It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[The Frankish Reich]

Enough already.

Guess what? It's constitutional, and it has been for a century:

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/20/federal-judge-upholds-indiana-universitys-covid-19-vaccine-requirement

 

The Indiana University case cites two early 20th century Supreme Court cases upholding vaccine mandates.

 

Vaccine relucatance - or worse, outright anti-vaxxer sentiment - is about to turn an acute, time-limited problem into a never-ending problem. If the percent vaccinated doesn't uptick considerably in the next couple months, look forward to online education, mask mandates, maxed-out emergency rooms, travel bans, all that fun stuff all over again.

 

We've heard you anti-vaxxers. Six months into mass vaccination and your irrational fears have been dispelled. For the obstinate "I won't get vaccinated just because they want us to" -- why they hell did Trump and Melania and family get vaccinated if it's some kind of radical lefty plot?

 

There's still time. Start with simple things: let private businesses require proof of vaccination status. It's their damn business, it's just a continuation of that old "We Reserve Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" sign that I grew up with. If that isn't working, proceed to the next step: vaccine mandates for various higher-risk activities like colleges, in-person high school attendance, air travel. If that isn't working, then go full-on vaccine mandate. 

 

When did we get to be a country of such whiners? It's there, it's free (at least to you, the recipient), it's working, it's the way out of this mess. Do. It. Now.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

So you're going to force people to get the flu shot every year too?  

 

Slippery slope my friend.  Slippery slope. 

[Buffalo716]

17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Enough already.

Guess what? It's constitutional, and it has been for a century:

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/20/federal-judge-upholds-indiana-universitys-covid-19-vaccine-requirement

 

The Indiana University case cites two early 20th century Supreme Court cases upholding vaccine mandates.

 

Vaccine relucatance - or worse, outright anti-vaxxer sentiment - is about to turn an acute, time-limited problem into a never-ending problem. If the percent vaccinated doesn't uptick considerably in the next couple months, look forward to online education, mask mandates, maxed-out emergency rooms, travel bans, all that fun stuff all over again.

 

We've heard you anti-vaxxers. Six months into mass vaccination and your irrational fears have been dispelled. For the obstinate "I won't get vaccinated just because they want us to" -- why they hell did Trump and Melania and family get vaccinated if it's some kind of radical lefty plot?

 

There's still time. Start with simple things: let private businesses require proof of vaccination status. It's their damn business, it's just a continuation of that old "We Reserve Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" sign that I grew up with. If that isn't working, proceed to the next step: vaccine mandates for various higher-risk activities like colleges, in-person high school attendance, air travel. If that isn't working, then go full-on vaccine mandate. 

 

When did we get to be a country of such whiners? It's there, it's free (at least to you, the recipient), it's working, it's the way out of this mess. Do. It. Now.

 

 

45 States allow religious or personal exemption from vaccines 

 

Hardly the mandatory vaccination that you're making it out to be

 

A lot of States you just need to say it's against my belief, you don't need to take it

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

45 States allow religious or personal exemption from vaccines 

 

Hardly the mandatory vaccination that you're making it out to be

 

A lot of States you just need to say it's against my belief, you don't need to take it

True. What I'm saying is that this is stupid policy.

It has encouraged the return of ordinary childhood infectious diseases (mumps, measles). And now it will encourage the spread of COVID-19.

There is an open question regarding true religious exemptions (not the generic "personal conscience" or philosophical exemptions that have swallowed the rule), but these ought to be limited to adherents to a religion with an established history of objections to a vaccine for specific doctrinal reasons. And that's a tiny, tiny percentage of the population.

[By the way, I believe that critical public health considerations should outweigh even legitimate/established religious exceptions to vaccines.]

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

True. What I'm saying is that this is stupid policy.

It has encouraged the return of ordinary childhood infectious diseases (mumps, measles). And now it will encourage the spread of COVID-19.

There is an open question regarding true religious exemptions (not the generic "personal conscience" or philosophical exemptions that have swallowed the rule), but these ought to be limited to adherents to a religion with an established history of objections to a vaccine for specific doctrinal reasons. And that's a tiny, tiny percentage of the population.

