Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Roundybout]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:41 AM, SoCal Deek said:

And then….poof….Crimea became part of Russia, while Barry stood by and did nothing. Funny how that worked out. 

Obama’s foreign policy of “line in the sand” was terrible. Should have helped then. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Obama’s foreign policy of “line in the sand” was terrible. Should have helped then. 

Obamas foreign policy/legacy is illegal drone wars and the thousands killed by them.

 

 

[T&C]

What's another 400 million.. hey.

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/politics/2023/03/03/u-s--to-send-more-ammo--folding-armored-bridges-to-ukraine

[B-Man]

1 hour ago, T&C said:

What's another 400 million.. hey.

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/politics/2023/03/03/u-s--to-send-more-ammo--folding-armored-bridges-to-ukraine

 

 

Karine Jean-Pierre happy to announce 33rd ‘security assistance package’ for Ukraine

 

 

Americans are seeing higher utility bills, inflation continues to hit hard when it comes to groceries and other necessities, gas prices are still high and US bank deposits were down in 2022 for the first time in 74 years.

 

But rest easy, because White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre had an announcement that might help ease the economic pain:

 

 

From the State Department:

Pursuant to a delegation of authority from President Biden, I am authorizing our 33rd drawdown of U.S. arms and equipment for Ukraine since August 2021, valued at $400 million. This military assistance package includes more ammunition for U.S.-provided HIMARS and howitzers, which Ukraine is using so effectively to defend itself, as well as ammunition for Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridges, demolitions munitions and equipment, and other maintenance, training, and support.

 

Will that also include more money to cover retirement pensions in Ukraine while many Americans are having to dip into their 401Ks just to get by?

 

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2023/03/03/karine-jean-pierre-happy-to-announce-33rd-security-assistance-package-for-ukraine/

 

https://www.state.gov/additional-u-s-military-assistance-for-ukraine/

 

 

.

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Chris farley said:

Obamas foreign policy/legacy is illegal drone wars and the thousands killed by them.

 

Ironic and counterintuitive, if you kill enough people you can win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Edited March 3, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Roundybout]

3 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Karine Jean-Pierre happy to announce 33rd ‘security assistance package’ for Ukraine

 

 

Americans are seeing higher utility bills, inflation continues to hit hard when it comes to groceries and other necessities, gas prices are still high and US bank deposits were down in 2022 for the first time in 74 years.

 

But rest easy, because White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre had an announcement that might help ease the economic pain:

 

 

From the State Department:

Pursuant to a delegation of authority from President Biden, I am authorizing our 33rd drawdown of U.S. arms and equipment for Ukraine since August 2021, valued at $400 million. This military assistance package includes more ammunition for U.S.-provided HIMARS and howitzers, which Ukraine is using so effectively to defend itself, as well as ammunition for Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, Armored Vehicle Launched Bridges, demolitions munitions and equipment, and other maintenance, training, and support.

 

Will that also include more money to cover retirement pensions in Ukraine while many Americans are having to dip into their 401Ks just to get by?

 

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2023/03/03/karine-jean-pierre-happy-to-announce-33rd-security-assistance-package-for-ukraine/

 

https://www.state.gov/additional-u-s-military-assistance-for-ukraine/

 

 

.

 

How would money from the military budget help inflation? Or, could this just be another GOP temper tantrum?

[sherpa]

31 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

How would money from the military budget help inflation? Or, could this just be another GOP temper tantrum?

 

I'm not sure I understand he question, but demand is demand.

 

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about military expenditures, but we are way beyond committing existing, paid for munitions, and what we are providing the Ukraine is going to be replaced at higher cost, thus increasing demand. 

 

Given that the US operates at a huge deficit, this money is borrowed, increasing the demand for capital, and directly inflationary.

Edited March 4, 2023 by sherpa

[Motorin']

On 3/2/2023 at 8:40 AM, SCBills said:

It was verified to be on that Ukrainian govt linked website. 
 

