Niagara Bill Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 I do not recall that MLK dominated Kenndy the way the extreme left of AOC types do today. I don't recall Nixon bowing to the gun lobby or white supremacist as the GOP does today. When did this start? Clinton...quite possible, Bush 2, very likely. Why? Money and campaign finance reforms? Why does a President feel obligated to the extremes. No gun lobby is going to vote for the dems. No immigration supporter or left activist would ever vote for GOP. Nobody wants the middle of the country anymore? Why? By the way, Canada is no different. Where taxes and government spending was the main differences in parties in Canada, it is now religion, immigration, civil rights, free stuff. How toes the country take back power from extremes, to govern for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: I do not recall that MLK dominated Kenndy the way the extreme left of AOC types do today. I don't recall Nixon bowing to the gun lobby or white supremacist as the GOP does today. When did this start? Clinton...quite possible, Bush 2, very likely. Why? Money and campaign finance reforms? Why does a President feel obligated to the extremes. No gun lobby is going to vote for the dems. No immigration supporter or left activist would ever vote for GOP. Nobody wants the middle of the country anymore? Why? By the way, Canada is no different. Where taxes and government spending was the main differences in parties in Canada, it is now religion, immigration, civil rights, free stuff. How toes the country take back power from extremes, to govern for all. Yea, AOC is extreme...lmao lol 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 The extremes on the internet and some cable tv anchors . OAN and Newsmax on the very far right, with Trump . Bipartisan is a thing of the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Gerrymandering congressional districts means that we elect more extreme candidates because they don't even bother to pretend representing people in their district from the other political party. Cable news has replaced the nightly newscast with infotainment designed not to educate or provoke thought but instead to garner an emotional reaction that keeps eyes on the TV for the ad breaks. Similarly with the internet: outrage generates clicks, so information must generate outrage. Easiest to do this by posting extreme stuff about "the other side." A "first past the post" election system that puts us into two boxes combines with the other factors to generate an "us versus them" zero-sum mentality. If it's good for the other side, it must be bad for my side. This leads the other side to be seen as the enemy and you cannot compromise with the enemy. And frankly, probably some laziness or entitlement from the electorate. We want the juicy red meat of sensationalism instead of well-thought-out working through of policy issues. So we reward that bad behavior. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said: I do not recall that MLK dominated Kenndy the way the extreme left of AOC types do today. I don't recall Nixon bowing to the gun lobby or white supremacist as the GOP does today. When did this start? Clinton...quite possible, Bush 2, very likely. Why? Money and campaign finance reforms? Why does a President feel obligated to the extremes. No gun lobby is going to vote for the dems. No immigration supporter or left activist would ever vote for GOP. Nobody wants the middle of the country anymore? Why? By the way, Canada is no different. Where taxes and government spending was the main differences in parties in Canada, it is now religion, immigration, civil rights, free stuff. How toes the country take back power from extremes, to govern for all. This is incandescent blather, Bill, and while you're free to drink the hate-infused Kool Aid, you have no right to ask others to drink it along with you. The first step to restoring sanity to the middle is to recognize where you, personally, stand...and it doesn't seem to be where you think based on this gem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: This is incandescent blather, Bill, and while you're free to drink the hate-infused Kool Aid, you have no right to ask others to drink it along with you. The first step to restoring sanity to the middle is to recognize where you, personally, stand...and it doesn't seem to be where you think based on this gem. Why is this not balanced. Religion vs abortion rights. Social programs vs tax cuts. Gun rights vs minority rights. Climate Change vs no climate issues. Seems that is the break down thru political lines. Hate-filled? Don't think so. Just asking...when did the extremes start counting more than the middle. In Canada it started with Trudeau Sr. and went down hill from there. Now we have a flippin carbon tax. In US I believe with Clinton and Bush2. Why? What happened that those of us in the middle now are forced to chose only one of 2 extremes. All leaders seem to have to kiss up to extremes. Is it money? Are party politics so strong that moderates have no chance. Reagan could not get the nomination today. Remember when Hubert Humfrie was considered extreme. WTF HAPPENED ? In the 60s neither Biden or Trump would be a nominee. No way Obama would be elected in 60s, and nothing to domeuth race. He was unqualified, untested. Hmmmm. Guess when you think my post is extreme that says something in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Why is this not balanced. Religion vs abortion rights. Social programs vs tax cuts. Gun rights vs minority rights. Climate Change vs no climate issues. Seems that is the break down thru political lines. Hate-filled? Don't think so. Just asking...when did the extremes start counting more than the middle. In Canada it started with Trudeau Sr. and went down hill from there. Now we have a flippin carbon tax. In US I believe with Clinton and Bush2. Why? What happened that those of us in the middle now are forced to chose only one of 2 extremes. All leaders seem to have to kiss up to extremes. Is it money? Are party politics so strong that moderates have no chance. Reagan could not get the nomination today. Remember when Hubert Humfrie was considered extreme. WTF HAPPENED ? In the 60s neither Biden or Trump would be a nominee. No way Obama would be elected in 60s, and nothing to domeuth race. He was unqualified, untested. Hmmmm. Guess when