Did McDermott all but admit there will be coaching changes on the offensive side of the ball?

[ndirish1978]

Bobby Johnson needs to be gone. All the guards need to be cut. We need an enormous 1 tech and an actual NFL caliber RB

[NewEra]

On 12/7/2021 at 10:47 AM, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

Nice take 😂 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Trogdor said:

McD wasn't exactly a world beating coordinator either. He was gifted hall of fame talent as a secondary coach, but didn't last when promoted and was fired by Reid. He had 2 good years with the Panthers, but the rest they were towards the bottom of the league in points surrendered. There is serious myth building around him that his teams are disciplined and prepared, but that never actually seems to be the case. 

 

I think this is a point worth examining.  Certainly relative to Wrex Wryan, McDermott brought discipline and stability.

 

But, there's something off there.  His team seems to come into some games totally unprepared (Jags for example) and we don't seem sufficiently agile in making adjustments.    We are 9th in the league at penalties against us with 84 penalties for 716 yds.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Maybe you are right about sequencing of plays but the stats tell a different story.  Allen was 30-51 for 270.  The Bills threw 51 times and with only 15 running plays for their RB’s.  So not sure where you’re getting run-run-pass from, it’s not possible given these splits.  Singletary actually had one of his best performances with 11 carries for 72 yards.  If anything you can make the argument they should have run a few more times. 

 

Correct.  It's simply mathematically impossible to say we played run-run-pass against the Steelers when we passed 51 times and ran 25, of which 9 were Allen (mostly scrambles on intended pass plays.

 

What happened against the Steelers is that Daboll was expecting "Blitzburgh" and decided he'd come out with a spread offense to beat the blitz and attack Pittsburgh's suspect secondary.  We ran 4 or 5 WR almost half the snaps in that game!  Knox only played half the snaps, our fullback and 2nd TE only played 2 snaps, and we didn't try putting in extra OLmen.

 

Instead, Pittburgh brought pressure (successfully) with 3 or 4 guys but used post-snap changes and stunts that would have let us gash them big time were we running - but they had no fear of that.  That left them with 7 or 8 defenders to blanket the field, bracket our guys, and take them away.

 

Switching tactics and running a few more times with an extra blocker might have been helpful.

 

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I don’t think it was a result of a conservative game plan, as much as it was Josh struggling to figure out 2 high shell under significant duress.   This also happened against Jacksonville, and parts of Indianapolis and New England and plagued them all season in the redzone.  

 

Yep

 

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This is is why trying to develop some sort of run game in these situations is not the ridiculous idea some make it out to be

This is the biggest fallacy to develop from the Bills game.  People assume McDermott wants to “ground and pound” and coach defensively and I really don’t think that’s the case.
 

He wants to be able to run the ball when the offense gets good running looks.  That helps create a little more balance which should help our little out a little in the pass game as well.  Also do you notice how bad our line struggles to pick up short yardage for first downs?  That’s the physicality I believe McDermott is talking about.

 

This is exactly correct.  He also doesn't want teams with "meh" front 7 like Jacksonville to be able to dial up exotic pressure packages even "SuperOL" would struggle to adjust and block because they have no concern about being gashed by the run.  Colts didn't leave themselves open like that, but they did utilize post-snap changes which we struggled to adjust for to bring pressure and to slow Josh's reads enough to get home.

 

McDermott sees the field as a defensive coach.  He understands that when a team has a gap in their game - for example the Ravens, who struggle in the passing game - you can dare them to beat you that way and really lock down and smother what they do well, which is run and short passes to the TE. 

 

So he understands how opposing DCs are seeing the Bills - as a spread offense even Jax can shut down, and as a team where running between the tackles is not to be feared and running outside is impossible unless Breida is in there.

[MPT]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:05 PM, Nextmanup said:

I see this a lot all over this board.

 

Why can't he?  All the great QBs do it all by themselves, consistently, game to game, for years.

 

Brady has been doing it for 2 decades.

