Taiwan Jones on About The Game Pod (Squib related)

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Could you imagine if the kick was a squib or a pop up and was miraculously returned to the Chief’s side of the field (or worst, a TD)? We all might be saying how dumb it was not to boot it through the EZ and play 13 seconds of defense. I see the argument for both sides and support whichever decision, but it was the 2 defensive play calls that I felt had no defense or counter-argument. Those vex me more than the kick.

If Hill was back there I'd go touchback. But Hardman can be contained or even baited to a return rather than a fair catch.  Forcing them to burn that 4 seconds is paramount.  But there's always that risk.  Sean showed conviction to his philosophy (process) and somehow Farwell and the message was never properly delivered. That's why for 3 1/2 quarters I have no problem with Sean being "process guy" and allowing his assistants to do their job. But when the game comes down to  a critical high leverage moment you need a Pete Carroll or Sean McVay type running down the sidelines. It might undermine your assistants to some degree but it could eliminate communication failures.  Belichick does this all the time. 

[JaCrispy]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:59 PM, Gugny said:

 

 

I agree with Dr. D.  That was the single most important play of McDermott's career and the Bills' season.  Goddamn right he should have taken it upon himself - as the LEADER of the team - to ensure everyone was on the same page.

 

Yes - leaders need to rely on their directs to do their jobs.  But there is a thing called, "trust, but verify," which many leaders employ when something is incredibly important.  And McDermott should have employed it.

 

This is a failure on multiple parts. But the biggest fault lies at the feet of Sean McDermott.

 

Absolutely Gugs- especially when the season was in the balance, McD should have made 100% certain that, what he wanted, was being done...👍

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I don't know how many big "learn from my mistakes" coupons he's cashed.   Every team loses games, and at the end of the day a lot of the losses are due to mistakes the coaches made, either during the week or during the game.   And in games decided in the last two minutes, there are mistakes on both sides.   They're all learning, all the time. 

 

So, although I don't know how many coupons he's cashed (not many, I don't think), he's certainly not at the limit.   He's not losing games left and right with bad judgments on the field.   And his overall record is excellent. 

 

And, most importantly, he's young.   He's going to be a much, much smarter coach ten years from now.  His expertise will grow a lot.   And he's very self-directed about his growth.  He examines his failures, determines the causes, and puts a program in place to correct them.   That's part of the process, and he's committed to it.  

 

Reid had growing pains.  Belichick.  McVay has made big mistakes.  McDermott looks very much like a keeper, and until it's certifiable that he can't win big games, the Bills shouldn't let him go.  

I agree with you here.  The wound is still open and the pain is real for me. As a result, I still have some anger issues to get past with Coach McD giving that KC playoff game away. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I don't know if I'm right.  I'm just analyzing how you make the decision about the head coach of the Bills.   I think it's a no brainer. 

 

I often say that it's a mistake to give up on talent too early.   In McD's case, the downside of his staying too long is that he's Schottenheimer.   The upside is that he's Reid, or maybe even Belichick.   

 

The chances of getting a better head coach than McDermott are slim.   I wouldn't be willing to trade him head up for anyone.   Maybe McVay.  Not sure about the guy in SF.   Belichick and Reid are too old.   What are you gonna do, fire McD and hire Bienemy?   Who'd take that risk.  Are you ready to trade even up for the guy in Cincinnati?  I mean, really, I'm riding McD until he's proved conclusively he's Schottenheimer. 

Would you consider Sean Payton as a replacement? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by newcam2012

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Could you imagine if the kick was a squib or a pop up and was miraculously returned to the Chief’s side of the field (or worst, a TD)? We all might be saying how dumb it was not to boot it through the EZ and play 13 seconds of defense. I see the argument for both sides and support whichever decision, but it was the 2 defensive play calls that I felt had no defense or counter-argument. Those vex me more than the kick.

the Kick is 3rd place in the list of mess ups, but it’s a mess up 

 

The long return is less likely than a completion but takes more time… so even worst case is fine.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Has Bass been asked about the kickoff?  All throughout the season, he tried different types of KOs.  On arguably the most important KO of the season, I can't believe that he just took it upon himself to boot it out of the endzone without asking/being told.

I think the assumption would have to be he got an initial call, the call changed in the ST huddle and word wasn’t given to him.

 

not that he whimsically went out with no call and took a guess 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Would you consider Sean Payton as a replacement? 

