TheyCallMeAndy Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) I think he can make the team over Vernon Butler, I’m just not sure the team keeps 4 DTs. I think there’s a strong chance they keep 6 DEs. Edited August 9, 2021 by TheyCallMeAndy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 41 minutes ago, Big Turk said: He might be the most athletic player on the entire team. People talk about Allen being a freaky athlete but Zimmer is, I think, even a step above that...for his position he is all-time freaky. Yea he is athletic. That doesn't make you a talented DT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Might Rather Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: In case hard work at OBD isn't enough, he has something else McDermott values: he was a winning wrestler in HS I also a know as a wrestling coach that anyone with a high school wrestling background has a great work ethic and also makes them a better man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Yea he is athletic. That doesn't make you a talented DT. How many plays did Butler make last year you can remember? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 39 minutes ago, Big Turk said: How many plays did Butler make last year you can remember? To be honest maybe 1. I think there was a stop in the goalline sequence against the 49ers but I might have misremembered that. But that isn't really my point. I am not arguing Butler definitely should be on this roster and Zimmer definitely shouldn't. My question is more one of whether Zimmer really belongs on the roster of a team with Superbowl aspirations. You can ask the same about Butler, of course, and 4 DTs are going to make so it least 1 of them will but once you get beyond Ed and Star I don't really have huge belief in any of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: To be honest maybe 1. I think there was a stop in the goalline sequence against the 49ers but I might have misremembered that. But that isn't really my point. I am not arguing Butler definitely should be on this roster and Zimmer definitely shouldn't. My question is more one of whether Zimmer really belongs on the roster of a team with Superbowl aspirations. You can ask the same about Butler, of course, and 4 DTs are going to make so it least 1 of them will but once you get beyond Ed and Star I don't really have huge belief in any of them. Zimmer has a knack for making game changing plays. I want a dude like that on my team. He did it against NE. Almost did it against KC if not for an inch and replay review. You never know when he might make a play like that late in a key playoff game. Edited August 10, 2021 by Big Turk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Zimmer sounds like a future coach or executive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Zimmer has a knack for making game changing plays. I want a dude like that on my team. He did it against NE. Almost did it against KC if not for an inch and replay review. You never know when he might make a play like that late in a key playoff game. He also has a knack for failing to anchor and being moved out of his lane. How many mistakes do I have to accept for the possibility he makes one game changing play? I don't hate Zimmer, but he is a marginal NFL talent. He is a 4th DT somewhere. If that is here so be it but I think we still lack depth at that spot for a team with SB aspirations. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: He also has a knack for failing to anchor and being moved out of his lane. How many mistakes do I have to accept for the possibility he makes one game changing play? I don't hate Zimmer, but he is a marginal NFL talent. He is a 4th DT somewhere. If that is here so be it but I think we still lack depth at that spot for a team with SB aspirations. I will bet he has improved more than Butler has. He might get moved around some but he also ends up in the backfield a lot as well. Edited August 10, 2021 by Big Turk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Big Turk said: I will bet he has improved more than Butler has. He might get moved around some but he also ends up in the backfield a lot as well. Again it isn't a Zimmer v Butler thing for me at all. I am not here defending Butler but some people are over the top on Zimmer. Nice kid, athletically gifted, nice story and he made a game winning play against the Patriots. But there is a reason that age 28 after five years in the league he has never started a game and has been cut by 4 teams - including this one. If he makes it instead of Butler or Phillips I doubt there is any significant drop off in play but I' d say the same the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 3 hours ago, beavis said: That's not an inspiring list. 5 years in, still waiting. A few more years, retirement. By this time, if he was going to do it, he would have done it. And that's in a league and position where you know what you got right out of the gate first look. "I'm sure you're right." ~ Lorax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Again it isn't a Zimmer v Butler thing for me at all. I am not here defending Butler but some people are over the top on Zimmer. Nice kid, athletically gifted, nice story and he made a game winning play against the Patriots. But there is a reason that age 28 after five years in the league he has never started a game and has been cut by 4 teams - including this one. If he makes it instead of Butler or Phillips I doubt there is any significant drop off in play but I' d say the same the other way around. So basically, you're saying there's no significant difference between Butler, Phillips, and Zimmer? And since you're saying Zimmer is a "marginal NFL talent" transitive property would say Butler and Phillips are also "marginal NFL talents"? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here, just trying to connect the dots of the various things you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 It's nice and all, but I think this team is too deep for him to make the team this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: To be honest maybe 1. I think there was a stop in the goalline sequence against the 49ers but I might have misremembered that. But that isn't really my point. I am not arguing Butler definitely should be on this roster and Zimmer definitely shouldn't. My question is more one of whether Zimmer really belongs on the roster of a team with Superbowl aspirations. You can ask the same about Butler, of course, and 4 DTs are going to make so it least 1 of them will but once you get beyond Ed and Star I don't really have huge belief in any of them. I wouldn’t be so quick to assume Harry makes the roster, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: I think he can make the team over Vernon Butler, I’m just not sure the team keeps 4 DTs. I think there’s a strong chance they keep 6 DEs. The team might like to keep 6 DEs, but I think there is zero chance they keep less than 4 DTs. They kept 4 DTs last year with Quinton Jefferson, who was kind of a "tweener", as one of them, and that was regarded as kind of thin on DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said: I wouldn’t be so quick to assume Harry makes the roster, no? I foresee a presser where Beane says cutting Phillips was the hardest decision he made and that some other team is going to get a good football player. Maybe they can flip him for a late round draft pick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 All I know is I wouldn't mind a good steady veteran DT get lost in the numbers somewhere else and we pounce on him. Heck it wouldn't be a bad idea to try and acquire one by some type of trade either. I believe it is definitely a position the Bills are watching closely..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: FWIW, the Bills kept 4 DT and 5 DE last season. One of the DTs was Q Jefferson, who was a bit of a "hybrid", and between injuries and Star opting out, it was a bit of a problem. I won't tell you it's impossible that they keep Zimmer over Butler. But Butler is the biggest guy (height and weight) on a relatively undersized group of DTs, so I think he gets every chance to earn his spot. 1 tech we have Harry and Star, 3-tech we have Oliver and someone else. I think it does play into the equation that both of the DEs we drafted and Efe Obada have spent significant time inside. Butler is big, but I have not been very impressed with him. Harry is pretty much the size of Zimmer, but Zimmer is probably a little more explosive. Want to figure out something tougher than picking DTs? How many DEs can we keep this year? Obada, Hughes, Addison, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, Darryl Johnson. At first blush you'd think Addison/Obada and Johnson. I dunno if it's that cut and dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I'm a Zimmer fan......little higher on him than @GunnerBill......which is probably because I am a bigger fan of big play players on both sides of the ball. But he and Kumerow are entering their age 29 seasons........"prospect" is generally synonymous with "young". If they have breakout seasons it's actually more interesting to me than younger players doing so...........and probably reflects well on the Bills organization for elevating a couple guys who weren't valued at this time last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Convince me why Vernon Butler should make the cut? Is it a cap issue? Because he's the least impressive of all the D linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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