Josh Allen's Elbow

[97bills]

I just hope next year we draft oline help and WR. And I do want Allen to stop playing like he’s a linebacker when he runs. 

[H2o]

17 hours ago, Luka said:

Carson Palmer Discusses Josh Allen's UCL Injury

 

Palmer's description of his experience with the injury seems to fit what Josh is experiencing since it happened. Josh's off angle and off platform throws have been much less effective since hurting the UCL and has played a major role in our reduced offensive output. 

I have a feeling that Josh's is less severe, but still affecting him none the less. You can tell his passes don't really have the same velocity and he does have a couple of wth type of throws every game now. He's just not the Josh we've grown accustomed to seeing the last 2-1/2 years prior to this happening. I think more may come out about it after the season, but right now Josh is just pushing through it and still doing everything he can. 

[Shemp]

If or when the Bills clinch the AFC East title, I'd like to see the Bills rest Allen for the playoffs. The elbow needs rest and the Bills need full-strength Josh heading into the playoffs. 

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Blah Blah said:

If or when the Bills clinch the AFC East title, I'd like to see the Bills rest Allen for the playoffs. The elbow needs rest and the Bills need full-strength Josh heading into the playoffs. 

Get the 1 seed and they can rest him a week.

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:10 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

1st time Allen hurt the UCL

-Immediately out for 4-games, and pulled himself out

 

2nd time Allen hurt the UCL (3.5 years later)

- Doesn’t miss a game, stays in and throws 70 yards 

 

If the tear was as bad or worse that the first time explain this?

 

I take your point about the 13-week long ankle sprains.

 

However don't you think the difference in the team's status, and Allen's status with the team makes a difference in how the injury is handled?

 

The first time Allen sprained his UCL, he was a hard-playing but struggling rookie, trying to figure out how to prepare and play in the NFL.  The Bills had just done what they should have done before the season - bring in a vet QB to 'show him how it's done' (and not totally kill us with picks if he played a couple games).  The Bills had just invested a first round pick+ into him and needed him to develop.  The team had nothing to lose and a lot to gain in the future by sitting him.  It made sense to put him on ice and not let him rush back.  "Watch and Learn, Rook"

 

This season, the team's hopes of a championship rest on Allen playing if he can.  He's most of the offense.  If he can play, the team needs him to play.

 

That said, I don't believe the tear was worse - the initial reports were that it was not as severe as his rookie season tear.

 

From what Carson Palmer, with a more severe sprain, said, it didn't hurt and he was able to make throws normally.  It was just every 3 or 4th throw would behave abnormally - go off target or wind up in the dirt.  So Allen dirting a throw on the run in front of Diggs, then next throw right on target to Davis, fits with what Palmer said about his more severe UCL injury.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I have a feeling that Josh's is less severe, but still affecting him none the less. You can tell his passes don't really have the same velocity and he does have a couple of wth type of throws every game now. He's just not the Josh we've grown accustomed to seeing the last 2-1/2 years prior to this happening. I think more may come out about it after the season, but right now Josh is just pushing through it and still doing everything he can. 

 

Allen's passes have every bit of the same velocity at times.  That Piss Missile to Diggs at the end of the Lions game to set up the GW FG?  LOL. 

 

What appears different to me is:

1) Josh doesn't have the same pinpoint accuracy and control when he's throwing off platform.  This is a concern especially over the middle of the field where the ball being off 3 feet may mean a pick.

2) when he's able to set and throw on-platform, his throws look normal to me - but he doesn't get the chance to do that as much as I'd like, especially last couple games (Detroit, NE, Jets).  It makes sense - if Josh is using his hips to power the throw and his arm to guide it, the elbow isn't under as much load?

3) he's lost a bit of control, he's throwing harder especially off platform.  I think that was actually a problem contributing to the large # of drops our receivers had vs. Jets - in the cold rain, Josh didn't feel comfortable taking a little off and reverted to throwing the heat.  In the cold rain, when the ball smacked into their slippery-er WR gloves, harder to hang on to it.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Beck Water

[JackKemp]

16 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Josh Allen's Elbow?

Sounds like a good screen name..

With reduced velocity, defenders have an additional few tenths of a second, to break up a play.

I noticed during the last few home games, that Allen's ball velocity, was 'off', (in my opinion)

I was thinking a good band name.

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

75% Tear?!?

 

It's not the % tear that I think the OP (and I) find interesting, it's his description of its effect on his passing - didn't hurt, finished the game, next day some of his passes were normal and some died and dropped into the dirt like they were "shot out of the sky" - and that he said it wasn't every pass

 

12 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

It’s almost like you guys are rooting for this.

 

I think you mis-spelled "horribly worried about"

[Dr.Sack]

Nothing that an offseason rehab of cold beer and wings can’t fix. 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Allen's passes have every bit of the same velocity at times.  That Piss Missile to Diggs at the end of the Lions game to set up the GW FG?  LOL. 

 

What appears different to me is:

1) Josh doesn't have the same pinpoint accuracy and control when he's throwing off platform.  This is a concern especially over the middle of the field where the ball being off 3 feet may mean a pick.

2) when he's able to set and throw on-platform, his throws look normal to me - but he doesn't get the chance to do that as much as I'd like, especially last couple games (Detroit, NE, Jets).  It makes sense - if Josh is using his hips to power the throw and his arm to guide it, the elbow isn't under as much load?