I’ll counter you with this …

 

What media is going to report that?  Western media?   They can’t even tell us the truth about the complexities of Crimea or the Donbas.. Zelenskyy targeting his political opponents .. The actual presence of Nazi’s in different govt linked battalions .. The corruption in that country. 
 

None of that absolves Russia from a full scale invasion, but actual criticisms of Ukraine are suppressed and we are given pro-Ukraine propaganda nonstop. 
 

Yet you apparently need CNN to verify so you don’t need to do any research yourself?  Just let them tell you what you want to hear, right?

 

There's a Ukrainian gov website that publishes a state sanctioned hit list? 

[Tiberius]

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Can we please stop the BS about this war being fake?  I just met a guy who presented a Rotary program after driving and delivering an ambulance to Ukraine.  So far we've delivered 3 and a 4th is on its way.  An ambulance lasts about 3 months before it's destroyed by the Russians there.  The pics he showed were heartbreaking.  Don't know his political affiliation but he didn't strike me as a liberal.

[yall]

20 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

Can we please stop the BS about this war being fake?  I just met a guy who presented a Rotary program after driving and delivering an ambulance to Ukraine.  So far we've delivered 3 and a 4th is on its way.  An ambulance lasts about 3 months before it's destroyed by the Russians there.  The pics he showed were heartbreaking.  Don't know his political affiliation but he didn't strike me as a liberal.

 

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

 

Jean-Paul Sartre

 

These are the type of people you're dealing with when it comes to the denial nonsense. They are not engaged in good faith dialogue and will retreat behind some guise of "only joking" or name calling when you point it out. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by yall

[Joe Ferguson forever]

36 minutes ago, yall said:

 

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

 

Jean-Paul Sartre

 

These are the type of people you're dealing with when it comes to the denial nonsense. They are not engaged in good faith dialogue and will retreat behind some guise of "only joking" or name calling when you point it out. 

therefore, we can ignore comments from those cranks and propagandists with obvious malignant intent who deny the reality of this terrible war.

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

Can we please stop the BS about this war being fake?  I just met a guy who presented a Rotary program after driving and delivering an ambulance to Ukraine.  So far we've delivered 3 and a 4th is on its way.  An ambulance lasts about 3 months before it's destroyed by the Russians there.  The pics he showed were heartbreaking.  Don't know his political affiliation but he didn't strike me as a liberal.

 

Twitterbrain is real.

 

Were I Russia, I'd want to stop this war as quickly as possible. Usually when global diplomats are laughing in the face of your foreign minister...in public...it means you've lost respect. Certainly nobody laughed at Russia before this war started.  But they do now.  Even Colin Powell's bogus bull#### on Iraq and WMDs was received with more dignity that Lavrov's moralizing talking points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

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[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

.

And @B-Mancheers them on…

[Coffeesforclosers]

41 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

And @B-Mancheers them on…

 

The video starts with the line "It's day 373 of Vladimir Putin's 10 Day Special Military Operation..." and moves on in the same spirit. Sky's not exactly being sympathetic to Putin. 

 

The battles for Bakhmut are winding down, Russia's going to take the city as expected. Nobody knows why they want it so badly but hey, they're getting it so bully for them? 

[B-Man]

8 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

The video starts with the line "It's day 373 of Vladimir Putin's 10 Day Special Military Operation..." and moves on in the same spirit. Sky's not exactly being sympathetic to Putin. 

 

The battles for Bakhmut are winding down, Russia's going to take the city as expected. Nobody knows why they want it so badly but hey, they're getting it so bully for them? 

 

 

You are correct.

 

My red-tailed shadow likes to respond without thinking.

 

 

 

Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. for training assessment on attack aircraft, including F-16s

Their arrival marks the first time Ukrainian pilots have traveled to the U.S. to have their skills evaluated by American military trainers.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/two-ukrainian-pilots-are-us-training-assessment-attack-aircrafts-f-16s-rcna73426

[BillStime]

15 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. for training assessment on attack aircraft, including F-16s

You seem upset 

[Roundybout]

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

 

Can't get me enuf sartre...

