Should we trade Ed Oliver?

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean Jordan Phillips is a bigger body than Ed Oliver. But there is zero doubt who is the superior run defender. It ain't Jordan. The question isn't "are there areas that the $10m can be used?" of course there are. The question is who are the guys that make the team legitimately better. Losing Ed to sign Dalton Risner does not. If you are losing Ed for a genuine offensive difference maker then it is a different conversation. 

 

We just have completely different opinions of Oliver it seems.  

 

He's not a difference maker, imo, and I'd rather bolster the OL than hope he finds himself in a contract year if everything around him goes perfectly.  

 

I'd rather sign a proven EDGE pass rusher like Frank Clark and then draft a big body DT on Day 2.  

 

I'd rather give OBJ 10M.

 

I'd rather send a pick out while moving Oliver to gain 5M in cap space in a Jeudy trade.  

 

Any of those options, and more, are more appealing than Ed Oliver at 10M. 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by SCBills

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We just have completely different opinions of Oliver it seems.  

 

He's not a difference maker, imo, and I'd rather bolster the OL than hope he finds himself in a contract year if everything around him goes perfectly.  

 

I'd rather sign a proven EDGE pass rusher like Frank Clark and then draft a big body DT on Day 2.  

 

I'd rather give OBJ 10M.

 

I'd rather send a pick out while moving Oliver to gain 5M in cap space in a Jeudy trade.  

 

Any of those options, and more, are more appealing than Ed Oliver at 10M. 

 

 

He is more of a difference maker than Dalton freaking Risner. Or Frank Clark at his age FWIW.

 

If we are getting Jeudy in exchange I am here for it. 

 

I don't think it makes any difference on OBJ. If he wants to come Ed Oliver isn't stopping them signing him. He just seems to be happy in this holding pattern. I dunno how much he wants to play again personally.

Edited March 23, 2023 by GunnerBill

[nosejob]

Denver doesn't really want to move Jeudy. Hopkins is getting up there, although would love to add him.

 

But what if Campbell and Sanders are gone by 27? Could we flip Ed for a 3rd rounder then trade to Balt. for Patrick Queen who looks to be a pro bowler for years to come? They signed R. Smith to 100 mil. and tagged the dummy. They have until May 1st to decide to pick up his 5th yr. They can't afford all that and Queen ain't happy.

 

They can pay Ford and give Queen a new contract that could keep the hit down and have the money left over for Ford. That would allow them to go all in on offense although an Edge like Isaiah Foskey at 59 would be cool.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by nosejob

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, nosejob said:

Denver doesn't really want to move Jeudy. Hopkins is getting up there, although would love to add him.

 

But what if Campbell and Sanders are gone by 27? Could we flip Ed for a 3rd rounder then trade to Balt. for Patrick Queen who looks to be a pro bowler for years to come? They signed R. Smith to 100 mil. and tagged the dummy. They have until May 1st to decide to pick up his 5th yr. They can't afford all that and Queen ain't happy.

 

They can pay Ford and give Queen a new contract that could keep the hit down and have the money left over for Ford. That would allow them to go all in on offense.

 

Queen is bad.  The player and the band, there I said it, both suck.

[SectionC3]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not quite. If you can find a difference maker on offense I am all for trading Ed. What I am not for doing is trading him for a draft pick to dump salary and then scouting about trying to find a way to use that money. If they do it as two simultaneous deals, fine. But dumping Ed's salary for a draft pick in this draft just so you can use that salary on a trade for an offensive player is a) very risky and b) still equates to selling way to low on an asset. 

 

The sensible play is to try and use Ed as a pawn in a deal to get your offensive piece. 

Like I said, I’m not advocating doing something on spec.  I don’t agree with your premise in (b) because I don’t know what the pick would be.  I agree with the premise in your last sentence; I think you and I maybe are speaking different languages inasmuch as I allow for a three-team scenario in which the movement of Oliver creates space/asset to be dedicated to the rostering of a different player at a different position and I’m not sure if you’re as open to that scenario. 

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is more of a difference maker than Dalton freaking Risner. Or Frank Clark at his age FWIW.

 

If we are getting Jeudy in exchange I am here for it. 

 

I don't think it makes any difference on OBJ. If he wants to come Ed Oliver isn't stopping them signing him. He just seems to be happy in this holding pattern. I dunno how much he wants to play again personally.

 I have that vibe from OBJ, too.  I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he never plays another down of football. 

[nosejob]

41 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Queen is bad.  The player and the band, there I said it, both suck.

