Dust has settled...Alphas look at what lies ahead

[Alphadawg7]

I am sitting it an unusual position, and I don't like it.  The 3 previous playoff exits in 2021, 2020, and 2019 I was left feeling very excited and optimistic about the next year, like we were just getting started or had arrived.  

• 2019 - We had a 2 score lead at halftime, then a handful of self inflicted wounds, some REALLY BAD refs, cost us that game.  But we were so young and felt like we starting to arrive and on our way to being one of the best teams in the AFC.
• 2020 - we go 13-3 and make the AFCCG but it felt like we weren't quite on the Chiefs level yet after that loss.  But it did feel like we were nipping at their heels and just just a few tweaks away from over taking them as the top team in the AFC.
• 2021 - Allen, Davis, and the offense played out of their minds and gave so much hope for the next year.  Like it took a fluke miscommunication by the ST Coordinator for the Chiefs to get a small window to steal the game back, but we had shown we were now the better team.  It felt like we were the best team in football and could have beaten both the Bengals and then Rams in SB.  

 

But now this year, things feel different.  Instead of feeling like we are on our way to being the best team, or that we are the best team in the AFC...it now feels like we are firmly behind KC and Cincy right now with other teams nipping at our heels even as the 3rd best team, including ones in our own division.  And we are entering an offseason with key players on both sides of the ball as Free Agents, with a tight cap, and several holes to fill.  Complicating it further, two of our most expensive players have ACL tears impact their potential value to the team (Tre and Von).

 

That being said, it is not all doom and gloom, we are still a good team and are blessed to have Allen and Diggs still.  But we do have a lot of challenges and decisions facing us as we head into the offseason:

 

Before we even address the roster:

• Frazier and Dorsey likely back - Big mistake out the gate IMHO.
  • Frazier has given up 107 points and 1403 yards the last 3 playoff losses, that is inexcusable, not to mention the 13 second debacle.  Yes I know McD has a hand in the defensive system as well, but bringing in a new DC with new ideas and new ways to use players would still be a welcomed change.
  • Dorsey was clueless on how to use our personnel this year.  We only had 2 legit outside WR's and a roster full of slots, and yet he played an air it out deep ball game.
    • We drafted an undersized RB in 2nd round to catch passes then barely threw him the ball and instead ran draw plays with him.  We traded for Hines then gave him 10 touches.  We had a weak spot at slot and yet didn't get Shakir more touches and experience.  And of course we didn't run the ball. 
• Our schemes and roster are not built for severe weather conditions, and that is going to be tough for us to remedy if we are going to stay the course with the same systems that Frazier and Dorsey brought this year.  

 

Personnel Concerns:  

• We have a tight cap, and low round pick in each round.
• Poyer, Edmunds, and Devin are FA's - likely at least 2 gone, maybe all 3, creating new holes to fill while tight on cap space
• Von Miller - 34 and coming off ACL.  We already saw with Tre, it's no easy task to come back from this injury, and he is trying to do it at 34.  Big questions on when he will back as well as what kind of a player he can be, especially given he relies a lot on speed and quickness.  
• Offensive Line needs significant help, and we don't yet know if Morse will be back either.  Between age, concussion issues, and Hamlin scare, it would not surprise me to see him retire, and honestly, he probably should as he has had too many concussions over his career.  
• Need at least 1 more quality WR
• Secondary concerns - What kind of players will Tre and Hyde be next year?  Can Elam take over a starting spot?  Will Benford convert to Safety and how well will that transition go if he does?  Will Hamlin be back next year?
• I am not 100%, but I think Shaq is also a FA, and he was playing well for us...will he back if he is a FA?
• Right now, we are staring down the barrel of a tight cap situation while Cincy and our own divisional opponents continue to reap the benefits (as of now) of no big QB contract and will potentially have cap space to keep closing the gap while we will cap strapped and have existing holes and potentially new holes to fill with budget FA's and late in the round draft slots.

 

My thoughts based on the above info:

Bringing back both Dorsey and Frazier are only going to make next year harder IMO.  But based on what we have heard since the loss, it seems pretty probable they will both be back.  I think if we want any chance to contend next year come playoff time, we are going to need the offense and Josh Allen of 2021 to do it.  

• Invest significantly in protecting Allen along the OL, at least ONE of our first 2 picks better be OL and I would invest 2 in the first 4 rounds.  Would also see who we can add in FA.
• Get another legit WR opposite Diggs.  Explore a trade, free agent or just take a WR early, first or 2nd round, to help Josh.  Then commit to Shakir taking over the slot position.
• Cook is not physical, so go draft someone in mid rounds or sign someone like D'Onta Foreman at a bargain to be a more traditional runner (he can catch too) and let Cook play more of a Kamara role.  
• Expand Knox's role as a pass catcher like they did down the stretch.  Get back to using him in the redzone more.   
• Try moving Benford to Safety, which was what they considered when they drafted him in the first place.  
• Poyer and Edmunds - I am torn here.  On one hand, Poyers value is undeniable...but you got age and injury history now playing into the discussion, plus cap space.  Edmunds is easily coming off his best year and has been a major piece in our defense.  But cap space is tight, and having BOTH of them has not kept us from giving up 107 points and 1403 yards in our last 3 playoff losses.  
  • So, I think I am now leaning towards either let both walk, or keep Poyer on a short term deal and let Edmunds walk and use that cap space to invest as much as we can into protecting Josh and upgrading this offense.  
  • Look to replace Edmunds with a value add Free Agent and maybe try and find a young guy in the 3rd or 4th rounds potentially.  
• I would try and package Ed Oliver for a draft pick(s) or even a quality player at a position of need.  His impact is so dependent on the guys around him, he isn't consistently disrupting games and was just taken completely out of the game by Cincy's backup OL.  I can't see investing heavy into him the following season, so I would trade him for assets or a player that can help this team next year.  Our DT can be anchored by Phillips, Settle and Jones next year and not be any worse than its been the last 3 playoff losses.

   

This would be my offseason plan, although that is not entirely true...my offseason plan would be to move on from BOTH Frazier and Dorsey and give McD one last year to get us over the hump before he hits the hot seat too.  But, given it doesn't feel like either is going anywhere, I would say minimize our overhead on defense since it didn't help us the last 4 playoff exits and invest heavy into the offense.   Who we draft will be a direct reflection of who we sign in FA prior...for example, if we sign Foreman at RB that makes drafting a RB less of a priority.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[LABILLBACKER]

The biggest mistake will be wasting Josh another year by continuing to go with Sean and the coordinators.  Poyer, Edmunds and Singletary had zero impact in all these playoff loses. Let them walk.  If Beane doesn't go hard for OL/WR, the above comments won't even matter.  We're screwed and a Marty Schottenheimer type purgatory will be our destiny. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The biggest mistake will be wasting Josh another year by continuing to go with Sean and the coordinators.  Poyer, Edmunds and Singletary had zero impact in all these playoff loses. Let them walk.  If Beane doesn't go hard for OL/WR, the above comments won't even matter.  We're screwed and a Marty Schottenheimer type purgatory will be our destiny. 

 

I agree...although I don't think it was Devins fault, I think he will be a better RB on a team that uses him effectively.  But certainly not someone we should pay FA money to.  I would rather sign Formean cheaper.  

