Was Micah Hyde's injury the key to the Bills' season?

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Is coaching talent not just as much a part of the game as physical talent and is a factor included in the evaluation of a team's overall talent level?

 

Do you think the Bills would've been basically unanimous favorites coming into this season if those people making those calls though our coaching staff were a bunch of idiots?  It's all factored into that grade.  

 

The Bills were also dominated at the LOS on both sides of the ball.  When the Cincy defenders were getting pressure with just a 4 or even a 3-man rush, that's more than just getting out coached.  There's physical talent involved there.

 

When our defensive line is getting blown off the ball and we can't stop the run even when we know they're running it, that's not just being out coached. There's a physical talent factor there. Ditto with not being able to get pressure on the opposing QB.  As McD said, this game starts with the trenches and when you are losing that battle badly on both sides of the ball, it's not just coaching.

Not letting the Bills players off the hook, but don’t confuse talent with performance and effort. An OL starting 3 backups isn’t going to flat out beat you with talent. The Bengals pressures worked largely due to Dorsey’s insistence on slow developing plays in poor conditions. The Bills offense should have been similar to Cincinnati’s : quick throws short of the sticks with blockers ahead. The day called for getting the ball into the hands of Diggs, Knox and Beasley quickly. Designed runs for Allen mixed in. The Bills got beaten by a sound scheme executed well by players not asked to do too much. Not an uber-talented juggernaut. A sensible offensive game plan by the Bills would have produced the close game most expected, and possibly a win. I won’t bother supposing a more aggressive defensive game plan because while the Ravens showed it to be a sound strategy, we knew McFrazier would reject the concept. 

[Awwufelloff]

We scored 10 pts. 

[Southern_Bills]

11 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Gameplan against the 2022/3 Bengals with Joe Burrow and 4 guys who can catch the ball:  Play 15 yards off LoS, give up a first down every play.  Eventually, WRs get tired, THEN WE STRIKE!!!

 

Yes, eventually they will be so tired of gaining yards they will get bored and lose focus!

2 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

We scored 10 pts. 

 

The offensive gameplan was just as bad as the defensive one. Defense gave up 30+ first downs and the offense made a living on 3 and out.

 

It was horrible from opening play to the final one.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not letting the Bills players off the hook, but don’t confuse talent with performance and effort. An OL starting 3 backups isn’t going to flat out beat you with talent. The Bengals pressures worked largely due to Dorsey’s insistence on slow developing plays in poor conditions. The Bills offense should have been similar to Cincinnati’s : quick throws short of the sticks with blockers ahead. The day called for getting the ball into the hands of Diggs, Knox and Beasley quickly. Designed runs for Allen mixed in. The Bills got beaten by a sound scheme executed well by players not asked to do too much. Not an uber-talented juggernaut. A sensible offensive game plan by the Bills would have produced the close game most expected, and possibly a win. I won’t bother supposing a more aggressive defensive game plan because while the Ravens showed it to be a sound strategy, we knew McFrazier would reject the concept. 

So you're saying they have more coaching talent than we do? If so, that's as big a factor in winning or losing as physical talent is.  Taking the totality of the two, it was clear to me at least that Cincy is the better team.  

[mjt328]

Micah Hyde was the first domino to fall.  But his loss definitely wasn't the only reason this team fell short.

There were multiple nagging issues that plagued this team all-season on both sides of the ball.  The fact that we kept pulling out close wins caused lots of fans to gloss over the problems.  

 

By about Week 4-5 you could already tell that:

1.  The O-Line was still a big problem

2.  Gabe Davis was having trouble adapting to the #2 role

3.  The slot WR position was going to be a liability

4.  Ken Dorsey was struggling as a first-year play caller

 

Tre White returning a step slower, and then losing Von Miller on Thanksgiving were probably the nails in the coffin.

That killed our pass rush, in addition to us having big holes in the secondary.  

 

With that said... I'm don't think a 100% healthy Bills defense would have made it to the Super Bowl either.  Sunday solidified that coaching is indeed a big problem for us in the postseason.  Either philosophy needs to change, or somebody needs to go, for us to ever take the next step.