[By the way, I believe that critical public health considerations should outweigh even legitimate/established religious exceptions to vaccines.]

And this is not a federal issue. You Will never see mandatory vaccines Nationwide 

 

This is a State issue 

 

And something that only affects half of 1% of a population.. not a strong grounds for mandatory

[unbillievable]

The government won't even make it mandatory for the military.

 

[Big Blitz]

Thread topic tells me I'm correct the media stoking fear and panic is working.  

 

 

 

Mitigation forever.  

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Thread topic tells me I'm correct the media stoking fear and panic is working.  

 

 

 

Mitigation forever.  

No. Get your damn vaccine, just like your hero Trump did.

[Big Blitz]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

No. Get your damn vaccine, just like your hero Trump did.

 

 

I did in March.

 

 

My only fears are being validated by this thread.

 

 

 

 

Mitigation forever bc the public can be played like a fiddle.   

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I did in March.

 

 

My only fears are being validated by this thread.

 

 

 

 

Mitigation forever bc the public can be played like a fiddle.   

I'm glad you did. If by "mitigation" you mean all those old favorite things like social distancing, mask wearing, online school, etc., etc. - the way out of that (whether a particular mitigation strategy is warranted or not) is to get the vast majority vaccinated. Now. There's really no good excuse anymore. We have about 7 months of experience with mass vaccination with virtually nonexistent significant adverse results.

[Big Blitz]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I'm glad you did. If by "mitigation" you mean all those old favorite things like social distancing, mask wearing, online school, etc., etc. - the way out of that 

 

There isn't.  

 

That's been my whole point since Trump's 15 days became indefinitely......with constantly moving goal posts and metrics.  

Edited July 20, 2021 by Big Blitz

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

There isn't.  

 

That's been my whole point since Trump's 15 days became indefinitely 

Well, let's get 90+ percent vaccinated and then we'll see.

 

You are assuming that if infection/hospitalization rates hit their late May levels and stay there we'll still be stuck with pointless mitigation theater. That's not what I saw. I saw masks come off, crowds return to baseball games and concerts, etc., etc. Which is why I'm annoyed as hell at the vaccine refusers for preventing us from making normal life a permanent thing.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, let's get 90+ percent vaccinated and then we'll see.

 

You are assuming that if infection/hospitalization rates hit their late May levels and stay there we'll still be stuck with pointless mitigation theater. That's not what I saw. I saw masks come off, crowds return to baseball games and concerts, etc., etc. Which is why I'm annoyed as hell at the vaccine refusers for preventing us from making normal life a permanent thing.

This country chose a long time ago that a body is sacred. Women can choose to keep or not keep a child

 

Because their body their right 

 

Same thing applies bro. You can't tell somebody what they can or can't do with their body

 

You do realize this is America? 

 

Why are the Cuban people waving American flags in the street right now? Not because it's cute

 

Cuz they know that flag stands for.. freedom

 

So you can have your opinion but that's not how this country works

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

This country chose a long time ago that a body is sacred. Women can choose to keep or not keep a child

 

Because their body their right 

 

Same thing applies bro. You can't tell somebody what they can or can't do with their body

 

You do realize this is America? 

 

Why are the Cuban people waving American flags in the street right now? Not because it's cute

 

Cuz they know that flag stands for.. freedom

 

So you can have your opinion but that's not how this country works

Wrong thread for your pro-abortion rights sentiment.

 

Actually, it has long been understood that public health measures may warrant government mandated vaccinations.

 

As for doing what you want with your body: we also tell you you can't collect certain freely growing lifeforms and ingest them.

 

What were historically known as the state's inherent "police powers" - the state's rights to protect the health, safety, and morals of the populace - covers all of this.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Wrong thread for your pro-abortion rights sentiment.

 

Actually, it has long been understood that public health measures may warrant government mandated vaccinations.

 

As for doing what you want with your body: we also tell you you can't collect certain freely growing lifeforms and ingest them.

