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Considering every DE that has ever been been acquired by McBeane also excels at blitzing from DT, I’m thinking we will be surprised at how many DTs actually make the 53. Wouldn’t be shocked if it’s just Oliver, Harry, and Star with Zimmer and 1 other on the PS.

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

1 tech DT is the only position they haven't signed a single new player at since last training camp.

 

They played last season with just one player who is considered a 1 tech............though Harrison Phillips had always been more of a high volume tackler than a traffic cone.

 

1-Tech DT was a problem last year for two reasons:

- Star Lotulelei unexpectedly opted out due to Covid

- Harrison Phillips struggled coming back from his ACL injury

 

Lotulelei is back this year.  And Phillips has gotten another offseason to recover.  So we are back to the 2019 rotation, which did pretty well.  Not to mention, the D-Line is already overcrowded (mostly at Edge, but many of those guys can kick inside).  You can only keep so many guys at each position group.

 

I'm just not thinking Beane will make a significant move at this position.

 

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1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

1-Tech DT was a problem last year for two reasons:

- Star Lotulelei unexpectedly opted out due to Covid

- Harrison Phillips struggled coming back from his ACL injury

 

Lotulelei is back this year.  And Phillips has gotten another offseason to recover.  So we are back to the 2019 rotation, which did pretty well.  Not to mention, the D-Line is already overcrowded (mostly at Edge, but many of those guys can kick inside).  You can only keep so many guys at each position group.

 

I'm just not thinking Beane will make a significant move at this position.

 

 

 

The moves they have made.......and haven't made..........seem to indicate that 1 tech DT was a bigger problem in the eyes of fans than to the organization.

 

They even cut Vincent Taylor at the end of camp and haven't added a single 1 tech since.

 

If they planned to feature rotating space eaters they'd treat it like they have so many other positions.........with veteran depth.

 

Instead they bring in guys like Hester..........after already adding penetrating interior players like Zimmer and Rousseau and Basham and Obada.

 

It's a passing league........it makes sense to feature more pass rushers.........the 3 teams with the best records in the NFL last year gave up 4.5-4.7 yards per carry.........it's not a run and stop the run league anymore..........and frankly,  it's not like they were good against the run with a healthy $10M 1 tech either.   

 

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5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The moves they have made.......and haven't made..........seem to indicate that 1 tech DT was a bigger problem in the eyes of fans than to the organization.

 

They even cut Vincent Taylor at the end of camp and haven't added a single 1 tech since.

 

If they planned to feature rotating space eaters they'd treat it like they have so many other positions.........with veteran depth.

 

Instead they bring in guys like Hester..........after already adding penetrating interior players like Zimmer and Rousseau and Basham and Obada.

 

It's a passing league........it makes sense to feature more pass rushers.........the 3 teams with the best records in the NFL last year gave up 4.5-4.7 yards per carry.........it's not a run and stop the run league anymore..........and frankly,  it's not like they were good against the run with a healthy $10M 1 tech either.   

 

Yea but they need someone to occupy space upfront so Edmunds can excel.😃

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5 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I’m starting to think McBeane doesn’t give a crap about a DT who just eats blocks. They’ll put 4 BAMFs out there and dare opposing OLs to double team someone. 

It does look that way.  I'm no DT expert, but seems like Star is the only true one-tech.  Even Philips seems more like a hybrid.  

 

It says McD isn't afraid to play with four guys who are quick and smart, even if they're undersized for the traditional role of a one tech.  We'll see as the summer goes on. 

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35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It does look that way.  I'm no DT expert, but seems like Star is the only true one-tech.  Even Philips seems more like a hybrid.  

 

It says McD isn't afraid to play with four guys who are quick and smart, even if they're undersized for the traditional role of a one tech.  We'll see as the summer goes on. 

Shaw, it makes no difference how big any of these guys are if they can't keep Offensive Linemen from getting to the second level and eating up Edmunds. 

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19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw, it makes no difference how big any of these guys are if they can't keep Offensive Linemen from getting to the second level and eating up Edmunds. 

Obvious run situations probably see AJ - Star - Ed - Jerry.

 

Star is probably just a situational DT, I imagine Phillips will typically line up next to Oliver 

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18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw, it makes no difference how big any of these guys are if they can't keep Offensive Linemen from getting to the second level and eating up Edmunds. 