117 Tackles   5 Sacks   1 FF   2 FR    9.5 TFL  6 PD   2 INT.  Year 3  28TH PICK RD. 1 2020   Name 1 LB in this yrs. draft that you could expect that from.....we'd be lucky to get one of the top 3 and that would have to be at 27,  not to mention this could be a draft day deal.

 

EDIT: My bad I just got that.

Edited March 23, 2023 by nosejob

[Warriorspikes51]

17 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Like I said, I’m not advocating doing something on spec.  I don’t agree with your premise in (b) because I don’t know what the pick would be.  I agree with the premise in your last sentence; I think you and I maybe are speaking different languages inasmuch as I allow for a three-team scenario in which the movement of Oliver creates space/asset to be dedicated to the rostering of a different player at a different position and I’m not sure if you’re as open to that scenario. 

 I have that vibe from OBJ, too.  I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he never plays another down of football. 

 

Ah yes, that must be why he's worked his tail off and had half the NFL teams represented to watch his workout and route running. His explosiveness off the line was  clearly apparent. 

Man what is it with fans and media?  a guy hits 30 in sports and suddenly his career is over?  Just absurd 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Ah yes, that must be why he's worked his tail off and had half the NFL teams represented to watch his workout and route running. His explosiveness off the line was  clearly apparent. 

And he'll be a Jet before the day is over.

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

And he'll be a Jet before the day is over.

I would guess he won't sign with them until Rodgers is actually acquired. The longer it goes, more it looks like NYJ

[Bob in STL]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:30 PM, thenorthremembers said:

We should yes but who is paying 10.5 million dollars, a contract extension and any kind of draft pick for 2 sacks?

Houston? 
 

Maybe he can go home and do better.  

[SectionC3]

23 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Ah yes, that must be why he's worked his tail off and had half the NFL teams represented to watch his workout and route running. His explosiveness off the line was  clearly apparent. 

Man what is it with fans and media?  a guy hits 30 in sports and suddenly his career is over?  Just absurd 

 

Better put:  he may want to play football, but only for an absurd price that likely will not be met, especially now that the first wave or two of FA has passed.  

[iinii]

On 1/25/2023 at 7:43 PM, Floridagatorsbuffalobills said:

Anyone else think Ed Oliver could be on the trading block this off-season? I can see it happening. I think McDermott and Beane know Oliver has underperformed and want to get bigger upfront. 

They did not give him a ringing endorsement yesterday in the PC.

 

He’s listed at 6’1 287, and I think the defense needs that 6’2 320lb DT in the middle of the defense. 

I think they know there is going to be a lot of expectations next year and have to get agressive with their FA’s and draft picks and maybe getting rid of 1-2 players that haven’t played to the level they want. 

 

I’m not sure what his trade value is, probably a 3rd or 4th rounder? He has hasn’t been terrible, just think he’s not a fit as a 1 tech taking on double teams.

I just think we have to make 1-2 trades this year to make the jump our fan base and front office knows has to be made. The Rams did it two years ago, the Eagles did it this year, the 49ers did it this year, it’s time to trade draft picks for proven players. 

 

Imagine what AJ Brown would have done for our offense like it did to Philly’s this year.

He is definitely no Ted Washington. 

[SectionC3]

15 minutes ago, iinii said:

He is definitely no Ted Washington. 

Few are.  I learned of TurDuckEn because of Ted Washington. 

[iinii]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

Few are.  I learned of TurDuckEn because of Ted Washington. 

Fi true! I remember him tying up three guys once while on one knee. True definition of a BEAST!

[Mark Vader]

31 minutes ago, iinii said:

He is definitely no Ted Washington. 

Few players are.

[Pirate Angel]

2.5 sacks, 20 solo tackles for 10 Mill??? He was the biggest disappointment in that Cinci game, .5 tackles vs backups

[RocCityRoller]

Yes, get something for him

 

he will not be re-signed here.

[Locomark]

14 hours ago, nosejob said:

Denver doesn't really want to move Jeudy. Hopkins is getting up there, although would love to add him.

 

But what if Campbell and Sanders are gone by 27? Could we flip Ed for a 3rd rounder then trade to Balt. for Patrick Queen who looks to be a pro bowler for years to come? They signed R. Smith to 100 mil. and tagged the dummy. They have until May 1st to decide to pick up his 5th yr. They can't afford all that and Queen ain't happy.

 

They can pay Ford and give Queen a new contract that could keep the hit down and have the money left over for Ford. That would allow them to go all in on offense although an Edge like Isaiah Foskey at 59 would be cool.