 

[TampaBillsJunkie]

Tre was the first casualty, then Hyde was a big hit. Von broke the ship open and Jones sunk it.  Those four were the backbone of our D, along with Milano (who also missed some time)  It was the sum of all parts. We could win if one or maybe even 2 of those guys goes down, but 4... Too much! 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

So you're saying they have more coaching talent than we do? If so, that's as big a factor in winning or losing as physical talent is.  Taking the totality of the two, it was clear to me at least that Cincy is the better team.  

Not talking about “ coaching talent”, no. If you want to extrapolate that from the common sports nomenclature of being “ outcoached” feel free. I mean that the Bengals coaches got us that day, and I can’t take that away from them. I don’t think  our staff put forth their best work. I don’t follow the Bengals closely, but I know they had one more loss than the Bills did at seasons end. I’ve seen better work by the Bills staff than I saw on Sunday. It was probably the worst game plan I’ve seen this season and possibly in quite some time. As for players , I do not consider the Bengals to be vastly different in terms of talent than the Bills. 

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not talking about “ coaching talent”, no. If you want to extrapolate that from the common sports nomenclature of being “ outcoached” feel free. I mean that the Bengals coaches got us that day, and I can’t take that away from them. I don’t think  our staff put forth their best work. I don’t follow the Bengals closely, but I know they had one more loss than the Bills did at seasons end. I’ve seen better work by the Bills staff than I saw on Sunday. It was probably the worst game plan I’ve seen this season and possibly in quite some time. As for players , I do not consider the Bengals to be vastly different in terms of talent than the Bills. 

At the end of the day, whether you want to attribute it to coaching, talent, weather, or just luck, the Bills were beaten and beaten badly on both sides of the ball.  The final score isn't even a good indication of how bad they got beat and if they played again tomorrow, I'm not expecting a different outcome because the Bills are still more than likely to get owned in the trenches again.

 

I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Southern_Bills]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not talking about “ coaching talent”, no. If you want to extrapolate that from the common sports nomenclature of being “ outcoached” feel free. I mean that the Bengals coaches got us that day, and I can’t take that away from them. I don’t think  our staff put forth their best work. I don’t follow the Bengals closely, but I know they had one more loss than the Bills did at seasons end. I’ve seen better work by the Bills staff than I saw on Sunday. It was probably the worst game plan I’ve seen this season and possibly in quite some time. As for players , I do not consider the Bengals to be vastly different in terms of talent than the Bills. 

 

I agree but this is season #2 that has ended on bad coaching.  The first time we played KC in the AFCCG I do feel we were not as good as them on a team level.

 

So if we keep these same coaches how many chances do they get to "get it right" in the playoffs? 

 

You only get so many years, wasting them on unprepared coaches is unacceptable. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

At the end of the day, whether you want to attribute it to coaching, talent, weather, or just luck, the Bills were beaten and beaten badly on both sides of the ball.  The final score isn't even a good indication of how bad they got beat and if they played again tomorrow, I'm not expecting a different outcome because the Bills are still more than likely to get owned in the trenches again.

There were many factors, but with a different offensive approach and overall effort I absolutely would expect a different outcome. Not much you can do about the conditions but you should devise a game plan that reflects them. The Bengals did that.  Played in the same conditions with the identical game plans used Sunday I would expect similar results 8 times out of 10. Kind of like that old saying about insanity. 

[Billz4ever]

14 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

There were many factors, but with a different offensive approach and overall effort I absolutely would expect a different outcome. Not much you can do about the conditions but you should devise a game plan that reflects them. The Bengals did that.  Played in the same conditions with the identical game plans used Sunday I would expect similar results 8 times out of 10. Kind of like that old saying about insanity. 

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's one that's clearly in the minority here.  Beane himself today said he think the Bills are behind both Cincy and KC in the AFC.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Billz4ever

[blacklabel]

Losing Hyde hurt but with Poyer back there they still had a vet presence to lead the younger guys. And then Tre eventually returned as well so at least the secondary had that. 

 

The day they said Von Miller's season was over I felt like their championship aspirations got much more difficult. Outside of Von there's simply nobody on that DL that offensives really have to focus on. And they eventually just ran outta gas. 

[Boatdrinks]

31 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's one that's clearly in the minority here.  Beane himself today said he think the Bills are behind both Cincy and KC in the AFC.

Of course he’d have to say that because they lost the game. What’s he going to say ; they’re ahead of Cincinnati? Do I believe they’re vastly different in talent ? No. I doubt Beane  thinks he needs 4 1st round picks to beat the Bengals either.  Thanks for letting me know I’m entitled to my own opinion. 

