Tiberius Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 That's right, gonna need more for peace. Those against this should be told the money is to kill dark skinned people, them the cup would overflow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 45 minutes ago, B-Man said: . Damn, got none of them, and Putins army is still in ruins. Nice job, Joe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 54 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Damn, got none of them, and Putins army is still in ruins. Nice job, Joe! I'm confused. If Putin's army is in ruins then why the need for Zelensky to come begging for more funds than the $45B on the table along with other more advanced weapons systems? As you consistently describe the situation, the Ukrainian armed forces are clearly winning the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm confused. If Putin's army is in ruins then why the need for Zelensky to come begging for more funds than the $45B on the table along with other more advanced weapons systems? As you consistently describe the situation, the Ukrainian armed forces are clearly winning the war. You'd like to cut them off, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 Wonder if Putin is watching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm confused. If Putin's army is in ruins then why the need for Zelensky to come begging for more funds than the $45B on the table along with other more advanced weapons systems? As you consistently describe the situation, the Ukrainian armed forces are clearly winning the war. Currently winning the war does not mean they have already won the war. Ukraine is winning right now, but they cannot win it with the weapons they have on hand. The nature of war is that ammunition gets used and weapons systems break or are destroyed. Russia has more troops and (probably?) still more arms than Ukraine, but Ukraine has the quality and home turf advantages. If the supply of advanced weapons and ammo does not continue to meet their needs, Russia will be able to turn the course of the war in their favor. Spending about 6% of the defense budget and less than 1% of the overall budget to destroy the Russian war machine without risking US soldiers, support democracy, drive a wedge between China and Russia, make China think twice about invading Taiwan, and strengthen alliances seems like the deal of a century to me. If we're concerned about the cost, maybe we can cut back on some corporate welfare to defray the costs. Edited December 21, 2022 by ChiGoose 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: That Robert Kennedy bust off Biden's left shoulder looks straight out of The Walking Dead. I wonder if there's one of Jack nearby with one of Marilyn between them. That. would. be. epic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Currently winning the war does not mean they have already won the war. Ukraine is winning right now, but they cannot win it with the weapons they have on hand. The nature of war is that ammunition gets used and weapons systems break or are destroyed. Russia has more troops and (probably?) still more arms than Ukraine, but Ukraine has the quality and home turf advantages. If the supply of advanced weapons and ammo does not continue to meet their needs, Russia will be able to turn the course of the war in their favor. Spending about 6% of the defense budget and less than 1% of the overall budget to destroy the Russian war machine without risking US soldiers, support democracy, drive a wedge between China and Russia, make China think twice about invading Taiwan, and strengthen alliances seems like the deal of a century to me. If we're concerned about the cost, maybe we can cut back on some corporate welfare to defray the costs. 6% for this round maybe. We are sending them money like this practically monthly. And these 6%'s actually add up, did you know that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 1 hour ago, TSOL said: 6% for this round maybe. We are sending them money like this practically monthly. And these 6%'s actually add up, did you know that? The current total amount given since the start of the war is less than 6% of the annual budget. It’s not 6% every time, the number is annualized. Did you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 13 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: The current total amount given since the start of the war is less than 6% of the annual budget. It’s not 6% every time, the number is annualized. Did you know that? It's been more than 6% 68 billion we have sent them, defense budget is roughly 800 billion. What's that? Like 9%? You're downplaying the money like it's no big deal. And your fact was inaccurate so I just wanted to point that out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 🎯 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 The strength and courage of Zelinsky and the Ukrainian people is pretty amazing in the face of daily bombings from Putin. These people have amazing fighting spirit for their freedom. At times I wonder how America would fare if we were in their position. Hopefully we can continue to support their defense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) I keep wondering who is going to operate those Patriot missiles. They are very complicated and require a support staff. I'm not so sure the Ukrainian Army can figure how to use them with Google translate. Edited December 22, 2022 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I keep wondering who is going to operate those Patriot missiles. They are very complicated and require a support staff. I'm not so sure the Ukrainian Army can figure how to use them with Google translate. They are going to be operated by Ukrainian forces, trained by the US in a third country. While Patriot offers a significant upgrade to existing air defense capability, I really wonder about the efficacy of this. First, Patriot is a relatively short range system, a point defense weapon. Second there are not many of them being deployed. Thus, the question is where to put them? Probably to defend against very specific high value targets. Third, what happens if the battery is attacked by scores of drones? Patriot costs about $3 million per missile. The drones Russia is reportedly using cost about $50,000. twenty times less. The obvious strategy would be to saturate the Patriot batteries with drones and either waste the missiles or defeat the drones by other means. On a related note, our NATO allies, noteworthy the Germans, are failing miserably to provide what was promised. They promised Puma tanks, and every single one has failed, so they aren't being sent. Just a mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 5 hours ago, reddogblitz said: I keep wondering who is going to operate those Patriot missiles. They are very complicated and require a support staff. I'm not so sure the Ukrainian Army can figure how to use them with Google translate. My guess is they have been training on them for months 