Well, yeah, that's the way you and I have always understood the basics of defense against the run.   But I watched the Bills playing last season without a combination of guys who could offer that kind of protection to Edmunds, and I wondered at times whether McDermott has a different philosophy altogether.  And then I listen to Beane telling us that both Rousseau and Basham can play tackle, and I wonder again.

 

I wonder whether McDermott's view is that, first and foremost, he's going to play team defense that stops the big play.  That would mind that he doesn't mind giving up modest yards some of the time, if the trade-off is that he can shut down everything deep.  We know his philosophy is to get pass rush consistently out of his front four, and he sacrifices one quarter of his pass rush when he's playing true one-tech (unless he has essentially a Hall of Fame player at the position.  I wonder whether he isn't thinking that on a lot of downs he'd rather have have four guys, all of whom are regular threats to penetrate, guys who not only can get after the passer but also can come down the line of scrimmage to take down backs going the other way.   The videos show Basham and Rousseau making plays like that.  

 

I don't know any of this for sure.  It's all pure speculation, but I find it curious, as do many posters here, that Beane has done nothing significant to get anyone into camp beyond Star and Harry.  It's particularly curious given that Star is a question mark until he shows up and shows that he isn't and that Harry, although he had his moments last season, hasn't shown he's an answer.  It all makes me think that McDermott and Frazier are going in a different direction than traditional football theory would suggest.   That is, it may be that McDermott thinks that he knows some things that we don't.  

12 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Obvious run situations probably see AJ - Star - Ed - Jerry.

 

Star is probably just a situational DT, I imagine Phillips will typically line up next to Oliver 

I agree with that.   First downs and obvious run situations.   A situational player.  

 

But that still suggests that McDermott and Frazier are willing to sacrifice the bulk that a traditional one-tech guy would have, to take the risk that on second and third down teams will attack the relatively small and weak defensive front, and to gamble that quickness and scheming can make up for the fact that they don't have personnel on the field that can dominate the center of the line physically.  

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6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, yeah, that's the way you and I have always understood the basics of defense against the run.   But I watched the Bills playing last season without a combination of guys who could offer that kind of protection to Edmunds, and I wondered at times whether McDermott has a different philosophy altogether.  And then I listen to Beane telling us that both Rousseau and Basham can play tackle, and I wonder again.

 

I wonder whether McDermott's view is that, first and foremost, he's going to play team defense that stops the big play.  That would mind that he doesn't mind giving up modest yards some of the time, if the trade-off is that he can shut down everything deep.  We know his philosophy is to get pass rush consistently out of his front four, and he sacrifices one quarter of his pass rush when he's playing true one-tech (unless he has essentially a Hall of Fame player at the position.  I wonder whether he isn't thinking that on a lot of downs he'd rather have have four guys, all of whom are regular threats to penetrate, guys who not only can get after the passer but also can come down the line of scrimmage to take down backs going the other way.   The videos show Basham and Rousseau making plays like that.  

 

I don't know any of this for sure.  It's all pure speculation, but I find it curious, as do many posters here, that Beane has done nothing significant to get anyone into camp beyond Star and Harry.  It's particularly curious given that Star is a question mark until he shows up and shows that he isn't and that Harry, although he had his moments last season, hasn't shown he's an answer.  It all makes me think that McDermott and Frazier are going in a different direction than traditional football theory would suggest.   That is, it may be that McDermott thinks that he knows some things that we don't.  

I agree with that.   First downs and obvious run situations.   A situational player.  

 

But that still suggests that McDermott and Frazier are willing to sacrifice the bulk that a traditional one-tech guy would have, to take the risk that on second and third down teams will attack the relatively small and weak defensive front, and to gamble that quickness and scheming can make up for the fact that they don't have personnel on the field that can dominate the center of the line physically.  

I think we forget what kind of player Harrison Phillips was before his knee, which apparently required 2 surgeries. He’s definitely the best blend of size/power/athleticism. Harry is a guy I am excited to see this summer!

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6 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I’m starting to think McBeane doesn’t give a crap about a DT who just eats blocks. They’ll put 4 BAMFs out there and dare opposing OLs to double team someone. 
 

If Groot and Boogie look solid day 1 our DL might just be grossly improved. Let us hope for a healthy Harrison Phillips too, he was dang good before the double knee surgery. 

I agree. I see this as not only Star's last season but our use of 1T's will probably end after this season. McD will incorporate more of that Nascar front 4.

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7 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

Didn't we draft Harrison to play 1 tech? But you are right, too many 3s not enough 1s.