 

But investing in the D has netted us 107 points given up and 1403 yards in last 3 playoff losses.  So if you are gonna run this flawed Defensive system, we can have cheaper guys peform that bad...so shift the money to the offense this year.  

[Trock]

Maybe start a billboard? 

[Airseven]

Somebody who read that please post a summary.

[starrymessenger]

In order for this coaching staff to do the things that would be necessary for the team to take another step forward they would have to become completely different people. In my experience people don't fundamentally change their psychological make up very often.

McD and Frazier are senior members in the coaching confraternity. They are unquestionably fully qualified football professionals but they are who they are and the particular needs of this team do not put them in a position to be successful here given their conservative, risk averse philosophy and McD's apparent blind spot when it comes to offence in the 21st century.

McD was definitely a good choice when he was hired but today's Bills are a very different team than they were then with different needs. If you were picking your staff today I don't think there would be much support for hiring any of these guys in their current roles. Of course change for no other purpose than change is a guaranteed bad idea and I have no idea if the kinds of coaching prospects you might want to look at are out there. My concern is that the longer we wait to make changes the longer we will be in the same position we are in now and possibly even worse. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by starrymessenger

[Billsfan1972]

Why are us fans beating ourselves up?  The seasons over and we have 'til September to see what moves the Bills make and what they look like come 2023.

 

What makes it funny is while the majority here have major concerns about Frazier and many are just hoping that Dorsey's shortcomings are due to him being a rookie OC, McD for most escapes criticism (or it is contentious).

 

As long as Allen is the QB, the Bills have a punchers chance, but will 12-5 and another loss in round two be okay?  Or does that mean that then Frazier or Dorsey go.

 

That's the scary part.  If the Bills are very good again (i.e. 12+ victories and a playoff loss) does anything change?

 

As one of McD's biggest detractors, I'm a Bills fan and would have happily eaten crow for a Bills championship, but from week 8 on, any negative post/thread was met with scorn here.

 

What is most peculiar too, is those who were deriding those posts earlier are now the one's saying  "Too many injuries to overcome", "we're a bad match-up vs. Cincy" & "we're not elite". 

 

I for one always and continue to think the Bills are the best team in the NFL.

 

I guess the good news is that the Bills ended the year right where they did in 2021/22 and it was Cincy taking a step back (no SB).     

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[colin]

sounds pretty good.

 

i think it's culling time.  poy and edmunds have to walk.  cost/benefit isn't right (although i still kinda have hope for edmunds, he seems like a coach killer, never as good as you think he should be).

 

I'd trade oliver if i could, or i'd keep him for one season.  not the worst guy to have trying to show out for a contract IMO.

 

i'd roll w the dbs we have under contract, we have a ton and they have shown enough (we had a top 3 D 3 times and number 1 i think twice with levi friggen wallace at cb2).

 

if a daquan jones quality value guy is available at DT im all for it, ow a LATER pick into DL is fine.

 

i'd look to sign at least one solid starter, potentially paying bank for an LT and moving dawkins to LG.  i hope morse retires, i'd ditch him and use bates to replace him (downgrade but not huge).  spencer gets another shot at RT, but we need to draft at least one starter at OG (or C i suppose) and at least one T who can push either of our current starters.  i'd also sign the best WR w a decent speed/size combo i could.

 

We have to put picks into WR and i think TE.  we have one guy who can play TE and that's weak.  i'd take a late RB for a bigger body.  first 4 picks should be OL times 2 (unless we sign 2), WR and WR/TE.

 

our coaches got a rag tag squad on D to be number 2 in 2018, and that's with rookie allen and the least amount of offensive talent i've ever seen on a bills team (puts pressure on the D).  i think firing fraser would be a good change, and im fine w anyone mcd would appoint or just have him take it over himself.  i personally think he's stepped in a few times to take over the d calls and they always make the team better.  fraser is a spent force.

 

honestly, if we get two new bodies who can play at RB and TE, add two blockers (and even getting brown healthy might count as one) and an actual WR (even TD Jesus would be an upgrade, but not enough) then this O could be really good.

 

w oliver in a contract year, final year AJ, 2nd to final year Basham, and 3rd year groot, and of course miller coming back, we have plenty of guys on the DL, we can just have the better ones play more snaps (imagine that!) to make up for losing phillips and lawson to whoever signs them/UPS.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree...although I don't think it was Devins fault, I think he will be a better RB on a team that uses him effectively.  But certainly not someone we should pay FA money to.  I would rather sign Formean cheaper.  

 

But investing in the D has netted us 107 points given up and 1403 yards in last 3 playoff losses.  So if you are gonna run this flawed Defensive system, we can have cheaper guys peform that bad...so shift the money to the offense this year.  

No it was never Devin's fault.  He stood no chance behind that awful line for 5 years. It's actually a good testament to him that his career yard average was that high.  Cook will be our finesse speed guy but as MAJBobby suggested,  grab Perine cheap for that short yardage power back. Less wear & tear on 17.

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No it was never Devin's fault.  He stood no chance behind that awful line for 5 years. It's actually a good testament to him that his career yard average was that high.  Cook will be our finesse speed guy but as MAJBobby suggested,  grab Perine cheap for that short yardage power back. Less wear & tear on 17.

Id rather sign Foreman 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

Somebody who read that please post a summary.

That was entirely readable compared to some of the ***** I see on this board

A couple of short notes
 

I think the damar Hamlin situation affected this team more than anybody wants to admit Saffold talking about not having any gas left may not have been physical. It may have been emotional.

 

I’m not gonna speak on the Defense in Fraser, because I expect more of the same there, but let’s keep in mind that the offensive coordinator was in his first year first year people do improve

 

As long as we have Josh Allen, we are never out of it

[US Egg]

Another dust settling thread?

 

I pledge to not start another.

[Aussie Joe]

Nice write up..

 

Running back the D scheme troubles me the most …I’m not sure whatever else they do is going to matter if they don’t fix this…

 

 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am sitting it an unusual position, and I don't like it.  The 3 previous playoff exits in 2021, 2020, and 2019 I was left feeling very excited and optimistic about the next year, like we were just getting started or had arrived.  

• 2019 - We had a 2 score lead at halftime, then a handful of self inflicted wounds, some REALLY BAD refs, cost us that game.  But we were so young and felt like we starting to arrive and on our way to being one of the best teams in the AFC.
• 2020 - we go 13-3 and make the AFCCG but it felt like we weren't quite on the Chiefs level yet after that loss.  But it did feel like we were nipping at their heels and just just a few tweaks away from over taking them as the top team in the AFC.
• 2021 - Allen, Davis, and the offense played out of their minds and gave so much hope for the next year.  Like it took a fluke miscommunication by the ST Coordinator for the Chiefs to get a small window to steal the game back, but we had shown we were now the better team.  It felt like we were the best team in football and could have beaten both the Bengals and then Rams in SB.  

 

But now this year, things feel different.  Instead of feeling like we are on our way to being the best team, or that we are the best team in the AFC...it now feels like we are firmly behind KC and Cincy right now with other teams nipping at our heels even as the 3rd best team, including ones in our own division.  And we are entering an offseason with key players on both sides of the ball as Free Agents, with a tight cap, and several holes to fill.  Complicating it further, two of our most expensive players have ACL tears impact their potential value to the team (Tre and Von).