 

What were historically known as the state's inherent "police powers" - the state's rights to protect the health, safety, and morals of the populace - covers all of this.

No I already proved you that vaccination is a state issue not a federal issue

 

And there's never been any forced inoculations in this country

 

Even in a state like New York that makes you get all those standard childhood vaccinations.. you can homeschool your kid and never give him those

 

Happens all the time 

 

So no there has never been mandated forced vaccinations across the board in this country

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I cannot understand why anyone who is vaccinated cares if other people aren’t. 
 

Not vaccinated, don’t trust/believe in the extremely new and so far highly effective vaccine, that’s on you.. do whatever you need to protect yourself. 
 

Vaccinated or in the statistically proven un-impacted demographic… live life. 
 

this thing is never going to be eradicated, the common cold I includes 4  different coronaviruses… 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

 

[Big Blitz]

21 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

this thing is never going to be eradicated, the common cold I includes 4  different coronaviruses… 

 

 

 

And all their actions scream "until we eradicate it."  

 

There are people that think we are going to do that.

 

And there are people that know there is zero chance in hell that happens but will gladly take the new powers you surrendered to them.

 

 

Both of those group's are spiraling us to a dark dark place - see above "let's see what happens when we get to 90% vaccinated."

 

Lol when?  How?  Why 90?  Israel is just about there with the adult population.  Are they wide open back to normal?  Nope.  Variants!  Breakthrough infections!

 

It doesn't and won't end until out politicians KNOW we are fed up and done here.  

 

They know the opposite is true and it may be that only 30% of us actually still think we all need masks, they know the rest of us (especially the corporations) are all going to comply.   

 

Human nature is evil.  It's even worse when you have people in charge exploiting self made crisis for political gain.  

 

 

They will never just "give us back our lives" or declare "it's over."  

 

I don't need to wait till "90% vaccinated" (never happening) to know this.

 

And I don't say never happening because I don't want people to.  Its just a FREAKING FACT.  And so long as every "CASE!!" freaks us out, we're f...ed bc we showed them we will gladly comply with anything.

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I cannot understand why anyone who is vaccinated cares if other people aren’t. 
 

Not vaccinated, don’t trust/believe in the extremely new and so far highly effective vaccine, that’s on you.. do whatever you need to protect yourself. 
 

Vaccinated or in the statistically proven un-impacted demographic… live life. 
 

this thing is never going to be eradicated, the common cold I includes 4  different coronaviruses… 

There's a couple concepts here:

 

1. If the vaccine works then an infected person should not be able to infect you.  if anyone is worried the vaccine won't protect them from the Delta variant that's a different problem. 
2. I don't remember anyone ever worrying about somebody having the flu infecting them when they got the flu shot. Or that even being mentioned.  So what's so different about COVID?  People with the same conditions that died of COVID also die from the flu every year.  
3. Everyone does not need to be vaccinated to reach some level of herd immunity.  if you were previously infected and recover you have antibodies that grant immunity.  This is what the vaccine does without the illness part.  So count people with immunity not just vaccinated only.  For some reason this large slice of the population is treated as if it doesn't exist.  And vaccinating people that are already immune just to check off the box on somebody's clip board is a waste of resources and violates the concept of "medical necessity".
4. If you are low risk of getting seriously sick or dying you do not need to be vaccinated.  And this decision should be made by the person, family, and their doctor.  Not the government's one size fits all approach to managing risk.  Everyone's risk is not the same yet policy treats everyone the same.  This is not sensible. This also violates the concept of "medical necessity".   Almost all children under 12 fall into this category.
5. The long term safety and side effect risks of the mRNA vaccines is unknown.  This is part of the area of Gene Therapy.  Its pretty much at the Wright Brothers level of development if you compare it to the aviation industry.  Even the scientist that identified and perfected the mRNA technology suggested caution (although he was blocked from social media for spreading "misinformation".  The guy who invented the stuff!  Makes sense). 
6. I got the vaccine but I certainly don't believe all the "information" disseminated" by the various government bureaucrats.  Keep your head up and don't limit your sources of information on the topic to the "official" story tellers.   
7. Most importantly if you think the government has the right to force people to get vaccinated do you think there are any limits on what the government can force you to do?  What about other vaccines?  What about other medical procedures?  If the government can force you to do anything from a medical perspective perhaps they can decide to kill terminally ill patients upon diagnosis.  No treatment or hospice.  Just a trip to the back of the building for a brief ceremony and then a blindfold and firing squad.  You might say that's absurd and it would never happen and its likely it won't but give them an inch and they take a mile is a fitting concept when dealing with a government that might see no limits to its power and nobody with the ability to stop them.

