Khalil Mack traded to Chargers for 2nd and 6th round picks

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Chandler Jones was my first preference. If news comes down that the Bills are about to sign Chandler Jones when the tampering period opens (think its Monday) then I don't care at all about the Mack deal. 

The concern is that Jones signs elsewhere, and we get the classic report, “The Bills were also in on Jones but he’s going to X,Y,Z.” 
 

That will make me scream.

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Is your argument that our DL is really good then?

No, the argument is that it isn’t a dumpster fire here either and we have 3 young guys we just added to it the last 2 years who are ready to see the field more.
 

The argument is who cares we didn’t trade for a 32 year old who makes a ton against the cap and hasn’t had double digit sacks in 3 years and has durability issues now.  Get over it, there are other options, in fact better and cheaper ones if that’s they want to go like Chandler Jones. 
 

To sit here and whine AGAIN about some older vet as if our season depended on it or that Beane somehow blew something is ridiculous and like being in the movie Groundhog Day.  TSW does this literally every single offseason, cry about some player we didn’t get as if Beane is a moron.

 

Meanwhile, while everyone’s whining about some player we “whiffed” on, Beane has built us into a powerhouse to stay a while that was a 13 second blunder from probably making the Super Bowl this year, and a good shot at winning it WITHOUT all these old guys people freaked out we didn’t get.

 

So again, who cares about Mack.  It was never going to happen with his cap hit AND draft capital we need to go get this dude.  The fact so many think we, or should I say Beane, would ever give up valuable draft assets and that much cap space for a 32 DE who gets hurt and hasn’t turned in double digit sacks since 2018 is beyond me.  
 

But in traditional form…he’s a name they know, so now let’s over exaggerate and blow this out of proportion and be dramatic as if we are screwed before the free agency even begins.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No, the argument is that it isn’t a dumpster fire here either and we have 3 young guys we just added to it the last 2 years who are ready to see the field more.
 

The argument is who cares we didn’t trade for a 32 year old who makes a ton against the cap and hasn’t had double digit sacks in 3 years and has durability issues now.  Get over it, there are other options, in fact better and cheaper ones if that’s they want to go like Chandler Jones. 
 

To sit here and whine AGAIN about some older vet as if our season depended on it or that Beane somehow blew something is ridiculous and like being in the movie Groundhog Day.  TSW does this literally every single offseason, cry about some old vet we didn’t get as if Beane is a moron.

 

Meanwhile, while everyone’s whining about some player we “whiffed” on, Beane has built us into a powerhouse to stay a while that was a 13 second blunder from probably making the Super Bowl this year, and a good shot at winning it WITHOUT all these old guys people freaked out we didn’t get.

 

So again, who cares about Mack.  It was never going to happen with his cap hit AND draft capital we need to go get this dude.  The fact so many think we, or should I say Beane, would ever give up valuable draft assets and that much cap space for a 32 DE who gets hurt and hasn’t turned in double digit sacks since 2018 is beyond me.  
 

But in traditional form…he’s a name they know, so now let’s over exaggerate and blow this out of proportion and be dramatic as if we are screwed before the free agency even begins.

So do you think we need a Chandler Jones type upgrade or no? I’m kinda confused. 
 

If we pursue Chandler Jones, and don’t get him, is it then okay to be mad we didn’t get Khalil Mack?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with Alpha that the Bills are more effective at affecting the passer than most fans think. However, I also agree with you (and I think @Alphadawg7 would too) that a genuine, proven, finisher off the edge is still a need. I mean at the very least they have to replace Addison's production which was underwhelming in 2020 but pretty good in a situational role in 2021 and he led the team in sacks both years. But their intention should be to pay one guy the sort of money they were sharing between Addison and Hughes last year and get an upgrade. 

I would love a true finisher too, so you’re correct.  But I’m also not in panic mode because we have 3 young guys about to play bigger roles, and I think Rousseau has that potential.

 

I wouldn’t be opposed to us signing Chandler for the right deal for example.  
 

But I also am not in total panic mode about our situation either.  I’m more concerned about interior DL as Phillips is a FA and Star isnt getting any younger and is still a possible cap casualty later on when it’s cheaper to cut him.  

Edited March 11, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I would love a true finisher too, so you’re correct.  But I’m also not in panic mode because we have 3 young guys about to play bigger roles, and I think Rousseau has that potential.

 

I wouldn’t be opposed to us signing Chandler for the right deal for example.  
 