 

That being said, it is not all doom and gloom, we are still a good team and are blessed to have Allen and Diggs still.  But we do have a lot of challenges and decisions facing us as we head into the offseason:

 

Before we even address the roster:

• Frazier and Dorsey likely back - Big mistake out the gate IMHO.
  • Frazier has given up 107 points and 1403 yards the last 3 playoff losses, that is inexcusable, not to mention the 13 second debacle.  Yes I know McD has a hand in the defensive system as well, but bringing in a new DC with new ideas and new ways to use players would still be a welcomed change.
  • Dorsey was clueless on how to use our personnel this year.  We only had 2 legit outside WR's and a roster full of slots, and yet he played an air it out deep ball game.
    • We drafted an undersized RB in 2nd round to catch passes then barely threw him the ball and instead ran draw plays with him.  We traded for Hines then gave him 10 touches.  We had a weak spot at slot and yet didn't get Shakir more touches and experience.  And of course we didn't run the ball. 
• Our schemes and roster are not built for severe weather conditions, and that is going to be tough for us to remedy if we are going to stay the course with the same systems that Frazier and Dorsey brought this year.  

 

Personnel Concerns:  

• We have a tight cap, and low round pick in each round.
• Poyer, Edmunds, and Devin are FA's - likely at least 2 gone, maybe all 3, creating new holes to fill while tight on cap space
• Von Miller - 34 and coming off ACL.  We already saw with Tre, it's no easy task to come back from this injury, and he is trying to do it at 34.  Big questions on when he will back as well as what kind of a player he can be, especially given he relies a lot on speed and quickness.  
• Offensive Line needs significant help, and we don't yet know if Morse will be back either.  Between age, concussion issues, and Hamlin scare, it would not surprise me to see him retire, and honestly, he probably should as he has had too many concussions over his career.  
• Need at least 1 more quality WR
• Secondary concerns - What kind of players will Tre and Hyde be next year?  Can Elam take over a starting spot?  Will Benford convert to Safety and how well will that transition go if he does?  Will Hamlin be back next year?
• I am not 100%, but I think Shaq is also a FA, and he was playing well for us...will he back if he is a FA?
• Right now, we are staring down the barrel of a tight cap situation while Cincy and our own divisional opponents continue to reap the benefits (as of now) of no big QB contract and will potentially have cap space to keep closing the gap while we will cap strapped and have existing holes and potentially new holes to fill with budget FA's and late in the round draft slots.

 

My thoughts based on the above info:

Bringing back both Dorsey and Frazier are only going to make next year harder IMO.  But based on what we have heard since the loss, it seems pretty probable they will both be back.  I think if we want any chance to contend next year come playoff time, we are going to need the offense and Josh Allen of 2021 to do it.  

• Invest significantly in protecting Allen along the OL, at least ONE of our first 2 picks better be OL and I would invest 2 in the first 4 rounds.  Would also see who we can add in FA.
• Get another legit WR opposite Diggs.  Explore a trade, free agent or just take a WR early, first or 2nd round, to help Josh.  Then commit to Shakir taking over the slot position.
• Cook is not physical, so go draft someone in mid rounds or sign someone like D'Onta Foreman at a bargain to be a more traditional runner (he can catch too) and let Cook play more of a Kamara role.  
• Expand Knox's role as a pass catcher like they did down the stretch.  Get back to using him in the redzone more.   
• Try moving Benford to Safety, which was what they considered when they drafted him in the first place.  
• Poyer and Edmunds - I am torn here.  On one hand, Poyers value is undeniable...but you got age and injury history now playing into the discussion, plus cap space.  Edmunds is easily coming off his best year and has been a major piece in our defense.  But cap space is tight, and having BOTH of them has not kept us from giving up 107 points and 1403 yards in our last 3 playoff losses.  
  • So, I think I am now leaning towards either let both walk, or keep Poyer on a short term deal and let Edmunds walk and use that cap space to invest as much as we can into protecting Josh and upgrading this offense.  
  • Look to replace Edmunds with a value add Free Agent and maybe try and find a young guy in the 3rd or 4th rounds potentially.  
• I would try and package Ed Oliver for a draft pick(s) or even a quality player at a position of need.  His impact is so dependent on the guys around him, he isn't consistently disrupting games and was just taken completely out of the game by Cincy's backup OL.  I can't see investing heavy into him the following season, so I would trade him for assets or a player that can help this team next year.  Our DT can be anchored by Phillips, Settle and Jones next year and not be any worse than its been the last 3 playoff losses.

   

This would be my offseason plan, although that is not entirely true...my offseason plan would be to move on from BOTH Frazier and Dorsey and give McD one last year to get us over the hump before he hits the hot seat too.  But, given it doesn't feel like either is going anywhere, I would say minimize our overhead on defense since it didn't help us the last 4 playoff exits and invest heavy into the offense.   Who we draft will be a direct reflection of who we sign in FA prior...for example, if we sign Foreman at RB that makes drafting a RB less of a priority.  

 

 Von had a weekly appearance on the Pat Mcafee show this year and during his 1st appearance after the surgery says he'll be ready to go come week 1. The surgery he had vs Tre's are alot diffetent.

 

 It was his 2nd ACL surgery to that knee and there was alot of the painful stuff they were able to skip and reuse from the 1st surgery(Like holes that have to be drilled through bone). Said pain was alot less this time around and there's a quicker recovery time.

 

 

 

[McBean]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The biggest mistake will be wasting Josh another year by continuing to go with Sean and the coordinators.  Poyer, Edmunds and Singletary had zero impact in all these playoff loses. Let them walk.  If Beane doesn't go hard for OL/WR, the above comments won't even matter.  We're screwed and a Marty Schottenheimer type purgatory will be our destiny. 

Absolutely spot on.

 

Great post.

[bobobonators]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am sitting it an unusual position, and I don't like it.  The 3 previous playoff exits in 2021, 2020, and 2019 I was left feeling very excited and optimistic about the next year, like we were just getting started or had arrived.  

• 2019 - We had a 2 score lead at halftime, then a handful of self inflicted wounds, some REALLY BAD refs, cost us that game.  But we were so young and felt like we starting to arrive and on our way to being one of the best teams in the AFC.
• 2020 - we go 13-3 and make the AFCCG but it felt like we weren't quite on the Chiefs level yet after that loss.  But it did feel like we were nipping at their heels and just just a few tweaks away from over taking them as the top team in the AFC.
• 2021 - Allen, Davis, and the offense played out of their minds and gave so much hope for the next year.  Like it took a fluke miscommunication by the ST Coordinator for the Chiefs to get a small window to steal the game back, but we had shown we were now the better team.  It felt like we were the best team in football and could have beaten both the Bengals and then Rams in SB.  

 

But now this year, things feel different.  Instead of feeling like we are on our way to being the best team, or that we are the best team in the AFC...it now feels like we are firmly behind KC and Cincy right now with other teams nipping at our heels even as the 3rd best team, including ones in our own division.  And we are entering an offseason with key players on both sides of the ball as Free Agents, with a tight cap, and several holes to fill.  Complicating it further, two of our most expensive players have ACL tears impact their potential value to the team (Tre and Von).