 

If Josh hits the wide open man, a handful of times last night when it mattered, we easily win the game.

 

 

 

Okay pump the brakes. Brady, the best QB of all time, never won a Super Bowl without a top 5 defense. He has had the best offensive lines a quarterback could ask for. And he's always had a solid running game to keep defenses honest. He didn't take a pay cut all those years out of the goodness of his heart. He knew that better players around him would help him win.

 

Rodgers and Brees are first ballot HOF QBs that have both had multiple losing seasons and have only won one super bowl a piece in almost 20 years of play. 

 

Regardless of the QB, it takes an entire team to win consistently.

 

Josh threw an absolute dime to Diggs in the endzone that hit him right in the arm and was dropped. He threw multiple great passes to Knox that were dropped including one in the endzone. Allen missed the last throw which probably sticks out in your mind more than all his great throws, but he played more than well enough to win this game.

 

Edit: And P.S. Allen did all that in a game in which the conditions were so bad that the opposing team didn't even trust their QB to attempt more than 3 passes and while he was under duress almost every play behind a terrible offensive line.

Edited December 8, 2021 by MPT

[dave mcbride]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Correct.  It's simply mathematically impossible to say we played run-run-pass against the Steelers when we passed 51 times and ran 25, of which 9 were Allen (mostly scrambles on intended pass plays.

 

What happened against the Steelers is that Daboll was expecting "Blitzburgh" and decided he'd come out with a spread offense to beat the blitz and attack Pittsburgh's suspect secondary.  We ran 4 or 5 WR almost half the snaps in that game!  Knox only played half the snaps, our fullback and 2nd TE only played 2 snaps, and we didn't try putting in extra OLmen.

 

Instead, Pittburgh brought pressure (successfully) with 3 or 4 guys but used post-snap changes and stunts that would have let us gash them big time were we running - but they had no fear of that.  That left them with 7 or 8 defenders to blanket the field, bracket our guys, and take them away.

 

Switching tactics and running a few more times with an extra blocker might have been helpful.

 

 

Yep

 

 

This is exactly correct.  He also doesn't want teams with "meh" front 7 like Jacksonville to be able to dial up exotic pressure packages even "SuperOL" would struggle to adjust and block because they have no concern about being gashed by the run.  Colts didn't leave themselves open like that, but they did utilize post-snap changes which we struggled to adjust for to bring pressure and to slow Josh's reads enough to get home.

 

McDermott sees the field as a defensive coach.  He understands that when a team has a gap in their game - for example the Ravens, who struggle in the passing game - you can dare them to beat you that way and really lock down and smother what they do well, which is run and short passes to the TE. 

 

So he understands how opposing DCs are seeing the Bills - as a spread offense even Jax can shut down, and as a team where running between the tackles is not to be feared and running outside is impossible unless Breida is in there.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/sean-mcdermott-gives-roundabout-answer-about-brian-dabolls-performance?ls=pftvod
 

Simms makes the important point here (3+ minutes in) that the Bills’ offensive talent is wildly overrated. He says that they have two blue chip players (Allen and Diggs) and a bunch of JAGs.

[Thurman#1]

On 12/8/2021 at 3:44 AM, BuffaloBill said:

“We’re gonna try our darndest to fix it. It’s tough. I’m not gonna sit up here and lie to you guys. To fix that part of your game this time of year is tough,” he said. “That’s why we try like heck to do it in training camp. That’s where you develop the toughness of the football team. That’s why we run the football in training camp.”

 

Sean McDermott quoted by Matt Parrino 

 

Clearly, he is not very happy with what Bobby Johnson and Brian Dabol have done with the run game.  To me this is an astounding statement from a head coach who was supposedly going to make a Super Bowl appearance this year.  

 

It would seem almost obvious that Johnson is as good as gone at the end of the year and Dabol may also be very much on the hot seat. What a change given Dabol was to be heading towards a HC’ing job at the end of this season. 

 

 

Yeah, I think that's a case of confirmation bias on your part.