I wouldn't fire him to hire Payton.  If McD quit, I'd be all in favor of Payton.  

[Lothar]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I wouldn't fire him to hire Payton.  If McD quit, I'd be all in favor of Payton.  

This discussion is completely moot. You'd need to give up multiple first round picks to hire Payton - he's still under contract. Plus firing McD is a silly idea anyway.

[newcam2012]

31 minutes ago, Lothar said:

This discussion is completely moot. You'd need to give up multiple first round picks to hire Payton - he's still under contract. Plus firing McD is a silly idea anyway.

I know it was just a hypothetical. All things even I'd fire Coach McD and hire Payton. I think Payton would bring the fans a super bowl. I'm beginning to question whether McD can close the deal. As someone mentioned, he might be the next Marty S. He certainly choked away the win in KC. He shouldn't get a free pass for that. Next year will tell us more. 

[Mat68]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I know it was just a hypothetical. All things even I'd fire Coach McD and hire Payton. I think Payton would bring the fans a super bowl. I'm beginning to question whether McD can close the deal. As someone mentioned, he might be the next Marty S. He certainly choked away the win in KC. He shouldn't get a free pass for that. Next year will tell us more. 

If Buffalo fails to win the division or AFC title game I would consider it.  Payton and Allen would a match made in football heaven.  His recent criticism may be a seed planted.  Could be a Dungy v Gruden type thing.  Would Pegulas make such a bold move to a consistent positive force to the franchise?  Idk.  Another early exit make me have a conversation.

[Billsfan1972]

15 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Could you imagine if the kick was a squib or a pop up and was miraculously returned to the Chief’s side of the field (or worst, a TD)? We all might be saying how dumb it was not to boot it through the EZ and play 13 seconds of defense. I see the argument for both sides and support whichever decision, but it was the 2 defensive play calls that I felt had no defense or counter-argument. Those vex me more than the kick.

No I can't....  Expected that comment eventually.  I too explained in a thread after the game that all year there were 4 Kick return TDs (out of almost 1300).  These were all line drive kicks returned 98-100 yards (no 90 yard TD returns, which is what the directional kick would have required).  Longest return Buffalo allowed all year was 31 yards.

 

Again that wouldn't have been a coaching blunder, it would have been a breakdown on the return team. 

 

The odds and based on there being only 13 seconds & vs. Mahomes, forcing a return was the correct call.

 

Then add a complete meltdown on the final two plays (i.e. no defence whatsoever) and simple, easy passes that even a below average NFL QB could have made all falls at the feet of McD. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

If Buffalo fails to win the division or AFC title game I would consider it.  Payton and Allen would a match made in football heaven.  His recent criticism may be a seed planted.  Could be a Dungy v Gruden type thing.  Would Pegulas make such a bold move to a consistent positive force to the franchise?  Idk.  Another early exit make me have a conversation.

It's interesting to think about.   I'll say this about Payton - even though he's an offensive genius, I've always liked the way his teams play defense.   His defenses attack more than McDermott's, and that attacking nature puts pressure on the opponent.   His offense and defense complement each other in ways that I've said the Bills don't.

 

Still, I think McDermott's method, his commitment to process, will make him and his teams better, year after year.  Payton won it all in his second year as a head coach and failed every season thereafter.  One might argue that his Super Bowl was a lot of things coming together just right, and that he was unable to pull it together after that.   (Nobody would make that argument about Belichick.)  McDermott has the potential to be Belichick, and I'm not going to be in a hurry to replace him, at least not until he proves he's Schottenheimer.  

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It's interesting to think about.   I'll say this about Payton - even though he's an offensive genius, I've always liked the way his teams play defense.   His defenses attack more than McDermott's, and that attacking nature puts pressure on the opponent.   His offense and defense complement each other in ways that I've said the Bills don't.

 

Still, I think McDermott's method, his commitment to process, will make him and his teams better, year after year.  Payton won it all in his second year as a head coach and failed every season thereafter.  One might argue that his Super Bowl was a lot of things coming together just right, and that he was unable to pull it together after that.   (Nobody would make that argument about Belichick.)  McDermott has the potential to be Belichick, and I'm not going to be in a hurry to replace him, at least not until he proves he's Schottenheimer.  

