Ravens @ Bengals - Game thread

[Billz4ever]

18 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

It’s a fair point honestly. Coin flip is nonsense but cincy fans can make the neutral field argument

Not really if they use the same logic that was used when the league gave KC the #1 seed and the bye.  The league basically said the game never happened, so they went off winning percentage.  KC gets the bye because they had one more win.

 

The Bills were already a game up on Cincy when the game was cancelled, so the Bills get homefield against every team but KC.

 

If the Bills did not have home field against Cincy, they would've gotten completely screwed in that deal.

 

Not only do they not get the bye, they then have to play Cincy on a neutral field  when going into that game the Bills were the only team that controlled their own destiny.  

Edited January 16, 2023 by Billz4ever

[CoudyBills]

25 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Burrow is down 3/5 of his line.

 

Bengals took a good bit of injuries. 
 

Now wondering when we play them. 

I'm good with Tuesday at noon.

[appoo]

I don’t accept the premise that the Ravens have significantly better, or even better, defense than the Bills

 

Using DVOA, Bills are 4th and Ravens 7th

[Straight Hucklebuck]

11 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Ravens were competitive against the Bengals because of coaching, run game, defense, and physicality. All superior to the Bills.

I agree the Bills don’t have the Ravens personnel at the corners. The Bills don’t play that physical.

 

I worry about Tre White.

 

I don’t know what they do with Chase.

 

Edmunds and Milano side to side will be critical.

 

Have to hope that Cappa can’t make it back and Jonah Williams is out. 

But, Cincinnati didn’t do anything on defense that scared me. They allowed long Ravens drives, Huntley is inaccurate and he made throws, the Ravens (when not trying to sweep to the left) were able to get yards. 

 

 

[billsbackto81]

16 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

Lol, come on now. He completed 40% of his passes, 4.9 ypa and had a passer rating of 44.7.

 

 

 

I said decent...not sensational😂

[CoudyBills]

Just now, appoo said:

I don’t accept the premise that the Ravens have significantly better, or even better, defense than the Bills

 

Using DVOA, Bills are 4th and Ravens 7th

Both of the defenses on the field tonight seem to have more nastiness to them than the Bills.  Hopefully Phillips can play?  He brings some of that attitude.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, Airseven said:

You’re thinking of the bizarre QB sneak, I get it. I’ll give you a point. But how are the Bills better than the Ravens defensively, physically, or in ball control/run game? 

They’re not.

 

But the Bills are more capable offensively and the Bengals were not overly impressive at stopping long drives.

 

Will Josh be patient enough? 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, appoo said:

I don’t accept the premise that the Ravens have significantly better, or even better, defense than the Bills

 

Using DVOA, Bills are 4th and Ravens 7th

I think it was pretty clear in this game that Baltimore has the better pass rush and that was a huge difference in the drives Cincy had to punt.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, CoudyBills said:

Both of the defenses on the field tonight seem to have more nastiness to them than the Bills.  Hopefully Phillips can play?  He brings some of that attitude.

I think he has a torn labrum, so I don’t see how he helps the rest of the year.

 

He really hasn’t done much since Week One, outside of a TFL in Chicago. 

[SCBills]

14 minutes ago, Airseven said:

You’re thinking of the bizarre QB sneak, I get it. I’ll give you a point. But how are the Bills better than the Ravens defensively, physically, or in ball control/run game? 

Bills have the personnel to play like the Ravens .. just hasn’t been their move. 
 

Ravens DL is solid, but not anything special. Similar to ours. 
 

They have a top tier LB duo. Similar to ours. 
 

Secondary-wise, no reason White, Elam, Johnson and Poyer can’t be physical, chippy and in your face like the Ravens DB’s.  
 

Talent is similar.  It’s attitude and scheme that we need to replicate. 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by SCBills

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Spencer Brown and Dion Dawkins have to step up.

 

The Bengals don’t do anything outside of Hubbard and Hendrickson in pass rush, but towards the end of that game they got closer and closer. 
 

And Spencer Brown is a turnstile 1/3 plays.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Spencer Brown and Dion Dawkins have to step up.

 

The Bengals don’t do anything outside of Hubbard and Hendrickson in pass rush, but towards the end of that game they got closer and closer. 

Given the injuries to the Bengals O line, hopefully our pass rush can get closer and closer too 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

Given the injuries to the Bengals O line, hopefully our pass rush can get closer and closer too 

Yup have to hope Jonah Williams is out, and Alex Cappa can’t make it back. 

[appoo]

So the Bills have better DTs, equivalenr DEs like Oweh and Bowser, better depth at all along the DL and pass rushers, equivalent Backer tandem, and with Tre

coming back around, better corners, while the ravens have better safeties. 
 

In general the Bills run D has been quite good, and phenomenal since a bad game against the Phins in December. 
 

There’s just no evidence to support the ravens being more “physical” on D or even better 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I said decent...not sensational😂

 

 Dude that's horrible not decent. They had some plays go their way with ints returns, a punt return and a defensive td, but imo our defense played well given the crappy situations they were put it. They only gave up 231 yards today.