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

 

5. The long term safety and side effect risks of the mRNA vaccines is unknown.  This is part of the area of Gene Therapy.  Its pretty much at the Wright Brothers level of development if you compare it to the aviation industry.  Even the scientist that identified and perfected the mRNA technology suggested caution (although he was blocked from social media for spreading "misinformation".  The guy who invented the stuff!  Makes sense).

 

 

Is that true?  Banned from social media?

 

 

 

As to the mRNA vaccine, no one knows what they put in their body.  If it's so safe then why the hold up with the FDA?  What are they waiting to see?  

 

I was told by my doctor quote "the risks of Covid are more serious then the vaccine" and I hear this most everywhere.  Makes no sense to me they might as well say "we don't know."

 

They don't say it's safe.  They weigh it against Covid.  All the time.  

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Is that true?  Banned from social media?

 

 

 

As to the mRNA vaccine, no one knows what they put in their body.  If it's so safe then why the hold up with the FDA?  What are they waiting to see?  

 

I was told by my doctor quote "the risks of Covid are more serious then the vaccine" and I hear this most everywhere.  Makes no sense to me they might as well say "we don't know."

 

They don't say it's safe.  They weigh it against Covid.  All the time.  

 

A month ago my friend lost her brother and mother to covid. They both had a good 20 maybe 30 years (covid coma for a month and lack of testing told her she had something else).  Feel for her taking it hard. She got vaccinated afterwards. 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

No I already proved you that vaccination is a state issue not a federal issue

 

And there's never been any forced inoculations in this country

 

Even in a state like New York that makes you get all those standard childhood vaccinations.. you can homeschool your kid and never give him those

 

Happens all the time 

 

So no there has never been mandated forced vaccinations across the board in this country

Yes, it typically has been a state issue. Under the U.S. Constitution, the federal government has only enumerated powers, not the general "police power" that the states have.

 

But ... yes, vaccines have been mandated! 

 

Here's a discussion of a city (cities derive their powers from the states)-mandated smallpox vaccination, upheld by the Supreme Court way, way back in 1905:

 

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/on-this-day-the-supreme-court-rules-on-vaccines-and-public-health

 

There is no constitutional principle that would preclude a state from mandating vaccines. And I'm not aware of anything that would prevent the federal government from mandating them for matters involving interstate commerce (air/train/bus travel, etc.).

 

People are fond of saying "it's my constitutional right." But you've got to find that right in the constitution, either state or federal, whichever applies. You won't find a right against being vaccinated. Oh, you could ask the Supreme Court to find a right out of the general principles enacted in the Bill of Rights much like the Supreme Court found a right to privacy, but then you've kind of got to accept the whole concept of the Court creating rights out of thin air, which is usually what people who don't like the activist courts rail against ....

[Unforgiven]

lol.

While your at it lets have masks for life too, 

people need to take meds and quit cnn

Edited July 20, 2021 by Unforgiven

[The Frankish Reich]

50 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

  

1. Most importantly if you think the government has the right to force people to get vaccinated do you think there are any limits on what the government can force you to do?  What about other vaccines?  What about other medical procedures?  If the government can force you to do anything from a medical perspective perhaps they can decide to kill terminally ill patients upon diagnosis.  No treatment or hospice.  Just a trip to the back of the building for a brief ceremony and then a blindfold and firing squad.  You might say that's absurd and it would never happen and its likely it won't but give them an inch and they take a mile is a fitting concept when dealing with a government that might see no limits to its power and nobody with the ability to stop them.