Let's not get carried away with the Belicheat comparasion. I do think McD is a very good coach, has the players respect, and they play hard for him. At times, last year he looked less then very good. A few games the team was flat out not ready to play. For example, Pitt, Jags, and the Colts. Additionally, I felt several times he lacked halftime adjustments and got out coached. Previous years, I felt like the Bills halftime adjustments were very very good. Currently, I believe Coach McD gives the Bills the best chance to hoist the Lombardi Trophy. With that said, I have lost a little confidence in him. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Let's not get carried away with the Belicheat comparasion. I do think McD is a very good coach, has the players respect, and they play hard for him. At times, last year he looked less then very good. A few games the team was flat out not ready to play. For example, Pitt, Jags, and the Colts. Additionally, I felt several times he lacked halftime adjustments and got out coached. Previous years, I felt like the Bills halftime adjustments were very very good. Currently, I believe Coach McD gives the Bills the best chance to hoist the Lombardi Trophy. With that said, I have lost a little confidence in him. 

I didn't say he was Belichick; I said he had the potential.   Careers are long.   Five seasons in, Belichick was 36-44.  McDermott is 49-32.   McDermott is going to get a lot better at his job, as did Belichick.  There's a good chance that 15 years from now, people will be talking about Brady and Bill and Josh and Sean as being the two QB-coach combos that left everyone else in the dust.  

[Billsfan1972]

I just rewatched the 13 second nightmare.  Simple routes, simple passes and no defense.

 

Shaw66, please stop with the Belichek comparisons.  McD is a good to very good coach, but to me the last two years has been more about talent then coaching.

 

I know it may be unfair but show me a game in 2020 or 2021 where it was all about the coaching that won it.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't say he was Belichick; I said he had the potential.   Careers are long.   Five seasons in, Belichick was 36-44.  McDermott is 49-32.   McDermott is going to get a lot better at his job, as did Belichick.  There's a good chance that 15 years from now, people will be talking about Brady and Bill and Josh and Sean as being the two QB-coach combos that left everyone else in the dust.  

That would be a dream come true. 

[Shaw66]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

That would be a dream come true. 

I'll be 90.   Nurses will be the only thing I will dream about. 

[SF Bills Fan]

I can’t believe this somehow got botched. It likely cost us a trip to the Super Bowl that we had a decent shot at winning 

56 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I just rewatched the 13 second nightmare.  Simple routes, simple passes and no defense.

 

Shaw66, please stop with the Belichek comparisons.  McD is a good to very good coach, but to me the last two years has been more about talent then coaching.

 

I know it may be unfair but show me a game in 2020 or 2021 where it was all about the coaching that won it.

I’m never going to watch it again- too painful

[newcam2012]

58 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I just rewatched the 13 second nightmare.  Simple routes, simple passes and no defense.

 

Shaw66, please stop with the Belichek comparisons.  McD is a good to very good coach, but to me the last two years has been more about talent then coaching.

 

I know it may be unfair but show me a game in 2020 or 2021 where it was all about the coaching that won it.

Sadly, I agree. The opening game vs Pitt really told me a lot about the Bills coaching staff. The players were flat, not ready to play, man handled, and unprepared. Coming out the second half of was more of the same. Little halftime adjustments. Same goes for the Jags and the Colts. Finally, I saw halftime adjustments in the Tampa game. The coaches were not good in the first game vs NE. I'd say the coaches lost more games than they won last year. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, SF Bills Fan said:

I can’t believe this somehow got botched. It likely cost us a trip to the Super Bowl that we had a decent shot at winning 

I’m never going to watch it again- too painful

At some point we will probably watch it with disdain. That game was one of the best games the NFL has seen. It will be replayed often for years to come. For me, a super bowl win will ease the pain. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

At some point we will probably watch it with disdain. That game was one of the best games the NFL has seen. It will be replayed often for years to come. For me, a super bowl win will ease the pain. 

 A great 59:47, no need to warch more.  There were mistakes on both sides, but a very cleanly played game.

[Brand J]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I just rewatched the 13 second nightmare.  Simple routes, simple passes and no defense.

Which is why I don’t buy the “but the defense was gassed!” narrative explaining how the Chiefs got 44 yards in 10 seconds. The Jaguars’ 3rd string QB could’ve made those passes. There were no physical breakdowns, no one got beat due to fatigue. Just a shame that scenario had to happen in the playoffs and not a regular season game. McD is definitely learning some hard lessons.