 

 

 

[appoo]

8 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

Both of the defenses on the field tonight seem to have more nastiness to them than the Bills.  Hopefully Phillips can play?  He brings some of that attitude.

How were they more nasty? Did you look at the stats from today? How many successful drives the Dolphins had during the game? Their QBs pressure rate?

[Utah John]

I'm not about to read through 73 pages of comments to see if someone mentioned this already.  But.  I wonder if the Ravens had flashbacks of the Bills beating them in the playoffs when the Ravens were just about to score, and Taron Johnson intercepted a pass in the end zone and ran it back for the winning touchdown.  At least that was a regular football play, which almost worked if Johnson hadn't shifted his position slightly.  The Huntley fumble was just the result of a bad play concept, jumping like that instead of just pushing the pile forward with his feet on the ground.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

So the Bills have better DTs, equivalenr DEs like Oweh and Bowser, better depth at all along the DL and pass rushers, equivalent Backer tandem, and with Tre

coming back around, better corners, while the ravens have better safeties. 
 

In general the Bills run D has been quite good, and phenomenal since a bad game against the Phins in December. 
 

There’s just no evidence to support the ravens being more “physical” on D or even better 

The Ravens were getting pressure with their front 4.  The Bills have been struggling to do the same.

[appoo]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I think it was pretty clear in this game that Baltimore has the better pass rush and that was a huge difference in the drives Cincy had to punt.

Than the Bengals defense? Sure.

And also, Bmore has an attacking 3-4, with blitzers coming all over the place. 
 

But even with the Bills more conventional 4-3, they put a ton of pressure on the QB

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

How were they more nasty? Did you look at the stats from today? How many successful drives the Dolphins had during the game? Their QBs pressure rate?

I agree that we have similar, probably even better talent than the Ravens (I posted about it above), but until this defense shows they can do what the Ravens defense just did, to an elite offense, in the playoffs … people hype the Ravens Defense over ours for a reason.  
 

Bills Defense can get their flowers if they go out and lock the Bengals down on Sunday. 

[appoo]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

The Ravens were getting pressure with their front 4.  The Bills have been struggling to do the same.

They play a 3-4, and bring pressure by blitzing from various angles rather than anything conventional. They might just rush 4, but you don’t necessarily know who that 4th is, and it’s often 5-6

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

Than the Bengals defense? Sure.

And also, Bmore has an attacking 3-4, with blitzers coming all over the place. 
 

But even with the Bills more conventional 4-3, they put a ton of pressure on the QB

Huh?  The Bills have struggled and continue to struggle to get pressure with just the front 4.  Baltimore was getting pressure on Burrow with just their front 4.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

42 minutes ago, RG Murdock said:

Yeah, they almost won with a backup QB... Smart. 

That wasn’t my quote.

[jkeerie]

36 minutes ago, Koufax said:

They ran out of downs not out of time and still had an unused timeout. The holding penalty was the big problem. They didn’t want to give Burrow 13 seconds or more and without the hold they have enough downs and time to punch it in. Probably could have gone a little faster and slowed down later but time wasn’t the problem in the end

Their clock management took away the run which played a big part in their being able to move the football.  They were left only with passing the ball which was not their strong suit.  

[appoo]

Just now, SCBills said:

I agree that we have similar, probably even better talent than the Ravens (I posted about it above), but until this defense shows they can do what the Ravens defense just did, to an elite offense, in the playoffs … people hype the Ravens Defense over ours for a reason.  
 

Bills Defense can get their flowers if they go out and lock the Bengals down on Sunday. 

They did that against the chiefs.

 

What’s funny is this the same complaint I heard about PSU’s defense for the last 2 decades last season. They were defenses that didn’t blitz a lot, got sacks from the front 4, and would play mostly zones - and consistently end up ranked pretty darn high on every defensive stat out there while coming up with good performances against good teams.

 

I think people are arguing style > performance 

 

Theres nothing sexy about the Bills D. They don’t care chaotic pressure, and they don’t send swarms of defenders. So people take that to mean the Bills are soft on D. But that’s bull####. What the Bills are highly effective, a incredibly and really difficult to score on

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

They play a 3-4, and bring pressure by blitzing from various angles rather than anything conventional. They might just rush 4, but you don’t necessarily know who that 4th is, and it’s often 5-6

OK, point being they are getting pressure rushing the same amount of people we do, where we  are not getting pressure.  We've had to bring extra bodies to get pressure.

[appoo]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Huh?  The Bills have struggled and continue to struggle to get pressure with just the front 4.  Baltimore was getting pressure on Burrow with just their front 4.

Bills didn’t struggle at all to get pressure on Miami with their front 4. Why the hell do you think Thompson only completed 40% and was constantly avoiding pressure and moving around off his spot? Yea Milano got a couple blitz sacks but the primary pressure throughout the game was coming from the front 4. It was effective. It harassed Miami’s offense into a completely crap day. On the vast majority of plays Edmunds and Milano stayed in coverage .

 

I don’t know why people aren’t wanting to give the Bills front 4 some credit here. 

[CoudyBills]

10 minutes ago, appoo said:

How were they more nasty? Did you look at the stats from today? How many successful drives the Dolphins had during the game? Their QBs pressure rate?

