Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

So Raytheon isn't a "stock of freedom?'

 

As a guy who used to teach Sidewinder, and surface to air systems that Patriot was based on, I had very frequent dealings with that company as they used to produce the graphics used in my lecture.

 

They build Patriot, Sidewinder and Amraam.

 

Hard to find a company that US air assets would consider more a contributor to our defense and "freedom."

 

 

 

Sorry, I just didn't invest in that company, so what? 

 

Trying to kick up some dirt where's no dirt 

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Lots of expletives on here today . You okay? 

 

LOL 

[sherpa]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Sorry, I just didn't invest in that company, so what? 

 

Trying to kick up some dirt where's no dirt 

 

Nope. Couldn't care less.

A comment that suggests that Raytheon is not a "stock of freedom," your words, is bizarre, and a view absolutely not shared by anybody in a US tacair cockpit or on the ground position defended by Patriot.

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

Nope. Couldn't care less.

A comment that suggests that Raytheon is not a "stock of freedom," your words, is bizarre, and a view absolutely not shared by anybody in a US tacair cockpit or on the ground position defended by Patriot.

 

I believe its a stock of freedom 

Off hand remark

[sherpa]

28 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I believe its a stock of freedom 

Off hand remark

 

Reprieve granted.

No harm.

 

[SoCal Deek]

43 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

LOL 

Time to take a break Tibs. 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Time to take a break Tibs. 

Chill out 

[SoCal Deek]

17 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Chill out 

I’m fine thanks, but I’m not the one on here calling other people POS and giving still others the finger. But maybe you have a different interpretation of ‘chill out’. I know language is fluid these days. 😉

[Tiberius]

38 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m fine thanks, but I’m not the one on here calling other people POS and giving still others the finger. But maybe you have a different interpretation of ‘chill out’. I know language is fluid these days. 😉

I was falsely accused. How am I suppose to react? 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I was falsely accused. How am I suppose to react? 

Just tell the other person that they’re wrong. That’s how we talk to each other in an adult conversation. 

[Tiberius]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Just tell the other person that they’re wrong. That’s how we talk to each other in an adult conversation. 

Well, nah 

[Tommy Callahan]

“Any person capable of angering you becomes your master;
he can anger you only when you permit yourself to be disturbed by him.”

― Epictetus

 

If its me your upset at, I was just busting chops.  

 

 

[Wacka]

All I did was ask if you owned Raytheon stock. All you had to do was say no. End of story.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Wacka

[Joe Ferguson forever]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Relax Tibs

He simply has a different opinion about how we choose to defend freedom. That’s all.

No he’s got a different opinion on which Americans freedom is a priority…we think all freedoms that don’t encroach on others are equal 

Edited May 19, 2023 by redtail hawk

[ALF]

The Biden administration has signaled to European allies that the US would allow them to export F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, sources familiar with the discussions told CNN. Retired US Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton explains the significance of the jets.

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/19/f-16-explainer-colonel-cederic-leighton-ukraine-sot-ovn-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn

[Coffeesforclosers]

32 minutes ago, ALF said:

The Biden administration has signaled to European allies that the US would allow them to export F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, sources familiar with the discussions told CNN. Retired US Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton explains the significance of the jets.

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/19/f-16-explainer-colonel-cederic-leighton-ukraine-sot-ovn-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn

Leaked USAF Documents state that Ukrainian Pilots could trained on the F-16 in as little as 4 months

 

Ukraine sent over two pilots, one qualified on the MiG-29, the other on the SU-27. The timeline comes from evaluations of their performance in simulators.

 

Theses guys were already qualified pilots with a lot of flight time. Not green as grass replacement pilots starting from scratch. It's important to keep that in mind.

 

But it also means that if Ukraine can keep its pilots alive, it's got an idea of how long it takes to transition them over to Western fighters. 

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

No he’s got a different opinion on which Americans freedom is a priority…we think all freedoms that don’t encroach on others are equal 

No idea what any of that means Hawk, but it’s still no excuse for the expletive laced responses. If people can’t stay somewhere in the neighborhood of civility then I’m not sure anyone ever gets their point across or moves the discussion along. 

[Tiberius]

Get 'er done! 

 

 

[JDHillFan]

 But Trump…

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Get 'er done! 

 

 

Are you Ukrainian?