3) he's lost a bit of control, he's throwing harder especially off platform.  I think that was actually a problem contributing to the large # of drops our receivers had vs. Jets - in the cold rain, Josh didn't feel comfortable taking a little off and reverted to throwing the heat.  In the cold rain, when the ball smacked into their slippery-er WR gloves, harder to hang on to it.

 

 

Agree with all of that but #3.

 

The drops and failures to win contested catch situations have been going on all season and they range from the softest of tosses to ropes.

 

It's primarily the product of having receivers who don't naturally catch the ball well/easily.  

 

Hard hands.

 

Knox entered the league with stone hands.   Davis wasn't a great catcher at UCF.    Singletary.........McKenzie..........I mean, c'mon let's not overthink it. 

 

The kind of receivers who have the athletic ability of a Knox or Davis..........but also soft hands........usually cost you first and second round picks.

 

The Bills are basically getting what they have paid for at the position.

[CDogg20]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:17 PM, Beck Water said:

I thought there was a thread on this from a week or 2 ago, but couldn't find it.

 

It was noted that Allen was getting his shoulder and elbow stretched out, ON THE FIELD, before practice today

 

Banged up Bills had this to say about it (I'm not sure what he means by "distraction observed too", Anyone?

 

 

There's another video clip where at the end, Josh can be seen lying on the ground with his shoulder/elbow being worked on.

 

I wish we could persuade our guy to stop running down the field like a human Wrecking Ball and slide more.

Ironically enough he was injured in the pocket

[Real McClappy]

 

I love this site but honestly can't stand the TBD doctors = CLOWNS

Edited December 17, 2022 by Real McNasty

[Beck Water]

13 hours ago, CDogg20 said:

Ironically enough he was injured in the pocket

 

Where he was injured wasn't my point.  Right now, the perception (right or wrong) is that his passing isn't the same as it was prior to the 1st half of the GB game.  He can make some throws that are brilliant, every bit as pinpoint and fast as before the injury.  But he also has throws that are off-target, or that seem like they're slower - especially when he's throwing off-platform or on the move.

 

I think we all want to see Allen heal at the best possible rate.  Towards that, running downfield and giving 300 lb moose defenders a free pass to slam their helmets into his elbow and wrench on his arm in the cause of trying to force a fumble (or just "business as usual" as he's buried in a pile of tacklers) can not be expediting the healing process.  That's what I was trying to say.

[WideNine]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:13 PM, BUFFALOBART said:

Josh Allen's Elbow?

Sounds like a good screen name..

With reduced velocity, defenders have an additional few tenths of a second, to break up a play.

I noticed during the last few home games, that Allen's ball velocity, was 'off', (in my opinion)

 

That description from Palmer about his own experience during practice trying to throw also explains some of the quizzical looks Allen has had after some poor throws, like, "what the hell was that?"...

 

I was thinking that he was just trying to take too much off his balls to make catches easier, but the lack of velocity on some of those throws now makes a bit more sense.

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by WideNine

[Warriorspikes51]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:22 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

75% Tear?!?

It’s almost like you guys are rooting for this.

 

 

Josh has a “slight tear”

[Beck Water]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:05 PM, Lenigmusx said:

McDermott bring Mike Shula in as an OC/Quality Control consultant would indicate that the Bills brass is moderately concerned as well. 

 

Huh? Shula has been here since the off-season.  He was just profiled recently because of his dad's connection to the Fins

 

Mike Shula was OC in Carolina 2013-2018 when Ken Dorsey was his QB coach.  Dorsey may have even asked for him.

 

I actually have had the thought that Dorsey is dealing with a bit of a "too many Cooks, spoil the Broth" situation.  He's got former college passing game coordinator and NFL OC Joe Brady as his QB coach, 3x NFL OC Mike Shula as "offensive assistant", and former NFL OC and run game coordinator Aaron Kromer as his OL coach.  That's a lot of egos to keep calm and organized in the same direction.

 

7 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Josh has a “slight tear”

 

Yes, we know (although, how "slight" is the question).

 

It's Palmer's description of what happened to the throws he was making after the injury that's of interest.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Beck Water

[without a drought]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:43 AM, JackKemp said:

I was thinking a good band name.

Why?  

 

Can't imagine a scenario where that would be true.

[VW82]

The fact that Josh is gutting this out when he's clearly compromised instead of sitting him for a 3-4 game stretch and a late season playoff push makes me think they know this isn't just going to heal on its own and he needs surgery. 

 

In the event that Josh does get Tommy John after the season, what direction do you guys think Beane should take with the team? We're about to enter cap hell with all the deals we signed. Does it make sense to trade away guys like Diggs, Dawkins, or Tre, for example, and go for a one year stealth rebuild a la 08 Pats?

 

At some point we need to start thinking about the next five years even though that point is clearly after the season.

[beebe]

not sure if this has been discussed or followed up on, maybe it was nothing, but allen got hit on his elbow on this sack and then didn't have to throw again for the rest of the game since they were running out the clock. assume he's fine, but curious if anyone noticed any re-aggravation (if that's even possible at this point.) 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

24 minutes ago, beebe said:

not sure if this has been discussed or followed up on, maybe it was nothing, but allen got hit on his elbow on this sack and then didn't have to throw again for the rest of the game since they were running out the clock. assume he's fine, but curious if anyone noticed any re-aggravation (if that's even possible at this point.) 

 

Yeah remember seeing that and thinking was very similar to Jet game play