you think my post is extreme that says something in itself. Ah, maybe you left something unsaid. You're suggesting that while the GOP "bows down to white supremacists" , the Democrats bow down to something like antifa anarchists? Is that fair? Because that wasn't what you said earlier...you went from a vague reference to AOC, on to the old WS crowd, then some nebulous comment about immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 27 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Why is this not balanced. Religion vs abortion rights. Social programs vs tax cuts. Gun rights vs minority rights. Climate Change vs no climate issues. Seems that is the break down thru political lines. Hate-filled? Don't think so. Just asking...when did the extremes start counting more than the middle. In Canada it started with Trudeau Sr. and went down hill from there. Now we have a flippin carbon tax. In US I believe with Clinton and Bush2. Why? What happened that those of us in the middle now are forced to chose only one of 2 extremes. All leaders seem to have to kiss up to extremes. Is it money? Are party politics so strong that moderates have no chance. Reagan could not get the nomination today. Remember when Hubert Humfrie was considered extreme. WTF HAPPENED ? In the 60s neither Biden or Trump would be a nominee. No way Obama would be elected in 60s, and nothing to domeuth race. He was unqualified, untested. Hmmmm. Guess when you think my post is extreme that says something in itself. Bill your choices are not even set up correct, each one is from an extreme leftist viewpoint. You think gun rights cost minorities their rights? You think that climate change will be solved by politicians? You think people are either for social programs or for a balanced budget? The fact that think you think these are opinions from the middle is why leftist whackos are dominating the Democrat party. A normal person wants minorites to have every right I do in every way, a balanced budget that takes care of the most vulnerable with efficiency, and politicians are not enriched by "climate change" when they don't actually help at all 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 It isn’t complicated. Conservative leaning people want to see things stay as they are. Progressive leaning people are generally interested in seeing things change. It’s been the same for decades. What’s happening now (in my opinion) is that the progressives are getting into some areas that were historically not considered even up for debate and conservatives are saying ‘what now’? I’m sure the same debate raged over topics that our grandparents would’ve never thought possible. Roll with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 When one party is dedicated to the rule of law and the other is dedicated to their version of social justice, regardless of law, it is easy to see how we ended up where we are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Precision said: When one party is dedicated to the rule of law and the other is dedicated to their version of social justice, regardless of law, it is easy to see how we ended up where we are. Rile of law? The GQP is clearly above the law. You are delusional and well, we all know - deranged Edited May 23, 2022 by BillStime 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 5 hours ago, BillStime said: Yea, AOC is extreme...lmao lol Wasn't she the one that brought up "The New Green Deal" i'd say that's pretty extreme especially in the time frame she wanted to implement it ... She is a extreme cooke !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 minute ago, T master said: Wasn't she the one that brought up "The New Green Deal" i'd say that's pretty extreme especially in the time frame she wanted to implement it ... She is a extreme cooke !! Did AOC purposely delay and then vote against a bill that would have helped get Trevor Reed released from Russia? No - she did not. Scum bag cult leader MTG did. #PutinProud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BillStime said: Rile of law? The GQP is clearly above the law. You are delusional and well, we all know - deranged Peaceful protests !! You say tomato others say BS !! You see any major differences between your photo's and these yours have less fire than the peaceful protestors do ... But relatively the same i'd say . Edited May 23, 2022 by T master 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Just now, T master said: Peaceful protests !! We can play this game all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, BillStime said: We can play this game all day Yah we could you can put lip stack on a pig but it's still a pig any way you cut it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, BillStime said: We can play this game all day Wait! What? Now the George Floyd arrest was a political movement? What day of the trial was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 35 minutes ago, T master said: Yah we could you can put lip stack on a pig but it's still a pig any way you cut it ... Fine people on both sides… enjoy that lipstick bro - apply it harder to cover this: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 It's the demographic shift with whites heading towards being just another minority. GOP is in freak out mode over nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, BillStime said: Fine people on both sides… enjoy that lipstick bro - apply it harder to cover this: The white supremacy thing is BS but so is BLM they are just on opposite sides of the coin each have their own individual agenda's which i find both to have more BS attached to them than truth each are demented in their own way if the truth be told . I think they are both out for them selves and could truly care less about the people they say they are trying to help but each believe hole heartedly that they stand as what is right when in fact they are a part of the problem ! It would be great to see all people just be excepted for who they are on their individual merits & character but that isn't going to happen anytime soon unfortunately . And the younger generations seem to jump into these kind of groups much easier than the older folks they are more led by the lies told by each side then ever today it's like they can't think for them selves or have little or no common sense to make those decisions and are very easily coerced one way or the other . There are good people still in the world i just pray they continue to see and spread the truth for what it is & come out on top in the end because this world is way screwed up !