Einstein's Dog Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Personally, I’d rather watch the games than stat check when the season is over. Dorsey was had problems every week once his offense was figured out, the evidence was gushing on the field of where he was coming up short and it’s why everything was so much harder on the offense. My point was, any coach with intense hindsight scrutiny has areas to improve. Especially when not judged relative to the competition. And Dorsey's weapons were worse than Daboll's - Dorsey never had a replacement for Sanders. This is where DHop would come in, an improvement even. Most here hope the offense will click better next year. That Dorsey/Allen/Cook/Shakir can improve the short game. But also adding another outside WR seems like it could open a lot of opportunity. DHop is the number one choice but it is a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Im on board with your take here...Allen absolutely carried this offense and saved Dorsey from being an even bigger issue. I can't fathom how anyone can defend Dorsey's coaching job last year. He was without question a big part of our offensive issues. He utterly terrible in how he called games in the redzone, he poorly integrated our run game, he failed to get guys like Cook, Hines, and Shakir involved consistently in our passing game, and just how outclassed he was in the playoffs by opposing DC's. It also took him way too long to realize we should throw the ball to Knox, especially in the endzone. Opposing defenders would talk about the minimal routes guys like Davis would run and how predictable it could be. And it showed up on tape where our WR's struggled to get open and too much of our pass attack success was on the back of Allen improvising and extending plays so receivers could break off routes and find a spot for Allen to get the ball. Our OL is not good enough to keep relying on extended plays. The offense came out fast and furious, but then it was figured out by the time we played GB who gave the NFL a blueprint on to disrupt the offense that was never countered properly by Dorsey. In defense of him, it was his first year as an OC on any level. So, he can take what happened last year and build on the positives and work to mitigate the negatives. But, not going to lie, it makes me nervous gambling on Josh Allen and Diggs prime years on an inexperienced OC who is learning on the job. This team absolutely needs Dorsey to be better this year and to understand how to make much better adjustments. And that was the BIG difference between him and Daboll...is that Daboll was always changing the offense and gameplan each week and it was one of the big reasons that under him we were known to have one of the most complicated offenses in the league for players to learn. But at least Frazier is gone...another guy whose post season performances are indefensible. Im much more optimistic that McD is calling plays than I would be if Frazier was back. The last time McD took over play calling from Frazier our defense immediately improved and significantly. And yet with an uninjured Allen, better WRs, Daboll's ever changing weekly gameplans and a much, much easier schedule the Bills averaged the same exact ppg with Daboll in 2021 as they did with a first time OC in 2022. Add to that more yards on offense per game this year even though our defense couldn't get off the field as compared to 2021. Another post where I'm going to say something isn't adding up on your end. And don't say Allen either, Allen was our QB both years. Daboll had his own warts, the biggest one thinking he could outsmart everyone, but usually he'd end up only outsmarting himself. There's 2 possessions in the Divisional round loss to the Chiefs right off the bat. 3 straight runs by Singletary on 1 and another where Gilliam, Singletary & McKenzie were the only 3 to touch the ball. 2 possessions where Diggs, Sanders, Beasley & Davis didn't even get a single target or even an Allen run. And that's with Davis being a clear mismatch once Mathieu left the game. Daboll threw away 2 of our 9 drives in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: And yet with an uninjured Allen, better WRs, Daboll's ever changing weekly gameplans and a much, much easier schedule the Bills averaged the same exact ppg with Daboll in 2021 as they did with a first time OC in 2022. Add to that more yards on offense per game this year even though our defense couldn't get off the field as compared to 2021. Another post where I'm going to say something isn't adding up on your end. And don't say Allen either, Allen was our QB both years. Daboll had his own warts, the biggest one thinking he could outsmart everyone, but usually he'd end up only outsmarting himself. There's 2 possessions in the Divisional round loss to the Chiefs right off the bat. 3 straight runs by Singletary on 1 and another where Gilliam, Singletary & McKenzie were the only 3 to touch the ball. 2 possessions where Diggs, Sanders, Beasley & Davis didn't even get a single target or even an Allen run. And that's with Davis being a