 

 

 

The idea of the right to some kind of control over one's own body has already been mentioned here.  I pointed out that there is no such overarching "right."

The proper example here isn't state-mandated killing of innocent people. It's the whole "right to die" thing. Assisted suicide has generally been against the law. Some think it shouldn't be, that it should be allowed. But that's what elected governments decide. I don't want a court to "find" a right to assisted suicide. I also don't want courts to "find" (somewhere, hidden in all that rightsy language in the constitution, the Declaration of Independence, etc., etc.) a right to not be vaccinated. 

This U.S. constitution is not some kind of hard libertarian document people make it out to be. It restrains the power of the federal government (and later, through the incorporation doctrine, state governments), but it doesn't create some kind of Ayn Rand fantasyland. The government has the right to make me work one or two days a week for their benefit; that's what taxation does.

[LeviF]

OP, poast proof of 15% body fat and ability to do 12 good form pull-ups before you lecture us on health. 

[Big Gun]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Enough already.

Guess what? It's constitutional, and it has been for a century:

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/20/federal-judge-upholds-indiana-universitys-covid-19-vaccine-requirement

 

The Indiana University case cites two early 20th century Supreme Court cases upholding vaccine mandates.

 

Vaccine relucatance - or worse, outright anti-vaxxer sentiment - is about to turn an acute, time-limited problem into a never-ending problem. If the percent vaccinated doesn't uptick considerably in the next couple months, look forward to online education, mask mandates, maxed-out emergency rooms, travel bans, all that fun stuff all over again.

 

We've heard you anti-vaxxers. Six months into mass vaccination and your irrational fears have been dispelled. For the obstinate "I won't get vaccinated just because they want us to" -- why they hell did Trump and Melania and family get vaccinated if it's some kind of radical lefty plot?

 

There's still time. Start with simple things: let private businesses require proof of vaccination status. It's their damn business, it's just a continuation of that old "We Reserve Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" sign that I grew up with. If that isn't working, proceed to the next step: vaccine mandates for various higher-risk activities like colleges, in-person high school attendance, air travel. If that isn't working, then go full-on vaccine mandate. 

 

When did we get to be a country of such whiners? It's there, it's free (at least to you, the recipient), it's working, it's the way out of this mess. Do. It. Now.

 

 

Nope

[BillStime]

 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

No. Get your damn vaccine, just like your hero Trump did.

What you're saying is that your hero Biden is clueless for not mandating this tomorrow then?  So he has what's approaching 200,000 dead Americans on his hands. 

 

So, why hasn't he already?  He has the White House and both chambers of Congress.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

Awful from her response to lol at that with dead people. Sickening.  Don't want too see anyone hurt.  Always help others out when losing a loved one. Just being a good person to others.

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What you're saying is that your hero Biden is clueless for not mandating this tomorrow then?  So he has what's approaching 200,000 dead Americans on his hands. 

 

So, why hasn't he already?  He has the White House and both chambers of Congress.

I would like to see some kind of vaccine passport immediately. I don't know why Biden hasn't done it. He is certainly not my hero. "Not Trump" =/= My Hero.

17 minutes ago, Big Gun said:

Nope

That's it? "Nope?"

I just gave you the case citation. "Nope" is not considered an argument. A contrary case citation would be an argument. Get to work ...

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I would like to see some kind of vaccine passport immediately. I don't know why Biden hasn't done it. He is certainly not my hero. "Not Trump" =/= My Hero.

 

And how would you plan on using this so called "vaccine passport"?  

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I would like to see some kind of vaccine passport immediately. I don't know why Biden hasn't done it. He is certainly not my hero. "Not Trump" =/= My Hero.

Fair enough, so if I get you correctly, Trump is the villain even though he administrated the invention of and production of the vaccine, but Biden gets a total pass when all he had to do is stick it in your arm?   OK.......

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm just working from your post.