[frostbitmic]

The way I interpret the rules on a kickoff, if the receiving team fair catches the football, whether it be the 5,10,15 yard line, the ball is placed at the 25 with no time run off the clock. Am I correct in that assumption ?

 

If the kick is squibbed, a player falling on the ball ends the play with at most 1 second coming off the clock. I'm sure that Coach Andy would've drilled that into the heads of his receiving team. That play didn't cost us the game.

[Billsfan1972]

10 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

The way I interpret the rules on a kickoff, if the receiving team fair catches the football, whether it be the 5,10,15 yard line, the ball is placed at the 25 with no time run off the clock. Am I correct in that assumption ?

 

If the kick is squibbed, a player falling on the ball ends the play with at most 1 second coming off the clock. I'm sure that Coach Andy would've drilled that into the heads of his receiving team. That play didn't cost us the game.

No it is at the spot of the catch.  It is brought to the 25 yard line in College Football.

11 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Which is why I don’t buy the “but the defense was gassed!” narrative explaining how the Chiefs got 44 yards in 10 seconds. The Jaguars’ 3rd string QB could’ve made those passes. There were no physical breakdowns, no one got beat due to fatigue. Just a shame that scenario had to happen in the playoffs and not a regular season game. McD is definitely learning some hard lessons.

While I do believe they were gassed, the defense was so bad, it had nothing to do with Patrick Mahomes driving them 43 yards.  Buffalo gifted them those yards. 

[Einstein]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:24 PM, Shaw66 said:

It's not his job.   

 

It is his job.

 

On 2/16/2022 at 12:24 PM, Shaw66 said:

McDermott can't be talking to individual players every time a big play is coming up.

 

Great coaches do this all the time.

 

Belichick routinely goes up to individual players and position groups in key situations.

[Billsfan1972]

34 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It is his job.

 

 

Great coaches do this all the time.

 

Belichick routinely goes up to individual players and position groups in key situations.

Of course at the most crucial juncture it is his responsibility (i.e. The Buck Stops Here).

 

BTW again never answered, but don't special teams huddle before the kickoff.  Again I just don't it that if the play was called, Bass the most important person didn't know.

[T master]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:20 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

How does McD not walk over to Bass, grab him by the facemask, and tell him exactly what he wants? There was sooooo much time to get the call right.

 

This could be a huge reason why the ST coach is gone maybe he reamed him so bad after Heath didn't like to be called out for his blunder !

 

McD delegates to those who he thinks should know to do their job & being a really good coach wouldn't throw that guy under the bus but claimed it as his fault by saying it starts with him .

 

Although i get your point 100% i believe McD will get more good coaches to come to B/Lo by falling on the sword rather than casting blame & that will be better for the Bills future ! 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, T master said:

 

This could be a huge reason why the ST coach is gone maybe he reamed him so bad after Heath didn't like to be called out for his blunder !

 

McD delegates to those who he thinks should know to do their job & being a really good coach wouldn't throw that guy under the bus but claimed it as his fault by saying it starts with him .

 

Although i get your point 100% i believe McD will get more good coaches to come to B/Lo by falling on the sword rather than casting blame & that will be better for the Bills future ! 

Again don't excuse McD.  Coaching decisions, begin and end with him.   I always love how his "fans" turn these things into positives.

 

Yes according to some he is not a micro-manager (though from what I see from McD, I expect that is not the case), but with 13 seconds left in the game, you have to be.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[2003Contenders]

Honestly, over the last few weeks I have managed to come to grips with how things went down.

 

It was pretty clear to anyone watching that both QBs were in the zone that game. The proverbial, "the team touching the ball last is going to win", was exactly what happened. Yes, the miscommunication on the kickoff was bad. Yes, the design (or lack thereof) of the defense on those final two plays was a mess. But, the way Mahomes was playing that day, I am not sure that anything would have mattered. If the Chiefs needed a TD there in those final 13 seconds  instead of a FG -- they probably find a way to get it done.

 

The same was true of Josh. For example, on the series immediately after Hill scored the go-ahead TD with only about a minute to go, on the first play from scrimmage, Josh fired a 28-yard completion to Davis down the middle of the field. Earlier he hit Davis on a 75-yard TD on the first play of that series too.

 

When this game is safely in the distant past, as much as it hurts, I think we will be able to look back on it with some degree of reverence. Instead of blaming the coaches, kicker, defense, etc. we will be able to credit some of the superlative playing we witnessed and say that this was one of the greatest playoff games in NFL history.