 

Patrick Queen avoids contact more than any MLB I have seen. He makes our departed MLB look like  Dick Butkus. He plays like a free Safety. No thanks! 

[nosejob]

7 hours ago, Locomark said:

Patrick Queen avoids contact more than any MLB I have seen. He makes our departed MLB look like  Dick Butkus. He plays like a free Safety. No thanks! 

117 TKL  5 SK 6 PD 2INT 9.5 TFL  1FF 2FR...and I'm sure I'm missing something.,,,and that's year 3. A 1st rd (no.28) pick that could possibly be had for a mid rd. pick.  I wouldn't compare him to Edmunds in no way.

[BillsFan2313]

14 minutes ago, nosejob said:

117 TKL  5 SK 6 PD 2INT 9.5 TFL  1FF 2FR...and I'm sure I'm missing something.,,,and that's year 3. A 1st rd (no.28) pick that could possibly be had for a mid rd. pick.  I wouldn't compare him to Edmunds in no way.

 

All this with "avoiding" contact. Patrick Queen is a magician.

[TheFunPolice]

20 hours ago, iinii said:

Fi true! I remember him tying up three guys once while on one knee. True definition of a BEAST!

 

Ted Washington is an absolute legend, and pretty much my ideal DT.

 

Having him was like parking a car in the middle of the DL. He couldn't be moved. 

[GreggTX]

I actually saw a Bears podcast where they asked about trading the #9 pick for Oliver. I know they aren't that foolish though. I'd be all for that move!

 

[nosejob]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I actually saw a Bears podcast where they asked about trading the #9 pick for Oliver. I know they aren't that foolish though. I'd be all for that move!

 

Yeah I don't see that however, here are some targets to shoot for in a trade:

 

Bears Rd. 2  53/61  Rd. 4. 103/133  Rd. 5 136/148  They also have 2 7ths.

 

Texans Rd. 3 65/73  They also have 3 6ths

 

Lions Rd. 2   48/55  ( which would put us ahead of the Steelers 3rd pick.) They also have 2 6ths

 

Since it's highly doubtful they keep Ed after this year, Now (or draft day) is the time to move him and get the greatest return. I say now. Get the ammo to get Hopkins and Patrick Queen from the Ravens. One could be had for a mid rd. pick and a conditional pick next year and the other could be had with a mid rd.

 

The trade for Queen being a draft day deal if LB quickly becomes slim pickins.

 

Something needs to happen. We at least have to get Hopkins and we can get his cap hit under 5 mil. this yr.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by nosejob

[Riverboat Ritchie]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I actually saw a Bears podcast where they asked about trading the #9 pick for Oliver. I know they aren't that foolish though. I'd be all for that move!

 

I bet it is Oliver and swapping picks. I think that would work. Then use our second for Hopkins. 

[Chaos]

On 3/23/2023 at 3:33 AM, GunnerBill said:

You shouldn't "get nothing" though if you keep Ed a year. He will get a good free agent contract and you will get a pick back. Unless of course you ruin that with a load of mid tier FAs who mean nothing.

If you "get nothing" but unload 10 mm of salary cap, hypothectically that space might be better utilized in 2023.  Is 10.7 million of cap space in 2023 more or less valuable than a third round 2024 or 2025 third round comp pick. 

[Billz4ever]

6 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I actually saw a Bears podcast where they asked about trading the #9 pick for Oliver. I know they aren't that foolish though. I'd be all for that move!

 

We took him at #9 and at the time, he was actually rated at a high first round pick.

 

If 4 drafts later, the Bears would voluntarily give up the #9 pick to get him after seeing his production since being drafted, they should start mandatory drug testing of GMs.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Chaos]

@GunnerBill what are you disagreeing with? It is a question. 

42 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Is 10.7 million of cap space in 2023 more or less valuable than a third round 2024 or 2025 third round comp pick

 

 

[Nephilim17]

52 minutes ago, Chaos said:

If you "get nothing" but unload 10 mm of salary cap, hypothectically that space might be better utilized in 2023.  Is 10.7 million of cap space in 2023 more or less valuable than a third round 2024 or 2025 third round comp pick. 

It's not $10.7 million after you factor in his replacement.

Who replaces Ed and how much does he cost? If you can get the same production from a $5 million player, you save $5 million. But I'm not sure we can.

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

It's not $10.7 million after you factor in his replacement.

Who replaces Ed and how much does he cost? If you can get the same production from a $5 million player, you save $5 million. But I'm not sure we can.