 

You want change, so you see this very bland statement as proof you're right, when there's zero reason really to think it means what you want it to mean.

 

Not that I'm saying there won't be change. Nor am I saying these exact changes won't happen. Just that what he said there doesn't even mildly indicate it.

 

It certainly says there'll be change. It's extremely unclear that the change will be the ones you're reading this as a signal for.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

30 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/sean-mcdermott-gives-roundabout-answer-about-brian-dabolls-performance?ls=pftvod
 

Simms makes the important point here (3+ minutes in) that the Bills’ offensive talent is wildly overrated. He says that they have two blue chip players (Allen and Diggs) and a bunch of JAGs.

 

 

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep…. That’s what happens when your regime constantly invests in the defense with high round picks…. 

 

 

The draft is one way to bring in guys. There actually are other ways. They didn't draft Diggs. Yet he appeared here ... somehow, magically. It's almost as if trades and free agency were ways to acquire people outside the draft.

 

And building a championship team by getting an excellent defense and a great QB and then hoping the QB makes those around him better is a fairly common, very legitimate way of doing it.

[Einstein]

On 12/7/2021 at 1:44 PM, BuffaloBill said:

“We’re gonna try our darndest to fix it. It’s tough. I’m not gonna sit up here and lie to you guys. To fix that part of your game this time of year is tough,” he said. “That’s why we try like heck to do it in training camp. That’s where you develop the toughness of the football team. That’s why we run the football in training camp.”

 

Sean McDermott quoted by Matt Parrino 

 

Clearly, he is not very happy with what Bobby Johnson and Brian Dabol have done with the run game.  To me this is an astounding statement from a head coach who was supposedly going to make a Super Bowl appearance this year.  

 

It would seem almost obvious that Johnson is as good as gone at the end of the year and Dabol may also be very much on the hot seat. What a change given Dabol was to be heading towards a HC’ing job at the end of this season. 

 

I don’t know how anyone can look at what the RB’s are doing and then blame it on the toughness of the O-Line.

 

 

 

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

We cut a starting G for a potential playoff team, traded an All-Pro for a 6th and failed to develop an athletically talented 2nd rounder.  We have also failed to develop a single interior OL in the last 3 years (sorry, Butthead 😄).

 

These mistakes all occurred when the talent was in the building.  Everyone owns this, but Beane put talent in front of Johnson.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by N.Y. Orangeman

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

I don’t know how anyone can look at what the RB’s are doing and then blame it on the toughness of the O-Line.

 

 

 

 

I think this clip is basically right - he should have bounced it out - but it has been pointed out that Judon gained outside leverage on Spencer Brown and simply cut back inside when he saw the direction Moss was headed in. And while it's easy to criticize Moss, Morse is badly beaten there. The idea behind the play was for Morse to actually hold his block, and he completely failed. 

[BuffaloRebound]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/defenses-blunted-superstar-quarterbacks-season-083006493.html

 

Extremely relevant article.  Just feels like Bills organization was/is behind the curve on how NFL defenses have adjusted to the passing game.  And now it looks like it’s too late to do anything substantial enough to address our weak running game.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/sean-mcdermott-gives-roundabout-answer-about-brian-dabolls-performance?ls=pftvod
 

Simms makes the important point here (3+ minutes in) that the Bills’ offensive talent is wildly overrated. He says that they have two blue chip players (Allen and Diggs) and a bunch of JAGs.

 

I have been saying this for nearly 2 years. 

[MPT]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think this clip is basically right - he should have bounced it out - but it has been pointed out that Judon gained outside leverage on Spencer Brown and simply cut back inside when he saw the direction Moss was headed in. And while it's easy to criticize Moss, Morse is badly beaten there. The idea behind the play was for Morse to actually hold his block, and he completely failed. 

 

He might have had a slight outside leverage on Brown but Brown had him blocked up nicely. No way he catches Moss if he goes outside. Morse did completely miss his block but there was a linebacker waiting in that gap even if that DL hadn't made the tackle.