But I also am not in total panic mode about our situation either.  I’m more concerned about interior DL as Phillips is a FA and Star isnt getting any younger and is still a possible cap casualty later on when it’s cheaper to cut him.  

I need a DT or Pass rusher added that we can depend on. I still love the idea of Calias Campbell for a year.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So do you think we need a Chandler Jones type upgrade or no? I’m kinda confused. 
 

If we pursue Chandler Jones, and don’t get him, is it then okay to be mad we didn’t get Khalil Mack?

 

I am not saying we "need" anything, we have 3 guys we spent first and 2nd round picks on the last 2 years.  I expect them all to be a big part of the rotation and I think Rousseau has a lot of potential.  I expect them to sign someone, and I would be fine with a Chandler Jones.  But there are other options and more importantly, our whole season doesn't depend on it by any means. 

 

I am not going to sit here and say that if missed on two 32 year old defensive ends our season is somehow in jeopardy.  I am sure as hell glad we didnt give up 2 draft picks and all that cap space for Mack, that would have hurt our ability to shore up more pressing needs.

 

Who plays corner?  White is coming off an injury that can take a whole season to find his form again, and Levi is a FA.  Who plays DT?  Everyone says Star should or will be cut and Philips is a FA.  Who is catching passes if Cole gets traded?  What about our IOL and RT?  

 

So sorry, Mack wasn't;t the end all be all piece to get to a SB, and neither is Chandler Jones.  Could they start and help the team here, sure, but its NOT like we are doomed without them.  

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Beane has built us into a powerhouse to stay a while that was a 13 second blunder from probably making the Super Bowl this year, and a good shot at winning it WITHOUT all these old guys people freaked out we didn’t get.

 

We need to get away from this narrative that the Bills were 13 seconds away from a Super Bowl. We were only in position to win that game because Allen played out of his mind. The Chiefs were the more talented team and it showed. They missed an XP and a FG and it still took Allen having arguably one of the best playoff QB performances of all time for us to even come close to winning. There's still a moderately sized talent gap that we need to fill if we want a realistic chance of passing the Chiefs in the playoffs.

[John from Riverside]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The concern is that Jones signs elsewhere, and we get the classic report, “The Bills were also in on Jones but he’s going to X,Y,Z.” 
 

That will make me scream.

I am just curious what you would do to prevent this.  Pay him more?

[Magox]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ogbah is a liability in the run game. No way the Bills sign him. Reddick doesn't fit the defense. Randy Gregory doesn't fit the process. My point isn't whether they are better players it is whether they are realistically in play for the Bills knowing what we know about the way McDermott and Beane operate. You are down to the big two and then Jadaveon Clowney once you write off the guys who are almost certainly not going to be in the Bills' plans. 

 

As you know, Buffalo uses heavy rotation, if they can't get plan A such as a Chandler, Miller or even Jadaveon, then I wouldn't be surprised that they will look to get someone who is good at getting after the QB and wouldn't be used on many running anticipated downs.

 

The guys I listed would fit the Bill just fine for that purpose.

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

We could have made trades last season during the season and we didn’t. LA did and the results speak for themselves. We need to get better he needs to try harder and get better results with his signings to suggest he doesn’t is ignorant.

 

You want to copy the previous year's SB winner every year?   Beane has a plan and its working great IMO.  You can't make an argument we lost that KC game because we didn't do what LA did during the season. 

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am just curious what you would do to prevent this.  Pay him more?

or trade for Khalil Mack if I wasn't prepared to be outbid.

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I would love a true finisher too, so you’re correct.  But I’m also not in panic mode because we have 3 young guys about to play bigger roles, and I think Rousseau has that potential.

 

I wouldn’t be opposed to us signing Chandler for the right deal for example.  
 

But I also am not in total panic mode about our situation either.  I’m more concerned about interior DL as Phillips is a FA and Star isnt getting any younger and is still a possible cap casualty later on when it’s cheaper to cut him.  

 

So I am more concerned than that I'd say. I think Greg will come on for the trip last year as well but I was never big on Boogie as an NFL pass rushing prospect (long before Beane picked him) and while I had some hope for AJE this time last year that wore off some as the year went on. Plus we would need those guys to get better even to get us back to where we were, because Hughes who played the most snaps among our edge guys and had the most pressures is likely gone as is Addison, second in pressures and the sack leader. So if we are not able to bring in a proven vet upgrade it leaves a lot of ground for the three young guys to make up just to get us back to where we ended last season and I would say that was still a little bit lacking a finisher. 