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 More weapons in Ukraine is more suffering for the people in that area. We have active boots training the Ukes. but both the Russians and Ukrainians front lines are full of mercs. Russia is using Wagner. Ukraine has several and volunteers from the west. How much did Ukraine lose in the bankman fiasco? how much of it was our gifts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 51 minutes ago, Chris farley said: More weapons in Ukraine is more suffering for the people in that area. We have active boots training the Ukes. but both the Russians and Ukrainians front lines are full of mercs. Russia is using Wagner. Ukraine has several and volunteers from the west. How much did Ukraine lose in the bankman fiasco? how much of it was our gifts.. I'm glad the vast majority of people that think about this topic know that opinions like this ^ are just trash A people fighting for their freedom is inspiring to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: I'm glad the vast majority of people that think about this topic know that opinions like this ^ are just trash A people fighting for their freedom is inspiring to most. We have drug addicts, mentally ill and homeless people here fighting for their lives. Maybe help them first? 🤷🏻♂️ Edited December 22, 2022 by Chef Jim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 15 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Currently winning the war does not mean they have already won the war. Ukraine is winning right now, but they cannot win it with the weapons they have on hand. The nature of war is that ammunition gets used and weapons systems break or are destroyed. Russia has more troops and (probably?) still more arms than Ukraine, but Ukraine has the quality and home turf advantages. If the supply of advanced weapons and ammo does not continue to meet their needs, Russia will be able to turn the course of the war in their favor. Spending about 6% of the defense budget and less than 1% of the overall budget to destroy the Russian war machine without risking US soldiers, support democracy, drive a wedge between China and Russia, make China think twice about invading Taiwan, and strengthen alliances seems like the deal of a century to me. If we're concerned about the cost, maybe we can cut back on some corporate welfare to defray the costs. Whether Ukraine is "winning" at the moment is a highly subjective assessment. And US funding of the war effort, which I feel is a excessive and could be allocated to more pressing and direct interests, isn't the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is a lack of comprehending and acknowledging Russia's real strategic objectives, either by the administration, the media, or Americans in general. And while I claim no expert status, I believe the idea that Putin is on a mission of territorial conquest to reconstitute the Soviet Union or bring the whole of Ukraine under direct Russian control is to buy into a diversion and perhaps some cheer leading propaganda created by war proponents. Because the ultimate aim of Russia is to fracture continental alliances and drive American interests out of Europe. To that aim the war has been a rousing success for the Russians. All the politicians and the usual suspects are too busy falling into line waving the flag of "supporting democracy" and anyone that can see past their own nose and question or warn of other bigger threats is ostracized. Its the perfect set up for an epic fail of American influence. To combat this threat requires more than sending bombs and weapons to some insignificant stretch of land. At the moment, Europe and the EU are nothing short of a big dumpster fire and it will only get worse. As for driving a wedge between China and Russia to this point that goal a is big fail as they've never been closer if for nothing else but out of necessity. Add Iran to the fold, possibly India, and most of Asia, including it appears Afghanistan, through the Belt and Road initiative, Chinese moves in Africa and South America, recently signed economic and partnership agreements with OPEC and Gulf States with China. I could go on but its clear the idea is to squeeze the US out of the global influence game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I think the biggest problem is a lack of comprehending and acknowledging Russia's real strategic objectives, either by the administration, the media, or Americans in general. And while I claim no expert status, I believe the idea that Putin is on a mission of territorial conquest to reconstitute the Soviet Union or bring the whole of Ukraine under direct Russian control is to buy into a diversion and perhaps some cheer leading propaganda created by war proponents. Because the ultimate aim of Russia is to fracture continental alliances and drive American interests out of Europe. To that aim the war has been a rousing success for the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 The real lesson learned from the war in Ukraine is that the world has become very good at getting into armed conflicts but literally horrible at getting out of them. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The real lesson learned from the war in Ukraine is that the world has become very good at getting into armed conflicts but literally horrible at getting out of them. Sad but true. That lesson was learned long before Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The real lesson learned from the war in Ukraine is that the world has become very good at getting into armed conflicts but literally horrible at getting out of them. Sad but true. Why? Because the war is less than a year old? I mean, this seems to be driving you guys nuts that Russia is getting its ass kicked. You know Putin backed Trump, is that what this is all about? Doesn't seem a a hard call, people fighting for freedom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: That lesson was learned long before Ukraine. Apparently…not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Absolutely disgusting symbolism. Yeah, yeah I know I'm a Putin supporter! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Absolutely disgusting symbolism. Yeah, yeah I know I'm a Putin supporter! Appalling to who? Just a bunch of cry babies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 59 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I'm glad the vast majority of people that think about this topic know that opinions like this ^ are just trash A people fighting for their freedom is inspiring to most. spoken by someone not in a war zone. simple fact. More weapons in that theatre results in more pain, suffering and death for the people in those areas. Did I miss where congress declared war? or is biden using them post 9/11 war powers the left claimed the right would abuse to start proxi wars for the MIC? 17 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Currently winning the war does not mean they have already won the war. Ukraine is winning right now, but they cannot win it with the weapons they have on hand. The nature of war is that ammunition gets used and weapons systems break or are destroyed. Russia has more troops and (probably?) still more arms than Ukraine, but Ukraine has the quality and home turf advantages. If the supply of advanced weapons and ammo does not continue to meet their needs, Russia will be able to turn the course of the war in their favor. Spending about 6% of the defense budget and less than 1% of the overall budget to destroy the Russian war machine without risking US soldiers, support democracy, drive a wedge between China and Russia, make China think twice about invading Taiwan, and strengthen alliances seems like the deal of a century to me. If we're concerned about the cost, maybe we can cut back on some corporate welfare to defray the costs. lol. corporate welfare encompasses most of bidens spending bills. If anything, this war has strengthened China/Russia alliances. 