 

That being said, it is not all doom and gloom, we are still a good team and are blessed to have Allen and Diggs still.  But we do have a lot of challenges and decisions facing us as we head into the offseason:

 

Before we even address the roster:

• Frazier and Dorsey likely back - Big mistake out the gate IMHO.
  • Frazier has given up 107 points and 1403 yards the last 3 playoff losses, that is inexcusable, not to mention the 13 second debacle.  Yes I know McD has a hand in the defensive system as well, but bringing in a new DC with new ideas and new ways to use players would still be a welcomed change.
  • Dorsey was clueless on how to use our personnel this year.  We only had 2 legit outside WR's and a roster full of slots, and yet he played an air it out deep ball game.
    • We drafted an undersized RB in 2nd round to catch passes then barely threw him the ball and instead ran draw plays with him.  We traded for Hines then gave him 10 touches.  We had a weak spot at slot and yet didn't get Shakir more touches and experience.  And of course we didn't run the ball. 
• Our schemes and roster are not built for severe weather conditions, and that is going to be tough for us to remedy if we are going to stay the course with the same systems that Frazier and Dorsey brought this year.  

 

Personnel Concerns:  

• We have a tight cap, and low round pick in each round.
• Poyer, Edmunds, and Devin are FA's - likely at least 2 gone, maybe all 3, creating new holes to fill while tight on cap space
• Von Miller - 34 and coming off ACL.  We already saw with Tre, it's no easy task to come back from this injury, and he is trying to do it at 34.  Big questions on when he will back as well as what kind of a player he can be, especially given he relies a lot on speed and quickness.  
• Offensive Line needs significant help, and we don't yet know if Morse will be back either.  Between age, concussion issues, and Hamlin scare, it would not surprise me to see him retire, and honestly, he probably should as he has had too many concussions over his career.  
• Need at least 1 more quality WR
• Secondary concerns - What kind of players will Tre and Hyde be next year?  Can Elam take over a starting spot?  Will Benford convert to Safety and how well will that transition go if he does?  Will Hamlin be back next year?
• I am not 100%, but I think Shaq is also a FA, and he was playing well for us...will he back if he is a FA?
• Right now, we are staring down the barrel of a tight cap situation while Cincy and our own divisional opponents continue to reap the benefits (as of now) of no big QB contract and will potentially have cap space to keep closing the gap while we will cap strapped and have existing holes and potentially new holes to fill with budget FA's and late in the round draft slots.

 

My thoughts based on the above info:

Bringing back both Dorsey and Frazier are only going to make next year harder IMO.  But based on what we have heard since the loss, it seems pretty probable they will both be back.  I think if we want any chance to contend next year come playoff time, we are going to need the offense and Josh Allen of 2021 to do it.  

• Invest significantly in protecting Allen along the OL, at least ONE of our first 2 picks better be OL and I would invest 2 in the first 4 rounds.  Would also see who we can add in FA.
• Get another legit WR opposite Diggs.  Explore a trade, free agent or just take a WR early, first or 2nd round, to help Josh.  Then commit to Shakir taking over the slot position.
• Cook is not physical, so go draft someone in mid rounds or sign someone like D'Onta Foreman at a bargain to be a more traditional runner (he can catch too) and let Cook play more of a Kamara role.  
• Expand Knox's role as a pass catcher like they did down the stretch.  Get back to using him in the redzone more.   
• Try moving Benford to Safety, which was what they considered when they drafted him in the first place.  
• Poyer and Edmunds - I am torn here.  On one hand, Poyers value is undeniable...but you got age and injury history now playing into the discussion, plus cap space.  Edmunds is easily coming off his best year and has been a major piece in our defense.  But cap space is tight, and having BOTH of them has not kept us from giving up 107 points and 1403 yards in our last 3 playoff losses.  
  • So, I think I am now leaning towards either let both walk, or keep Poyer on a short term deal and let Edmunds walk and use that cap space to invest as much as we can into protecting Josh and upgrading this offense.  
  • Look to replace Edmunds with a value add Free Agent and maybe try and find a young guy in the 3rd or 4th rounds potentially.  
• I would try and package Ed Oliver for a draft pick(s) or even a quality player at a position of need.  His impact is so dependent on the guys around him, he isn't consistently disrupting games and was just taken completely out of the game by Cincy's backup OL.  I can't see investing heavy into him the following season, so I would trade him for assets or a player that can help this team next year.  Our DT can be anchored by Phillips, Settle and Jones next year and not be any worse than its been the last 3 playoff losses.

   

This would be my offseason plan, although that is not entirely true...my offseason plan would be to move on from BOTH Frazier and Dorsey and give McD one last year to get us over the hump before he hits the hot seat too.  But, given it doesn't feel like either is going anywhere, I would say minimize our overhead on defense since it didn't help us the last 4 playoff exits and invest heavy into the offense.   Who we draft will be a direct reflection of who we sign in FA prior...for example, if we sign Foreman at RB that makes drafting a RB less of a priority.  

Very well said. Im right there with you on basically everything. 
 

As for the RB, I’ve thought what this offense needs is a bruiser like Brandon Jacobs was with the Giants. Just a beast who you know will get that 3rd and short instead of having Allen risk his body. And he was a late round pick too. 
 

With the defense the most important thing is Frazier getting the boot. If he stays im almost of the mindset of not resigning anyone (Edmunds/Poyer) and going all-in on offense. Whats the point? Why drop so much money on defense when we line up with a 10yd cushion during the playoffs? Might as well have rookies do that and hope Allen and the offense put up 40pts with more weapons/better protection. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by bobobonators

[Steptide]

I'm fine with keeping Dorsey and Frazier, but if they're gonna do that, they Damm well better change things when it comes to personel and scheme. Not saying overhaul the roster, but we all know this offense needs help. Dorsey and Fraizer can't just keep doing what they've been doing. I've seen enough kc games and Cincinnati games to know that their receivers are always wide open, I wanna see that in the bills offense again (ie 2020 bills offense) 

[Beast]

They can keep Dorsey and Fraizer. Fine.

 

Another divisional round loss or worse and time to wipe the slate clean.

[zow2]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

Somebody who read that please post a summary.

 

That post is an e-book for me.  

[SoCal Deek]

The dust settled? It has? Is that what firing the Safeties coach meant? I sure as heck hope not!!

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I'm fine with keeping Dorsey and Frazier, but if they're gonna do that, they Damm well better change things when it comes to personel and scheme. Not saying overhaul the roster, but we all know this offense needs help. Dorsey and Fraizer can't just keep doing what they've been doing. I've seen enough kc games and Cincinnati games to know that their receivers are always wide open, I wanna see that in the bills offense again (ie 2020 bills offense) 

Well I can't say the same, at least for Frazier anyways....In no way, shape, or form I can say I'm "fine" with keeping Frazier at this point. I honestly have no confidence left in me that anything will change regarding the defense if he is kept.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

After over a week to process things, I completely disagree.  

 

The Bill's are a legit threat going forward and let's be honest - if the Hamlin situation doesn't happen,  we may have had a 1st rd bye or we play Cinci in their building without that nightmare happening. Either way, we'd have a better understanding of their gameplan vs us

 

Either way, that game plays out completely different.  Imagine seeing a brother/ teammate at that level being given life saving tactics. That's a traumatic experience 

 

Looking back, we had the juice vs NE after finding out he's alive and well. And fell apart in the playoffs. And I get it, that's overwhelming,  especially to the DBs and defense as a whole. 