clear mismatch once Mathieu left the game. Daboll threw away 2 of our 9 drives in that game. Yet... Daboll averaged 45 PPG in his 2 playoff games in 2021. Dorsey averaged 22 PPG in his 2 playoff games in 2022. SB trophies are won in the postseason Edited March 31, 2023 by Alphadawg7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 45 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: My point was, any coach with intense hindsight scrutiny has areas to improve. Especially when not judged relative to the competition. And Dorsey's weapons were worse than Daboll's - Dorsey never had a replacement for Sanders. This is where DHop would come in, an improvement even. Most here hope the offense will click better next year. That Dorsey/Allen/Cook/Shakir can improve the short game. But also adding another outside WR seems like it could open a lot of opportunity. DHop is the number one choice but it is a long shot. Im all for DHop and getting guys like Cook, Hines and Shakir more into the pass attack. Im not saying Dorsey can't improve, the hope certainly is that he can. But the point is, he does have a lot to improve on, he was not good last year. Any schmuck off the street could be the Bills OC and see them finish in the top 5 in offense because this team has Allen. So the year end totals mean nothing to me if I am being honest. What I cared about was situational awareness, situational football, creativity, use of personnel, play calling etc...and he was just not good enough in those areas IMHO. My point is, this isn't intense hindsight scrutiny. Everything I said in my post before and this one were the same things I was screaming at the TV during each game last year. Those opinions were formed live, during the games, not at the end of the season. Hopefully he grows this year...but like I said before, makes me nervous to bet the prime years of Allen and Diggs on an inexperienced OC who is learning on the job and needs to take a big leap in year 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Im all for DHop and getting guys like Cook, Hines and Shakir more into the pass attack. Im not saying Dorsey can't improve, the hope certainly is that he can. But the point is, he does have a lot to improve on, he was not good last year. Any schmuck off the street could be the Bills OC and see them finish in the top 5 in offense because this team has Allen. So the year end totals mean nothing to me if I am being honest. What I cared about was situational awareness, situational football, creativity, use of personnel, play calling etc...and he was just not good enough in those areas IMHO. My point is, this isn't intense hindsight scrutiny. Everything I said in my post before and this one were the same things I was screaming at the TV during each game last year. Those opinions were formed live, during the games, not at the end of the season. Hopefully he grows this year...but like I said before, makes me nervous to bet the prime years of Allen and Diggs on an inexperienced OC who is learning on the job and needs to take a big leap in year 2. You can’t even stick to the thread topic but you’re lecturing the Bills OC on situational awareness. Classic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 54 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Im all for DHop and getting guys like Cook, Hines and Shakir more into the pass attack. Im not saying Dorsey can't improve, the hope certainly is that he can. But the point is, he does have a lot to improve on, he was not good last year. Any schmuck off the street could be the Bills OC and see them finish in the top 5 in offense because this team has Allen. So the year end totals mean nothing to me if I am being honest. What I cared about was situational awareness, situational football, creativity, use of personnel, play calling etc...and he was just not good enough in those areas IMHO. My point is, this isn't intense hindsight scrutiny. Everything I said in my post before and this one were the same things I was screaming at the TV during each game last year. Those opinions were formed live, during the games, not at the end of the season. Hopefully he grows this year...but like I said before, makes me nervous to bet the prime years of Allen and Diggs on an inexperienced OC who is learning on the job and needs to take a big leap in year 2. This is where I’m at and have been at. It was criminal to expect a rookie OC get the job done in an “all in” year last year. He came in like gangbusters early in the year too, but then faded as the other teams got tape on him. And as the season got more grinding and we didn’t have the grinders on offense. im with you, I hope he grows and makes a huge step. More importantly, because I just believe Josh is so good it probably doesn’t matter who our OC is, I just hope they get him some toys and help blocking. Do that and I’m not saying it won’t matter who our OC is, but it’ll hurt a lot less of Dorsey or anyone else for that matter is a dud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Yet... Daboll averaged 45 PPG in his 2 playoff games in 2021. Dorsey averaged 22 PPG in his 2 playoff games in 2022. SB trophies are won in the postseason Yet... The year Josh had, by far, the best weapons he's had in his career.....20.3 PPG in 3 playoffs games in 2020. That includes a 10 point offensive performance at home against the Ravens. The same amount of points we had in the Cincy game this year. This is fun. What else you got?....... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcg Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 This thread isn't making 200 now It will be closed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mcg said: This thread isn't making 200 now It will be closed He hasn’t been traded yet…but extremely likely he will be between now and the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Im all for DHop and getting guys like Cook, Hines and Shakir more into the pass attack. Im not saying Dorsey can't improve, the hope certainly is that he can. But the point is, he does have a lot to improve on, he was not good last year. Any schmuck off the street could be the Bills OC and see them finish in the top 5 in offense because this team has Allen. So the year end totals mean nothing to me if I am being honest. What I cared about was situational awareness, situational football, creativity, use of personnel, play calling etc...and he was just not good enough in those areas IMHO. My point is, this isn't intense hindsight scrutiny. Everything I said in my post before and this one were the same things I was screaming at the TV during each game last year. Those opinions were formed live, during the games, not at the end of the season. Hopefully he grows this year...but like I said before, makes me nervous to bet the prime years of Allen and Diggs on an inexperienced OC who is learning on the job and needs to take a big leap in year 2. I don't know if just any schmuck off the street could have OCed this team to a top five offensive finish. Some schmucks maybe, not just anyone. I was actually impressed with Dorsey at the beginning of the season. I had a lot of doubts about the offense: new OC, new OL coach, new #2 wideout, new slot receiver, mediocre RBs, bad OL. There was a lot to worry about. Yet for about half the season, we made the art of scoring look as easy as Bob Ross painting a landscape. I was starting to think our new OC was some kind of a genius, working around a weak offensive line as well as he was. And then Allen hurt his elbow and it seemed like Dorsey went into a funk too. Play-calling became predictable. Receivers weren't getting separation because defenses knew what we were doing. Touchdowns became hard to get. But I've heard OCs say they learn a lot in Year One and often come back better in Year Two. Fingers crossed; this happens for Dorsey. And it would be great if he had more and better weapons to work with - like DHop. But I don't if we can afford that. So I'd like to see him make better use of some of the weapons that were underutized last year like Hines and Cook. Hines had 63 receptions in 2020, just 5 last year - his career low. Why wouldn't we make use of a dynamic playmaker like that? It's puzzling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 23 hours ago, newcam2012 said: I doubt that. Too many people fall in love with Allen's arm strength. There's more to playing the QB position than that. Look how Burrow carved the Bills D with a ***** oline. He's arm isn't anything special. It can be argued that Burrow has surpassed Allen. Burrow has that swag and that it factor. You can feel it in the big games. Allen has shown to be careless and reckless with the ball. Thus far, he hasn't led his team nearly as far as Mahomes or Burrows. It really doesn't matter because all three QBs are franchise elite QBs. Hopefully, Allen will led the Bills to a Super Bowl. My ranking in 1 Mahomes 2 Allen and 3 Burrow It's more then Allen's arm strength it's also about his size which Mahomes isn't going to match. On the intangibles like "toughness" & "leadership" Allen matches Mahomes. And the main reason Allen hasn't taken the Bills as far as Mahomes & Burrow have taken their teams is that he has not had the talent on offense that they both do. The Bills poured a lot of their resources into the defense to mixed results. And every time I hear how Allen hasn't matched Mahomes & Burrow in the playoffs I think of "13 seconds" and how that would not have happened to either Mahomes or Burrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 4 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: You can’t even stick to the thread topic but you’re lecturing the Bills OC on situational awareness. Classic. What are you even talking about? I chimed in on something YOU and someone else were arguing about, I didn’t bring any of it up. But I see you’re just back to your usual schtick now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: It's more then Allen's arm strength it's also about his size which Mahomes isn't going to match. On the intangibles like "toughness" & "leadership" Allen matches Mahomes. And the main reason Allen hasn't taken the Bills as