 

I wasn't mad keen on the idea of Mack at all, but at the price he went for that was an opportunity. I'd much rather Chandler Jones but if we miss out on Jones and miss out on Von Miller the cupboard gets bare quickly after that in FA and then I would be pretty concerned about our edge group going into 2022. 

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You want to copy the previous year's SB winner every year?   Beane has a plan and its working great IMO.  You can't make an argument we lost that KC game because we didn't do what LA did during the season. 

Sure you can. One extra sack and maybe it doesn't come down to 13 seconds.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

or trade for Khalil Mack if I wasn't prepared to be outbid.

What do we do about the enormous contract due to Mack?  I love the guy......but you know that is an aspect to this as well.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What do we do about the enormous contract due to Mack?  I love the guy......but you know that is an aspect to this as well.

Restructure.  Chandler Jones is going to go for $18M AAV (maybe $20M with multiple suitors), how are we going to pay for that?

Edited March 11, 2022 by FireChans

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You want to copy the previous year's SB winner every year?   Beane has a plan and its working great IMO.  You can't make an argument we lost that KC game because we didn't do what LA did during the season. 

 

He does and it is, but at some point he will have to get more daring with the cap IMO. He will have to get away from his desire to build depth in order to lure the extra difference maker or two we need. It's as I said earlier, you are not better with Hughes and Addison, you are better with spending the kind of money they counted against the cap combined in 2021 on a single guy who might get double digit sacks and who is going to finish in the big moments. 

 

We could get over the hump with the careful every year approach but if it isn't getting it done at some point you need to gamble. I'm not saying be reckless. But kick the can on Diggs's deal and White's deal to allow yourself the chance to get a potential difference making vet pass rusher. Hopefully one of the two big free agent options comes off. If not I think Mack was an opportunity and while it came with a cost attached I'd consider it an opportunity missed if we don't land someone else. 

[Alphadawg7]

27 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Sure you can. One extra sack and maybe it doesn't come down to 13 seconds.

 

Thats an absurd statement because you can do that with ANY aspect of the game.  One more first down by us, one more pass block, on more yard on offense, one more catch...etc etc.  Or how about one more SQUIB KICK.  I mean its endless.  So if you want to play that game, it applies to the whole roster.

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He does and it is, but at some point he will have to get more daring with the cap IMO. He will have to get away from his desire to build depth in order to lure the extra difference maker or two we need. It's as I said earlier, you are not better with Hughes and Addison, you are better with spending the kind of money they counted against the cap combined in 2021 on a single guy who might get double digit sacks and who is going to finish in the big moments. 

 

We could get over the hump with the careful every year approach but if it isn't getting it done at some point you need to gamble. I'm not saying be reckless. But kick the can on Diggs's deal and White's deal to allow yourself the chance to get a potential difference making vet pass rusher. Hopefully one of the two big free agent options comes off. If not I think Mack was an opportunity and while it came with a cost attached I'd consider it an opportunity missed if we don't land someone else. 

Thank you. It is relatively easy to throw around money to mid tier FA’s to build an okay unit. It is much harder to hit home runs. Every team in the NFL is trying to get better. We cannot continue to just try to stand pat. That’s how you end up a perennial bridesmaid.

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats an absurd statement because you can do that with ANY aspect of the game.  One more first down by us, one more pass block, on more yard on offense, one more catch...etc etc.  Or how about one more SQUIB KICK.  I mean its endless.  So if you want to play that game, it applies to the whole roster.

Correct. I think we should be trying to get better at DB, HB, OL, EDGE, IDL, LB. sure you can’t get better EVERYWHERE, but to say having better players wouldn’t change the result of a game is flat out wrong.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

We need to get away from this narrative that the Bills were 13 seconds away from a Super Bowl. We were only in position to win that game because Allen played out of his mind. The Chiefs were the more talented team and it showed. They missed an XP and a FG and it still took Allen having arguably one of the best playoff QB performances of all time for us to even come close to winning. There's still a moderately sized talent gap that we need to fill if we want a realistic chance of passing the Chiefs in the playoffs.

 

Chiefs are getting weaker likely this year, guys like Honey Badger aren't likely back.  Their defense is going to likely be worse than it was last year.  They still need help on the OL, at WR, etc. too.  

 

They may not even win their division.  We arguably beat them TWICE last year.  So I would counter and say that 13 seconds is important.  Mahomes had to play out of his mind too, people forget that, something Mahomes couldn't duplicate the next week and lost for it.  Just like he couldn't do it when we beat them earlier in the season too.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[nedboy7]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Sure you can. One extra sack and maybe it doesn't come down to 13 seconds.