 

Damar being here was our SB this year and worth more than a Lombardi.  Next year we'll have a Lombardi at 1 Bills Drive👍

Edited January 31, 2023 by JerseyBills

[ganesh]

Dorsey was in his 1st year as an OC and I think he did a pretty remarkable job given the state of the OL and lack of WR depth. There is concern that Frasier is not able to replicate his regular season success in the playoffs (and fair enough).   

 

This team had too many things going on mentally to overcome beyond a certain point...

* Owner not well

* Knox losing his brother 

* Hyde after game #2

* Poyer in and out of the line up 

* Continuous injuries to the DL and OL  starters

* Losing Von Miller who was here to make that difference in the playoffs

* Losing Crowder at the beginning of the season 

* Damar Hamlin situation 

* Playing 3 games on the road in 10 days 

* Two winter blizzards to dig out of.

 

This team was mentally exhausted by the time of the playoffs...

 

I think the Bills hold this team and staff together one more season and make necessary changes in OL to protect their crown jewel and run for the championship.  Sure, that other teams are getting better and it will become harder....but it already did in 2022 and the Bills handled it.  

 

This team in spite of the above won 14 games in regular season and beat the Dolphins the playoffs.   Go Bills.

 

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am sitting it an unusual position, and I don't like it.  The 3 previous playoff exits in 2021, 2020, and 2019 I was left feeling very excited and optimistic about the next year, like we were just getting started or had arrived.  

• 2019 - We had a 2 score lead at halftime, then a handful of self inflicted wounds, some REALLY BAD refs, cost us that game.  But we were so young and felt like we starting to arrive and on our way to being one of the best teams in the AFC.
• 2020 - we go 13-3 and make the AFCCG but it felt like we weren't quite on the Chiefs level yet after that loss.  But it did feel like we were nipping at their heels and just just a few tweaks away from over taking them as the top team in the AFC.
• 2021 - Allen, Davis, and the offense played out of their minds and gave so much hope for the next year.  Like it took a fluke miscommunication by the ST Coordinator for the Chiefs to get a small window to steal the game back, but we had shown we were now the better team.  It felt like we were the best team in football and could have beaten both the Bengals and then Rams in SB.  

 

But now this year, things feel different.  Instead of feeling like we are on our way to being the best team, or that we are the best team in the AFC...it now feels like we are firmly behind KC and Cincy right now with other teams nipping at our heels even as the 3rd best team, including ones in our own division.  And we are entering an offseason with key players on both sides of the ball as Free Agents, with a tight cap, and several holes to fill.  Complicating it further, two of our most expensive players have ACL tears impact their potential value to the team (Tre and Von).

 

That being said, it is not all doom and gloom, we are still a good team and are blessed to have Allen and Diggs still.  But we do have a lot of challenges and decisions facing us as we head into the offseason:

 

Before we even address the roster:

• Frazier and Dorsey likely back - Big mistake out the gate IMHO.
  • Frazier has given up 107 points and 1403 yards the last 3 playoff losses, that is inexcusable, not to mention the 13 second debacle.  Yes I know McD has a hand in the defensive system as well, but bringing in a new DC with new ideas and new ways to use players would still be a welcomed change.
  • Dorsey was clueless on how to use our personnel this year.  We only had 2 legit outside WR's and a roster full of slots, and yet he played an air it out deep ball game.
    • We drafted an undersized RB in 2nd round to catch passes then barely threw him the ball and instead ran draw plays with him.  We traded for Hines then gave him 10 touches.  We had a weak spot at slot and yet didn't get Shakir more touches and experience.  And of course we didn't run the ball. 
• Our schemes and roster are not built for severe weather conditions, and that is going to be tough for us to remedy if we are going to stay the course with the same systems that Frazier and Dorsey brought this year.  

 

Personnel Concerns:  

• We have a tight cap, and low round pick in each round.
• Poyer, Edmunds, and Devin are FA's - likely at least 2 gone, maybe all 3, creating new holes to fill while tight on cap space
• Von Miller - 34 and coming off ACL.  We already saw with Tre, it's no easy task to come back from this injury, and he is trying to do it at 34.  Big questions on when he will back as well as what kind of a player he can be, especially given he relies a lot on speed and quickness.  
• Offensive Line needs significant help, and we don't yet know if Morse will be back either.  Between age, concussion issues, and Hamlin scare, it would not surprise me to see him retire, and honestly, he probably should as he has had too many concussions over his career.  
• Need at least 1 more quality WR
• Secondary concerns - What kind of players will Tre and Hyde be next year?  Can Elam take over a starting spot?  Will Benford convert to Safety and how well will that transition go if he does?  Will Hamlin be back next year?
• I am not 100%, but I think Shaq is also a FA, and he was playing well for us...will he back if he is a FA?
• Right now, we are staring down the barrel of a tight cap situation while Cincy and our own divisional opponents continue to reap the benefits (as of now) of no big QB contract and will potentially have cap space to keep closing the gap while we will cap strapped and have existing holes and potentially new holes to fill with budget FA's and late in the round draft slots.

 

My thoughts based on the above info:

Bringing back both Dorsey and Frazier are only going to make next year harder IMO.  But based on what we have heard since the loss, it seems pretty probable they will both be back.  I think if we want any chance to contend next year come playoff time, we are going to need the offense and Josh Allen of 2021 to do it.  

• Invest significantly in protecting Allen along the OL, at least ONE of our first 2 picks better be OL and I would invest 2 in the first 4 rounds.  Would also see who we can add in FA.
• Get another legit WR opposite Diggs.  Explore a trade, free agent or just take a WR early, first or 2nd round, to help Josh.  Then commit to Shakir taking over the slot position.
• Cook is not physical, so go draft someone in mid rounds or sign someone like D'Onta Foreman at a bargain to be a more traditional runner (he can catch too) and let Cook play more of a Kamara role.  
• Expand Knox's role as a pass catcher like they did down the stretch.  Get back to using him in the redzone more.   
• Try moving Benford to Safety, which was what they considered when they drafted him in the first place.  
• Poyer and Edmunds - I am torn here.  On one hand, Poyers value is undeniable...but you got age and injury history now playing into the discussion, plus cap space.  Edmunds is easily coming off his best year and has been a major piece in our defense.  But cap space is tight, and having BOTH of them has not kept us from giving up 107 points and 1403 yards in our last 3 playoff losses.  
  • So, I think I am now leaning towards either let both walk, or keep Poyer on a short term deal and let Edmunds walk and use that cap space to invest as much as we can into protecting Josh and upgrading this offense.  
  • Look to replace Edmunds with a value add Free Agent and maybe try and find a young guy in the 3rd or 4th rounds potentially.  
• I would try and package Ed Oliver for a draft pick(s) or even a quality player at a position of need.  His impact is so dependent on the guys around him, he isn't consistently disrupting games and was just taken completely out of the game by Cincy's backup OL.  I can't see investing heavy into him the following season, so I would trade him for assets or a player that can help this team next year.  Our DT can be anchored by Phillips, Settle and Jones next year and not be any worse than its been the last 3 playoff losses.