[st pete gogolak]

Was flipping through the channels and caught replay of TB game.  Opening kickoff.  Bass pooches to right corner.  TB returner caught it at 8 or 9 yard line and returns to the 24.  Bass did this successfully all year.  I was shocked we couldn't execute this at end of KC game.  This exact kickoff puts KC in terrible dilemma.  KC returner can (1) let it bounce and hope it rolls into the end zone (ball on 25) or out of bounds (ball on 40).  If neither happens, game is probably over. (2) fair catch at the 8 or 9 yard line.  The extra 15 yards make FG that much more difficult.  Of course, you still need to play defense so maybe it goes into overtime in any event. (3) return the ball and break a long return.  Absent a long return, game over except for a long Hail Mary.  Again, who knows but I'd like our chances defending a Hail Mary.

[Billsfan1972]

And again watching the replay of the last 13 seconds yesterday, there was Romo saying something along the line "oh no they kicked it long".

 

So can hardly wait another year of McD excuses......😜

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

It is his job.

 

 

Great coaches do this all the time.

 

Belichick routinely goes up to individual players and position groups in key situations.

Have you never seen McDermott talking to players during the game?  I have.   Of course, coaches talk to their players.   How many times have players made mistakes on important plays when their coach did NOT talk to them before the play?   All the time.   All the time.   

 

I'll repeat.   There's no way, no way at all, for a coach to know which play is pivotal in a game and to know which player to talk to avoid a mistake.   No way.  

 

McDermott called a routine play, and he has a coach who's responsible to deliver the play call to the 11 guys who will execute it.  How was McDermott supposed to figure out that Bass might not be getting the message?   I'll repeat:  On the immediately preceding touchdown, Allen to Davis, the absolute most important play of the game to that point, did McDermott call timeout and remind Davis what his route was?   Of course not.  If Davis had run the wrong route, the Bills wouldn't have scored the go-ahead touchdown.   Would you be criticizing McDermott for not reminding Davis?

[Billsfan1972]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Have you never seen McDermott talking to players during the game?  I have.   Of course, coaches talk to their players.   How many times have players made mistakes on important plays when their coach did NOT talk to them before the play?   All the time.   All the time.   

 

I'll repeat.   There's no way, no way at all, for a coach to know which play is pivotal in a game and to know which player to talk to avoid a mistake.   No way.  

 

McDermott called a routine play, and he has a coach who's responsible to deliver the play call to the 11 guys who will execute it.  How was McDermott supposed to figure out that Bass might not be getting the message?   I'll repeat:  On the immediately preceding touchdown, Allen to Davis, the absolute most important play of the game to that point, did McDermott call timeout and remind Davis what his route was?   Of course not.  If Davis had run the wrong route, the Bills wouldn't have scored the go-ahead touchdown.   Would you be criticizing McDermott for not reminding Davis?

Do you not huddle before the kick?  Did 10 players know the call & Bass did not?  Wouldn't that have come out? 

 

Shaw I don't care about the other 59:47.  It was a well played & coached game, but there were bad (or wrong) calls throughout the game, like there are every game.

 

Get the last 13 seconds right (heck just one play) and the Bills win.  The Coaching decisions & calls were screwed up three straight plays.  Mahomes, Kelce and Hill did not make plays, the Bills coaches handed them 43 yards.

 

Stop defending McD!!!!!  He blew it.  

Edited February 23, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[JESSEFEFFER]

There was a story a couple of years ago about how McDermott had gotten in Matt Fairburn's face about his reporting on the pregame messages he'd seen posted around the Bills facility and about the Bills practicing a fake punt.  The story was presented in a way that made McDermott look like a jerk.  It did not come from Fairburn as he probably did not want to make it a big deal which would make it even worse.  At the time, I thought that is the way McDermott is.  He is the anti-Rex in that way and that's what I think a team needs from their head coach.  Someone obsessed over details because you can never know which detail will get you beat.  The whole "for want of a nail the kingdom was lost" thinking.  People obsessed with details can come off looking like jerks to the rest of the unobsessed world.

 

Given that, Sean has to be sick about some of the losses the Bills took this last season starting with the blocked punt vs, the Steelers and ending with the 13 second meltdown.  He has to see it as a stain to his record and the way he sees as his way of leading the team.  I bet he will make some changes to the way he does his business as a result.