 

Hey there is an argument by some that the world is flat. 

[John from Riverside]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He does and it is, but at some point he will have to get more daring with the cap IMO. He will have to get away from his desire to build depth in order to lure the extra difference maker or two we need. It's as I said earlier, you are not better with Hughes and Addison, you are better with spending the kind of money they counted against the cap combined in 2021 on a single guy who might get double digit sacks and who is going to finish in the big moments. 

 

We could get over the hump with the careful every year approach but if it isn't getting it done at some point you need to gamble. I'm not saying be reckless. But kick the can on Diggs's deal and White's deal to allow yourself the chance to get a potential difference making vet pass rusher. Hopefully one of the two big free agent options comes off. If not I think Mack was an opportunity and while it came with a cost attached I'd consider it an opportunity missed if we don't land someone else. 

I am going to say at this point I am a fan of doing the restructures to have enough to get that difference maker.....its just that difference maker still needs to be in the prime of their career and be a DIFFERENCE MAKER.....

[Alphadawg7]

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Thank you. It is relatively easy to throw around money to mid tier FA’s to build an okay unit. It is much harder to hit home runs. Every team in the NFL is trying to get better. We cannot continue to just try to stand pat. That’s how you end up a perennial bridesmaid.

Correct. I think we should be trying to get better at DB, HB, OL, EDGE, IDL, LB. sure you can’t get better EVERYWHERE, but to say having better players wouldn’t change the result of a game is flat out wrong.

 

Literally zero people are suggesting to stand pat.  Show me one person even remotely implying that.  We are saying get over Mack.  Big difference.  We have an 18 page of people whining about a 32 year old DE who doesn't stay healthy and hasn't had a double digit sack season in 3 years.  One that would not only cost us a lot of cap space, meaning LESS improvements elsewhere, but also cost us 2 draft picks we could use on other key spots like WR, CB, or even DL, especially the 2nd rounder.  

 

You alway paint a narrative thats not there.  ITs possible to not like the acquisition of Mack and still want to improve the team.  But by this thread, you would think our season is doomed because we didn't trade for Mack.  

 

 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Guys don't worry, Beane knows exactly what he's doing.

 

Boogie Basham is primed for a break out season !!!

Edited March 11, 2022 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Literally zero people are suggesting to stand pat.  Show me one person even remotely implying that.  We are saying get over Mack.  Big difference.  We have an 18 page of people whining about a 32 year old DE who doesn't stay healthy and hasn't had a double digit sack season in 3 years.  One that would not only cost us a lot of cap space, meaning LESS improvements elsewhere, but also cost us 2 draft picks we could use on other key spots like WR, CB, or even DL, especially the 2nd rounder.  

 

You alway paint a narrative thats not there.  ITs possible to not like the acquisition of Mack and still want to improve the team.  But by this thread, you would think our season is doomed because we didn't trade for Mack.  

 

 

I want to upgrade our pass rush. If we sign Bobby Wagner and trade Edmunds for Hunter, im cool with that. If we sign Chandler Jones im cool with that.

 

If we are waiting for Boogie and AJ to develop into star caliber players, I am NOT cool with that.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I want to upgrade our pass rush. If we sign Bobby Wagner and trade Edmunds for Hunter, im cool with that. If we sign Chandler Jones im cool with that.

 

If we are waiting for Boogie and AJ to develop into star caliber players, I am NOT cool with that.

 

I would be stunned if Beane just relied on just Boogie and AJE to emerge this year.  I mean the number one thing Beane talks about is pass rush.  So I highly doubt he rests on whats currently on the roster.  

 

The over exaggerated panic because we didn't trade for a 32 year old DE who hasn't hit double digit sacks in 3 years, has durability issues, and a big cap hit is just classic TSW sky is falling gibberish.  

[FireChans]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I would be stunned if Beane just relied on just Boogie and AJE to emerge this year.  I mean the number one thing Beane talks about is pass rush.  So I highly doubt he rests on whats currently on the roster.  

 

The over exaggerated panic because we didn't trade for a 32 year old DE who hasn't hit double digit sacks in 3 years, has durability issues, and a big cap hit is just classic TSW sky is falling gibberish.  

 

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am not saying we "need" anything, we have 3 guys we spent first and 2nd round picks on the last 2 years.  I expect them all to be a big part of the rotation and I think Rousseau has a lot of potential.  I expect them to sign someone, and I would be fine with a Chandler Jones.  But there are other options and more importantly, our whole season doesn't depend on it by any means. 