   

This would be my offseason plan, although that is not entirely true...my offseason plan would be to move on from BOTH Frazier and Dorsey and give McD one last year to get us over the hump before he hits the hot seat too.  But, given it doesn't feel like either is going anywhere, I would say minimize our overhead on defense since it didn't help us the last 4 playoff exits and invest heavy into the offense.   Who we draft will be a direct reflection of who we sign in FA prior...for example, if we sign Foreman at RB that makes drafting a RB less of a priority.  

This is a bit over dramatic.  McDermott doesn’t deserve to be fired, and if he was he’d have a new job in five minutes.  He is a very good head coach.  
 

As far as the coordinators, I’m much more concerned with Dorsey than Frazier.  Say what you will about the last three playoff losses but Frazier’s defense ranked top 5 in DVOA during the season.  While the performance in the playoff sucked, keep in mind he was missed three key starters and Ed Oliver was rumored to be playing through an injury as well.  Plus in the end, the defense gave up just 27 points - just 13 points after the 1st two drives.  Meanwhile the offense scored a measly 10 point - the worst performance in years.  
 

That brings me to Ken Dorsey.  I think overall he did a very mediocre job as OC. Very rarely did you see any creativity or plays designed to get gadget players touches.  He also did a very poor uprising the pass catching backs on the roster.   There is no identity on the Bills offense and that falls on Dorsey.  I’m not very encouraged for 2023 with him at the helm.  
 

If anything, Josh helped cover up a lot of issues on offense including a very poor offensive line.   I can see the same thing happening next year.  
 

 As long as the Bills improve the offensive line, I think the rest falls into place on offense.  But I think Dorsey sometimes gets pass because Josh has been so good this season 

58 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Dorsey was in his 1st year as an OC and I think he did a pretty remarkable job given the state of the OL and lack of WR depth. There is concern that Frasier is not able to replicate his regular season success in the playoffs (and fair enough).   

 

This team had too many things going on mentally to overcome beyond a certain point...

* Owner not well

* Knox losing his brother 

* Hyde after game #2

* Poyer in and out of the line up 

* Continuous injuries to the DL and OL  starters

* Losing Von Miller who was here to make that difference in the playoffs

* Losing Crowder at the beginning of the season 

* Damar Hamlin situation 

* Playing 3 games on the road in 10 days 

* Two winter blizzards to dig out of.

 

This team was mentally exhausted by the time of the playoffs...

 

I think the Bills hold this team and staff together one more season and make necessary changes in OL to protect their crown jewel and run for the championship.  Sure, that other teams are getting better and it will become harder....but it already did in 2022 and the Bills handled it.  

 

This team in spite of the above won 14 games in regular season and beat the Dolphins the playoffs.   Go Bills.

 

I wouldn’t say Dorsey had a remarkable year.  It seemed like Josh Allen covered up for a lot of his mistakes.  There was no identity or creativity on offense.  It was Allen doing something out of structure, throwing an amazing pass, or finding a way to get the balls to Diggs or Davis deep.  
 

Everything on offense looked so hard because Dorsey did a poor job.  
 

As far at the tough circumstances, I would completely agree though I would definitely take Jameson Crowder off that list 

[Nihilarian]

Some Bills fans complaining about not reaching the SB.

Yet, this team just went went 13-3 this season!! In McD's six seasons as Buffalo Bills HC this team has been to the playoffs 5 of those 6 years. (Once with Tyrod Taylor at QB!) 9-7, 6-10, 13-3, 11-6, 13-3. McD is considered one of the best head coaches in the NFL. Bills GM Brandon Beane is considered by some to be the very best of the best in NFL GM's. Yet, I read over and over how some Bills fans want them both gone or replaced? By who? 

 

Chiefs HC Andy Reid is the biggest reason the Chiefs seem to always have a shot. In the ten years he has been there they have never had a losing season and have been in the playoffs nine of those ten seasons. Five of those seasons were with Alex Smith at QB. Reid is an offensive genius, won a SB and yet was smoked in the next SB by a swarming Buc's defense. With the Chiefs, the players change and the winning continues. 

 

Buffalo HC seems to be locked into Leslie Frazier's bend but don't break defense. Somehow whomever this team hires as an OC can't seem to build a decent ground game without involving the QB as the leading rusher. 

 

So, I'm not happy with either of the Buffalo Bills coordinators at this point. Although, let's look at what the offenses / defenses have looked like the last few seasons. 

 

2023, record 13-3 AFC East Champs

2023, offense #2 in points for, #2 in yards. 8th in passing attempts, 7th in passing yards, #2 in passing TDs. #15th in rush attempts,7th in rush yards, 15th in rush TDs. 

2023, defense #2 in points allowed, #6 in yards allowed. 

 

2022 record 11-6 AFC East Champs

2022, offense #3 in points, #5 in yards. QB Josh Allen playing perfect games in the playoffs!

2022, defense #1 in points allowed, #1 in yards allowed.

 

2021 record 13-3 AFC East Champs

2020, offense #2 in points, #2 in yards.

2020, defense #16 in points allowed, #14 in yards allowed

 

2019 record 10-6 AFC East Champs

2019, offense #23 in points, #24 in yards

2019, defense #2 in points allowed, #4 in yards allowed

 

Considering the trials this team endured this season. So many injuries to key players on defense and offense.  Josh with a bad elbow. The deadly Blizzard that caused so many problems besides needing to play a home game at Detroit. Cardiac arrest on the field where a Buffalo player nearly died. The Bills losing their star pass rusher for the season. Yeah, i can see where the emotions were drained at the end of the season. 

Amazing stuff dealing with all that and more. 

 

Now, consider that Andy Reid didn't get his Chiefs to the SB until his 7th season. I'd say Bills fans should give these Buffalo Bills coaches / GM some more time to do their jobs. I kind of think that they feel the losses just as badly as Bills fans do and perhaps even more because they see it in the players faces. 

 

After nearly two decades of being of missing the playoffs and being at the bottom or near last in the division... I know I'm ready to sit back and let Beane do his magic with the draft and free agency. Let McD get his team ready for 2023. All I want for the new season is a better offensive line, an actual dominant run game like the 49ers, Eagles have.

 

If I could do one thing...it might be to hire ex Ravens OC Greg Roman to be the new Buffalo run game coordinator to help build that O line and run game. Or someone else to help keep Josh in the pocket and let the RBs take the pounding. (yea, I know Josh hurt his elbow in the pocket) So, build him a better pocket! JMHO

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The biggest mistake will be wasting Josh another year by continuing to go with Sean and the coordinators.  Poyer, Edmunds and Singletary had zero impact in all these playoff loses. Let them walk.  If Beane doesn't go hard for OL/WR, the above comments won't even matter.  We're screwed and a Marty Schottenheimer type purgatory will be our destiny. 

I too am souring on McDermott and can listen to the modern day Marty Schottenheimer.

 

First drive of the game and nobody has Ja’Marr Chase? What was that gameplan?

 

Sean and Leslie have 30+ NFL Coaching experience combined and that’s the defensive gameplan?

 

Nothing innovative or new, just a static prevent defense the entire game it felt like. 
 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[ArtVandalay]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The biggest mistake will be wasting Josh another year by continuing to go with Sean and the coordinators.  Poyer, Edmunds and Singletary had zero impact in all these playoff loses. Let them walk.  If Beane doesn't go hard for OL/WR, the above comments won't even matter.  We're screwed and a Marty Schottenheimer type purgatory will be our destiny. 