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

 

Jean-Paul Sartre

 

[aristocrat]

19 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

Can't get me enuf sartre...

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

 

Jean-Paul Sartre

 

that’s rich coming from someone who supports creating fake nazi propaganda that undermines Jewish people who actually are being attacked

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

Jewish people who actually are being attacked

And who is doing the attacking?

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

And who is doing the attacking?

https://nypost.com/2023/03/03/saadah-masoud-sentenced-to-prison-for-3-attacks-on-nyc-jews/amp/

[Joe Ferguson forever]

52 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

https://nypost.com/2023/03/03/saadah-masoud-sentenced-to-prison-for-3-attacks-on-nyc-jews/amp/

centuries of hatred. dating from Hagar and Ishmael.  The Nazis are pretty new

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

centuries of hatred. dating from Hagar and Ishmael.  The Nazis are pretty new

Especially the ones that are made up in the minds of irrational people imagining they are recruiting hikers 

[Tiberius]

 

[ALF]

Ukraine war: Russia's Wagner boss suggests 'betrayal' in Bakhmut battle

The head of Russia's Wagner private army has said it is not getting the ammunition it needs from Moscow, as it seeks to gain control of Bakhmut.

 

Russian troops - from Wagner and regular Russian forces - are trying to seize the eastern city from Ukraine.

But Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin has complained of a lack of ammunition, saying it could be "ordinary bureaucracy or a betrayal".

 

Relations between Wagner and Moscow seem increasingly tense.

The Wagner group has tens of thousands of troops in Ukraine - some recruited directly from Russian prisons - and has become a key part of Moscow's invasion.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64859780

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Ukraine war: Russia's Wagner boss suggests 'betrayal' in Bakhmut battle

The head of Russia's Wagner private army has said it is not getting the ammunition it needs from Moscow, as it seeks to gain control of Bakhmut.

 

Russian troops - from Wagner and regular Russian forces - are trying to seize the eastern city from Ukraine.

But Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin has complained of a lack of ammunition, saying it could be "ordinary bureaucracy or a betrayal".

 

Relations between Wagner and Moscow seem increasingly tense.

The Wagner group has tens of thousands of troops in Ukraine - some recruited directly from Russian prisons - and has become a key part of Moscow's invasion.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64859780

Now that's a damn shame 

[Niagara Bill]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:19 PM, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Twitterbrain is real.

 

Were I Russia, I'd want to stop this war as quickly as possible. Usually when global diplomats are laughing in the face of your foreign minister...in public...it means you've lost respect. Certainly nobody laughed at Russia before this war started.  But they do now.  Even Colin Powell's bogus bull#### on Iraq and WMDs was received with more dignity that Lavrov's moralizing talking points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But Powell is a close second.

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

But Powell is a close second.

 

Colin Powell...I wonder how history would have changed had Colin Powell run for President in 1996 instead of Bob Dole.

 

Anyyyyyway... 

[B-Man]

 

 

Psychopath.

 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Psychopath.

 

 

 

Confirmation from some war advocates by saying the quiet part out loud that the rallying cry of supporting democracy and territorial sovereignty from the guys that have violated the territorial sovereignty of more nations than anyone else.  But always for a good cause.  That disguise is off the real motive.  Which is to supply money and weapons in order to weaken Russia's war capabilities at the expense of Ukrainian lives.  Who could have guessed?  

 

So how much of that $100 Billion went into the bank accounts of leadership in for the price of selling out their own people to do Washington's dirty work?  Hell or high water the US government is going to fight tooth and nail in order to stop us from finding out.

[Tiberius]

Murder. The video is awful 

 

 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

In what may be the biggest news regarding the conflict in Ukraine since it began, The New York Times is now reporting that U.S. officials believe a pro-Ukrainian group blew up the Nordstream 2 pipeline.