One against a 3rd string qb and another against Burrow and the Bengals.  No comparison at all.  

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, appoo said:

Bills didn’t struggle at all to get pressure on Miami with their front 4. Why the hell do you think Thompson only completed 40% and was constantly avoiding pressure and moving around off his spot? Yea Milano got a couple blitz sacks but the primary pressure throughout the game was coming from the front 4. It was effective. It harassed Miami’s offense into a completely crap day. On the vast majority of plays Edmunds and Milano stayed in coverage .

 

I don’t know why people aren’t wanting to give the Bills front 4 some credit here. 

Because not every incompletion was due to pressure from the front 4.  Fish receivers dropped several balls, Bills defenders made plays on balls, and some were just bad throws. To chalk that up to our front 4 getting pressure just isn't the case.

 

This isnt new. Our front 4 has not been able to generate consistent pressure against opponents for most of the season. 

 

And I'll state the obvious.  Skylar Thompson is far from being Joe Burrow.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Billz4ever

[appoo]

Just now, CoudyBills said:

One against a 3rd string qb and another against Burrow and the Bengals.  No comparison at all.  

What difference does that make when you’re talking about pressure and “nastiness”?

Just now, Billz4ever said:

Because not every bad pass was due to pressure.

 

This isnt new. Our front 4 has not been able to generate consistent pressure against opponents for most of the season. 

Just not true 

 

What do you see here?

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Because not every bad pass was due to pressure.

 

This isnt new. Our front 4 has not been able to generate consistent pressure against opponents for most of the season. 

 

That's a big time projection

[appoo]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/opp.htm
 

Bills have the 15th ranked pressure % in the NFL (Ravens are around 20th or so) at 7,2%, and yet have the 10th lowest blitz %.  What does that tell you about the Bills front 4?

[ganesh]

16 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Huh?  The Bills have struggled and continue to struggle to get pressure with just the front 4.  Baltimore was getting pressure on Burrow with just their front 4.

Thompson's QB rating yesterday was 44.

Just now, appoo said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/opp.htm
 

Bills have the 15th ranked pressure % in the NFL (Ravens are around 20th or so) at 7,2%, and yet have the 10th lowest blitz %.  What does that tell you about the Bills front 4?

The Bills front four create enough pressure on the QB but don't get to the QB as often as they can do.  The fumbles and TOs are missing

Edited January 16, 2023 by ganesh

[billsbackto81]

22 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Dude that's horrible not decent. They had some plays go their way with ints returns, a punt return and a defensive td, but imo our defense played well given the crappy situations they were put it. They only gave up 231 yards today.

 

 

 

Fair enough. Still play well enough to have my sphincter puckered until the final minute.

[appoo]

1 minute ago, ganesh said:

Thompson's QB rating yesterday was 44.

The Bills front four create enough pressure on the QB but don't get to the QB as often as they can do.  The fumbles and TOs are missing

Yea I agree with that, and that’s why they went and got Von Miller to help finish those plays. 
 

But certainly they create more than enough pressure to create bad plays fairly consistently.  It’s super hard to constantly drive the field on this defense because of that consistent pressure . Beat your man and move the QB. Everything after that is bonus. 

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, appoo said:

What difference does that make when you’re talking about pressure and “nastiness”?

Just not true 

 

What do you see here?

 

So 1 play is your proof that our front 4 gets consistent pressure? That wasn't even big pressure. 

 

QBs like Burrow, Allen and Mahomes routinely complete throws in that same circumstance.

[appoo]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

So 1 play is your proof that our front 4 gets consistent pressure? That wasn't even big pressure. 

 

QBs like Burrow, Allen and Mahomes routinely complete throws in that same circumstance.

You saying “that wasn’t even a big pressure” tells me we’re not going to agree here.
 

Big Gregg won the play, with an assist from DaQuon Jones who won his battle as well.  That’s the kind of pressure the Bills get fairly often and it’s exactly what you want out of your defense. 
 

Sure sacks and hits are more fun to watch, but it’s the consistent pressure that’s what sets a good defense apart from an average defense. 

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, appoo said:

You saying “that wasn’t even a big pressure” tells me we’re not going to agree here.
 

Big Gregg won the play, with an assist from DaQuon Jones who won his battle as well.  That’s the kind of pressure the Bills get fairly often and it’s exactly what you want out of your defense. 
 

Sure sacks and hits are more fun to watch, but it’s the consistent pressure that’s what sets a good defense apart from an average defense. 

I just don't see how you compare throws Skylar Thompson can't make to the one's we know Joe Burrow can.

 

There's nothing I've seen from our defensive front over the last many weeks that says our front 4 can harass and get to Burrow the way Baltimore did tonight.

 

Trust me...I would absolutely love for them to prove me wrong, but using Skylar Thompson as the measuring stick isn't very convincing.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Billz4ever

[billieve420]

All I know the Bills tackling needs to be on point next week and getting off the field on 3rd and long. On offense need to limit the turnovers.

[ngbills]

How was Andrews being pushed down on the fumble return not a block in the back?