McSchottenheimer

[Momma Pecoraro]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

• 2021 - Like it took a fluke miscommunication by the ST Coordinator

Wasn’t it your HC that called for the kick off instead of the squib? 
 

McDermott choked away the best shot for a ring. Win last year and team could purge high priced assets in decline and focus on building cost controlled players.  
 

 No extending a 28 year old battered receiver by $100 mil or  signing of a declining pass rusher at exorbitant cost. 
 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Poyer/Edmunds dilemma.

 

Edmunds is going to be a gigantic hole in the middle of this defense. 

[NeverOutNick]

You nailed this! 100% agree with everything. Hopefully Beane reads this post and tomorrow morning Frazier is out and McDermott hands the reigns over to our new DC Brian Flores

[MasterStrategist]

Thanks @Alphadawg7, great post and insights!

 

Agree with alot of what you said.  I'd summarize by saying:

1. Top focus should be OL/WR.

2. Hope Beane doesn't waste cap on VERY good, but not great players who are gonna cost a ton (ie let Poyer, Edmunds walk)

3. Retool the defense: need more dynamic players up front and at S.  Need to keep spending picks, albeit 3rd-5th (not 1st/2nd) until they get this right at DL

4. Coordinators: to me, it's risking alot to let Dorsey and Frazier go.  Dorsey/Josh relationship is so strong, also high upside still there. Frazier is just a pure leader. Rather see them adapt their styles, however unlikely, it is needed.

5. Defense: like us to move to a dime defense on 3rd downs.  Just like RB has moved to a "committee", so has MLB for some teams that don't have a stud/dynamic 3-down type.  Get Benford or another draft pick some time, and limits our need for Edmunds...we waste guys like Neal/others that play <10% snaps (outside of specials).

 

If they can fix 1-2 spots on OL, add another key WR/weapon, diversify the offense/scheme, and Retool the DL/scheme...then we're looking at a team who can compete with anyone.

[Andy1]

While I generally agree with the OP, I believe shouting for coaching change(s) is pointless. Given the success of this team, I don’t see it happening. McDermott values Frazier and will keep him. Josh likes Dorsey and he will stay. Bean and the Pegulas likely appreciate what McDermott has accomplished and his leadership and likely want stability. 
 

Given that reality, the best we can hope for is growth and change of the coaches we have. Hopefully Bean sees the same problems we all do and figures out a way. We will find out based on their actions in free agency and the draft.

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The dust settled? It has? Is that what firing the Safeties coach meant? I sure as heck hope not!!

For real. I come on here hoping to read that we let one or both go. Why do we need to watch this team lose in almost the same fashion for yet another year?

[arcadia bob]

See the sean Payton question thread problem solved.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No it was never Devin's fault.  He stood no chance behind that awful line for 5 years. It's actually a good testament to him that his career yard average was that high.  Cook will be our finesse speed guy but as MAJBobby suggested,  grab Perine cheap for that short yardage power back. Less wear & tear on 17.

It’s a testament to the 6 man boxes he’s been seeing for the majority of his career . Singletary is as average as they come hardly ever creating on his own . We need an elite type back to take this offense to next level. 

[Xwnyer]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am sitting it an unusual position, and I don't like it.  The 3 previous playoff exits in 2021, 2020, and 2019 I was left feeling very excited and optimistic about the next year, like we were just getting started or had arrived.  

• 2019 - We had a 2 score lead at halftime, then a handful of self inflicted wounds, some REALLY BAD refs, cost us that game.  But we were so young and felt like we starting to arrive and on our way to being one of the best teams in the AFC.
• 2020 - we go 13-3 and make the AFCCG but it felt like we weren't quite on the Chiefs level yet after that loss.  But it did feel like we were nipping at their heels and just just a few tweaks away from over taking them as the top team in the AFC.
• 2021 - Allen, Davis, and the offense played out of their minds and gave so much hope for the next year.  Like it took a fluke miscommunication by the ST Coordinator for the Chiefs to get a small window to steal the game back, but we had shown we were now the better team.  It felt like we were the best team in football and could have beaten both the Bengals and then Rams in SB.  

 

But now this year, things feel different.  Instead of feeling like we are on our way to being the best team, or that we are the best team in the AFC...it now feels like we are firmly behind KC and Cincy right now with other teams nipping at our heels even as the 3rd best team, including ones in our own division.  And we are entering an offseason with key players on both sides of the ball as Free Agents, with a tight cap, and several holes to fill.  Complicating it further, two of our most expensive players have ACL tears impact their potential value to the team (Tre and Von).

 

That being said, it is not all doom and gloom, we are still a good team and are blessed to have Allen and Diggs still.  But we do have a lot of challenges and decisions facing us as we head into the offseason:

 

Before we even address the roster:

• Frazier and Dorsey likely back - Big mistake out the gate IMHO.
  • Frazier has given up 107 points and 1403 yards the last 3 playoff losses, that is inexcusable, not to mention the 13 second debacle.  Yes I know McD has a hand in the defensive system as well, but bringing in a new DC with new ideas and new ways to use players would still be a welcomed change.
  • Dorsey was clueless on how to use our personnel this year.  We only had 2 legit outside WR's and a roster full of slots, and yet he played an air it out deep ball game.
    • We drafted an undersized RB in 2nd round to catch passes then barely threw him the ball and instead ran draw plays with him.  We traded for Hines then gave him 10 touches.  We had a weak spot at slot and yet didn't get Shakir more touches and experience.  And of course we didn't run the ball. 
• Our schemes and roster are not built for severe weather conditions, and that is going to be tough for us to remedy if we are going to stay the course with the same systems that Frazier and Dorsey brought this year.  

 

Personnel Concerns:  

• We have a tight cap, and low round pick in each round.
• Poyer, Edmunds, and Devin are FA's - likely at least 2 gone, maybe all 3, creating new holes to fill while tight on cap space
• Von Miller - 34 and coming off ACL.  We already saw with Tre, it's no easy task to come back from this injury, and he is trying to do it at 34.  Big questions on when he will back as well as what kind of a player he can be, especially given he relies a lot on speed and quickness.  
• Offensive Line needs significant help, and we don't yet know if Morse will be back either.  Between age, concussion issues, and Hamlin scare, it would not surprise me to see him retire, and honestly, he probably should as he has had too many concussions over his career.  
• Need at least 1 more quality WR
• Secondary concerns - What kind of players will Tre and Hyde be next year?  Can Elam take over a starting spot?  Will Benford convert to Safety and how well will that transition go if he does?  Will Hamlin be back next year?
• I am not 100%, but I think Shaq is also a FA, and he was playing well for us...will he back if he is a FA?
• Right now, we are staring down the barrel of a tight cap situation while Cincy and our own divisional opponents continue to reap the benefits (as of now) of no big QB contract and will potentially have cap space to keep closing the gap while we will cap strapped and have existing holes and potentially new holes to fill with budget FA's and late in the round draft slots.

 

My thoughts based on the above info:

Bringing back both Dorsey and Frazier are only going to make next year harder IMO.  But based on what we have heard since the loss, it seems pretty probable they will both be back.  I think if we want any chance to contend next year come playoff time, we are going to need the offense and Josh Allen of 2021 to do it.  