 

Honest question, because I don’t know…

 

I fail to understand how anyone without heritage ties could be this excitable about furthering a proxy war with a nuclear power.

 

Maybe you just really like war and/or really hate territorial expansion, however I’ve really never seen any self reflection or anger towards the US and our constant aggression in the Middle East and/or territorial land disputes happening African nations like Yemen, with American bombs being dropped on civilians by the Saudis. 

[L Ron Burgundy]

47 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Are you Ukrainian?

 

Honest question, because I don’t know…

 

I fail to understand how anyone without heritage ties could be this excitable about furthering a proxy war with a nuclear power.

 

Maybe you just really like war and/or really hate territorial expansion, however I’ve really never seen any self reflection or anger towards the US and our constant aggression in the Middle East and/or territorial land disputes happening African nations like Yemen, with American bombs being dropped on civilians by the Saudis. 

Maybe he's just rooting for the good guys?  Ukraine may be corrupt but they're trying to Westernize (hard to do when big brother interferes with everything).  We just let Russia run through Ukraine they'll target someone else.  Plans already slipped for Moldova and the Baltics (I'm sure the conspiracy theories say it's fake).  

 

Besides it's an amazing story.   A world superpower is getting b slapped by a tiny country because of superior tech and an utterly inept army.

 

 

[Commsvet11]

9 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Maybe he's just rooting for the good guys?  Ukraine may be corrupt but they're trying to Westernize (hard to do when big brother interferes with everything).  We just let Russia run through Ukraine they'll target someone else.  Plans already slipped for Moldova and the Baltics (I'm sure the conspiracy theories say it's fake).  

 

Besides it's an amazing story.   A world superpower is getting b slapped by a tiny country because of superior tech and an utterly inept army.

 

 

Well there it is, Ukraine may be corrupt, but I was told they were the good guys and the US should have never let it happen and it’s an amazing story the little guy with funding and equipment sponsored from the US is winning.

 

 

 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Maybe he's just rooting for the good guys?  Ukraine may be corrupt but they're trying to Westernize (hard to do when big brother interferes with everything).  We just let Russia run through Ukraine they'll target someone else.  Plans already slipped for Moldova and the Baltics (I'm sure the conspiracy theories say it's fake).  

 

Besides it's an amazing story.   A world superpower is getting b slapped by a tiny country because of superior tech and an utterly inept army.

 

 

Im so glad you find this fun and exciting for your personal enjoyment.  Dead bodies pile up but hey… what a story!!!

 

Acting like this is a f’n Marvel movie.  
 

Buddy… I don’t know what to tell you if you still believe Russia is going to plow through Ukraine into NATO countries should we choose to demand a peace agreement. 
 

Thanks for at least admitting what I figured… that y’all are devoid of the horrific reality of war and think this is a movie. 
 

Edited May 19, 2023 by SCBills

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Are you Ukrainian?

 

Honest question, because I don’t know…

 

I fail to understand how anyone without heritage ties could be this excitable about furthering a proxy war with a nuclear power.

 

Maybe you just really like war and/or really hate territorial expansion, however I’ve really never seen any self reflection or anger towards the US and our constant aggression in the Middle East and/or territorial land disputes happening African nations like Yemen, with American bombs being dropped on civilians by the Saudis. 

No, just like a democratic country standing up to an aggressor. And Russia is a common enemy, they attacked us in 2016. 

 

That didn't bother you? 

 

 

42 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Don’t rule out the probability that he is a

dope. 
 

 

.

@SoCal Deek

 

I know that will upset you that people are name calling, so I tagged you. 😉

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im so glad you find this fun and exciting for your personal enjoyment.  Dead bodies pile up but hey… what a story!!!

 

Acting like this is a f’n Marvel movie.  
 

Buddy… I don’t know what to tell you if you still believe Russia is going to plow through Ukraine into NATO countries should we choose to demand a peace agreement. 
 

Thanks for at least admitting what I figured… that y’all are devoid of the horrific reality of war and think this is a movie. 
 

What is your position on this? Just let Putin murder everyone? 

 

You act like YOU are losing because Putin is losing. Why is that? 

[Coffeesforclosers]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im so glad you find this fun and exciting for your personal enjoyment.  Dead bodies pile up but hey… what a story!!!