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Bill your choices are not even set up correct, each one is from an extreme leftist viewpoint. You think gun rights cost minorities their rights? You think that climate change will be solved by politicians? You think people are either for social programs or for a balanced budget? The fact that think you think these are opinions from the middle is why leftist whackos are dominating the Democrat party. A normal person wants minorites to have every right I do in every way, a balanced budget that takes care of the most vulnerable with efficiency, and politicians are not enriched by "climate change" when they don't actually help at all No gun rights is a right wing fight to keep.nra. No leftist wants a balanced budget, just spend. Leftist politicians think they can solve the climate issue, through legislation and taxes, right wing believes this is wrong. Seriously....THINK. I asked, when did extremes take over both parties, even in Canada. Who is middle of the road? NOBODY with power. They are owned by extremes! When and why.Was Reagan the last Pres to be Prez for all citizens. Trump hates dems. Dems hate repubs. Same in Canada. I cannot even vote for conservative party because of extreme views and voting for libs is impossible because they think taxes and legislation solve every problem redistribution of others wealth. Oh well, I tried to be clear but English to American it gets lost. 3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: It isn’t complicated. Conservative leaning people want to see things stay as they are. Progressive leaning people are generally interested in seeing things change. It’s been the same for decades. What’s happening now (in my opinion) is that the progressives are getting into some areas that were historically not considered even up for debate and conservatives are saying ‘what now’? I’m sure the same debate raged over topics that our grandparents would’ve never thought possible. Roll with it. In Canada the party was actually called progressive conservatives. In Ontario they ruled for 40+ years. Controlled the middle and we flourished 11 minutes ago, Tiberius said: It's the demographic shift with whites heading towards being just another minority. GOP is in freak out mode over nothing. So only whites are conservatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 At the end of the day both parties are just arguing that the extremes of the opposition are taking over. The irony is most of us in this forum are pretty close to the middle (excepting the fear mongering conspiracy theorists). You've got more knuckleheads threatening violence and civil war than before but that could just be my perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: No gun rights is a right wing fight to keep.nra. No leftist wants a balanced budget, just spend. Leftist politicians think they can solve the climate issue, through legislation and taxes, right wing believes this is wrong. Seriously....THINK. I asked, when did extremes take over both parties, even in Canada. Who is middle of the road? NOBODY with power. They are owned by extremes! When and why.Was Reagan the last Pres to be Prez for all citizens. Trump hates dems. Dems hate repubs. Same in Canada. I cannot even vote for conservative party because of extreme views and voting for libs is impossible because they think taxes and legislation solve every problem redistribution of others wealth. Oh well, I tried to be clear but English to American it gets lost. In Canada the party was actually called progressive conservatives. In Ontario they ruled for 40+ years. Controlled the middle and we flourished So only whites are conservatives? What would you say the percentage of conservatives are white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: It's the demographic shift with whites heading towards being just another minority. GOP is in freak out mode over nothing. So instead of embracing diversity and growing their base - these idiots are doubling down on domestic terrorism and inciting a civil war by proactively alienating and erasing blacks, women, LGTBQ, and anyone who doesn’t suck the BIG LIE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: What would you say the percentage of conservatives are white? Not sure what a conservative is today. If you say conservative, today it is an extreme position of anti abortion, guns, immigration, dictatorship dreams, lies, With little time for social issues. If it is fical conservative, I would say whites, asians are 55 45 split. Many poor whites were once dems, today many if them changed teams as issues become more extreme. Blacks would be 25, 75 fiscal conservatives, and Hispanics similar percentage. IMHO. No source except perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Just now, Niagara Bill said: Not sure what a conservative is today. If you say conservative, today it is an extreme position of anti abortion, guns, immigration, dictatorship dreams, lies, With little time for social issues. No source except perception. Wow this is incredibly myopic. You seriously need to re-evaluate that nonsense. Get out and meet more people. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, BillStime said: So instead of embracing diversity and growing their base - these idiots are doubling down on domestic terrorism and inciting a civil war by proactively alienating and erasing blacks, women, LGTBQ, and anyone who doesn’t suck the BIG LIE. Cannot agree. I don't see real moderate conservatives as being anti Lgtbq, or anti woman, or anti black. Extremers...yes but not majority. But it is easy to be anti certain culture norms like drug, gangs, anti family etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Cannot agree. I don't see real moderate conservatives as being anti Lgtbq, or anti woman, or anti black. Extremers...yes but not majority. But it is easy to be anti certain culture norms like drug, gangs, anti family etc It’s all or nothing with the cult. Rhinos will soon be voting with the Democrats. And… As you can see from the recipes above - the cult is getting exacerbated having to defend the indefensible. Edited May 24, 2022 by BillStime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said: No gun rights is a right wing fight to keep.nra. No leftist wants a balanced budget, just spend. Leftist politicians think they can solve the climate issue, through legislation and taxes, right wing believes this is wrong. Seriously....THINK. I asked, when did extremes take over both parties, even in Canada. Who is middle of the road? NOBODY with power. You are telling me to THINK but somehow don't see the right to self defense as a moderate issue, a balanced budget as a moderate issue, and don't realize how insane it is to believe politicians will fix the environment through punishing legislation for our citizens when China and India pollute far more than we do. I am informed and don't like Republicans truly but the Dems are completely wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: You are telling me to THINK but somehow don't see the right to self defense as a moderate issue, a balanced budget as a moderate issue, and don't realize how insane it is to believe politicians will fix the environment through punishing legislation for our citizens when China and India pollute far more than we do. I am informed and don't like Republicans truly but the Dems are completely wrong Ok BT. I am not trying to tell you anything. Only asking the question. Extreme political positions and extremists have taken over the politics of US and Canada. Why. What was the catalyst. Campaign finance? Why are leaders listening to these extremes? We know that any member of NRA is never voting dem. So why worry about pleasing them if you are republican? Is it money? As I said, Reagan could not get elected today...he was too middle ground, he did try to govern for all citizens. Not possible today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Geez people! Conservative means you are generally resistant to change and risk . Progressive means you are generally pushing for change and less resistant to risk. The terms have little or nothing to do with the daily blather being spouted on this message board. Skin color and sexual orientation are not exclusive to either conservatives or progressives, no matter what the elites try and brainwash the masses into thinking. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Gerrymandering congressional districts means that we elect more extreme candidates because they don't even bother to pretend representing people in their district from the other political party. This is a big one. The percentage of House districts that are truly competitive has been in decline for a long time. When your representative doesn't have to moderate his or her views even a little bit in order to get reelected, you get what we've got now. And it's not going to change anytime soon - political consultants are really, really good now at slicing a dicing the map by census tract until they've chosen the voters they want. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/feb/12/us-redistricting-house-seats-safe-competitive-districts Ooh, liberal pub, I must disregard that! Well how about "ooh, Rupert Murdoch owned pub says the same thing" https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-political-maps-will-kill-swing-districts-from-coast-to-coast-11639305003 We've diagnosed the problem, but it doesn't appear fixable - that would require the people in charge, those that benefit from their safe seats, to take action against their own interests. I am still hanging onto my generally optimistic view of America's proven ability to sooner or later fix things: "the thing about things that can't go on like this forever is that they don't." But it's getting awfully hard to keep the faith ... Edited May 24, 2022 by The Frankish Reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: This is a big one. The percentage of House districts that are truly competitive has been in decline for a long time. When your representative doesn't have to moderate his or her views even a little bit in order to get reelected, you get what we've got now. And it's not going to change anytime soon - political consultants are really, really good now at slicing a dicing the map by census tract until they've chosen the voters they want. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2022/feb/12/us-redistricting-house-seats-safe-competitive-districts Ooh, liberal pub, I must disregard that! Well how about "ooh, Rupert Murdoch owned pub says the same thing" https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-political-maps-will-kill-swing-districts-from-coast-to-coast-11639305003 We've diagnosed the problem, but it doesn't appear fixable - that would require the people in charge, those that benefit from their safe seats, to take action against their own interests. I am still hanging onto my generally optimistic view of America's proven ability to sooner or later fix things: "the thing about things that can't go on like this forever is that they don't." But it's getting awfully hard to keep the faith ... So you are saying politicians are generally greedy scumbags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 43 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: So you are saying politicians are generally greedy scumbags? Greedy and self centered? 90% Scumbags? 50% [looks up old probability and stats text] So both greedy and a scumbag: a mere 45% see, I told you there’s still reason for optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 We've gone well past the point of no return. There's no reaching across the aisle to compromise anymore. The left has gone off the deep end. The right has largely stood still. Those of us in the middle understand the difference and aren't left with the giant turd vs. ***** sandwich dilemma of the past few decades. The left has become the giant turd quadruple decker ***** sandwich rolled into one. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, DRsGhost said: We've gone well past the point of no return. There's no reaching across the aisle to compromise anymore. The left has gone off the deep end. The right has largely stood still. Those of us in the middle understand the difference and aren't left with the giant turd vs. ***** sandwich dilemma of the past few decades. The left has become the giant turd quadruple decker ***** sandwich rolled into one. Ladies and Gentleman - irony is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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