• Invest significantly in protecting Allen along the OL, at least ONE of our first 2 picks better be OL and I would invest 2 in the first 4 rounds.  Would also see who we can add in FA.
• Get another legit WR opposite Diggs.  Explore a trade, free agent or just take a WR early, first or 2nd round, to help Josh.  Then commit to Shakir taking over the slot position.
• Cook is not physical, so go draft someone in mid rounds or sign someone like D'Onta Foreman at a bargain to be a more traditional runner (he can catch too) and let Cook play more of a Kamara role.  
• Expand Knox's role as a pass catcher like they did down the stretch.  Get back to using him in the redzone more.   
• Try moving Benford to Safety, which was what they considered when they drafted him in the first place.  
• Poyer and Edmunds - I am torn here.  On one hand, Poyers value is undeniable...but you got age and injury history now playing into the discussion, plus cap space.  Edmunds is easily coming off his best year and has been a major piece in our defense.  But cap space is tight, and having BOTH of them has not kept us from giving up 107 points and 1403 yards in our last 3 playoff losses.  
  • So, I think I am now leaning towards either let both walk, or keep Poyer on a short term deal and let Edmunds walk and use that cap space to invest as much as we can into protecting Josh and upgrading this offense.  
  • Look to replace Edmunds with a value add Free Agent and maybe try and find a young guy in the 3rd or 4th rounds potentially.  
• I would try and package Ed Oliver for a draft pick(s) or even a quality player at a position of need.  His impact is so dependent on the guys around him, he isn't consistently disrupting games and was just taken completely out of the game by Cincy's backup OL.  I can't see investing heavy into him the following season, so I would trade him for assets or a player that can help this team next year.  Our DT can be anchored by Phillips, Settle and Jones next year and not be any worse than its been the last 3 playoff losses.

   

This would be my offseason plan, although that is not entirely true...my offseason plan would be to move on from BOTH Frazier and Dorsey and give McD one last year to get us over the hump before he hits the hot seat too.  But, given it doesn't feel like either is going anywhere, I would say minimize our overhead on defense since it didn't help us the last 4 playoff exits and invest heavy into the offense.   Who we draft will be a direct reflection of who we sign in FA prior...for example, if we sign Foreman at RB that makes drafting a RB less of a priority.  

Not a pretty picture I really see a 8-9 season or worse coming unless Beane can work magic however Fraser and Dorsey are holding this team back.   

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Some Bills fans complaining about not reaching the SB.

Yet, this team just went went 13-3 this season!! In McD's six seasons as Buffalo Bills HC this team has been to the playoffs 5 of those 6 years. (Once with Tyrod Taylor at QB!) 9-7, 6-10, 13-3, 11-6, 13-3. McD is considered one of the best head coaches in the NFL. Bills GM Brandon Beane is considered by some to be the very best of the best in NFL GM's. Yet, I read over and over how some Bills fans want them both gone or replaced? By who? 

 

Chiefs HC Andy Reid is the biggest reason the Chiefs seem to always have a shot. In the ten years he has been there they have never had a losing season and have been in the playoffs nine of those ten seasons. Five of those seasons were with Alex Smith at QB. Reid is an offensive genius, won a SB and yet was smoked in the next SB by a swarming Buc's defense. With the Chiefs, the players change and the winning continues. 

 

Buffalo HC seems to be locked into Leslie Frazier's bend but don't break defense. Somehow whomever this team hires as an OC can't seem to build a decent ground game without involving the QB as the leading rusher. 

 

So, I'm not happy with either of the Buffalo Bills coordinators at this point. Although, let's look at what the offenses / defenses have looked like the last few seasons. 

 

2023, record 13-3 AFC East Champs

2023, offense #2 in points for, #2 in yards. 8th in passing attempts, 7th in passing yards, #2 in passing TDs. #15th in rush attempts,7th in rush yards, 15th in rush TDs. 

2023, defense #2 in points allowed, #6 in yards allowed. 

 

2022 record 11-6 AFC East Champs

2022, offense #3 in points, #5 in yards. QB Josh Allen playing perfect games in the playoffs!

2022, defense #1 in points allowed, #1 in yards allowed.

 

2021 record 13-3 AFC East Champs

2020, offense #2 in points, #2 in yards.

2020, defense #16 in points allowed, #14 in yards allowed

 

2019 record 10-6 AFC East Champs

2019, offense #23 in points, #24 in yards

2019, defense #2 in points allowed, #4 in yards allowed

 

Considering the trials this team endured this season. So many injuries to key players on defense and offense.  Josh with a bad elbow. The deadly Blizzard that caused so many problems besides needing to play a home game at Detroit. Cardiac arrest on the field where a Buffalo player nearly died. The Bills losing their star pass rusher for the season. Yeah, i can see where the emotions were drained at the end of the season. 

Amazing stuff dealing with all that and more. 

 

Now, consider that Andy Reid didn't get his Chiefs to the SB until his 7th season. I'd say Bills fans should give these Buffalo Bills coaches / GM some more time to do their jobs. I kind of think that they feel the losses just as badly as Bills fans do and perhaps even more because they see it in the players faces. 

 

After nearly two decades of being of missing the playoffs and being at the bottom or near last in the division... I know I'm ready to sit back and let Beane do his magic with the draft and free agency. Let McD get his team ready for 2023. All I want for the new season is a better offensive line, an actual dominant run game like the 49ers, Eagles have.

 

If I could do one thing...it might be to hire ex Ravens OC Greg Roman to be the new Buffalo run game coordinator to help build that O line and run game. Or someone else to help keep Josh in the pocket and let the RBs take the pounding. (yea, I know Josh hurt his elbow in the pocket) So, build him a better pocket! JMHO

Man I’m tired of the Reid didn’t make it till 7th yr talk. McD ain’t Reid mof how does Reid really feel about McD didn’t he fire him? At the end of the day Andy Reid is the exception not the rule and there’s more guys that couldn’t get it done like Marty or Riveria etc etc.  

 

I do agree 100% with bringing in Greg Roman that would be an amazing hire especially since there’s already no synchronization between the passing and running games which is beyond baffling to me. Maybe some type of marriage of Dorsey and Roman offense can be great or can be an absolute disaster lol. I would love to find out . 

[Billsfan1972]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

That was entirely readable compared to some of the ***** I see on this board

A couple of short notes
 

I think the damar Hamlin situation affected this team more than anybody wants to admit Saffold talking about not having any gas left may not have been physical. It may have been emotional.

 

I’m not gonna speak on the Defense in Fraser, because I expect more of the same there, but let’s keep in mind that the offensive coordinator was in his first year first year people do improve

 

As long as we have Josh Allen, we are never out of it

I believed that for the NE & Miami games, but by Cincy rang a bit hollow. 

 

The Bills were not ready.  I too blame the weather as the snow did affect Buffalo more than Cincy.  

[Bill from NYC]

Nice work AD!

1 hour ago, Xwnyer said:

Not a pretty picture I really see a 8-9 season or worse coming unless Beane can work magic however Fraser and Dorsey are holding this team back.   

I hope that McDermott doesn't screw up another draft and make the team worse.

[billsfan714]

The loss last year to the chiefs was more than a miscommunication by the the ST coordinator, it was coaching malpractice by our head coach who was a defensive coordinator prior and our defensive coordinator who played a outside contain prevent defense against a team with 2 timeouts.    Lets not absolve them of their responsibility in that fiasco.    Nice try at a whitewash.