[Stuartjohn]

The Bills got manhandled UP FRONT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE LINE PLAIN & SIMPLE!

[Boatdrinks]

50 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

I agree but this is season #2 that has ended on bad coaching.  The first time we played KC in the AFCCG I do feel we were not as good as them on a team level.

 

So if we keep these same coaches how many chances do they get to "get it right" in the playoffs? 

 

You only get so many years, wasting them on unprepared coaches is unacceptable. 

They need to make some changes to the staff , mostly to the defensive side imo. They’ve been mostly disappointing on defense in the playoffs thus far. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Stuartjohn said:

The Bills got manhandled UP FRONT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE LINE PLAIN & SIMPLE!

And while we all saw it happening the coaches did absolutely nothing to adjust for it. 

[Logic]

I think the combination of Von Miller and Micah Hyde's injuries were the keys to the season.

I think you can make up for lack of pass rush production if you have an elite secondary, and you can make up for lack of an elite secondary with good pass rush production. When you lack both, though, it shows.

I think that if Hyde had played all season, the Bills would have lost AT LEAST one less game, and that alone would have given them a bye week and home field in the playoffs. That may or may not have been enough to get the Bills to the Super Bowl. 

Generally speaking, it's probably overly simplistic to say that any one players being lost for the season (or even two players being lost for the season) is THE defining factor in a season. Stretches of offensive ineffectiveness, stretches of less-than-ideal Josh Allen decision making, questionable coaching decisions in big moments -- all of these can be pointed to when talking about the downfall of the 2022 season.

Still, it's hard not to think that Hyde and Miller being out played a very large role in the final outcome. Most teams can't lose two players of that quality and simply keep rolling, full steam ahead.

[Billz4ever]

10 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Of course he’d have to say that because they lost the game. What’s he going to say ; they’re ahead of Cincinnati? Do I believe they’re vastly different in talent ? No. I doubt Beane  thinks he needs 4 1st round picks to beat the Bengals either.  Thanks for letting me know I’m entitled to my own opinion. 

Why would he have to say that?  He could be just like you and basically claim we beat ourselves, despite the fact we were physically dominated (and out coached) up and down the field.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Boatdrinks]

24 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Why would he have to say that?  He could be just like you and basically claim we beat ourselves, despite the fact we were physically dominated (and out coached) up and down the field.

Easy : GM speak. Humility is in order when you’ve lost , unless you want to come off as a blowhard. However, you have to read between the lines in these media type situations. He saw what happened, but I guarantee he doesn’t think he needs a whole new defensive line. An across the board terrible performance doesn’t mean everyone gets replaced. It doesn’t mean the Bengals are 17 points better than you. 

[colin]

von millers was 100x bigger.

 

allens' was big, it seems to ahve changed his confidence, and that hurt the whole team.

 

in all honestly, it was hamlin's.  aside from it being a life and death situation, the team hasn't had any heart since.  maybe a motivated bills team gets beaten in cinci and then in the playoffs goes back there and wins, or at least doesn't put up the gutless stinker we did.  also keep in mind we had bad sloppy gaves vs NE and miami, at home.

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

On reflection, I've come to the theory that Micah Hyde's injury is why the Bills aren't moving on. There can be other reasons, of course, but I believe that if Hyde hadn't gotten hurt, that alone would have changed many things.

 

Had Hyde not been injured, he would have been there to knock down the pass to Justin Jefferson; Cam Lewis wouldn't have been playing. This alone makes Bills the #1 seed, with a bye, a win over Jacksonville, and waiting to play the winner of CIN-KC in the AFCCG.

 

Furthermore, if Hyde isn't hurt, Hamlin isn't playing and never gets hurt against Cincinnati. As a result, even if CIN beat KC in the theoretical matchup above, they wouldn't be coming in here with the motivation of the coin toss, ticket sales, etc. because none of that would've happened. Even more importantly, the Bills would be well rested, not having endured the emotional toll that caused them to run out of gas on Sunday.

 

The fact that Micah would have played next week had the Bills won on Sunday just makes it even more fascinating.

No! 

 

We were MASSIVELY outreached against the Bengals.

 

We always will be at the end of the season, that's when you run into the best teams with the best coaches.