 

Acting like this is a f’n Marvel movie.  
 

Buddy… I don’t know what to tell you if you still believe Russia is going to plow through Ukraine into NATO countries should we choose to demand a peace agreement. 
 

Thanks for at least admitting what I figured… that y’all are devoid of the horrific reality of war and think this is a movie. 
 

 

Dude, you're lecturing a forum full of Americans about the "horrific realities of war". As if we haven't lived through the Forever Wars, or watched a generation and a half of our friends and family go off to fight for... reasons?

 

So maybe get off your high horse. 

[L Ron Burgundy]

21 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said:

Well there it is, Ukraine may be corrupt, but I was told they were the good guys and the US should have never let it happen and it’s an amazing story the little guy with funding and equipment sponsored from the US is winning.

 

 

 

Nobody told me im able to form my opinions.  I'm well aware if the  situation in Ukraine and have been well before this war.  When one side is democratic and the other authoritarian, not to mention they invaded, well you should be able to tell who the good guys are.  I studied in Eastern europe during the orange revolution.   I've forgotten more about the region in question than you will ever know.  I've also plenty of reasons to dislike Ukrainians yet wish them the best.

 

Yeah I know, Tucker praised Russia so now you pea brains think your opinions are educated.  They aren't.   There's no reason anyone that supports democracy shouldn't root for Ukraine.   

[L Ron Burgundy]

42 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im so glad you find this fun and exciting for your personal enjoyment.  Dead bodies pile up but hey… what a story!!!

 

Acting like this is a f’n Marvel movie.  
 

Buddy… I don’t know what to tell you if you still believe Russia is going to plow through Ukraine into NATO countries should we choose to demand a peace agreement. 
 

Thanks for at least admitting what I figured… that y’all are devoid of the horrific reality of war and think this is a movie. 
 

The lack of reading comprehension is astounding yet not surprising from your posting history.   Saying it's an amazing story in no way advocates what is happening.   Its disgusting.   Which is why us helping is the right thing.  Russia is a f'd up country.   They send their own people on suicide missions without a second thought and encourage war crimes.  

Edited May 19, 2023 by L Ron Burgundy

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Dude, you're lecturing a forum full of Americans about the "horrific realities of war". As if we haven't lived through the Forever Wars, or watched a generation and a half of our friends and family go off to fight for... reasons?

 

So maybe get off your high horse. 

What’s the end game?

[Commsvet11]

4 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

Nobody told me im able to form my opinions.  I'm well aware if the  situation in Ukraine and have been well before this war.  When one side is democratic and the other authoritarian, not to mention they invaded, well you should be able to tell who the good guys are.  I studied in Eastern europe during the orange revolution.   I've forgotten more about the region in question than you will ever know.  I've also plenty of reasons to dislike Ukrainians yet wish them the best.

 

Yeah I know, Tucker praised Russia so now you pea brains think your opinions are educated.  They aren't.   There's no reason anyone that supports democracy shouldn't root for Ukraine.   

You studied Eastern Europe during the orange revolution? I’m supposed to be impressed by that? 
 

You determined a good guy because one side is democratic and the other is authoritarian however you yourself have admitted there has been corruption on the democratic. One country invading another doesn’t make any be country the bad guys either because how many times has the US  invaded other countries?

 

You can cling to the little thread of hope that this conflict is all about democracy but it’s naive at best. 

[Tiberius]

Just now, Commsvet11 said:

You studied Eastern Europe during the orange revolution? I’m supposed to be impressed by that? 
 

You determined a good guy because one side is democratic and the other is authoritarian however you yourself have admitted there has been corruption on the democratic. One country invading another doesn’t make any be country the bad guys either because how many times has the US  invaded other countries?

 

You can cling to the little thread of hope that this conflict is all about democracy but it’s naive at best. 

So you think we should just let Putin murder, burn and ethnically cleanse this nation? 

[Commsvet11]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

So you think we should just let Putin murder, burn and ethnically cleanse this nation? 

There is other solutions than going to war, because honestly this war hasn’t exactly moved the needle on to your concerns there now has it Tibs? 
 

 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said:

There is other solutions than going to war, because honestly this war hasn’t exactly moved the needle on to your concerns there now has it Tibs? 
 