 

I'm usually in the camp that the offensive line is a bigger problem, but on this particular play Moss could have had a touchdown or at least gotten close. Singletary or Breida probably bounce that one outside.

[BuffaloRebound]

6 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

He might have had a slight outside leverage on Brown but Brown had him blocked up nicely. No way he catches Moss if he goes outside. Morse did completely miss his block but there was a linebacker waiting in that gap even if that DL hadn't made the tackle.

 

I'm usually in the camp that the offensive line is a bigger problem, but on this particular play Moss could have had a touchdown or at least gotten close. Singletary or Breida probably bounce that one outside.

Disagree on the Moss run.  Judon tackles Moss for a loss if he bounces it outside.  It’s kind of comparable to saying a WR is open after the man covering him has already reacted to the pass being thrown to somebody else.  A dynamic RB that has speed and power to break an arm tackle might have been able to score if they bounced it outside, but Bills don’t have one of those.  

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

He might have had a slight outside leverage on Brown but Brown had him blocked up nicely. No way he catches Moss if he goes outside. Morse did completely miss his block but there was a linebacker waiting in that gap even if that DL hadn't made the tackle.

 

I'm usually in the camp that the offensive line is a bigger problem, but on this particular play Moss could have had a touchdown or at least gotten close. Singletary or Breida probably bounce that one outside.

I basically agree, although I do think that Judon might have prevented him from getting a TD. That said, he definitely would have gotten at least 3-4 yards.

[dpberr]

The fundamental question is whether Brian Daboll is to the passing game as Greg Roman is to the running game.  

 

Brilliant in one aspect of a strategy, struggles to develop a well-designed comprehensive game plan, and when stressed, doubles down on what got them there.  

 

The Eagles don't have great running backs, an offensive line that is chronically injured and a QB that won't throw for 300 yards, yet they have been able to run the ball with purpose since changing their strategy.  

[Coffeesforclosers]

29 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Disagree on the Moss run.  Judon tackles Moss for a loss if he bounces it outside.  It’s kind of comparable to saying a WR is open after the man covering him has already reacted to the pass being thrown to somebody else.  A dynamic RB that has speed and power to break an arm tackle might have been able to score if they bounced it outside, but Bills don’t have one of those.  

 

Brett Kollman did a great breakdown of how NE stuffed the Rams in the Superbowl that's relevant.  If NE's DL win their blocks quickly enough, they will show a false leverage to the RB.  The RB reads the false leverage of the block and makes a cut to where a hole should open. Instead they end up cutting into the teeth of the defense as the DL sheds their blocks and LBs fill in.  I think that's what Judon was doing, but Moss always, always tries to get north and south ASAP regardless of what's happening.

[hondo in seattle]

On 12/7/2021 at 12:55 PM, Kellyhero68 said:

OLC Bobby Johnson needs to go along with every guard on the team. Sign one or two above average guards and draft at least two more. 

 

I tend to agree.

 

It's hard as a fan to know how good position coaches are.  But our OL was poor last year and more-or-less the same guys are even worse this year.  

 

FWIW, Johnson has coached for 26 years.  Being an OL coach is the most prestigious job he's ever had.  

 

 

[Gordio]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:10 PM, FireChans said:

Baldy just posted some plays on Twitter. The entire OL gets zero push. We lose double teams, LB’s beat down our OG’s, and we don’t move the LoS at all. 
 

Daboll calls HB dives because if we execute, we get 4 and if we don’t, we get 1 or 2. If you start running traps and counters and tosses and other slow developing run plays, we will get -4. I take 2nd and 9 over 2nd and 14 all day every day.

 

Team is fundamentally flawed. There is no one on the OL that should be safe next year. Maybe Spencer Brown.

 

 

This is an excellent point.   It is not Daboll's fault the line can't block worth a sh*t or the rbs have no vision.  If Moss cuts that run to the outside he walks in for the td.  That is on Beane.