 

 

So it wasn't Biden then? 

[LDD]

20 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Confirmation from some war advocates by saying the quiet part out loud that the rallying cry of supporting democracy and territorial sovereignty from the guys that have violated the territorial sovereignty of more nations than anyone else.  But always for a good cause.  That disguise is off the real motive.  Which is to supply money and weapons in order to weaken Russia's war capabilities at the expense of Ukrainian lives.  Who could have guessed?  

 

So how much of that $100 Billion went into the bank accounts of leadership in for the price of selling out their own people to do Washington's dirty work?  Hell or high water the US government is going to fight tooth and nail in order to stop us from finding out.

Or, the Ukranians are choosing to fight an aggressor who has invaded their country and has directly targeted civilians, civilian infrastructure and committed numerous war crimes??  Mebbe...

 

[LDD]

50 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So it wasn't Biden then? 

Oh, we definitely did it although Old Joe doesn't know nuthin...not unless he is on a SEAL team or some secret US Navy deep ocean warfare secret squirrel nut unit.   Biden's not in control though,  the deep state is...and remember,  he is too demented to be able to cognitively recognize anything that is happening or even what he is doing.   So, the shot was called by the nemesis of Gen Flynn, his old bunkmate from back in his enlisted days who went the Navy route, wears a patch,  and is still bothered by a scar from the same bar fight which drove him and Flynn onto separate paths. (He rubs it every time he thinks of Flynn) He became the deepest, darkest deep stater, while Flynn became the humble leader of Qanon in a search for truth and light in a DEEP, DARK state.  That's who did it, that guy did it...   

 

Did I do this right?? Asking for a friend.   

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

In what may be the biggest news regarding the conflict in Ukraine since it began, The New York Times is now reporting that U.S. officials believe a pro-Ukrainian group blew up the Nordstream 2 pipeline.

 

 

This intelligence community story sounds like the plot line of an episode of The Blacklist.  It refutes the original contention the Russians did it, refutes Hersch's investigative piece which implicates the US planning and execution and pins the deed on some unknown group of Ukrainian and Russian dissidents.  An unnamed, and somehow unknown until now group that has the capacity and resources to plant and detonate 1,000 lbs of explosives requiring a difficult dive while going completely undetected, until now.  All performed undetected and effectively without detection in an area under extremely high levels of surveillance given the potential for hostilities.   Suddenly, US intelligence has found the culprit while exonerating itself and all its allies.  Talk about luck and coincidence!  I mean, at least in the past these agencies had the expertise to produce propaganda pieces which had a high level of credence while weaving some known facts into the story but this one is a whopper of a story that I find preposterous.  What's next?  The agencies are going to conclude the Capitol video provided to Carlson is fabricated and all manufactured by the Russians which hacked the Capitol systems and replaced the original video log?  Wait for that one!   

[B-Man]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

This intelligence community story sounds like the plot line of an episode of The Blacklist.  It refutes the original contention the Russians did it, refutes Hersch's investigative piece which implicates the US planning and execution and pins the deed on some unknown group of Ukrainian and Russian dissidents.  An unnamed, and somehow unknown until now group that has the capacity and resources to plant and detonate 1,000 lbs of explosives requiring a difficult dive while going completely undetected, until now.  All performed undetected and effectively without detection in an area under extremely high levels of surveillance given the potential for hostilities.   Suddenly, US intelligence has found the culprit while exonerating itself and all its allies.  Talk about luck and coincidence!  I mean, at least in the past these agencies had the expertise to produce propaganda pieces which had a high level of credence while weaving some known facts into the story but this one is a whopper of a story that I find preposterous.  What's next?  The agencies are going to conclude the Capitol video provided to Carlson is fabricated and all manufactured by the Russians which hacked the Capitol systems and replaced the original video log?  Wait for that one!   

 

 

It was the U.S.

 

This tact is just part of the "proxy war"

 

P.S.  I love The Blacklist.