 

You can really only measure McDermott with playoff football.

 

 

[ShakAttack]

On the one hand, it seems like it is inevitable we are going to have less talent on the roster next season, because of Free Agents and the cap hits from our top players.

 

On the other hand, it's not like we had all of that talent at our disposal by the time the season ended.  So, if key players are just more healthy than last season, how much are you really losing compared to where you were at the end of this season?  There shouldn't be much of an overall drop-off in talent compared to where we were this season, even if we lost Edmunds & Poyer, for instance.

 

You'd have Hyde, Miller and (ideally) a healthier Tre White.  You'd also have an entire off-season to find a safety to replace Poyer instead of having to deal with it in the middle of the season.

 

It's definitely going to be our most important draft since 2018, and it'll be a bigger challenge because unlike 2018, we don't have high picks and lots of draft capital.

 

Another thought... during Beane's presser when he mentioned that lots of Bills players were out there playing "Really banged up", I thought, man... in some cases, if a guy is THAT banged up, would it not be better to consider playing someone fresh?  The next guy up?  Against a bunch of dudes that are definitely hurting from wear and tear during the season too?  Of course, this is depending on who we are talking about too.   I couldn't help but think about it, again, with the way the 2nd/3rd string Bengals oline dominated our dline (granted, we were technically missing 2 starters on our DLine too in Von and Daquan)   and also the way Cole Beasley has looked... even at his age... he just looked more healthy and fresh than most of our other receivers because of the fact he didn't go through all of that wear and tear during the season.  I don't know, I just feel like their might be something to stashing a few players / using them lightly during the regular season and then unleashing them in the playoffs.   I think a lot of us hoped for that with Nyheim Hines, for instance.  

[BuffaloMatt]

It was the lofty expectations. The unknow variables, timing, injuries, The cosmos.

 

That's why it is so hard to get to the SB much less win it.

 

The reality is the Bills weren't the team to win it this year for a multitude of reasons (some mentioned above). 

 

Also, let's talk about being honest with ourselves as a fanbase. Does the Bills defense stop either NFC team? AND does this OL stop either NFC team's pass rush/DL from killing JA/stuffing the run?

 

Answer - unlikely to both. 

 

They were a real good team, played great at times. Just not our year. 

 

Damn Cosmos . . . 

[BillsPride12]

2 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

Yes, eventually they will be so tired of gaining yards they will get bored and lose focus!

 

The offensive gameplan was just as bad as the defensive one. Defense gave up 30+ first downs and the offense made a living on 3 and out.

 

It was horrible from opening play to the final one.

Reminds me of a quote from my little league football coach as a kid after a really bad loss...."Well we did one thing good today...we lost as a team" 

[wettlaufer]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

His faults as a pet are your failures as an owner. 

 

This is where the dog smothers the owner when the owner genuflects and asks forgiveness.

[Southern_Bills]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

They need to make some changes to the staff , mostly to the defensive side imo. They’ve been mostly disappointing on defense in the playoffs thus far. 

 

The offensive plan on Sunday was...well offensive to say the least. Is keep McDermott but after that anyone is fair game.

[Momma Pecoraro]

What's the cap hit for cutting Hyde? He's broken and expensive and along with Poyer, part of the past.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Momma Pecoraro

[Drew21PA]

5 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Von Miller 

Yep this was their ace card and it blew up in their faces.

 

other guys should be able to step up but failed terribly 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

 The uproar over Sunday's loss I get to a point. The low energy, bad offensive play & play calling I get. But we faced the best WR trio in the league, one of the better QBs in the league with a defense that was down a x2 All-Pro Free Safety & a x7 All-Pro LBer. On top of that our Strong Safety, who was 1st team All-Pro last year and our x2 All-Pro CB were both playing on one leg. On top of that Jones was out and Phillips was playing with 1 arm. That doesn't count Josh, who I think was still playing hurt.

 

 There's never a right or wrong player to get hurt, but man did all the wrong ones on defense go down. That's too much talent to be down at any one time. If it wasn't the offense or the Cincy game this week, it was coming soon after. What a sh!tty year to have a bunch of impactful injuries. I wish we were as healthy as we were last year. Imo this year's team would've been able to absorb just a Tre White injury, like we had last postseason. Provided Josh was 100% healthy.