That is exactly my question. What is optimal? If Oliver at 10.7 makes the team the best it can be with that money, then you don't trade him for nothing. If an replacement is available for $3 million and you can you 7.7 million to sign Bobby Wagner, then maybe trading Oliver for nothing would work. 

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

It's not $10.7 million after you factor in his replacement.

Who replaces Ed and how much does he cost? If you can get the same production from a $5 million player, you save $5 million. But I'm not sure we can.

Why do we need “same” production?

 

Id be perfectly fine if we sign Calais Campbell and then draft a guy on Day 2.  
 

Jones - Campbell - Settle - Benton (?)

 

Especially if they truly are contemplating going with Bernard at MLB.   Put big bodies in front of him. 

[Nephilim17]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

That is exactly my question. What is optimal? If Oliver at 10.7 makes the team the best it can be with that money, then you don't trade him for nothing. If an replacement is available for $3 million and you can you 7.7 million to sign Bobby Wagner, then maybe trading Oliver for nothing would work. 

If the team really likes someone in the draft they think will be there, say, in the fourth round, I can see this working — though assuming a player you like in the draft will be there when he's "value" is always a risk. 

I get that more money to spend somewhere else helps, like MLB, but the interior D-line is vital; who do you like in free agency that can reasonably do most of what Ed does at a lower cost?

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Why do we need “same” production?

 

Id be perfectly fine if we sign Calais Campbell and then draft a guy on Day 2.  
 

Jones - Campbell - Settle - Benton (?)

 

Especially if they truly are contemplating going with Bernard at MLB.   Put big bodies in front of him. 

Well, I think we need close to the same production because the QBs we struggle with can unload the ball in a hurry and inside pressure may be the best way to get to them.

How much did Campbell play DT (versus DE) recently? If he can fill in middle and do a good job for $2 million, sure. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

If the team really likes someone in the draft they think will be there, say, in the fourth round, I can see this working — though assuming a player you like in the draft will be there when he's "value" is always a risk. 

I get that more money to spend somewhere else helps, like MLB, but the interior D-line is vital; who do you like in free agency that can reasonably do most of what Ed does at a lower cost?

Well, I think we need close to the same production because the QBs we struggle with can unload the ball in a hurry and inside pressure may be the best way to get to them.

How much did Campbell play DT (versus DE) recently? If he can fill in middle and do a good job for $2 million, sure. 

Everything I’ve heard says Campbell would be a DT for us.  Im not sure what he’s done recently, except that he can still play at a decent level. 
 

I hear what you’re saying about quick interior pressure, but Oliver doesn’t even give us that … certainly not consistently or in big moments. 

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Chaos said:

@GunnerBill what are you disagreeing with? It is a question. 

 

 

I have already answered that question in the thread. 

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have already answered that question in the thread. 

You answered the question "what are you disagreeing with?"?

[3rdand12]

50 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Why do we need “same” production?

 

Id be perfectly fine if we sign Calais Campbell and then draft a guy on Day 2.  
 

Jones - Campbell - Settle - Benton (?)

 

Especially if they truly are contemplating going with Bernard at MLB.   Put big bodies in front of him. 

Good post. Saw they are looking at the OLD MAN Calais
 If he can do what Jones and Settle did in the middle? we might be okay
Buts its a change in method for Bills
One I like though.
Immovable objects are MLB best friend  

43 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Everything I’ve heard says Campbell would be a DT for us.  Im not sure what he’s done recently, except that he can still play at a decent level. 
 

I hear what you’re saying about quick interior pressure, but Oliver doesn’t even give us that … certainly not consistently or in big moments. 

just know what the passing lanes are and when to get a hand up.
Big guys should and can do that

Edited March 25, 2023 by 3rdand12

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Chaos said:

You answered the question "what are you disagreeing with?"?

 

No I was disagreeing with the concept. I get it you posed it as a question. I didn't respond directly to the question because my view on that is elsewhere in the thread. 

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I was disagreeing with the concept. I get it you posed it as a question. I didn't respond directly to the question because my view on that is elsewhere in the thread. 

Honestly this makes no sense to me. I don't think you answered the question anywhere of whether 10.7 million of cap space is worth more than a 2025 third round comp pick in any direct way.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Honestly this makes no sense to me. I don't think you answered the question anywhere of whether 10.7 million of cap space is worth more than a 2025 third round comp pick in any direct way.

 

I did. 

[Solomon Grundy]

On 3/24/2023 at 11:31 AM, TheFunPolice said:

 

Ted Washington is an absolute legend, and pretty much my ideal DT.

 

Having him was like parking a car in the middle of the DL. He couldn't be moved. 

Pat Williams and Sam Adams were beasts also