Edited July 20, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Big Blitz]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

A month ago my friend lost her brother and mother to covid. They both had a good 20 maybe 30 years (covid coma for a month and lack of testing told her she had something else).  Feel for her taking it hard. She got vaccinated afterwards. 

 

 

 

 

Dam man that's awful.  

 

Were they not able or willing to get vaccinated?

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I would like to see some kind of vaccine passport immediately. I don't know why Biden hasn't done it. He is certainly not my hero. "Not Trump" =/= My Hero.

Agreed but their masters manipulate these idiots even tho we all had to have immunization cards and records back in the day.

[Big Gun]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I would like to see some kind of vaccine passport immediately. I don't know why Biden hasn't done it. He is certainly not my hero. "Not Trump" =/= My Hero.

That's it? "Nope?"

I just gave you the case citation. "Nope" is not considered an argument. A contrary case citation would be an argument. Get to work ...

Nah, I'll continue to go with the numbers that say even by chance if you contract covid there is over a 99% recoverable rate. Not to mention all the Dr reports that dont support the shot. I'm good, I'll do me you do you!

[The Frankish Reich]

15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Fair enough, so if I get you correctly, Trump is the villain even though he administrated the invention of and production of the vaccine, but Biden gets a total pass when all he had to do is stick it in your arm?   OK.......

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm just working from your post.

NO! Trump is not the villain here. Trump got the vaccine! Trump exacerbated the problem in many ways, but I agree here: Trump was instrumental in making the vaccine available - Operation Warp Speed (remember, it wasn't the development of the vaccines; it was purchasing/stockpiling reserves of the promising vaccines even before they were approved for emergency use) was probably his single biggest success of his presidency. It's not my fault that his most ardent supporters seem to be the among the most reluctant to follow his lead. Nor is it my fault that he weirdly decided to run on "it's not a crisis" rather than "it is a crisis and I'm out in front dealing with it and trying to solve it."

 

Biden does not get a pass here. 

 

- The FDA needs to move quickly to fully approve at least Pfizer and Moderna 

- Once that happens, I would like to see the federal government go to the limits of its power to mandate vaccines, and state governments to go the rest of the way

 

 

[BillStime]

10 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

NO! Trump is not the villain here. Trump got the vaccine! Trump exacerbated the problem in many ways, but I agree here: Trump was instrumental in making the vaccine available - Operation Warp Speed (remember, it wasn't the development of the vaccines; it was purchasing/stockpiling reserves of the promising vaccines even before they were approved for emergency use) was probably his single biggest success of his presidency. It's not my fault that his most ardent supporters seem to be the among the most reluctant to follow his lead. Nor is it my fault that he weirdly decided to run on "it's not a crisis" rather than "it is a crisis and I'm out in front dealing with it and trying to solve it."

 

Biden does not get a pass here. 

 

- The FDA needs to move quickly to fully approve at least Pfizer and Moderna 

- Once that happens, I would like to see the federal government go to the limits of its power to mandate vaccines, and state governments to go the rest of the way

 

 

Pfizer had nothing to do w Warp Speed

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Enough already.

Guess what? It's constitutional, and it has been for a century:

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/07/20/federal-judge-upholds-indiana-universitys-covid-19-vaccine-requirement

 

The Indiana University case cites two early 20th century Supreme Court cases upholding vaccine mandates.

 

Vaccine relucatance - or worse, outright anti-vaxxer sentiment - is about to turn an acute, time-limited problem into a never-ending problem. If the percent vaccinated doesn't uptick considerably in the next couple months, look forward to online education, mask mandates, maxed-out emergency rooms, travel bans, all that fun stuff all over again.

 

We've heard you anti-vaxxers. Six months into mass vaccination and your irrational fears have been dispelled. For the obstinate "I won't get vaccinated just because they want us to" -- why they hell did Trump and Melania and family get vaccinated if it's some kind of radical lefty plot?

