts.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[Southern_Bills]

18 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

13 Seconds....that was your year...you all would have beaten the Rams.  

 

100%, I don't think next year goes past the divisional round either without some luck.

 

Maybe 2024 season if they start using draft picks and money thinking that way.

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure. But the Bills are not far away. We know we can beat Kansas City. It is not like they are 5-0 against us. If the best team on paper won the Superbowl every year it would be a lot more predictable than it us. The Bills can get past KC and Cincy and if they need to Philly. They need the bounces to go their way but its possible. The gap is not insurmountable. 

I do enjoy and appreciate your sincere and honest positivity about Our Bills.
 But from my seat , change and definitive progress needs to occur beginning from the Top on down.

 Not quite rearranging deck chairs, but growth and the realization what has been put on the field is not going to cut it come playoff time when the best go against the best. We are not that. Painful as it may be.
  But there is still hope !
I will look forward to next season and wishful that enough of the brain trust at OBD can implement what it takes to bring Bills up anther level. Then we can discuss how luck plays well with hard work to get results !!
 Cheers GB