 

I am not going to sit here and say that if missed on two 32 year old defensive ends our season is somehow in jeopardy.  I am sure as hell glad we didnt give up 2 draft picks and all that cap space for Mack, that would have hurt our ability to shore up more pressing needs.

 

Who plays corner?  White is coming off an injury that can take a whole season to find his form again, and Levi is a FA.  Who plays DT?  Everyone says Star should or will be cut and Philips is a FA.  Who is catching passes if Cole gets traded?  What about our IOL and RT?  

 

So sorry, Mack wasn't;t the end all be all piece to get to a SB, and neither is Chandler Jones.  Could they start and help the team here, sure, but its NOT like we are doomed without them.  

Does not compute. 
 

no one is saying the season is over. That’s a complete strawman. Folks just want stars to get us over the hump. If we rolled with Boogie and co, I would still expect us to be a playoff team. I just would rather win a super bowl.

[Malazan]

Just now, FireChans said:

no one is saying the season is over. That’s a complete strawman. Folks just want stars names they recognize completely unhinged from their results to make them feel better without regard for whether they would actually get us over the hump. If we rolled with Boogie and co, I would still expect us to be a playoff team. I just would rather win a super bowl.

 

I fixed it for you.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Malazan said:

 

I fixed it for you.

Hey man if you think Chandler Jones and Khalil Mack suck, that’s your opinion. I think they are both major upgrades at DE.

[Malazan]

Just now, FireChans said:

Hey man if you think Chandler Jones and Khalil Mack suck, that’s your opinion. I think they are both major upgrades at DE.

 

You do love your strawmen. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

You do love your strawmen. 

I wouldn’t want good DE’s if I felt we didn’t need them. I wouldn’t want them if I didn’t think they were good.

 

If you think Khalil Mack is washed, I get not wanting him. I really do. I disagree that he’s washed, but that’s your opinion.

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I wouldn’t want good DE’s if I felt we didn’t need them. I wouldn’t want them if I didn’t think they were good.

 

If you think Khalil Mack is washed, I get not wanting him. I really do. I disagree that he’s washed, but that’s your opinion.

 

I don't think he's washed. I think his production is not commiserate with his salary, contract term and age. I'd rather put that money towards Jones or Ogbah.

 

Mack and Ogbah average roughly the same amount of sacks. I'd rather overpay Ogbah at 20-25 per for the next 3 years than Mack at 20. Ogbah could actually raise his output and has been more consistent the last 3 years. While still very good, Mack is clearly trending down. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Malazan

[Blank Stare]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:37 AM, ProcessTruster said:

$140m contract.  $18m Cap hit annually.   No way Bills can go anywhere near that thing.   Think more like me before you post people.   

FIFY. 
 

The contract sucks, but you do realize they could’ve made it work if they really wanted to, right? They have the ability to create upwards of $30 million in cap space this year if they wanted to pull every lever. They won’t do that, but they could. But you knew that, right? 
 

Stud pass rushers cost big $. They didn’t want to do this deal? That’s fine. I understand that. But let’s not act like they couldn’t do it if they really wanted to. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by TheProcess

[Meatloaf63]

22 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You want to copy the previous year's SB winner every year?   Beane has a plan and its working great IMO.  You can't make an argument we lost that KC game because we didn't do what LA did during the season. 

I want the team improved by any means necessary, if the off-season  moves are not adequately improving the team, then make some in season to fix deficiencies. We lost to KC because we didn’t have a difference maker on defense and our head coach and defensive coordinator are stupid at times.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 3/10/2022 at 5:06 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah because he spent a first round pick on Ed Oliver.. a first round pick on Gregg.. a second round pick on boogie.. and another second round pick on AJ

 

I think he is trying to solve it via the draft 

 

Whether it works out in the Long haul is up in the air but he certainly has thrown Capital at it

They also spent plenty of money on the dline also as of 2020 we had the highest paid dline in the league not sure we’re we ranked last yr but pretty sure it was still high. Nothing has worked could be a system problem. 

[junior]

4 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

They also spent plenty of money on the dline also as of 2020 we had the highest paid dline in the league not sure we’re we ranked last yr but pretty sure it was still high. Nothing has worked could be a system problem. 

 

I disagree with the team's approach to rotating DL. Other teams are able to deploy their DEs/DTs at 75%+ snap rate - why can't we? It feels like when you do this, you either lose out because your premier players aren't playing as much as they could, and/or you need to pay higher quality rotational guys because you don't want a C-level player out there for significant number of snaps.