 

So you are excusing Putin from doing the war and blaming our country? That's what you are doing 

[cle23]

16 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said:

You studied Eastern Europe during the orange revolution? I’m supposed to be impressed by that? 
 

You determined a good guy because one side is democratic and the other is authoritarian however you yourself have admitted there has been corruption on the democratic. One country invading another doesn’t make any be country the bad guys either because how many times has the US  invaded other countries?

 

You can cling to the little thread of hope that this conflict is all about democracy but it’s naive at best. 

 

Invasion absolutely can make people the "bad guys," the US included. Russia is the bad guy here.  The US is the bad guy in Iraq for example. The invader in the situation isn't ALWAYS the bad guy,  but they usually are.  

[Commsvet11]

Just now, Tiberius said:

So you are excusing Putin from doing the war and blaming our country? That's what you are doing 

Maybe I just don’t believe in sending financial aid to the enemy of my enemy maybe I’m tired of the US being the world police 

[Commsvet11]

1 minute ago, cle23 said:

 

Invasion absolutely can make people the "bad guys," the US included. Russia is the bad guy here.  The US is the bad guy in Iraq for example. The invader in the situation isn't ALWAYS the bad guy,  but they usually are.  

You can recognize the point of view that the US could be seen as the bad guy in the Iraq invasion, so would you say the US was the bad guys throughout the whole war?  

[SCBills]

16 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said:

There is other solutions than going to war, because honestly this war hasn’t exactly moved the needle on to your concerns there now has it Tibs? 
 

 

We could force a peace deal, but politicians with Tibs mindset are sacrificing Ukrainian (and Russian) lives for a proxy war against Russia. 
 

Unironically, they are responsible for the continued bloodshed. 

[L Ron Burgundy]

5 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said:

You studied Eastern Europe during the orange revolution? I’m supposed to be impressed by that? 
 

You determined a good guy because one side is democratic and the other is authoritarian however you yourself have admitted there has been corruption on the democratic. One country invading another doesn’t make any be country the bad guys either because how many times has the US  invaded other countries?

 

You can cling to the little thread of hope that this conflict is all about democracy but it’s naive at best. 

I didn't say it's all about democracy.   Do you comprehend why corruption is so prevalent there and really most of eastern europe?  Did Tucker get into that much detail when he was giving you your new opinions?  I'm guessing he didn't.  He just riled you up with a few simple mostly meaningless sentences.  Pretty easy to do I guess.

 

 

[Commsvet11]

1 minute ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

I didn't say it's all about democracy.   Do you comprehend why corruption is so prevalent there and really most of eastern europe?  Did Tucker get into that much detail when he was giving you your new opinions?  I'm guessing he didn't.  He just riled you up with a few simple mostly meaningless sentences.  Pretty easy to do I guess.

 

 

Why do you assume I watch Tucker? 
Am I not able to form my own opinion of wars having served through one? 
 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

No, just like a democratic country standing up to an aggressor. And Russia is a common enemy, they attacked us in 2016. 

 

That didn't bother you? 

 

 

@SoCal Deek

 

I know that will upset you that people are name calling, so I tagged you. 😉

What is your position on this? Just let Putin murder everyone? 

 

You act like YOU are losing because Putin is losing. Why is that? 

It does upset me, a tad...but ‘dope’ isn’t anywhere close to ‘POS’ in anyone’s universe. In fact, it might even be considered as nothing more than sarcasm. 

[L Ron Burgundy]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We could force a peace deal, but politicians with Tibs mindset are sacrificing Ukrainian (and Russian) lives for a proxy war against Russia. 
 

Unironically, they are responsible for the continued bloodshed. 

How could you possibly know that?  The only way Russia would agree is if they keep land.  Maybe that really is a non starter for Ukraine as they've said throughout.  If you're paying attention you see Ukraine fighting for every inch of land in Bakhmut which has little value.  

 

Let's consider it this way, if some country took Florida would you be for just letting them have it and backing down?  Maybe during the revolutionary War we should have just backed down because we were up against a superior force right?  I thought the right was all about patriotism.   You sure don't understand it elsewhere. 

[SoCal Deek]

Have any of you watched any episodes of The Diplomat on Netflix? I’m guessing it gives a pretty good idea of tangled web these so-called world leaders play while real people are dying and/or fleeing their homeland.