15 hours ago, ChiGoose said: The current total amount given since the start of the war is less than 6% of the annual budget. It’s not 6% every time, the number is annualized. Did you know that? 6 percent of our budget is the GDP of ukraine. just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chris farley said: spoken by someone not in a war zone. simple fact. More weapons in that theatre results in more pain, suffering and death for the people in those areas. Did I miss where congress declared war? or is biden using them post 9/11 war powers the left claimed the right would abuse to start proxi wars for the MIC? lol. corporate welfare encompasses most of bidens spending bills. If anything, this war has strengthened China/Russia alliances. Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 13 hours ago, BillStime said: 🎯 what's not shocking is the statist calling anyone that doesn't agree with their corporate/statist narrative, insults. its actually so 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. Boom! And there it is! ALL OF THIS is about some nonsense Hillary made up to placate her wounded ego. Seriously….post of the year! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 Just now, Tiberius said: Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. like I said. spoken like a keyboard warrior sitting on his couch in in a first world that has never seen an actual warzone. BTW. you think this is what o was caught on that hot mike moment telling the Russian leader he would have more time after the election, but then the orange dude won? American and Russian Military industrial complexes love pro proxi war cheerleaders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 33 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Why? Because the war is less than a year old? I mean, this seems to be driving you guys nuts that Russia is getting its ass kicked. You know Putin backed Trump, is that what this is all about? Doesn't seem a a hard call, people fighting for freedom Either you are playing dumb, or you are dumb. Frankly, I don't know which is worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 For what it's worth, Biden was a strident advocate for invasion of Iraq in 2003. That is his history, no matter how be bungled the attempt to confuse the issue during the campaign. Still, it is hard to believe that Russia can make it through a second winter next year. They simply cannot handle the economic collapse. Now that Germany has constructed and is operating three LNG terminals, the price of Russian oil is bound to plummet. Very hard to see how the Russians can continue to fund this failed effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 53 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Whether Ukraine is "winning" at the moment is a highly subjective assessment. And US funding of the war effort, which I feel is a excessive and could be allocated to more pressing and direct interests, isn't the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is a lack of comprehending and acknowledging Russia's real strategic objectives, either by the administration, the media, or Americans in general. And while I claim no expert status, I believe the idea that Putin is on a mission of territorial conquest to reconstitute the Soviet Union or bring the whole of Ukraine under direct Russian control is to buy into a diversion and perhaps some cheer leading propaganda created by war proponents. Because the ultimate aim of Russia is to fracture continental alliances and drive American interests out of Europe. To that aim the war has been a rousing success for the Russians. All the politicians and the usual suspects are too busy falling into line waving the flag of "supporting democracy" and anyone that can see past their own nose and question or warn of other bigger threats is ostracized. Its the perfect set up for an epic fail of American influence. To combat this threat requires more than sending bombs and weapons to some insignificant stretch of land. At the moment, Europe and the EU are nothing short of a big dumpster fire and it will only get worse. As for driving a wedge between China and Russia to this point that goal a is big fail as they've never been closer if for nothing else but out of necessity. Add Iran to the fold, possibly India, and most of Asia, including it appears Afghanistan, through the Belt and Road initiative, Chinese moves in Africa and South America, recently signed economic and partnership agreements with OPEC and Gulf States with China. I could go on but its clear the idea is to squeeze the US out of the global influence game. yeck yeah. I have alse been watching the new 24 season three on prime. you pretty much just perfectly explained the script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Apparently…not. Of course we learned the lesson. You learned A2+B2=C2 decades ago. But have you used it lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Chris farley said: what's not shocking is the statist calling anyone that doesn't agree with their corporate/statist narrative, insults. its actually so 2016. Oh - hit a nerve eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Boom! And there it is! ALL OF THIS is about some nonsense Hillary made up to placate her wounded ego. Seriously….post of the year! LOL You really are losing it. Losing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 1 minute ago, sherpa said: For what it's worth, Biden was a strident advocate for invasion of Iraq in 2003. That is his history, no matter how be bungled the attempt to confuse the issue during the campaign. Still, it is hard to believe that Russia can make it through a second winter next year. They simply cannot handle the economic collapse. Now that Germany has constructed and is operating three LNG terminals, the price of Russian oil is bound to plummet. Very hard to see how the Russians can continue to fund this failed effort. seeing would be believing cause the rubble and Russian economy are not struggling yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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