 

There's still time. Start with simple things: let private businesses require proof of vaccination status. It's their damn business, it's just a continuation of that old "We Reserve Right to Refuse Service to Anyone" sign that I grew up with. If that isn't working, proceed to the next step: vaccine mandates for various higher-risk activities like colleges, in-person high school attendance, air travel. If that isn't working, then go full-on vaccine mandate. 

 

When did we get to be a country of such whiners? It's there, it's free (at least to you, the recipient), it's working, it's the way out of this mess. Do. It. Now.

 

 

Frankish, while I disagree with some of what you wrote, I'm coming around to your way of thinking.  First, the disagreements:

 

1. Currently, the decision to vax or not vax is between an individual and his/her doctor. There is no "we" as in "we've heard from you"---those folks aren't talking to you.  They don't care what you think and frankly, you lack skin in the game simply because the decision is deeply personal.  Take care of you, and yours, and respect the rights of others.  That's what's really cool. 

 

2.  The vaccine reluctance group and anti-vaxxers are two different groups, and should be acknowledged as such.  

 

3.   'Six months in' and the declaration that fears are irrational and dispelled...yowza dude.  Six months is a pimple on the ass of time, a sneeze, a whisper in the wind.  Respectfully, you've been bamboozled if you think the vast majority of the hesitant and anti crowd is out there worried about a radical lefty plot.  Some, yes, but most are just trying to get through life and make sense of it all. 

 

4. "Start" with business owners?  Seriously?  If 50% of the customer base is vaxxed, the other 50% are not.  Why make the local sammich shop the bully on the block?   It simply ain't their job. The government sets the standard as near as I can tell, every business owner I have visited has made the correct decision for the business itself---wear a mask if you want, non-vaccinated folks should mask up, and onward we go. 

 

5.  I've not heard any whining at all from the vaccine reluctant crowd.  I've heard concerns about the necessity, concerns about long term effects, but mostly, those folks just want to be left alone.  Honor that request. 

 

Now, the common ground part.  

 

The simplest solution to the problem you (and some others here) are complaining about is Executive Action by Joe Biden.  He controls just about everything in Washington these days, the media is on his side, and he could provide clarity and cover to business owners to act as you have outlined. 

 

You correctly noted that Team Trump was vaccinated, so the sentiment that supporters of Trump re following his lead is just plain silly.  We know for certain that dem leadership sent mixed signals on the trustworthiness of the vaccine being developed, so a Biden decree resolves all that.  

 

It seems to me that Biden has really failed in leadership here.  The vax is either voluntary or it isn't, and Biden seems to lack the nuts to push this agenda forward.  Trump served up the vaccine on a platter, wtf did it get off the rails???  Why not just get to it? 

Edited July 20, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

NO! Trump is not the villain here. Trump got the vaccine! Trump exacerbated the problem in many ways, but I agree here: Trump was instrumental in making the vaccine available - Operation Warp Speed (remember, it wasn't the development of the vaccines; it was purchasing/stockpiling reserves of the promising vaccines even before they were approved for emergency use) was probably his single biggest success of his presidency. It's not my fault that his most ardent supporters seem to be the among the most reluctant to follow his lead. Nor is it my fault that he weirdly decided to run on "it's not a crisis" rather than "it is a crisis and I'm out in front dealing with it and trying to solve it."

 

Biden does not get a pass here. 

 

- The FDA needs to move quickly to fully approve at least Pfizer and Moderna 

- Once that happens, I would like to see the federal government go to the limits of its power to mandate vaccines, and state governments to go the rest of the way

 

 

Thanks for clarifying.  Again, you were the one who brought the past President into this, and yet he has literally NOTHING to do with the topic.  He is out of office and can't mandate anything.  Maybe he would if he was still there.  So....I guess we wait for Joe to appoint Kamala to take the lead on this one and see how long it takes her to tell us why she isn't doing anything.   Or, maybe she'll go another quest for the 'root causes'.

[BillStime]

31 minutes ago, Big Gun said:

Nah, I'll continue to go with the numbers that say even by chance if you contract covid there is over a 99% recoverable rate. Not to mention all the Dr reports that dont support the shot. I'm good, I'll do me you do you!