far as Mahomes & Burrow have taken their teams is that he has not had the talent on offense that they both do. The Bills poured a lot of their resources into the defense to mixed results. And every time I hear how Allen hasn't matched Mahomes & Burrow in the playoffs I think of "13 seconds" and how that would not have happened to either Mahomes or Burrow. You are correct I don’t know what more Allen can do. Cincy and KC have built their teams around their QBs by sticking heavy resources into their olines. Beane relies on Allen to be a one man offense so he can stick heavy resources into the defense. I honestly don’t know if that will change while Beane and McDermott are in charge as both are defense first guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: What are you even talking about? I chimed in on something YOU and someone else were arguing about, I didn’t bring any of it up. But I see you’re just back to your usual schtick now My point was that the garbage being spewed about McDermott is out of place in the Hopkins thread. But it’s spewing away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 41 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: It's more then Allen's arm strength it's also about his size which Mahomes isn't going to match. On the intangibles like "toughness" & "leadership" Allen matches Mahomes. And the main reason Allen hasn't taken the Bills as far as Mahomes & Burrow have taken their teams is that he has not had the talent on offense that they both do. The Bills poured a lot of their resources into the defense to mixed results. And every time I hear how Allen hasn't matched Mahomes & Burrow in the playoffs I think of "13 seconds" and how that would not have happened to either Mahomes or Burrow. I agree. Unfortunately, that's the football world we live in. Regular season stats are greatly diminshed. It's more about winning playoff games, making the Super Bowl and winning it all. That's really the new measuring stick. Allen although not his fault has fallen short. Thus, he has to take a back seat to those who accomplish what he cannot. The other point is the failure of Beane and company to support Allen via weapons and protection. You have rightly pointed this out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 10 hours ago, newcam2012 said: I agree. Unfortunately, that's the football world we live in. Regular season stats are greatly diminshed. It's more about winning playoff games, making the Super Bowl and winning it all. That's really the new measuring stick. Allen although not his fault has fallen short. Thus, he has to take a back seat to those who accomplish what he cannot. The other point is the failure of Beane and company to support Allen via weapons and protection. You have rightly pointed this out. My only quibble here is that Allen has not fallen short. Half his playoff games have been played at an elite level and he has yet to have a stinker game. For the last month all I've heard are the "experts" bemoaning why no one has signed Lamar Jackson to a 250 million guaranteed contract. Yet none of them talk about Jackson's dismal playoff performances. So it always pisses me off when I hear that Allen has "failed" in the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 the #1 reason we got bounced from playoffs is our O-line is below average phi & kc have the best Olines in the league it don't matter how many Dhop weapons we add or if we get a new LB significantly improve the Oline or its another wasted year of josh 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 11 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said: You are correct I don’t know what more Allen can do. Cincy and KC have built their teams around their QBs by sticking heavy resources into their olines. Beane relies on Allen to be a one man offense so he can stick heavy resources into the defense. I honestly don’t know if that will change while Beane and McDermott are in charge as both are defense first guys. I suspect that if it doesn't change then the Bills will continue to flounder in the later stages of the playoffs and the team will continue to waste the talents of an elite QB. The good news is that so far this off season there does seem to be a change in mindset at One Bills Drive. We need to keep our fingers crossed that it continues through FA and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Well, I still believe he is coming to Buffalo, both GMs are playing chess right now. If he wasn't coming, Beane would bite on another WR in trade. He has a history of moving on to the next guy.... This is just an annoying pause.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, HOUSE said: Well, I still believe he is coming to Buffalo, both GMs are playing chess right now. If he wasn't coming, Beane would bite on another WR in trade. He has a history of moving on to the next guy.... This is just an annoying pause.... What does Erie County Bulls say he's been "told"? He's been pretty quiet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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