 

Correct, but he is a little light in the pants, as they say, for 1-Tech. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Harrison as a good dude, hard worker, great attitude, lots of community outreach, team player, but he doesn't have 1-Tech measurables. 

 

So, yeah: too many 3's and not enough 1's.

7 hours ago, Georgie said:

They have several guys to line up at the 1: Phillips,Bryant,Butler, and another new guy,Vandecose(?)

 

I think it was "Vanderdoes", and I think he also got released, but I may be wrong on that. Haven't checked the most current Bills official depth chart.

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2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, yeah, that's the way you and I have always understood the basics of defense against the run.   But I watched the Bills playing last season without a combination of guys who could offer that kind of protection to Edmunds, and I wondered at times whether McDermott has a different philosophy altogether.  And then I listen to Beane telling us that both Rousseau and Basham can play tackle, and I wonder again.

 

I wonder whether McDermott's view is that, first and foremost, he's going to play team defense that stops the big play.  That would mind that he doesn't mind giving up modest yards some of the time, if the trade-off is that he can shut down everything deep.  We know his philosophy is to get pass rush consistently out of his front four, and he sacrifices one quarter of his pass rush when he's playing true one-tech (unless he has essentially a Hall of Fame player at the position.  I wonder whether he isn't thinking that on a lot of downs he'd rather have have four guys, all of whom are regular threats to penetrate, guys who not only can get after the passer but also can come down the line of scrimmage to take down backs going the other way.   The videos show Basham and Rousseau making plays like that.  

 

I don't know any of this for sure.  It's all pure speculation, but I find it curious, as do many posters here, that Beane has done nothing significant to get anyone into camp beyond Star and Harry.  It's particularly curious given that Star is a question mark until he shows up and shows that he isn't and that Harry, although he had his moments last season, hasn't shown he's an answer.  It all makes me think that McDermott and Frazier are going in a different direction than traditional football theory would suggest.   That is, it may be that McDermott thinks that he knows some things that we don't.  

 

Shaw, that's certainly one way of looking at it but I have a slightly different take. I believe Beane thinks he has a better chance of keeping O Linemen off of Edmunds with more athletic DT's as opposed to the traditional big 'tub of goo' or 'space eater' many were looking for.  The point still stands: if you let O Linemen get to the second level, we're toast! Edmunds has proven that he is not a traditional hole filler against the run. His body type just isn't. He's a slasher, who does best when tackling from an angle, or from behind (preferably the former). 

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46 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw, that's certainly one way of looking at it but I have a slightly different take. I believe Beane thinks he has a better chance of keeping O Linemen off of Edmunds with more athletic DT's as opposed to the traditional big 'tub of goo' or 'space eater' many were looking for.  The point still stands: if you let O Linemen get to the second level, we're toast! Edmunds has proven that he is not a traditional hole filler against the run. His body type just isn't. He's a slasher, who does best when tackling from an angle, or from behind (preferably the former). 

Well, I'm a regular defender of Edmunds here, but I'm not going to defend him in the run game.  I think what you say is incorrect in a sense.  If you let the o linemen get to the second level, EVERY run defense is toast.   EVERY middle linebacker becomes unproductive in the run game when the o linemen get to him.  The problem with Edmunds is that he isn't very effective when the d line protects him.   He just doesn't fill holes effectively.   Either he's late, takes angles that don't work (although he's improved there), and he doesn't hit the ball carrier with authority.   

 

I guess I agree, however, that McDermott seems to think he can occupy the o linemen in the run game with the athletic DTs.  I mentioned, for example, that I think McDermott is counting on the ability of these guys to pursue, down the line and behind the line.   I think he's also planning on being creative on stunts and other games he can play with athletic linemen, including dropping one or two into short zones and blitzing linebackers.   

 

We're both saying that McD apparently is planning on playing something of a non-traditional game on the D line.

 

Also, someone gave Philips' history, and suggested that we are ignoring Philips.   I think he may be right.  I think of Philips like I think of Ford - yes, he has some potential, but I'm not going to count on him until he contributes consistently, and I haven't seen that.   However, it's correct that Philips needed last year to recover, and this year he's going to be healthy and have the knowledge of a third-year guy.  It's quite possible that McDermott knows a lot more about how much real progress Philips has made than we do, and that could be a plausible explanation as to why the Bills haven't been actively pursuing a DT.   

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